Controversial opinions

[Karakuri18]

Sprigatito does show that it is ready and willing to battle, despite its trainer being more adverse to them. However that is hardly something unique to the cat.

I didn't get the impression that Liko had a negative attitude towards fighting.

 

[Dr. Gro 3001]

I didn't get the impression that Liko was that keen on fighting. She even initiated some of them.

I suppose you might be right. Still, she did give up on one fight, even though Sprigatito still wanted to fight. However, that would only be one fight.

 

[Alola]

I just don't understand the logic of how we went from main protagonists battling complete battles on their own to the main protagonists now having to 2 v 1 opponents (with the latest one featuring a the handicap of "hit my Pokémon just once to win."). It is so incredibly baffling.

 

[Daren]

I just don't understand the logic of how we went from main protagonists battling complete battles on their own to the main protagonists now having to 2 v 1 opponents (with the latest one featuring a the handicap of "hit my Pokémon just once to win."). It is so incredibly baffling.

A lot of what I've read about Horizons gives me the feeling of something trying as hard as possible to split from it's predecessor--something I can understand, to some extent, but some of this sounds like it's just completely abandoning the main themes of the franchise.

 

[Poke Trey]

A lot of what I've read about Horizons gives me the feeling of something trying as hard as possible to split from it's predecessor--something I can understand, to some extent, but some of this sounds like it's just completely abandoning the main themes of the franchise.

I've been hearing that alot lately. I do somewhat agree but, think it's necessary to have the show be DIFFERENT and still be recognizably Pokémon. Like the battles in particular have been the most changed, that's cuz it's not as much of an priority compared to past series.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I've been hearing that alot lately. I do somewhat agree but, think it's necessary to have the show be DIFFERENT and still be recognizably Pokémon. Like the battles in particular have been the most changed, that's cuz it's not as much of a priority compared to past series.

Though in that regard you can be different without kneecapping what is an essential pillar of the franchise as a whole. It ends up feeling like the writers conflate battle with being specifically an Ash thing and try too hard to be the antithesis of anything Ash when in reality it’s a franchise long aspect. In that, Horizons is essentially 1 set forward, 2 steps backward.

 

[Hidden Mew]

On one hand, I can understand why they'd want to have Liko and Roy be less battle active. Not just to make them more distinct from Ash, but after the Master Class tournament, they probably didn't want to jump right into a badge collecting journey with new protagonists.

But on the other hand, battling is a key component of the entire franchise. It's how conflicts are dealt with and how character development can happen for both trainers and their Pokemon. Wanting to make Liko and Roy different is all well and good, but this would be like if they tried to have Judai not be that into dueling to make him distinct from Yugi. Granted, Pokemon is a bit more of a flexible franchise compared to Yu-Gi-Oh!, but Pokemon battles is still a key component of the whole franchise. Losing that, or at least having a much smaller amount of battling for the new protagonist, is a big issue.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I just don't understand the logic of how we went from main protagonists battling complete battles on their own to the main protagonists now having to 2 v 1 opponents (with the latest one featuring a the handicap of "hit my Pokémon just once to win."). It is so incredibly baffling.

It's baffling how this even came about. I don't even have any words for it. It's like they're babying these newbies and treat them like they can't handle anything serious/dangerous.

Like the battles in particular have been the most changed, that's cuz it's not as much of an priority compared to past series.

And yet battles are an integral, fundamental part of the Pokemon series as a whole, so to finish their importance in the narrative is foolhardy if you ask me.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Yeah, I gotta preach to the choir that the lack of battles is baffling. I get not wanting to mirror Ash's own journey, but there's gotta be ways to keep battles around without it being a carbon copy. Like, say, for example, maybe Liko and/or Roy want to become strong so they can defend themselves and use the Gym Challenge as a vehicle for that? This motivation would also make it make more sense that these new guys don't stick around anywhere near as long as Ash did, since Ash was actively aiming to become the best that no one ever was, but merely wanting to be able to not instantly fold to any threat that comes your way is a far more feasable thing to achieve in the short run.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

I don't mind if they portray Liko and Roy as being awful at battling, but I agree, the lack of battles in this series is kind of annoying. Even just wild Pokémon battles appearing more frequently would greatly enhance the overall series. Hell, it would help both characters grow as trainers too.

