Controversial opinions

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

She appeared "so much" recently because:

20the anniversary of anime
Let's GO Pikachu/Eevee promotion
End of the show/Other characters are returned

 

[FelipePR]

I have the impression that Alain's cameo was just to, more or less, satisfy the desired vendetta of some anime fans than to honor the character. In fact, one of the most risible reappearances ever witnessed.

 

[c la fet]

I don't like professor Ivy. And I don't find her pretty at all.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

DuArt's dub scores sucked in DP, much worse than the later 4Kids dub scores and even the late TAJ synth when they weren't used in random S9-10 eps: it's so incredibly bland, boring, and dry faux-violin/baroquey synth. At least the later 4Kids & TAJ cues have some energy and emotion in them, and generally passion in where they are placed in comparison- the problem was more with how often they were spammed/shoehorned into every scene, but examining them individually, that's my two cents.

DP's dub was worse than BF's dub for a multitude of characters in voice acting, even Ash who is the sole one to improve rather than deteriorate from the prior Series as it goes on of the recast roles-- starts off absolutely godawful and with the same croaky, extremely deep, throat-ripping voice for the first 1/4 of it as he had in the last several BF eps. ("Gettin' Twiggy With It" provides the single-worst performance I ever heard from Ash in the entire 25-year English dub run, I would even take Mastermind Sarah and OG Kayzie over this rendition or "Pokemon, I Choose You!" Veronica Ash).

The XY-JN dubs have many more issues plaguing them besides Ed Goldfarb/Akhil Gopal's music scores and placement: IMO, are on a constant descendance with each passing saga (JN's dub being handled worse than SM's dub, and SM's worse than XY's in turn). The only thing to be better than a prior season or saga in the English dub is the Ultimate Journeys dub opening vs. With You from Master Journeys, to me.

Rights issues are sometimes complicated even if it seems like they own everything, but likely not this case. I remember speculation on whether or not it could be an issue with TV broadcast vs. streaming (That 4 part Arceus on streaming used plenty of DP era music) but given how the past 11 episodes (and every once in a while for the past decade) used the old music with no issues, it seems to be creative choice only.

I don't believe it for a second, TPCI is a multi-billion dollar corporation: they're just cheap, and know the Anime is targeted for 5-12 year olds, so can generally get away with cutting corners and making more w/less expenditure via royalties with the dub score as was the case with 4Kids-- to whose credit, never replaced as much of the OST in the mainline Anime dub as TPCi did from 2014 onward at any point. It's to make profit Internationally via distribution, they can afford better & choose not to do so, if TPCI really wanted can easily afford it all IMO.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

Any unpopular opinions you have about the Series, or most fans tend not to gel with, but you do hold? If you disagree with me or have ones I don't hold, that's fine, this is just kind of a thread to see if anyone else feels similarly on some things.

-- While it is these days popular to prefer the 4Kids/4KMedia/Konami dub of Pokemon over the TPCi/SDI Media/Iyuno Group of the English dubs, particularly this began when TPCi ended up replacing more of the OST than 4Kids did in their tenure and returned to the censorship practices the former was infamous for as a company in general by SM in earnest (there was a sign this was returning in late XY though with the crucifixion scene), and I can say I've always been included in that group, even when it wasn't popular believe it or not...

However, one unpopular opinion I do have on here (thought it is popular on certain sites like Reddit or Twitter!), is that I believe the 4Kids dub had better script writing/dialogue than the TPCi dub in general, too.

While it is true that the TPCi dub is less prone to making game mechanical errors and deviating in terms of intent from the original than 4Kids, I've always found the way the characters speak/dialogue to be a lot more slang-prone, unnatural, and honestly, the dialogue is less amusing/funny than in the previous 4Kids dub as well.

Some examples of the awkward dialogue to me from the TPCi dub that are why I didn't really like JCC's writing from 2007 onward into 2023 before he's about to depart as a writer for Pokemon (Sarah I know likes to say she began in 2006, but 4Kids' dub ended in September 2006, she was only the VA for Ash in that year in the last 4 months with 2007 being the current cast's first full year in charge to clarify- Taylor was still Ash for most of 2006, 8 months), to give you an idea of what I'm referring to- I found some examples:

