Controversial opinions

[Hidden Mew]

I still feel like I'm one of the few people who don't think that the kiss is such a huge roadblock for Serena to comeback. Ignoring it would probably get fans of the ship upset, but since when have the writers cared that much about fan backlash to the point where that would be the main issue preventing a character from returning? Ash being clueless about Serena's feelings, if not just forgetting about the kiss completely, would be pretty fitting for his personality too. Even though I'm sure that they'd want have more ship teasing moments for Ash and Serena, there's still more that they could do with her beyond that.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

With the talks about Serena and her (possible) return, I want to say something: The kiss was an horrible choice.

I hate it, not because I don't like Ash x Serena, but because the writers wrote themselves into a corner by making it happen.

If they ignore it, or even go as far as like, idk, retconning the kiss out of existence (which, btw, I really don't think will happen buuuut is not impossible, let's be real), it's gonna rain hellfire. There's a very sizable, loud part of the fandom who will scream until the end of the times if they do.

But at the same time, they just can't do anything about it because that's not what Pokémon is about, and never was, and most likely than not won't ever be. It's not gonna go anywhere. Ash and Serena are not gonna date.

And this is yet another controversial opinion I have: I don't hate it, I swear, but Amourship was fated to fail imo.

Regardless of what they do with Serena it will be a shitstorm. And I’m one of those people who wants Amourshipping to happen and it was never destined to fail at the time because I thought Pokemon was turning a corner and going to age Ash and have him marry Serena... but that didn’t happen

 

[Hidden Mew]

Regardless of what they do with Serena it will be a shitstorm. And I’m one of those people who wants Amourshipping to happen and it was never destined to fail at the time because I thought Pokemon was turning a corner and going to age Ash and have him marry Serena... but that didn’t happen

I'm genuinely curious why you thought that Pokemon was going to have Ash age and marry Serena. I understand liking the pairing and wanting something like that to happen, but nothing about XY really made me think that it was building up to a huge timeskip with Ash and Serena married. Granted, I do remember a few people back in the day believing that Ash was to win the Kalos League and ride off into the sunset with Serena as his girlfriend too, but that also sounded pretty ridiculous to me back then.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I still find it upsetting that people dumb down Serena's character into nothing more than that stupid kiss and her crush on Ash. Absolutely nothing relating to her crush should be preventing her character from returning. There is a clear and obvious path for Serena to return in Journeys, but for some reason, it's always shot down because the kiss, for some reason, seems to be an impediment in her return. Journeys has made the promise of past companion returns and now we've gotten confirmation that Bonnie and Clemont are making a return. The only Eevee evolution that Chloe and her Eevee have yet to meet is Sylveon(and I think Leafeon as well, correct me if I'm wrong).

Serena not only has a Sylveon, but her entire story revolved around her figuring out what she wanted to do with her life. The main difference between her and Chloe is the Chloe has not even the slightest clue as to what she wants or is interested in, while Serena got into performing because it was surrounded by something that suited her interests(baking, performing, making things stylish, etc.). It would not only be interesting to draw the parallels between both girls(because I'm sure there are much, much more interesting dynamic than the one I mentioned), but their pokemon as well. Sylveon and Eevee have completely different personalities: it would be nice for Pokemon to emphasize how pokemon and humans work together as partners and as equals to help provide additional development for Eevee.

All her crush ever did for her character was give her an excuse to leave her house and go on her whole character journey in the first place. Hell, you could take out the crush aspect, say she only wanted to follow Ash because he was an old childhood friend, and nothing in the story would change. People bring up how that kiss was a re-affirmation of her newly gained confidence over the course of the saga, but it was really nothing more than a re-affirmation. It was also there to provide some semblance of closure to that minor quirk, but that's it.

Also, if Mimey can become Ash's pokemon just because the writers say so, then they can briefly gloss over the kiss to focus on more important things, like what Serena has been up to, how her team has been doing, how her old relationships with people like Palermo have influenced her even now, and how she will influence Chloe.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

The only Eevee evolution that Chloe and her Eevee have yet to meet is Sylveon(and I think Leafeon as well, correct me if I'm wrong).

