Controversial opinions

[Handy Man]

In my experience dealing with shippers, people care more for upholding the idea of the perfect couple and then superimposing the characters onto it. That’s not writing a story; that’s building a shrine. You can see how many fanfics go “Ash will basically be invincible and he’s 14/16/18/22”

The other reason I’ve seen people obsessively ship is the false sense of finality. People believe once a ship is solidified, it can never be undone. The characters and timeline can only move forward. I defer anyone who believes this to read Spider-Man: One More Day.

Honestly, this post confuses me. Are you saying that most shippers see ships as solely wish-fulfillment and what they want to see, over expanding on what the show actually provides on the characters to its viewers? In other words, are you saying that shippers ignore the character’s personalities and identities and rewrite them in order to fit their narrative, over respecting the source material and their original character development? I never really interact with other shippers at all, so I’m just curious. Personally, I like Amourshipping for my self-improvement, and the fact that I can relate to both Ash and Serena. There’s nothing wrong with people spending time on creating fanfiction and fanart if it makes them happy. However, I would rather spend my time improving aspects of myself to make a relationship work in real life, over obsessing over fictional characters having a perfect relationship. To me, it feels like your post generalizes all shippers in this way. It ignores other perspectives of people like me, as I personally use shipping as a motivator for self-improvement outside of the show. I’m not trying to argue with you exactly, I just want to understand what you mean better.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

In other words, are you saying that shippers ignore the character’s personalities and identities and rewrite them in order to fit their narrative, over respecting the source material and their original character development?

I mean, there’s literally a self-identified shipper saying that 1:1.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

To me, it feels like your post generalizes all shippers in this way. It ignores other perspectives of people like me, as I personally use shipping as a motivator for self-improvement outside of the show. I’m not trying to argue with you exactly, I just want to understand what you mean better.

Just like you haven’t interacted with a conventional shipper before, they’re just commenting on the types of shippers they’ve seen.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Satoshi should have use the dream team* against Shirona.

* Pikachu, Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape, Greninja, Lucario

 

[Handy Man]

I mean, there’s literally a self-identified shipper saying that 1:1.

Just like you haven’t interacted with a conventional shipper before, they’re just commenting on the types of shippers they’ve seen.

I see. I feel like my reasons for supporting Amourshipping are pretty unique overall. I have never seen anyone else on these forums use it as a self-improvement motivator over anything else. I never paid attention to shipping until JN105, and I don’t seek out other shippers in general.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I feel Infernape definitely deserved a spot in the match vs Cynthia. The episode itself seems to make a good case for it. I feel they could've taken a "Reserve of the Day" approach with the Master Class and some of the later major PWT matches that would add a reserve to the lineup, and the rest consisting of JN members. It’s sad that these Pokémon were reduced to cheerleaders for Ash's final go when there were opponents the reserves themselves would actually love to battle, and they actually bothered to animate the reserved wanting to battle but stuck watching from a screen thousands of miles away. I won’t lie, as someone who grew up with Sinnoh, Infernape using Oak for target practice looked really sad.

If they were going to go big on fanservice, I'd rather they go all in if this was planned to be Ash's conclusion. Have the reserves fight trainers from their region, bring in Incineroar and actually give it a battle if they were playing into the Alolan champion bit. As Ash's USP here was his unpredictability, make the unpredictability in the Pokémon he uses a point too.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

I actually think that's a different thing entirely; I once suggested on the writer's workshop fandom that "overpowered Ash" stories pop up fairly commonly out of frustration with how the canon series constantly sabotages him and resets his progress; the show has serious issues with Ash's buildup havingvery weak payoffs.
Back in the day I read tons of Dragon Ball fanfiction (and dipped into a number of other fandoms), and that was much rarer in them.

I think they’re two sides of the same coin. The idea that Ash whose journey is seen as an endless cycle of prop ups, failures, and anti-climaxes getting to be overpowered and getting to settle down with a girl gives people who do this a sense of finality. I see them less as separate issues and more as comorbidities.