"I'm so psyched: I'm shakin' so hard, I think I'm gonna burst!" (BW, AUI Episode 1)
"It's amazin' that Science is so amazin'!" (Several XY Episodes)
"Observation! I'm an observer! I'm doin' it!" (DP170)
"I bet I could get me a Buneary if..." (DP004)
"And when we get it, we're gonna raise the roof!" (AG172)
"Whoa, she's holdin' a Pokeball." (DP093)
"Alright, Froakie, this is where we really need to step on the gas!" (XY Episode with Sanpei)
"That's a fire type, nice and fiery!" (BW001)
"He's Golurk's trainer and he likes pie!" (BW AUI Filler)
"Wow, Nathaniel reminds me of me!" ("Strategy Begins at Home!")
"I feel warm as toast!" (XY Episode "Coming Back Into the Cold!")
"Evolution is when a Pokemon starts to glow super bright and it's super cool, like BAM!" (Some XY Episode)
"You're not seein' things, we're talkin' strong!" (Some TAJ-dubbed DP episode)
"I got me the luck symbol! (Some TAJ-dubbed BF episode)
"At first, ya hated goin' inside your Pokeball." (AG189)
"Knock his block off!" (Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon)
"I'm not even sad one little bit!" (DP133)
"You're seein' one now, so hold on to your hat!" (DP003)
"Who do ya guys think you are, anyway?!" (AG176 & XY093)
"See, sometimes I can do the right thing!" (May, MoMP, Dogasu we didn't like it because it sounds sexually suggestive BTW and like May has no use on the team)
"Wow, you talk great!" (Max, BF)
"Why would our Pokeballs be on the blink?" (Brock, BF) & "My old stomping grounds!" (Various times in BF/DP dubbed from many people, not just Brock)
"Primo pokemon," "Primo perps," "Dig it, jack," "Dig it," "Word up," "Lugs," "Yahoos" (Meowth in general in the TPCi dub)
"And these two men are gonna do it, with or without a good woman at their sides!" (Brock, DP002, it's a dub added joke by JCC implying Ash/Brock are gay/homosexual when one is a 15 year old teenager and one is a 10 year old boy)
Various James/Jessie rhymes every other line, especially bad in DP and SM's dubs like "Tchotchkes free, for you and me," "Toxic twerp talk," "Please pass on the poison purée," "Pilfering us up a bunch of Primo pokemon toot sweet," etc.
"I've never seen Ash work it so hard!" (May, BF, extremely sexually suggestive and inappropriate for a little 10 year girl)
"I'll still wipe the dance floor with you!" (Harley, BF dub) & "Powdering your nose on the dance floor" + "May and her brood of boy toys" (WTF?) as well.
"Coochy coo" and "Wow wow wow" (Bonnie, XY dub)

-- I'm just going to leave that here to basically exemplify what I'm pointing at here. --

- I think XY and DP are pretty overrated Series (knives at me). Hear me out, before you get mad, in that both Series tend to only get so much love for how they handled Ash. Meanwhile, however, the supporting cast tends to suffer for this. Brock became a total shell of his former self in the saga, reduced to a much weaker team than prior, Dawn is pretty much just May 2.0 w/contests but with Ash's personality though is a better female protagonist to me than Serena. Serena, in general, was a terrible one at the start of XY but after the haircut got better, though you have to deal with her having a crush on Ash for a whole Season alone and a bit so it's very boring at times. And Team Rocket tended to be more stupid than usual in DP except for Jessie, as well as in general in XY.

- The Diamond and Pearl dub rap intro was the first truly bad dub opening in the English run, well before Ed Goldfarb ever showed up.

- I actually think the dub score for the first 10 years (EP001-DP052) was actually not that bad to listen to on its own, and there are a lot of pieces I think were decently composed, even if not on par with Miyazaki or Hayashi's works (particularly Dragonite Takes Flight, Spearow Attacks, Manny Corallo's Underwater which is Bruno's Theme in Puzzle League & Tears of Life).

What are some of your unpopular opinions about PokeAni?

 

[R.O.B.]

The dub of Origins was TRASH. Origins is kinda overrated as a whole but the dub I think gets more praise than deserved.

 

[Nicolas721]

Well, here's a few of mine, let's see if we can revive this thread.