Leafeon has already showed up under Erika's ownership. It's just really easy to overlook because that happened in the same episode that had Pinsir and Heracross's romance, which was both the main focus and a lot more compelling than Chloe and Eevee meeting Leafeon.

 

[BlueEyesBlackDragon]

I still find it upsetting that people dumb down Serena's character into nothing more than that stupid kiss and her crush on Ash. Absolutely nothing relating to her crush should be preventing her character from returning. There is a clear and obvious path for Serena to return in Journeys, but for some reason, it's always shot down because the kiss, for some reason, seems to be an impediment in her return. Journeys has made the promise of past companion returns and now we've gotten confirmation that Bonnie and Clemont are making a return. The only Eevee evolution that Chloe and her Eevee have yet to meet is Sylveon(and I think Leafeon as well, correct me if I'm wrong).

Serena not only has a Sylveon, but her entire story revolved around her figuring out what she wanted to do with her life. The main difference between her and Chloe is the Chloe has not even the slightest clue as to what she wants or is interested in, while Serena got into performing because it was surrounded by something that suited her interests(baking, performing, making things stylish, etc.). It would not only be interesting to draw the parallels between both girls(because I'm sure there are much, much more interesting dynamic than the one I mentioned), but their pokemon as well. Sylveon and Eevee have completely different personalities: it would be nice for Pokemon to emphasize how pokemon and humans work together as partners and as equals to help provide additional development for Eevee.

All her crush ever did for her character was give her an excuse to leave her house and go on her whole character journey in the first place. Hell, you could take out the crush aspect, say she only wanted to follow Ash because he was an old childhood friend, and nothing in the story would change. People bring up how that kiss was a re-affirmation of her newly gained confidence over the course of the saga, but it was really nothing more than a re-affirmation. It was also there to provide some semblance of closure to that minor quirk, but that's it.

Also, if Mimey can become Ash's pokemon just because the writers say so, then they can briefly gloss over the kiss to focus on more important things, like what Serena has been up to, how her team has been doing, how her old relationships with people like Palermo have influenced her even now, and how she will influence Chloe.

It’s not dumbing her down as much as it is accepting her for what she is : a love interest. Her primary role in the story is to give Ash someone to settle down with. The problem is that her dream can’t be realized unless Ash grows up and attains his own (which sounds impossible for now).

Obviously there’s more to her character than shipping and she needs development in that field as well BUT the ship equally important. An ideal cameo would be one that does justice on both fronts.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

It’s not dumbing her down as much as it is accepting her for what she is : a love interest. Her primary role in the story is to give Ash someone to settle down with.

From where in her story and character arc in XY do you get that impression?

Let me put it this way. A good way to tell how important something is in the overall narrative of the story is to ask: "what would happen if x were to disappear or simply did not exist at all?" In this case, that would be her crush. Would the narrative change? Would her relationship with her Pokemon change? No, because she formed each of those individually. Would her goal change? No, because the whole point of her character was finding her path in the first place. Would her character traits change? No, because having a crush on someone is not a personality or character trait: it's a perfectly normal thing for a girl of her age. The only thing I see changing in XY's narrative is her reasons for leaving, but even then, you could switch "crush" with "childhood friend" and it'd hardly be noticeable.

I'd be willing to treat her crush more importantly if people weren't trying to say it were as important or even equal to the other parts of her character. But not many people do, unfortunately, which just mitigates its importance in my eyes. What the heck was the whole point of her arc, then?

Not to mention, the sheer idea of girls who have a crush on a guy only being relegated to "love interest" and having the role of being someone for the male in the story to settle down with is inherently sexist and needs to be a changed mentality. It's not fair, in my opinion, yet Pokemon isn't the first instance of this. How many times are female characters immediately going to be ruled off as "love interests" that serve no other purpose in the story simply because they have a crush on the protagonist?

 

[HiroHunter]

Well I just see the whole crush on Ash thing as being a part of Serena's character one the only part hell it isn't the main part but it is a part of her character.

 

[Unireon]

What if she has already moved on from those feelings?

 

[R1ke]

I'm sure they can work around it anyway, they don't dwell much on past events during character returns. They'll probs just allude to it with a line or two then move on

 

[HiroHunter]

What if she has already moved on from those feelings?

