Review DP187: Intense Fighting Full Battle! Satoshi VS Shinji!!

[Duckgon Z]

Honestly, from what I've seen, this is definitely the best battle of the series, well at least its up there.

But really, the battle was never going to live up to anyone's expectations. I mean, I was expecting a knockout, drag-out, fight, with guys barely edging out wins and possibly one fall guy. Pokes like Torterra, Honchkrow, and Magmortar getting barely defeated in long fights against Infernape, Torterra, and Buizel.

But now? Don't get me wrong, the battle is great, but when it takes 3 or 4 Pokemon to take down Drapion, it seems more like only Infernape got stronger 1 and 2 shotting guys left and right, Pikachu, Buizel, and Staraptor (it beat Paul's Weavile one on one) look ok, while Torterra and Gliscor look like nothing in comparison. It just looks like only 1 guy got stronger and everyone else just stayed the same while Paul got 4 depowered Pokes along with Electivire and Drapion.

It's just so more damn lopsided than I imagined it would be.

 

[Chaosblazer]

^I agree, Aggron and Gastrodon despite having great offensive powers, have no defense whatsoever as they got knocked out in 1-2 strikes, Ninjask relied on it's speed to outwit gliscor, and judging from the fact that Infernape OHKO'ed it, if Gliscor's Stone Edge had got it, we probably would've seen the same result, and Froslass ironically the more i watch the fight between it and Pikachu almost seems like rewatching Weavile and Staraptor fighting each other.

Think about it. Pikachu and Staraptor were both weakened when the ice types came out, both sustained much damage from the ice types before hitting them with a super effective move, they were then struck by an attack from the ice type and then countered and killed the ice types with thier recoil moves.

Drapion so far is the only true threat pokemon Paul has, and since we know Electrivire isn't going to win, yeah I can see why his team is veiwed by some as downplayed compared to the lake team.

What they should've done was keep the four pokemon from the lake who didn't lose, add a random reserve (As someone pointed out Hariyama could've been a good choice due to thick fat and it being a fighting pokemon itself to counter Infernape.)and Drapion but not have made it the pokemon killing machine it is.

The one thing no one can deny is something is wrong with Ash's torterra, I really expected more from it, and "plot power" can't be used as an argument anymore.

 

[Cybersai]

I wouldn't say nobody improved.

Pikachu did fine, Infernape improved greatly, Buizel got a win with new moves, Gliscor will likely at least tie with Drapion, etc.

Staraptor is roughly the same, but the only real disappointment is Torterra, but whatever.

 

[Chaosblazer]

what's intresting is Gliscor Infernape and buizel are the only ones who really changed before the fight and benefited from it, torterra changed but got no benefits and Staraptor and Pikachu didn't change at all.

 

[Cybersai]

It was really letting Infernape get 3 wins that screwed stuff.

Infernape beating Ninjask was kinda pointless, IMO. It wasn't seen as that big a threat. Torterra should have at least beaten that.

 

[Ampharos King]

At least? Don't underestimate any of Paul's pokemon.

Paul mentioned early on that there is a compatibility between each pokemon's specific battle style. Iow, certain pokemon have a tactile advantage over others. The reason why Paul recalled Drapion in favor of Ninjask was not because Drapion was tired, but because Ninjask was naturally more suited to counter Gliscor.

Ninjask is very fast, even for the standard of an aerial battle. Even if it could be defeated in one or two hits, it does not downplay Ninjask's true strength. Infernape only got the win against Ninjask because of a high priority move (Mach Punch).

I don't think Torterra would have been able to defeat Ninjask, imo. Ninjask would have easily dodged Torterra's attacks the same way it did Gliscor's. Rock Climb, Energy Ball, Leaf Storm. You name it, but those are Torterra's offensive moves. Furthermore, we know from past experiences that, as a Grotle, Torterra was not adept in fighting aerial opponents. It lost to Honchkrow twice because its attacks did not connect and was not sturdy enough to withstand the enemy's moves.

Torterra's specific battle style was not comparible to the pokemon that it fought against. Even if Torterra was paired up with Ninjask, if its attacks don't connect, what's the point?

 

[CommanderPigg]

I doubt it was comashipping. I think it was something about Gliscor, I heard its name plus the japanese names for Stone edge and Giga Impact mentioned.

Lol, I too want to know what they were saying. I think Paul was predicting Ash'd bring out Gliscor...and he was recalling Drapion. IDK, that's pretty obvious

But the line afterward went something like:
Ash: Shinji, you're amazing, really....that's why I'm going to beat you!