Honestly, this post confuses me. Are you saying that most shippers see ships as solely wish-fulfillment and what they want to see, over expanding on what the show actually provides on the characters to its viewers? In other words, are you saying that shippers ignore the character’s personalities and identities and rewrite them in order to fit their narrative, over respecting the source material and their original character development? I never really interact with other shippers at all, so I’m just curious. Personally, I like Amourshipping for my self-improvement, and the fact that I can relate to both Ash and Serena. There’s nothing wrong with people spending time on creating fanfiction and fanart if it makes them happy. However, I would rather spend my time improving aspects of myself to make a relationship work in real life, over obsessing over fictional characters having a perfect relationship. To me, it feels like your post generalizes all shippers in this way. It ignores other perspectives of people like me, as I personally use shipping as a motivator for self-improvement outside of the show. I’m not trying to argue with you exactly, I just want to understand what you mean better.

There’s a saying from a fanfic writer way back in the day: a good shipping story sees how the couple brings out the best in each other; a shippping fanfic is one where the couple is there for the sake of having it.

Fanfics are not like real works where they are, for better or worse, scrutinized at every turn. Anyone can write them. They are the poof of Sturgeon’s Law, that 90% of everything is crap and the remaining 10% is to die for. I don’t dismiss the idea of good shipping stories, but you’ll need to waddle your way through bad ones.

 

[Handy Man]

There’s a saying from a fanfic writer way back in the day: a good shipping story sees how the couple brings out the best in each other; a shippping fanfic is one where the couple is there for the sake of having it.

Fanfics are not like real works where they are, for better or worse, scrutinized at every turn. Anyone can write them. They are the poof of Sturgeon’s Law, that 90% of everything is crap and the remaining 10% is to die for. I don’t dismiss the idea of good shipping stories, but you’ll need to waddle your way through bad ones.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you for elaborating.

 

[Antiyonder]

My controversial opinion is that Pokémon is a children’s cartoon. It’s unrealistic for people to expect the child protagonists to be mature 100% of the time. They’re just kids. That’s why I enjoy it when Ash and his friends aren’t angels 100% of the time. It’s realistic. Children will make mistakes. That’s what makes their characters good.

Agree and disagree at the same time. Let's say it's arguably a prime example of execution mattering as much as the idea.

Granted it's a cheat, but looking at two Spider-Man cartoons and their depiction of Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man has him making mistakes even to a jerkish degree, but not the exaggerated kind where likability is purely absent.

Ultimate, pretty much the opposite where the screw ups are too frequent at least until where it and other flaws were toned down in S3.


Probably a matter of talent. Like with a jerk adult character, some writers believe that you have to have a character being completely unlikable prior to character development before they grow into better people. Can work if you're doing a darker story, but otherwise, likability even at the start is needed to care about the character.

That and if not a certainly, possibly cause some write the kid characters as well characters and the ones who fumble have a "Damn these modern kids and their eyepads and wrap music".

That said, yeah I think Kanto Ash if that's what you're referring to works.

 

[Weddingbells]

Agree and disagree at the same time. Let's say it's arguably a prime example of execution mattering as much as the idea.

Granted it's a cheat, but looking at two Spider-Man cartoons and their depiction of Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man has him making mistakes even to a jerkish degree, but not the exaggerated kind where likability is purely absent.

Ultimate, pretty much the opposite where the screw ups are too frequent at least until where it and other flaws were toned down in S3.


Probably a matter of talent. Like with a jerk adult character, some writers believe that you have to have a character being completely unlikable prior to character development before they grow into better people. Can work if you're doing a darker story, but otherwise, likability even at the start is needed to care about the character.

That and if not a certainly, possibly cause some write the kid characters as well characters and the ones who fumble have a "Damn these modern kids and their eyepads and wrap music".