• Misty is a great character. Some fans paint her as a generic angry girl but in reality she had a reason for behaving that way with her sisters being so careless, and she was more often supportive of Ash than she wasn't, and she also bounced off Brock very well. Also, comparing her development to later girls' is a bit unfair.
• Nicholai was a very fun CotD and I'd like to see it as a minor rival. If he had replaced Morrison, his reason to not fight Ash in the league would have made more sense as they would have interacted more throughout the series.
• The first half of Season 11 was DP's peak. Afterwards it became safer and more slow-paced, through it had good-to-great battles. While I didn't mind Barry, I'd have liked to see Paul more, as well as his process of becoming nicer and more respectful of others, which I feel is what the series really needs to feel complete.
• While it has nice characters, XY/XYZ has lots of below average fillers, and the "main story" isn't exeptional and hasn't aged well, making it hard to recommend. Also, due to the fillers, I wouldn't classify it as a "shonen" at all.
• SM's biggest flaw is its handling of Ash. He felt like a different character that did not care as much about battling and that was too childish. If the story was done with a new character I would have been certainly more invested in it.
• Lucario's story was terrible. His episodes were made of contrivances that did not develop him at all and were more about him looking cool and badass. Also, I'd rather Ash had no access to Mega evolutions than just only one.
• I like the idea behind the Rocket Gatcha and Goh's captures, as they helped showcase more Pokemon, through I agree the execution was terrible. Also, even if the new directors didn't like Goh's captures they should have kept them, it's embarassing how few Pokes he caught during the last year of JN.
• I don't like how Meowth's role has been significantly reduced in SM and JN. He went from being the boss to just another member of the trio, I miss his old self and how he ocasionally bonded with some of the protagonists' Pokemon.
• While I appreciate HZ's continuity, I hope it eventually has some episodic stories. I know it's early to complain but If they keep doing 2 or 3 parter semi-fillers it may cause slow pacing and a lack of focus for both Pokemon and characters over time.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

The dub of Origins was TRASH. Origins is kinda overrated as a whole but the dub I think gets more praise than deserved.

Change that to Generations, and you have my opinion personally. Kyle Hebert in particular, I feel slept through his performance as Eusine, he at least seemed to try remotely as Prof Oak (he's got nothing on Zagnit at all, though, not sure what Dogasu hears but I don't think all that highly of his or Katsuji Mori's there either- I don't hate them, just bland/"there").

 

[R.O.B.]

Change that to Generations, and you have my opinion personally. Kyle Hebert in particular, I feel slept through his performance as Eusine, he at least seemed to try remotely as Prof Oak (he's got nothing on Zagnit at all, though, not sure what Dogasu hears but I don't think all that highly of his or Katsuji Mori's there either- I don't hate them, just bland/"there").

Oh Generations was garbage too, but I'm not sure how popular that is. Most people seem to agree that Masters is poorly dubbed at least.

 

[HylianBelmont]

The dub of Origins was TRASH. Origins is kinda overrated as a whole but the dub I think gets more praise than deserved.

I rather liked Jamieson Price as Giovanni, actually. Blue's VA was pretty decent as well, but other than that? It was a fairly "meh" dub for me.

Though as far as the LA-dubbed Pokemon projects are concerned, I did like it more than Generations or Masters at least. (Haven't seen the other ones yet, so I can't comment on them.)

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

I rather liked Jamieson Price as Giovanni, actually. Blue's VA was pretty decent as well, but other than that? It was a fairly "meh" dub for me.

Though as far as the LA-dubbed Pokemon projects are concerned, I did like it more than Generations or Masters at least. (Haven't seen the other ones yet, so I can't comment on them.)

Tend to agree with all of this, I actually think Jamieson Price was a much better Giovanni than Archie (not sure what people like about the latter, it’s just Price doing the same voice he uses for literally every role and not at all distinctive like say JYB on Brock- doesn’t help the character himself is horrendously stupid in Generations tbf though imo) and probably the one TPCI era recast albeit from the LA pool so technically not that I felt was equally on par to the original 4Kids one in Ted Lewis’ take (they’d let him reprise Giovanni anyway mid DP so it’s not a big deal though, Ted got that role back and they’ll probably give him Tracey but we’ll see, may opt for Blair).

Archie is someone that 4Kids cast well, but Darren seemed to not direct properly: Sean Schemmel is a very good choice on paper, but it took him until the second episode to drop the gargly voice for him and he’s someone I think both dubs could’ve handled better tbh. I think Maxie was done notably better under them, though, Lex Lang bores me: Marc Thompson had this swarmy Don Adams like take that was so cool, cunning, and intriguing imo.