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

Good second part overall. Although when Torterra was knocked out I said "No way!" to the computer screen. But I suppose Drapion is overpowered because it's "new" in that we've never seen it before and therefore gets to be extra powerful just to show how intense Paul can be with all his Pokemon and to make up for its lack of screentime (if ya know what I mean).

 

[Iteru]

I think that it is safe to say that Dodaitose is the most wasted potential for this saga. I really do believe that Satoshi has no idea on how to use it properly, especially Rock Climb.

No Blast Burn here like I hoped, though we could see it being used in the next episode I guess.

I'm going to re-affirm my stance on Goukazaru going back to Shinji like others have speculated before me. It's entire story is centered around Shinji and his impact on it.
I also really don't want it to get the chance to be used in DP190 or DP191, even though the chance of their being a battle in those eps is slipping (for Satoshi anyway).

I have more issues with the 8th gym now. I honestly think they should have put Blaze mastery in a different episode and let Dodaitose get to star considering it was going to go down quick in this ep. I look to BW to improve on the aspect of giving poké more even chances to shine.

I thought that Buoysel using its flotation sac(?) was really clever and was a welcome change from simply powering out of Drapion's hold with an attack.

I wasn't too fussed about Mukuhawk as it got some decent time battling in the previous ep.

Oh and I like whenever they showed the field with the black background.

 

[Hellion]

I think that it is safe to say that Dodaitose is the most wasted potential for this saga.

After saying "You'll see it'll shine in the League" ever since Torterra evolved, I sorta agree. If that's all we see of Torterra in the League, it's bad.

No Blast Burn here like I hoped, though we could see it being used in the next episode I guess.

God I hope we see it.

I'm going to re-affirm my stance on Goukazaru going back to Shinji like others have speculated before me. It's entire story is centered around Shinji and his impact on it.

Wait what's your stance again? You want it to go back to Paul? As much as I like Infernape, I'd be cool with that.

I have more issues with the 8th gym now. I honestly think they should have put Blaze mastery in a different episode and let Dodaitose get to star considering it was going to go down quick in this ep.

Team at the 8th gym should have been Gible (no wins), Pikachu (Electivire) and Torterra (Jolteon and Luxray)

 

[WindBlast]

After watching the episode for like 5 times in HD I have to say:
ZOMG...ZOMG...ZOMG!!!!!! what a breath taking battle!!!

The animation was a killer! the battle was so action packed that I was at the edge of my seat for most of the time.
Sadly,I've got complaints >> those being:
-Bouysel falling so easily! He should have at least charged with aqua jet towards that pin missile XD ( I know he was poisoned but meh).

-My sweet little Mukuhawk @____@ I was devastated when the referee announced its defeat!!! "Mukuhak sento fno! Dorapian no kajii" and I was like nooooooooo at my computer!!! It did not even get to hit with Brave bird..@______@

-Dotaitose failing as if it was still a Naetle! I mean c'mon! you get synthesis and you got healed and then you get beaten by pin missile?? It should have taken Yukimenoko out that would have been a knocker!

-Both Tekkanin and Yukimenoko not getting many moves!!! I mean damn those two pokemon were so damn great that I wanted hug them while they were battling XD (<--- corny statement).

-Takkanin bites that dust by mach punch..a move it doubly resists!!! Thanks God it got burned a little with Flare Drive that made its loss a bit more legit.

-Gokazaru getting 3 wins and that resulting in both Mukuhawk's and dotaitose's being the fall guys >> I would have loved if Mukuhawk defeated Bossgodora with infight and if Dotaitose beat Yukimenoko with rock climb

Now nuf with complaints and lets get cracking about the positive parts:
-Mukuhawk dodging pin missiles and flying out as the sun is right behind him.

-Mukuhawk gets the best looking defeat.It was cross poisoned while being caught in the claws..it got hit in the ground full of toxic!! The best damn loss ever. simply badass!!!!!

-Bouysel and it is cool sac! Satoshi I love you and your creativity <3

- Dotaitose howling at Drapion when it was summoned.

-Dotaitose falling backwards from the mountain.

-Gokazaru flaming the entire damned battle field.

-Yukimenoko's spookiness <3 <3 and also her voice...so ghostly.

-Glion's battle with Tekkanin...now seriously people that was great on every possible level.

-Gokazaruo's mach punching Tekkanin...Can the animation of a move so plain like mach punch be any greater?