That said, yeah I think Kanto Ash if that's what you're referring to works.

Also no one is saying Ash can't be wrong or anything. But there is a thing as a consistent characterization. You don't just disregard that just because "they are kids lol". If Ash threw a tantrum and cried he wants his mom, would you be ok with that because "well he is a kid?"

The issue with Ash is that its been 25 years. The conflict they give him is something he has dealt with multiple times, so it comes off as ooc than any realistic characterization.

Also I feel for the most part Ash companions are portrayed pretty much as angels alot of the time. But that's a different Convo

 

[Antiyonder]

Also no one is saying Ash can't be wrong or anything. But there is a thing as a consistent characterization. You don't just disregard that just because "they are kids lol". If Ash threw a tantrum and cried he wants his mom, would you be ok with that because "well he is a kid?"

The issue with Ash is that its been 25 years. The conflict they give him is something he has dealt with multiple times, so it comes off as ooc than any realistic characterization.

Also I feel for the most part Ash companions are portrayed pretty much as angels alot of the time. But that's a different Convo

And really, when dealing with a fantasy series, I feel it disingenuous to play the realism card just to win an argument. It's like when a writer does so to justify a decision.

Cause if realism is one's preference 90 percent of the time, you have to double down on that stance even when said stance works against you.

 

[Weddingbells]

I still think the aether arc and especially the whole lusamine and Lillie conflict was done pretty poorly. Especially as the latter is basically the overwork parent trope where the child is 100% in the right etc. What's worse is we don't really see how their relationship changes after the whole big speech Lillie did with lusamine. Lusamine still does the "baby" talk with Lillie and embarrasses her other times

For the most part we only see her at the aether house giving exposition to the ultra guardians. She still doesn't live with Lillie. Lillie mentioned off hand she went shopping with her mom but that was off screen, and she did go to her play, but that's it really.

I felt the story was trying hard to get me on Lillie side, and they succeeded in some aspects (it was neglectful that lusamine never tried to investigate Lillie trauma) but overall lusamine I feel hasn't done enough to warrant that whole big speech. Especially as it comes off as Lillie blaming lusamine for being mind controlled

And Lillie PTSD being virtually erased due to seeing syvally makes the whole arc just fall apart.

 

[ii kanji]

Another post about some of Haruka's one-off contest rivals has reminded me... I actually really miss CotDs. I feel like this is controversial because in general the concept gets a lot of hate. I know there's a balance to be struck and no one wants Johto reborn but some of the CotDs we've seen are iconic, allowing the series to explore issues outside of those affecting the main/recurring cast, and I feel like more recent series really missed that.

 

[Jaye]

I'm not into CotDs, but a handful of recurring characters who are like CotDs would be a good compromise. I thought Journeys was going to do this for a while but then just... didn't.

 

[ii kanji]

I'm not into CotDs, but a handful of recurring characters who are like CotDs would be a good compromise. I thought Journeys was going to do this for a while but then just... didn't.

I thought SM did this quite well with characters like that old lady who used to feed Nyabby and that Dugtrio DJ guy. But equally if this is always the case the world ends up feeling quite small - it worked for Alola due to its innate nature, but wouldn’t have done for PM19 for example.

 

[BeautifulSylveon]

I don't like those "after story" things (for example, Alain talking to Ash after JN115). Couldn't they have shown them as episode scenes?

Also, I have a discomfort whenever I'm seeing Ash holding a trophy. I don't know why. Is it because of the art style?

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

I don't like those "after story" things (for example, Alain talking to Ash after JN115).

Wait, WHAT!? Such a thing exist?

 

[BeautifulSylveon]

The site talks about it on said episodes pages. Apparently, it's on social media or something like that.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Ah, found it. Just a little drawing.

 

[FelipePR]

Ah, found it. Just a little drawing.

Do you know what one is saying to the other in this 'little drawing'? Thanks in advance