 

[Daren]

I think I recall a chart showing that after AG the number of battles per season began to slowly drop, and then nosedived in Sun/Moon. I don't think JN was on the chart due to when it came out, but that had one plenty of complaints about having mostly small battles against one-off trainers until late in. That would make it look like an intentional effort to ratchet down the importance of battles, one arguably following the games.

 

[darksteel6]

Yeah Pokemon without battles is like Yugioh without card games(and yes i'm aware the Manga wasn't originally focused on card games but that's the part that took off in popularity)it's like what's the point?

The season of Yugioh with barely any card games "Dawn of the Duel" was easily the weakest season of the entire franchise for me by far and I shudder at the thought of a Pokemon season like that.

 

[Insanish Danish]

Hell I'm not even someone who's ever primarily watched the anime for the battles (really, it's the character interactions that make me love it so much) and I'm still baffled by this decision to barely let the current heroes fight their own battles. I really don't understand the direction they're going in this series; it just feels like they're winging it, honestly.

 

[Weddingbells]

It's not just lack of battles. Idk where I read it, but I remember someone calling HZ a show about people first and Pokemon 2nd, compared to the Ash anime, and that honestly hits the nail on the head.

 

[Hidden Mew]

It's not just lack of battles. Idk where I read it, but I remember someone calling HZ a show about people first and Pokemon 2nd, compared to the Ash anime, and that honestly hits the nail on the head.

Interestingly enough, I remember reading a similar comment here about Journeys back when it was airing. It might have been more about how there was less focus on the Pokemon themselves since outside of capture or evolution episodes, most of the Pokemon didn't get much attention. Horizons focusing more on the human characters first and the Pokemon second would fit with that in mind as well.

 

[Daren]

Interestingly enough, I remember reading a similar comment here about Journeys back when it was airing. It might have been more about how there was less focus on the Pokemon themselves since outside of capture or evolution episodes, most of the Pokemon didn't get much attention. Horizons focusing more on the human characters first and the Pokemon second would fit with that in mind as well.

Looking back at an older interview, the executive director (until JN117), Daiki Tomiyasu, had told the writers to make Journeys "about Pokémon in the human world" instead of the reverse. There are a couple ways to interpret such a statement, however (it may have been more clear in Japanese).

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Interestingly enough, I remember reading a similar comment here about Journeys back when it was airing. It might have been more about how there was less focus on the Pokemon themselves since outside of capture or evolution episodes, most of the Pokemon didn't get much attention. Horizons focusing more on the human characters first and the Pokemon second would fit with that in mind as well.

This was one of the other issues I had with Journeys, though I feel like we've gotten more Pokemon getting time to just be on screen outside of battles and show some personality compared to Journeys.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Looking back at an older interview, the executive director (until JN117), Daiki Tomiyasu, had told the writers to make Journeys "about Pokémon in the human world" instead of the reverse. There are a couple ways to interpret such a statement, however (it may have been more clear in Japanese).

I absolutely hated that the series director had gone with that concept as it really sucked a lot of the magic out of the series. I don‘t watch Pokémon to be reminded of the real world but instead for the high fantasy elements. Honestly, the only thing that really nailed such a concept in an interesting way was The Power of All of Us and even then, it definitely didn’t undercut the Pokémon element considering they lived in harmony with the Pokémon.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I absolutely hated that the series director had gone with that concept as it really sucked a lot of the magic out of the series. I don‘t watch Pokémon to be reminded of the real world but instead for the high fantasy elements.

It sure did! Just another on a long list of reasons why I think Journeys was the worst series in the entire Pokemon anime, an utter disgrace.

And yeah, exactly! I watch Pokemon to embrace the high fantasy and get away from the real world, not be reminded of it! I watch this anime for the Pokemon 1st, and the people 2nd.

 

[Insanish Danish]

And yeah, exactly! I watch Pokemon to embrace the high fantasy and get away from the real world, not be reminded of it! I watch this anime for the Pokemon 1st, and the people 2nd.

See I actually do watch the show for the people first and the Pokemon second, but like...the show is literally called Pokemon. They should be the main focus. It's weird that we've gotten to the point where they...kind of aren't.