Do we want TM's to stay re-usable?

[Gaga]

I guess in my case, learning a move doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should really do when you're out in the middle of the journey. It's like, say, buying a new water bottle - it starts out empty, not automatically filled with the water from your last bottle.

I consider PP something like mana; all coming from one pool. Stronger moves use more mana and thus you can use them less

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

I guess in my case, learning a move doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should really do when you're out in the middle of the journey. It's like, say, buying a new water bottle - it starts out empty, not automatically filled with the water from your last bottle.

I consider PP something like mana; all coming from one pool. Stronger moves use more mana and thus you can use them less

I think it'd be better to consider them under Vancian Magic rather than taking from a single Mana pool: Like in the old Final Fantasy games where you had several "tiered" slots for magic and spells took from points in each slot.

So you had 4 shots of Quake, 10 of Fire, 8 of Lighting etc independent from each other, and you could equip six (IIRC) spells at a time. Seems pretty similar to how Pokémon moves work, except the uses are inherent to the move instead (so the 10 of Fire aren't shared with Ice, in Pokémon you have strictly 5 Fire Blasts and 5 Blizzards).

This kind of magic use is usually explained as the spells being already prepared but in limited uses for each, with stronger spells having higher limitations.

 

[Stratelier]

Think about the current system a bit . . . if a Pokemon is already "exhausted" (e.g. low/out of PP during a long journey), it makes sense that if you replace one move with a TM the Pokemon is still exhausted (thus, low/no PP for the new move). Conversely, if the Pokemon is full of energy and ready to set out (e.g. you just topped off at a Pokemon center), even though the TM move acquires the (possibly lower) PP of whatever it replaces this isn't a big deal.

 

[OmigawdMatt]

I'm an item collector, so using a TM would hurt so much.

 

[Zekurom]

Think about the current system a bit . . . if a Pokemon is already "exhausted" (e.g. low/out of PP during a long journey), it makes sense that if you replace one move with a TM the Pokemon is still exhausted (thus, low/no PP for the new move). Conversely, if the Pokemon is full of energy and ready to set out (e.g. you just topped off at a Pokemon center), even though the TM move acquires the (possibly lower) PP of whatever it replaces this isn't a big deal.

If you wanted that logic to apply, you would probably need to use a shared "endurance" for moves or whatever, and not have a separate count per move.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

One change I would make to reusable TM's is to have the PP start from zero rather than keeping the PP from the previous move.

W-why? Why would you want to force extra trip-s to pokecenters? D:

I guess in my case, learning a move doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should really do when you're out in the middle of the journey. It's like, say, buying a new water bottle - it starts out empty, not automatically filled with the water from your last bottle.

You can purchase water bottles filled with water, so going by your reasoning, it would make just as much sense for PP to be completely filled when teaching a new move.

"I guess in my case, learning a move doesn't seem like the kind of thing you should really do when you're out in the middle of the journey." <<< This doesn't make any sense, as TMs are specifically designed to teach Pokemon moves in the middle of a journey, at any time you desire.

 

[Stratelier]

If you wanted that logic to apply, you would probably need to use a shared "endurance" for moves or whatever, and not have a separate count per move.

...and turn Pokemon into Final Fantasy?

 

[Zekurom]

You can purchase water bottles filled with water, so going by your reasoning, it would make just as much sense for PP to be completely filled when teaching a new move.

Exactly. Have them either full or empty, but not with the magical ability to transfer PP from the previous move.

This doesn't make any sense, as TMs are specifically designed to teach Pokemon moves in the middle of a journey, at any time you desire.

Another way to look at it is that after spending a bunch of energy learning a move, the Pokémon has no energy left to actually do it, until some resting/healing has been done.

If you wanted that logic to apply, you would probably need to use a shared "endurance" for moves or whatever, and not have a separate count per move.

...and turn Pokemon into Final Fantasy?

If you wanted that, you'd also need to implement a time-based turn system.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

You can purchase water bottles filled with water, so going by your reasoning, it would make just as much sense for PP to be completely filled when teaching a new move.

Exactly. Have them either full or empty, but not with the magical ability to transfer PP from the previous move.

This doesn't make any sense, as TMs are specifically designed to teach Pokemon moves in the middle of a journey, at any time you desire.

Another way to look at it is that after spending a bunch of energy learning a move, the Pokémon has no energy left to actually do it, until some resting/healing has been done.

That's the point of not filling up or lowering PP when teaching a new move. Your Pokemon has used a move, therefore using energy. You teach that Pokemon a new move that replaces the move you used, and your Pokemon doesn't randomly regain or lose energy for no reason, it has the same amount of energy left to continue using the newly taught move.

 

[Stratelier]

Note that in previous generations, if you had multiple copies of a TM you could use it to refill the PP for a given move at any time. It was a moot point for TM's you only acquired once, but with G5 making all TM's reusable they had to do something to keep this from happening indefinitely (otherwise, why carry any Ethers at all?) . That's why the inherits-same-PP rule exists: In-story justifications are beside the point.