I agree Origins was the best dubbed LA Pokémon project out of the triad, the worst actually for me is Generations. Masters is very iffy, but it’s pretty unanimous the VA work there is dodgy at best on the whole (Greg Chun’s Bruno is just embarrassing, as one exception to this, Bill Rogers fit this role in Generations much more than others he’s done to me— even though Maddie Blaustein imo was the best fit, but Bill was still a tad generic in comparison).

I will say this, I did like JYB Brock and Hebert Prof Oak more than most seemed to. Yes, Eric Stuart was the best Brock to me, and Stan Hart/Stuart Zagnit was the best Prof Oak as well for me, but I thought they were better vocal matches to their old dub VAs than what TAJ/PUSA ended up choosing for those two in the main Series.

To be fair, Cathcart’s Oak was better than Diskin’s (imo, abysmal) attempt at it recently and Silverstein’s boring take imo.

 

[Superior Serperior]

.

• I don't like how Meowth's role has been significantly reduced in SM and JN. He went from being the boss to just another member of the trio, I miss his old self and how he ocasionally bonded with some of the protagonists' Pokemon.

Was Meowth ever the boss? If anyone I would say it’s Musashi, but I don’t think the show really puts any TRio member over each other.

 

[R.O.B.]

And

I rather liked Jamieson Price as Giovanni, actually. Blue's VA was pretty decent as well, but other than that? It was a fairly "meh" dub for me.

Though as far as the LA-dubbed Pokemon projects are concerned, I did like it more than Generations or Masters at least. (Haven't seen the other ones yet, so I can't comment on them.)

Same! Actually those are the only two good voices in Origins, the rest of them sucked, Brock and Professor Oak being the worst offenders.

 

[Eitarou]

Was Meowth ever the boss? If anyone I would say it’s Musashi, but I don’t think the show really puts any TRio member over each other.

Meowth has always been the brains.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

TPCi’s Diamond and Pearl dub was & is a lot worse than people claim it was, completely amateurish and very grating voice acting for the mainstays for me made it a step down from the Advanced Generation dub (under 4Kids’ tenure, to clarify) if you ask me, but on top of that, JCC also began making Team Rocket’s script writing absolutely unbearable by the time DuArt took over from TAJ.

Sure, we got a bit more of the Japanese soundtrack than prior and a few random silent moments when DuArt took over, but it still kept less than 4/5 of the Original Series dub and on top of that, the intros were worse than any of the prior 9 with the DP Rap intro especially (the others weren’t much better, only Galactic Battles was any good of the 4). It wasn’t worth losing all the strong and veteran voice over talent from the prior dub nor the script writers that kept JCC in check especially with slang as well on the protagonist front, to have like 10% more of the score on average while everything else fell sharply in quality IMO. And this is coming from someone who loves Shinji Miyazaki’s OST, as well…

 

[R.O.B.]

The dub of the Advanced seasons (original, Battle, Challenge) was solid and didn't deserve all the flak it got - Battle Frontier deserved the criticism though.

 

[HylianBelmont]

Tend to agree with all of this, I actually think Jamieson Price was a much better Giovanni than Archie (not sure what people like about the latter, it’s just Price doing the same voice he uses for literally every role and not at all distinctive like say JYB on Brock- doesn’t help the character himself is horrendously stupid in Generations tbf though imo) and probably the one TPCI era recast albeit from the LA pool so technically not that I felt was equally on par to the original 4Kids one in Ted Lewis’ take (they’d let him reprise Giovanni anyway mid DP so it’s not a big deal though, Ted got that role back and they’ll probably give him Tracey but we’ll see, may opt for Blair).

Archie is someone that 4Kids cast well, but Darren seemed to not direct properly: Sean Schemmel is a very good choice on paper, but it took him until the second episode to drop the gargly voice for him and he’s someone I think both dubs could’ve handled better tbh. I think Maxie was done notably better under them, though, Lex Lang bores me: Marc Thompson had this swarmy Don Adams like take that was so cool, cunning, and intriguing imo.

I agree Origins was the best dubbed LA Pokémon project out of the triad, the worst actually for me is Generations. Masters is very iffy, but it’s pretty unanimous the VA work there is dodgy at best on the whole (Greg Chun’s Bruno is just embarrassing, as one exception to this, Bill Rogers fit this role in Generations much more than others he’s done to me— even though Maddie Blaustein imo was the best fit, but Bill was still a tad generic in comparison).

I will say this, I did like JYB Brock and Hebert Prof Oak more than most seemed to. Yes, Eric Stuart was the best Brock to me, and Stan Hart/Stuart Zagnit was the best Prof Oak as well for me, but I thought they were better vocal matches to their old dub VAs than what TAJ/PUSA ended up choosing for those two in the main Series.

