Controversial opinions

[CrimsonRyu]

... Should I read this then as "Lillie called out her mother for being possesed by Nihillego?".

She wasn't simply possesed by it, Nihelego intensified her pre existing obsession/desire. If she never had that obsession, she wouldn't have throwed a temper tantrum in the Ultra wormhole.

 

[LazySpy]

She wasn't simply possesed by it, Nihelego intensified her pre existing obsession/desire. If she never had that obsession, she wouldn't have throwed a temper tantrum in the Ultra wormhole.

But Lillie does acknowledge it that her desire normally was weaker and that Lusamine neglected her because of the job, not her desire.

... Riiiiight?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Not to mention that being upset for evolving Clefairy felt like nitpicking on Lillie's part. Isn’t it the same girl who respected Snowy's decision to not evolve, so why was she angry when there were no signs that Clefairy had been forcefully evolved?

It’s a major peeve of mine with the anime. Many stone evolutions are shown as the greatest sin you can do to a Pokemon (specially Pikachu > Raichu has a particularly sad portrayal).

I don’t think Anime-Lusamine deserved being shouted at to that extent by her children. She was genuinely trying to make their lives better, and that includes working for Aether. Its evident by the way she treats Lillie that she did not want to neglect her children, but she has to work to give them a nice life.

 

[Acrobatic Crobat]

It’s a major peeve of mine with the anime. Many stone evolutions are shown as the greatest sin you can do to a Pokemon (specially Pikachu > Raichu has a particularly sad portrayal).

...Excuse me? When was any stone evolution portrayed as wrong or evil in any way?
No. Sorry, but I disagree. About the closest thing there ever was in anime to "portraying stone evolution as sin" is everyone agreeing that Ash evolving Pikachu would be a dick move - but that has nothing to do with the evolution method itself and is treated as this simply because Pika doesn't want to evolve. At all.

 

[CrimsonRyu]

Not to mention that being upset for evolving Clefairy felt like nitpicking on Lillie's part. Isn’t it the same girl who respected Snowy's decision to not evolve, so why was she angry when there were no signs that Clefairy hadn’t been forcefully evolved?

It’s a major peeve of mine with the anime. Many stone evolutions are shown as the greatest sin you can do to a Pokemon (specially Pikachu > Raichu has a particularly sad portrayal).

Lillie's point has nothing to do with evolution, her point is that Lusamine was inconsiderate to her feelings.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

...Excuse me? When was any stone evolution portrayed as wrong or evil in any way?
No. Sorry, but I disagree. About the closest thing there ever was in anime to "portraying stone evolution as sin" is everyone agreeing that Ash evolving Pikachu would be a dick move - but that has nothing to do with the evolution method itself and is treated as this simply because Pika doesn't want to evolve. At all.

I guess I ended up making that sound a bit stronger than I should have, point taken. I’ve just been tired of Raichu being depicted as an egotistical Pokémon so people root for Pikachu. That’s changing these days though, with Tierno's Raichu.
The Lt. Surge episode and Pika and Goliath ended up being my least favourite episodes when I liked Lt. Surge and was glad that my favourite Pokemon was his signature.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I don’t think Anime-Lusamine deserved being shouted at to that extent by her children. She was genuinely trying to make their lives better, and that includes working for Aether. Its evident by the way she treats Lillie that she did not want to neglect her children, but she has to work to give them a nice life.

And yet, she did nothing to help her daughter solve her "afraid of touching Pokémon" issue, or find out what had caused it. Also, she showed her caring of her daughter by acting overly affectionate to Lillie and treating her like a much younger child. Even a recent episode has her playfully do this and say "why do children have to grow up" when Lillie pushes her overly affectionate hug away.

The Lt. Surge episode and Pika and Goliath ended up being my least favourite episodes when I liked Lt. Surge and was glad that my favourite Pokemon was his signature.

Oh, hey! Raichu is my favorite Pokémon too!

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Lillie's point has nothing to do with evolution, her point is that Lusamine was inconsiderate to her feelings.

It still feels very nit-picky of Lillie to me since Clefairy wasn’t Lillie's Pokemon, and who knows Clefairy might’ve wanted to evolve, it’s Evolution was somehow essential to a research, or Clefairy just found a moonstone and evolved before Lusamine could do anything about it?

Clefairy was perfectly fine about evolution, so Lillie should’ve accepted that imo.

 

[LazySpy]

I don’t think Anime-Lusamine deserved being shouted at to that extent by her children. She was genuinely trying to make their lives better, and that includes working for Aether. Its evident by the way she treats Lillie that she did not want to neglect her children, but she has to work to give them a nice life.

I agree with this part.

Trust me, life experience speaking, I know a bit about that, and the work my parents have isn't even 5% as difficult and requireing as that of Lusamine's.

And yet, she did nothing to help her daughter solve her "afraid of touching Pokémon" issue, or find out what had caused it. Also, she showed her caring of her daughter by acting overly affectionate to Lillie and treating her like a much younger child. Even a recent episode has her playfully do this and say "why do children have to grow up" when Lillie pushes her overly affectionate hug away.

The first part is quite a fair point...

