Mafia Fire in the Garden: Kanto Starters Mafia: Endgame, Bulbasaur Victory

[Snowy]

Overall, in between Mint, ExLight, Raven, Zexy, Caps and Snowy, at least one is scum in that group and I wouldn't be shocked if there's two. And if there's a third, it's basically one of the other players I have not listed in the previous sentence.

Vote: Snowy

I need to see more from you Snowy.

Did you really just say that half the town could be scum?

I don't really have a lot to say, honestly. I've always sucked at mafia All I really have is that Zexy is actively scum hunting, Mido is targeting Zexy because of Zexy's scum hunting, and wissan made some kind of weird joke in day 1.

 

[Snowy]

Half the game, not half the town.

Stop sleep posting, Snowy.

 

[ExLight]

UNVOTE : LICH KING
VOTE : ExLight

"I don't like the idea of voting someone that can't defend themselves out"

 

[ExLight]

"So I'll instead vote one of the few people who have been active and trying to contribute instead"

 

[ExLight]

ExLight - The obsession with roles and items I feel is distracting. I actually don't think ExLight is actively scumhunting and instead is trying to shift the discussion purely just to get "certainty." I feel that the discussions that ExLight wants to have should be reserved for mid-game to late game, not early in the game and certainly not in Day 1. Leaning scum.

How is trying to discuss what is the optimal strategy for town + trying to see if we can get any useful info from the claims made in thread is scummy?

I already explained my stance on the previous day lynch, and I think it's bizarre this is being ignored while Zexy's hypocrisy in voting out someone barely active D1 is bring rewarded with a town lean.

 

[ExLight]

ExLight: Null, little to discuss here tbh. Hope to see more from them next phase but they’re playing in 2 games rn so I can’t really blame them. (Same with Raven, and technically DW)

I'm dead in all other games I'm playing, so I'm playing mainly this one. P busy with college stuff and it doesn't help that more than half of the people here either get inactive or hostile when I try to discuss anything.

 

[ExLight]

Zexy's post made sense to me. They were visited by someone, they knew they were visited by someone, and who... but not what. they have no idea if it was a roleblock or a cop check. There was nothing alignment indicating in their post. Why vote for Zexy?

If it was NAI why would you assume this is the reason why they're being voted?

Other way around would sound suspicious. And the above quote of his sounds more like he knows who.

Vote: Zexy

yea my bad, missed that

 

[ExLight]

So I will pressure ExLight a bit more. Please contribute more to things that are not just the setup. Not that Snowy is not worth pressuring, but with votes at 1 on many people, scum are more likely to be on eggshells and slip up

I am the player with most posts and that interacted with you the most. I'm not sure what else you expect me to do or say when I've already said my opinion on D1, made a case as to who I want policy lynched, and have been actively trying to interact with others in the thread by either poking them or throwing out ideas that I deem worth discussing.

I can act like the majority of the players and drop a random readslist full of stretches and paranoia (if even that) to CWAC; or I can do what I have been doing and discuss the setup to optimize our odds + information provided in attempt of finding a contraction, which is actually useful but apparently frowned upon.

So I'm not sure why you and other players are so busy worrying about pressuring me, who's been in this thread at any given chance, when scum is likely to have a couple inactive players just lurking because they're too coward.
The fact mafia didn't bother shooting a more inactive player + the piling accusations of me "not contributing enough" makes it obvious that scum's strategy is to cripple the game activity even if it compromises the healthiness of the game. If anyone here knows my metagame as scum they're aware that I often insist in nightkilling the extremely low activity players first because I vehemently despite a game being compromised due to lack of participation, and this is like a basic moral standard I set, there isn't even WIFOM to be discussed here.

 

[ExLight]

OK, this isn't too wrong, but I'ld still prefer to wait a little longer atm.

Wait for what? Regardless of what jason's alignment was, the fact was that wissen is either a troll or a mafia. I don't see what reason ANY town has to go after jason first and I'd appreciate if they clarified their thought process instead of just saying stuff like "damn im sorry for jumping the gun"

I don't think that Mido is mafia, I feel like she wouldn't have started the wagon on me and instead go for the inactive lynch, maybe even building a case on me afterwards (aka today).

Mido doesn't go around lynching inactives as scum ime because her votes are always justified on analyzing the posts of whoever she's voting.
As I said me feeling she's off is gut feeling. I could try reading more into her posts in an attempt of justifying why I'm feeling like that, but honestly without a clear red flag that just leads to confirmation bias.

In addition to that, in a Mido/Wissen W/W scenario I feel like Mido would have thrown wissen under the bus, which is another reason why I want to have wissens slot around a little longer and potentially engage with it.

I agree Mido bussing wissen would be a possibility.

I don't like this

Yea and I don't like a slot that is just there being dead weight giving the host the headache of looking for a sub after steering a mislynch and breaking a rule.

I don't think that's how it works mate, if I got the explanation right, players have a move pool after evolving and their ability gets randed.
And this one might be wrong, haven't double checked, but I'm pretty sure the rules said that you can't get the same action two nights in a row. But like I said, take this with a grain of salt (or check for yourself ig)

From my understanding, at the end of each phase each player has 25% chance of evolving and gaining a role. If you gain a role you already had, it gets discarded and another one is randomly picked. The previous roles don't get randomized.