-Glion's scizor cross gliding at Drapion.I would really love to see a scizor cross vs cross poison XD

Overall,the episode from the start till the very end was great.I loved the music especially that of movie 9 " as long as i have breath" and the interaction between Satoshi and Shinji..like when Satoshi commented at shinji's greatness.
1000000/10

One other thing,Has anyone noticed how fitting Drapion is for shinji?
-they both are purple XD
-Drapion is both evil and poison type...<--so shinji XD
-Drapion is a pokemon with almost no weaknesses (it is only weak to ground) a pokemon that shinji would use.
-Also,like shinji its battle style is aggressive and brutal.

Ah!!! Minna no pokemon getto da zeeee!!1

 

[Iteru]

After saying "You'll see it'll shine in the League" ever since Torterra evolved, I sorta agree. If that's all we see of Torterra in the League, it's bad.

This is why I hope we don't see Betbeton appear in DP189, considering that its significance is low.

God I hope we see it.

I'm not as fussed as I was last week, but I'm still not that interested in Blast Burn.

Wait what's your stance again? You want it to go back to Paul? As much as I like Infernape, I'd be cool with that.

Yes, I want to see it go back to Shinji. Either Satoshi suggests it and lets Goukazaru decide or Goukazaru makes the notion itself.

Team at the 8th gym should have been Gible (no wins), Pikachu (Electivire) and Torterra (Jolteon and Luxray)

Yeah, it would have been a lot more interesting if this had happened and then I wouldn't have minded Dodaitose's loss as much.

 

[Cybersai]

The idea of Infernape actually wanting to go back to Paul is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

Why is anyone even bringing that up?

 

[Brisk Sunrise]

Honestly, I don't think I would like to see Infernape return to Paul. Doing that would just seem kind of messed up. It was already shown long ago that Chimchar didn't work well with Paul's way of doing things. However, Ash's way of doing things clicked with it, and the two of them formed an actual bond... something Paul and Chimchar never had.

Sure, Chimchar is now an Infernape, and is much more capable than he was as a Chimchar, but I still don't see how Infernape would want to go back to Paul when Ash has helped it so much more than Paul ever did. Why go back to the person who mentally scarred you and just abandoned you because you weren't performing as well as they thought you should?

That'd be like if Charmander went back to Damian, who only showed interest in it again after it showed how powerful it really was, having previously abandoned it to the elements with a false promise that ended up almost killing it.

 

[Iteru]

The idea of Infernape actually wanting to go back to Paul is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

Why is anyone even bringing that up?

It's called closure and you've been calling for it ever since DP began for your (even more ridiculous) insecurity about you becoming "an old man" at the age of 25. Goukazaru was the one who was scarred by Shinji and I think that it would be a better conclusion if Shinji was given another chance to prove that he accepts that it is the Pokémon's style that needs to be adapted to rather then the trainer's.
There's also the fact that without Shinji, what really makes Goukazaru stand out? Everything about it has stemmed from Shinji. A conclusion with Shinji is more meaningful then going to the lab.

 

[Ash6K]

Honestly, I don't think I would like to see Infernape return to Paul. Doing that would just seem kind of messed up. It was already shown long ago that Chimchar didn't work well with Paul's way of doing things. However, Ash's way of doing things clicked with it, and the two of them formed an actual bond... something Paul and Chimchar never had.

Sure, Chimchar is now an Infernape, and is much more capable than he was as a Chimchar, but I still don't see how Infernape would want to go back to Paul when Ash has helped it so much more than Paul ever did. Why go back to the person who mentally scarred you and just abandoned you because you weren't performing as well as they thought you should?

That'd be like if Charmander went back to Damian, who only showed interest in it again after it showed how powerful it really was, having previously abandoned it to the elements with a false promise that ended up almost killing it.

Agreed. And not to mention, I don't think Ash is the type to notion something like that without getting an idea that his pokemon wants to. And even then, Infernape's much happier with Ash and wouldn't all of a sudden want to go back to Paul.

And then there's Paul, it's not like this battle is going to completely change him. That'd be a totally sudden change that's out of character of him imo. I mean seeing Infernape's match against him and especially after reading some of the summaries, Paul's going to be amazed to see how much Infernape has grown under Ash's care. I don't think he'd ask for it back knowing how much stronger Infernape was with Ash rather than himself. And there's also been references of how Infernape fits Ash more than Paul so that also probably says something.

I could see Ash and Infernape gaining Paul's full respect after the match and Paul, in return, gains Ash's and Infernape's friendship through getting back that Soothe Bell.