But the second? Of course parents sometimes treat their children that way, that quite normall.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

The first part is quite a fair point...

But the second? Of course parents sometimes treat their children that way, that quite normall.

Thank you, Lazy. That's honestly a fair point. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Also, she showed her caring of her daughter by acting overly affectionate to Lillie and treating her like a much younger child. Even a recent episode has her playfully do this and say "why do children have to grow up" when Lillie pushes her overly affectionate hug away.

I'll admit she should’ve prioritised Lillie's fear, point taken.

Have you considered that it might be her attempt to compensate for the time she spent 'neglecting' Lillie? She’s obviously not a perfect mother. No person is perfect. She's juggling her family, work, distraught over her husband's death but hides it, and is investigating the thing he died doing.

And you answered your own question. She did it playfully. It’s not as if she’s injecting Lillie with something so she doesn’t grow up. She just tried to show her love to them and spend the time she missed with them.

And I still don’t think she deserved that scolding from her own daughter over it.

 

[Pulsaro23]

It still feels very nit-picky of Lillie to me since Clefairy wasn’t Lillie's Pokemon, and who knows Clefairy might’ve wanted to evolve, it’s Evolution was somehow essential to a research, or Clefairy just found a moonstone and evolved before Lusamine could do anything about it?

Clefairy was perfectly fine about evolution, so Lillie should’ve accepted that imo.

Not to mention that one of Lillie's arguments for not evolving Clefairy was that "Clefairy is objectively cuter" than Clefable, which is one of the most stupidest arguments I've heard someone make, since beauty is highly subjective.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Not to mention that one of Lillie's arguments for not evolving Clefairy was that "Clefairy is objectively cuter" than Clefable, which is one of the most stupidest arguments I've heard someone make, since beauty is highly subjective.

I can agree with that. Not to mention, as Lusamine said, Clefairy was, in the end, her Pokémon, so she had the perfect right to make the decision to evolve it. Plus, Clefairy clearly didn't object to the evolution.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Pokemon Sun and Moon rushed through its storylines. And those storylines had a lot of potential like Guzma and Lusamine. I sometimes have the feeling that the writers of Sun and Moon dont know messed up. I dont hate SM at all, much episodes are just forgetable. It is just a shame and the humor is all over the place and above the plot. I dont understand why it is so hard to give Ash six pokemon, over a course of 140 episodes. The only pokemon I really saw having a developmemt are Lycanrock and Terrocat. Rowlet is still Rowlet and the same for Pikachu. Meltan is special, but idk how to feel about it. Ash didnt really bond with it yet.

 

[ShonenPlus]

I know mine is not a popular one.
The anime would not suffer from moving away from being kiddy. I'm not say blood everywhere but actual drama in the series making it feel impactful and more action.

Pokemon Sun and Moon rushed through its storylines. And those storylines had a lot of potential like Guzma and Lusamine. I sometimes have the feeling that the writers of Sun and Moon dont know messed up. I dont hate SM at all, much episodes are just forgetable. It is just a shame and the humor is all over the place and above the plot. I dont understand why it is so hard to give Ash six pokemon, over a course of 140 episodes. The only pokemon I really saw having a developmemt are Lycanrock and Terrocat. Rowlet is still Rowlet and the same for Pikachu. Meltan is special, but idk how to feel about it. Ash didnt really bond with it yet.

This! It seems SM cares more about slap stick and ugly faces over actual plot and when they do plot it is a mess.
Minus Ash leaving Goodra and the outcome of the league I feel XY had one of the best writings alongside DP. BW was not the best but at least they had a plan and went with it. SM seems like a man driving with his family and is refusing to stop for directions due to toxic masculinity even if he passed the same Mickey D for the 3rd time resulting in them turning a 4 hour trip into a 9 hour one.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

BW was not the best but at least they had a plan and went with it.

More like "they had a plan, but an unpredictable tragedy forced them to abandon it".

 

[ShonenPlus]

More like "they had a plan, but an unpredictable tragedy forced them to abandon it".

How much did that hurt them I wonder. I know episodes are planned in advanced so I'm curious what the OG plan was for BW.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

How much did that hurt them I wonder. I know episodes are planned in advanced so I'm curious what the OG plan was for BW.

We'll probably never know, except that Team Plasma was obviously supposed to be introduced much earlier, and Ash was supposed to re-encounter Looker and Giovanni much earlier. I honestly think the series could've been much better if those two episodes had remained canon.

 

[ShonenPlus]

We'll probably never know, except that Team Plasma was obviously supposed to be introduced much earlier, and Ash was supposed to re-encounter Looker and Giovanni much earlier. I honestly think the series could've been much better if those two episodes had remained canon.

I love how people still think were getting them in the future. I remember the trailer looking amazing and I'd love to have got them but at this point it would seem so out of place. Hoping nothing happens in the future to cancel episodes again

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I love how people still think were getting them in the future. I remember the trailer looking amazing and I'd love to have got them but at this point it would seem so out of place. Hoping nothing happens in the future to cancel episodes again

I agree. Seeing them would only show us what we missed and can never truly get back. These episodes are now officially out of canon, and that can't be helped.