I mean there is a chance of that but there is also the chance that she still holding on to those feelings.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

What if she has already moved on from those feelings?

Then that would contradict the last episode of XY
She literally addressed him with the noun that women in Japanese call their husbands and there would be a giant shit show if that happened

 

[BlueEyesBlackDragon]

From where in her story and character arc in XY do you get that impression?

Let me put it this way. A good way to tell how important something is in the overall narrative of the story is to ask: "what would happen if x were to disappear or simply did not exist at all?" In this case, that would be her crush. Would the narrative change? Would her relationship with her Pokemon change? No, because she formed each of those individually. Would her goal change? No, because the whole point of her character was finding her path in the first place. Would her character traits change? No, because having a crush on someone is not a personality or character trait: it's a perfectly normal thing for a girl of her age. The only thing I see changing in XY's narrative is her reasons for leaving, but even then, you could switch "crush" with "childhood friend" and it'd hardly be noticeable.

I'd be willing to treat her crush more importantly if people weren't trying to say it were as important or even equal to the other parts of her character. But not many people do, unfortunately, which just mitigates its importance in my eyes. What the heck was the whole point of her arc, then?

Not to mention, the sheer idea of girls who have a crush on a guy only being relegated to "love interest" and having the role of being someone for the male in the story to settle down with is inherently sexist and needs to be a changed mentality. It's not fair, in my opinion, yet Pokemon isn't the first instance of this. How many times are female characters immediately going to be ruled off as "love interests" that serve no other purpose in the story simply because they have a crush on the protagonist?

Didn’t serena say that ash was her goal? That pretty much confirms her status of a love interest.

Having a crush on someone is a personality trait though. It’s what makes her distinct from misty, may, dawn and iris. She isn’t just another companion ; she is his main squeeze.

Once again i’m all about character development but her crush isn’t something that can be ignored because she wants to be worthy of him, that is an integral part of her character.

It might sound sexist but it is what it is. Girls are usually just eye-candy in shows predominantly aimed at young boys. A lot of anime do this.

 

[Hidden Mew]

It’s not dumbing her down as much as it is accepting her for what she is : a love interest. Her primary role in the story is to give Ash someone to settle down with. The problem is that her dream can’t be realized unless Ash grows up and attains his own (which sounds impossible for now).

Obviously there’s more to her character than shipping and she needs development in that field as well BUT the ship equally important. An ideal cameo would be one that does justice on both fronts.

This is such a strange take since nothing about Serena XY gave off the impression that her primary role was to give Ash a future wife. Not to mention it wouldn't really make sense within the context of the anime. They had already made it clear that Ash was never going to age the moment they had BW confirmed that he was still ten. Since they obviously aren't going to age Ash, why would Serena's main role in the story to be Ash's future wife when neither of them can age? It just doesn't make sense.

Honestly, Serena's crush on Ash was more like a gimmick than anything else to me even when I was first watching XY. I really think that fans make a bigger deal about her crush than the show normally did. The series obviously brought up the crush, but not nearly as much as fans tend to do. Nothing about how Serena was written made me think that she was just going to be Ash's trophy girlfriend/wife, but that's the impression too many fans get from her and that's honestly kind of sad.

 

[BlueEyesBlackDragon]

This is such a strange take since nothing about Serena XY gave off the impression that her primary role was to give Ash a future wife. Not to mention it wouldn't really make sense within the context of the anime. They had already made it clear that Ash was never going to age the moment they had BW confirmed that he was still ten. Since they obviously aren't going to age Ash, why would Serena's main role in the story to be Ash's future wife when neither of them can age? It just doesn't make sense.

Honestly, Serena's crush on Ash was more like a gimmick than anything else to me even when I was first watching XY. I really think that fans make a bigger deal about her crush than the show normally did. The series obviously brought up the crush, but not nearly as much as fans tend to do. Nothing about how Serena was written made me think that she was just going to be Ash's trophy girlfriend/wife, but that's the impression too many fans get from her and that's honestly kind of sad.