To be fair, Cathcart’s Oak was better than Diskin’s (imo, abysmal) attempt at it recently and Silverstein’s boring take imo.

Brock was very much a "what you see is what you get" performance from JYB, yeah. He was serviceable, but he's also done much better IMO. Professor Oak was in the same boat for me.

I do agree that Sean's take sounded oddly forced at the beginning. Personally, I think someone like David Brimmer or FB Owens would fit Archie quite well too, but alas. I did get a kick out of Marc's Maxie, though. "Why am I getting the distinct feeling you don't like us, Ash? Hm?"

(I still have no clue what they were going for with Diskin as Oak, either...)

Anyway, in regards to controversial/unpopular opinions I might have... I actually liked Iris' characterisation in BW? I thought she was a nice homage to Misty, while still feeling like her own character. Her dub voice was rather snarky and cute, her rivalry with Georgia was amusing, etc. And I liked how she would clash with Cilan over certain things, like the "angry spirit" in the museum for instance, haha.

 

[Rockapheller]

Meowth has always been the brains.

Which is what Jessie and James value the least.

 

[AgedVeteranofShow]

The dub of the Advanced seasons (original, Battle, Challenge) was solid and didn't deserve all the flak it got - Battle Frontier deserved the criticism though.

I absolutely agree, while not the "best," they were all still serviceable and very watchable/tolerable in English (the worst of the later 4Kids Era is Chronicles by far, the early 4Kids Era Movies 1-2 for sure). There are pieces of Japanese OST heard in 4Kids' AG Saga's dub that would never be heard again in the TPCi dub like the S.S. Aqua theme or weren't heard in the Movie dubs from 4Kids earlier kept here like Movie 1's Danger-Pikachu + Movie 2's Escape, believe it or not, and the voice acting from the main cast was still very solid (even the weak link, admittedly it is James, is still much better there than JCC was for the majority of his tenure with the part and genuinely a bit better than Callagy is right now too) & they got new VAs for the side characters so it was interesting. I can still go back and actually enjoy myself re-watching any of the 8 Seasons before TPCi took over the licensure, there's a certain charisma and heart to the 4Kids Era that they never managed to replicate (everyone hated Battle Frontier's dub, I was mixed to negative on it though personally).

I think the fandom is rightly the most critical/thinks lowest of the dubs of XY, Sun/Moon, and JN, on the converse side, not controversial & popular opinion there though: but what is controversial is saying there were/are several problems with the modern Pokemon dub aside from subpar vocal direction & Ed Goldfarb/Akhil Gopal's music score being present almost everywhere these days while eliminating almost all of Hayashi's score as they did with Miyazaki's in the prior two Series, in the modern Pokemon dub.

The script writing still has several rewrites (even Dogasu conceded this) in the current dub that detract from the original intent, and the intros continued to be bland, generic, and generally lifeless to the very end (the last OP is just a remix of an iconic dub theme 4Kids did, and done worse, IMO). Also, bringing back censorship, something TPCi promised they wouldn't do anymore when they took over, and still ended up doing from Seasons 19-25 because...?

Brock was very much a "what you see is what you get" performance from JYB, yeah. He was serviceable, but he's also done much better IMO. Professor Oak was in the same boat for me.

I do agree that Sean's take sounded oddly forced at the beginning. Personally, I think someone like David Brimmer or FB Owens would fit Archie quite well too, but alas. I did get a kick out of Marc's Maxie, though. "Why am I getting the distinct feeling you don't like us, Ash? Hm?"

(I still have no clue what they were going for with Diskin as Oak, either...)

Anyway, in regards to controversial/unpopular opinions I might have... I actually liked Iris' characterisation in BW? I thought she was a nice homage to Misty, while still feeling like her own character. Her dub voice was rather snarky and cute, her rivalry with Georgia was amusing, etc. And I liked how she would clash with Cilan over certain things, like the "angry spirit" in the museum for instance, haha.

I actually think Iris was very amusing (I actually like Eileen Stevens as her the most, while I'm critical of TPCi that's one casting choice they actually got right to me besides Emily Bauer's Dawn in DP, which otherwise I did not enjoy the dub of that saga myself).

Cilan was also very funny, my unpopular opinion, I liked him more than DP era Brock as a protagonist with "It's tasting time!"