 

[Zima]

Absolutely! I was excited to see that you no longer had to hoard TMs.

 

[Red of Pallet]

I personally didn't like it when TMs became re-usable. That was the only good thing about HMs. Now they're just HM's that can easily be forgotten...

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

I personally didn't like it when TMs became re-usable. That was the only good thing about HMs. Now they're just HM's that can easily be forgotten...

Unless GameFreak decides to remove all obstacles that require HM's to overcome, they will be pretty hard to forget.

 

[Stratelier]

Why? You still have the HM, so you can re-teach it to the Pokemon any time you need it.

 

[Lofty]

TMs should stay reusable. Hoarding and trading for TMs is too much effort just to teach a move to your Pokemon.

 

[mulqxvi]

I like that TMs are now reusable otherwise I would never use them.

But there could be a method where someone from Silph Co. (or the corresponding local company) could meet with the player to give them a quest to collect all the TMs for him/her to analyze. The employee would then be able to duplicate any "wild" TMs to permanently add them to a theoretical TM Store for the player to buy. It would add some arbitrary money sink to discourage teaching the whole team a powerful move without consequence.

However, it would be less convenient and more complicated than the current system which is why I don't think it will or should happen.

 

[Red of Pallet]

I like that TMs are now reusable otherwise I would never use them.

But there could be a method where someone from Silph Co. (or the corresponding local company) could meet with the player to give them a quest to collect all the TMs for him/her to analyze. The employee would then be able to duplicate any "wild" TMs to permanently add them to a theoretical TM Store for the player to buy. It would add some arbitrary money sink to discourage teaching the whole team a powerful move without consequence.

However, it would be less convenient and more complicated than the current system which is why I don't think it will or should happen.

That's actually not a bad idea, I wouldn't mind it because then TM's wouldn't be such an easy concept and you would have something to spend my battle winnings on (since I always end up with more money than I need to spend in the game).

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

I like that TMs are now reusable otherwise I would never use them.

But there could be a method where someone from Silph Co. (or the corresponding local company) could meet with the player to give them a quest to collect all the TMs for him/her to analyze. The employee would then be able to duplicate any "wild" TMs to permanently add them to a theoretical TM Store for the player to buy. It would add some arbitrary money sink to discourage teaching the whole team a powerful move without consequence.

However, it would be less convenient and more complicated than the current system which is why I don't think it will or should happen.

I can't imagine GameFreak going from re-usable TMs to unlimited purchases of any TM. You're essentially doing a lot more in order to achieve what GameFreak has already once implemented. I barely see the point. Also, he'd have to be available in game so players are actually aware that this concept exists before they use their TMs, and also to allow them to not have to go through a lot of the game without using any of their TMs. It makes much more sense sticking to re-usable TMs.

 

[mulqxvi]

I like that TMs are now reusable otherwise I would never use them.

But there could be a method where someone from Silph Co. (or the corresponding local company) could meet with the player to give them a quest to collect all the TMs for him/her to analyze. The employee would then be able to duplicate any "wild" TMs to permanently add them to a theoretical TM Store for the player to buy. It would add some arbitrary money sink to discourage teaching the whole team a powerful move without consequence.

However, it would be less convenient and more complicated than the current system which is why I don't think it will or should happen.

I can't imagine GameFreak going from re-usable TMs to unlimited purchases of any TM. You're essentially doing a lot more in order to achieve what GameFreak has already once implemented. I barely see the point. Also, he'd have to be available in game so players are actually aware that this concept exists before they use their TMs, and also to allow them to not have to go through a lot of the game without using any of their TMs. It makes much more sense sticking to re-usable TMs.

I am completely aware that it is going backwards and is essentially a nerf. I never expect this idea to be implemented but we still have to think of alternative solutions just to provoke discussion. Just saying "No" to things doesn't create a dialogue.

This thread is just a bunch of "Yes because I am a hoarder and would never use them otherwise". Why leave this thread open if nothing new is being said?

The guy could be introduced very early (first town even) and give you a "TM recorder" that activates when you pick up/receive a TM. Then you could use your TM immediately and still be able to duplicate it.

Or we could go the simple way and just make Move Tutors free as well and PokeMarts too.

 

[Hidden Power]

Yes, I want that TM's still reusable. With X and Y the game will got around 800 Pokémons available and it would be very boring passing down TM moves through breeding. You're forced to teach them to males and have to hope that the son will inherit the nature and IV's you need.

The greatest shot on making TM's reusable is that this encourages players to test moves on their Pokemons and reteach another TM if the strategy doesn't work as planned. Since you have many competitive places (Battle Subway, PWT, Wi-Fi Battles), you're likely to build your movesets often until you reach the prime set. That's why I believe that TM's will still be reusable.