I don’t know about you but serena gave me hinata/chi-chi/mikasa/kanao vibes. Y’know the girls crushing on naruto, goku, eren and tanjiro respectively. From what i’ve noticed it’s a common trend among anime to make the protagonist oblivious to women only to end up with the girl who had a thing for him.

I guess the obvious difference here is that Ash will never grow up. But that doesn’t change serena’s role though, she is one of those girls.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I don’t know about you but serena gave me hinata/chi-chi/mikasa/kanao vibes. Y’know the girls crushing on naruto, goku, eren and tanjiro respectively. From what i’ve noticed it’s a common trend among anime to make the protagonist oblivious to women only to end up with the girl who had a thing for him.

I guess the obvious difference here is that Ash will never grow up. But that doesn’t change serena’s role though, she is one of those girls.

Admittedly, I have more of a casual knowledge of some of those series at best, but I think that this comparison falls a bit flat. The fact that the characters you mentioned were allowed to age and in some cases have children is a pretty huge difference. It's hard to really say that Serena is one of those girls when she isn't designed to be the future mother of Ash's children. Getting vibes from a character is one thing, but nothing about Serena's role or crush was setting something up like a huge love declaration or a marriage.

 

[BlueEyesBlackDragon]

Admittedly, I have more of a casual knowledge of some of those series at best, but I think that this comparison falls a bit flat. The fact that the characters you mentioned were allowed to age and in some cases have children is a pretty huge difference. It's hard to really say that Serena is one of those girls when she isn't designed to be the future mother of Ash's children. Getting vibes from a character is one thing, but nothing about Serena's role or crush was setting something up like a huge love declaration or a marriage.

It’s simply an educated guess based on a popular trend. Naruto ignored hinata for like 700 chapters, goku thought marriage was food, Eren was busy killing titans than thinking about girls. All of the characters i mentioned were oblivious to their love interests only to reciprocate their feelings at the end of the story. Ash follows the same archetype with Serena being his secret-admirer. Though i won’t deny that chances of Ash growing up are pretty much zero and SatoSere will forever be stuck in a limbo due to the nature of this anime. But it’s the ship that came closest to canon and naturally i’m expecting them to do more with it. I just want them to break the status quo and give Ash a closure.

 

[Hidden Mew]

It’s simply an educated guess based on a popular trend. Naruto ignored hinata for like 700 chapters, goku thought marriage was food, Eren was busy killing titans than thinking about girls. All of the characters i mentioned were oblivious to their love interests only to reciprocate their feelings at the end of the story. Ash follows the same archetype with Serena being his secret-admirer. Though i won’t deny that chances of Ash growing up are pretty much zero and SatoSere will forever be stuck in a limbo due to the nature of this anime. But it’s the ship that came closest to canon and naturally i’m expecting them to do more with it. I just want them to break the status quo and give Ash a closure.

I'm familiar with the trend, but I think that there are a few key differences between Pokemon and the other series. Besides having characters that were allowed to age, those stories also had more of a clear beginning, middle and end than Pokemon does. Even with Ash and Serena fitting this setup, it doesn't really work with the differences in mind.

I can understand wanting them to do more with the pairing and wanting closure for Ash, even though I don't think he needs a girlfriend or wife for that, but I think expecting them to do more with the pairing is probably going to lead to more disappointment.

 

[HiroHunter]

Really my take on this they shouldn't had Serena kiss Ash if they weren't going to do anything with it. That whole scene was just shipbaiting.

 

[BlueEyesBlackDragon]

I'm familiar with the trend, but I think that there are a few key differences between Pokemon and the other series. Besides having characters that were allowed to age, those stories also had more of a clear beginning, middle and end than Pokemon does. Even with Ash and Serena fitting this setup, it doesn't really work with the differences in mind.

I can understand wanting them to do more with the pairing and wanting closure for Ash, even though I don't think he needs a girlfriend or wife for that, but I think expecting them to do more with the pairing is probably going to lead to more disappointment.

That’s a fair argument. Ash and Serena can’t happen because Ash is not allowed to grow up, but if he did, you can predict what comes next because a lot of anime follow the same patterns and tropes (pokemon being no exception)

Is it wrong to want a closure for Ash? He’s been at it for 25 years now. Dude needs a rest.