 

[Cybersai]

It's called closure and you've been calling for it ever since DP began for your (even more ridiculous) insecurity about you becoming "an old man" at the age of 25. Goukazaru was the one who was scarred by Shinji and I think that it would be a better conclusion if Shinji was given another chance to prove that he accepts that it is the Pokémon's style that needs to be adapted to rather then the trainer's.
There's also the fact that without Shinji, what really makes Goukazaru stand out? Everything about it has stemmed from Shinji. A conclusion with Shinji is more meaningful then going to the lab.

So that's like saying a child who was abused by a parent in real life, (Chimchar), should want to go back to that same abusive parent when they're a teenager (Infernape).

Seriously, this is ridiculous. Paul also shouldn't get a fully evolved powerful Pokemon for no reason.

I also get the feeling Paul won't be appearing in the anime anymore, yet the writers still want Ash to use Infernape in the future, so I don't see it.

 

[Ash6K]

It's called closure and you've been calling for it ever since DP began for your (even more ridiculous) insecurity about you becoming "an old man" at the age of 25. Goukazaru was the one who was scarred by Shinji and I think that it would be a better conclusion if Shinji was given another chance to prove that he accepts that it is the Pokémon's style that needs to be adapted to rather then the trainer's.
There's also the fact that without Shinji, what really makes Goukazaru stand out? Everything about it has stemmed from Shinji. A conclusion with Shinji is more meaningful then going to the lab.

Wait, I thought the writers encouraged that the trainers learn to adapt to the pokemon (I think it was Dawn and Togekiss right?).

And again, looking at how Infernape became so much stronger with Ash...I don't think Paul would be the type to ask for it back knowing how better of a trainer Ash was with Infernape. And I remember someone saying this awhile ago and in the post, they said how the full battle showed that Ash and Paul are not trying to change each other's training styles, but to show how their training styles fit their pokemon or something like that. With that, this battle would show how Infernape fits Ash's style more than it did with Paul's. With Paul seeing that, I doubt he'd ask for Infernape back.

 

[Iteru]

So that's like saying a child who was abused by a parent in real life, (Chimchar), should want to go back to that same abusive parent when they're a teenager (Infernape).

Wow. I'm not even gonna explain how many wrong things there are with you making that comparison.

Seriously, this is ridiculous. Paul also shouldn't get a fully evolved powerful Pokemon for no reason.

I already explained why I think there is a reason, Shinji is a huge factor in Goukaru's story. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't it doesn't.

I also get the feeling Paul won't be appearing in the anime anymore, yet the writers still want Ash to use Infernape in the future, so I don't see it.

We've seen Shigeru appear before so personally I am not ruling out Shinji appearing again.

Wait, I thought the writers encouraged that the trainers learn to adapt to the pokemon (I think it was Dawn and Togekiss right?).

"that it is the Pokémon's style that needs to be adapted to rather then the trainer's."
My phrasing is probably confusing, sorry about that. So they need to adapt to the Pokémon rather then the other way around.

And again, looking at how Infernape became so much stronger with Ash...I don't think Paul would be the type to ask for it back knowing how better of a trainer Ash was with Infernape.

That's actually why I suggested before that Satoshi makes the notion and lets Goukazaru decide or if Goukazaru itself decides that it wants to give Shinji another chance. If Shinji were to ask himself, then I think it would be very awkward.

And I remember someone saying this awhile ago and in the post, they said how the full battle showed that Ash and Paul are not trying to change each other's training styles, but to show how their training styles fit their pokemon or something like that. With that, this battle would show how Infernape fits Ash's style more than it did with Paul's. With Paul seeing that, I doubt he'd ask for Infernape back.

As Gible would say, that was sort of lost when Glion came back.
There's also the fact that Shinji has only said that Goukazaru (as Hikozaru) was the only one to recieve such brutal training (I think it was said in an early ep). We've also known that Shinji has had to adapt with Dodaitose so it isn't so much his entire training style changing, more that he needs to be consistent with how he treats his pokémon (though I think that is more up to interpretation).

 

[Cybersai]

Wow. I'm not even gonna explain how many wrong things there are with you making that comparison.

What's wrong with the comparison? I have the time, explain.

I already explained why I think there is a reason, Shinji is a huge factor in Goukaru's story. If it happens it happens. If it doesn't it doesn't.

And the story is Paul is defeated at the hands of Infernape. So Infernape goes to Oak's lab where it'll rot for 200+ episodes, I don't see the problem. That's how the show works.