I'm assuming these roles can be n-shot or unlimited. If someone had "Worry Seed" (the role that targeted Zexy), then they should still be able to have access to it in the following nights, where the only exception is if it was a 1-shot, so they wouldn't have any other left.

We can simply confirm such person/ ability exist by it targeting someone else again in the following night, which was my point in that message.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

Each starter will have a list of moves that they can gain access to upon evolution; when you evolve, a move from the list will be selected at random for you to gain the ability to use at night. When evolving to your final stage, the list of moves expands slightly, and if you roll the same move for both your first and second evolution, your second stage move will be rerolled. Each player may only use one move per night.

From my understanding, at the end of each phase each player has 25% chance of evolving and gaining a role. If you gain a role you already had, it gets discarded and another one is randomly picked. The previous roles don't get randomized.

Yeah, I see what you mean, my bad

 

[TheCapsFan]

Pikochu's post is pretty shite, I must say.

I think though what we can infer from that visit is that the player did evolve during end of the day phase. Given the setup of the game, the player is to be more likely to be town.

omg, profound. Players need to evolve in order to visit people! An incredible revelation that was definitely not at all obvious before now.

I don't know if there's anything that we can go off with the RVS phase any more with Day 1. We have some information to work off of and it seems that we do have some information going on, assuming that if your claim is true and if that player has an investigative role and willing to share.

I would if the player did get information should probably keep it to themselves for the time being.

"We have some information, if that person who visited Zexy wants to share, but also - person who visited Zexy? You probably shouldn't share that information & should keep it to yourself."

What????

Now, looking at your reads. Can't argue with the Mido read. Or the ExLight read. Or the Raven read, either. I actually really like the ExLight read. It's pretty bold & I feel largely the same way.

TheCapsFan - Not a fan of him jumping from accusation to accusations. I just don't know if it's clueless town or if mafia shifting goals trying to lynch an inactive. Gutread wants to say slight scum.

This is a funny read. There are plenty of valid reasons to scumread me in this game - "jumping from accusation to accusation" is not one of them. I was pretty firm in my convictions yesterday and pushed lynching jaison and my theory both him and wissen were scumbuds hard. So far today I haven't accused anyone - i put out some reads earlier today, but none of them were "accusations" in the strongest sense where I felt comfortable voting. So I don't really know where this is coming from.

It's also funny because Mido is listed as town for having "hard stances" anyway. Again, I would argue that my stance was pretty hard yesterday. So then - and I'm just extrapolating here, but trying to make it make sense - I'm scum because I was wrong, and Mido gets a town read because "at least she wasn't proven to be wrong, yet?"

Snowy - Inactive in Day 1 and just barely posted anything of substance for Day 2. Actually, Snowy's Day 2 post rubs me off the wrong way because I feel it's just mostly parroting of what has been already said without actually trying to parrot. That post alone raises some serious red flags and there's not much else for me to work with from him.

How is Snowy parroting?? He found Mido's vote on Zexy to make 0 sense and then voted her. I don't think anyone's really voiced suspicion over that, so regardless of what you think of it he's certainly not "parroting." I mean, tell me who else in this game is actively sussing Mido?

gentlefeather - Going based on Day 1 and the last minute vote really looks suspicious under normal stances. The Day 1 posts also doesn't look that much better as gentlefeather doesn't seem to be taking stances as if gentlefeather is being swayed to jump from wagon to wagon when given the chance. Slight scum but I could also be getting confused with beginner's panic.

Couple questions:

• Why is it suspicious to vote last minute? Specifically, why is gentlefeather suspicious for doing this? She was trying to prevent someone from coming in at the last minute and tying the votes.
• Why is gentlefeather suspicious for voting last minute, but JamieIsBored isn't even given a read, despite him voting for the same player that gentlefeather tried to vote for, actually preventing a tie, and sealing jaison's fate yesterday?
• Was gentlefeather really being "swayed" by anything? They came in with confusion over the situation at the end of the day and tried to vote with the explicit reason of trying to prevent a tie.

LICH KING - I'm not gonna lie, LICH KING is either pulling a great con or just a frustrated town player. I do wish that there's at least some more attempt of analysis of what's been going also in terms of Zexy's claim and opinion of last night's kill. Not sure what to make of it really.

Why is LICH KING specifically being targeted here regarding not analyzing Zexy's claim? Plenty of players have popped in without really analyzing Zexy's claim. I wouldn't say I analyzed it. I wouldn't say Snowy analyzed it. And besides, hasn't it already been analyzed quite a bit already? I thought you didn't want people to parrot ideas.

And - regarding the dawn dusk kill, like Zexy said, the most interesting interactions with dawn dusk happened between LICH/jaison/wissen (all of which you want to ignore since it was prior to wissen being subbed out) and between myself and dawn dusk, and LICH already scumreads me for...some reason. So how is this productive to LICH, anyway?

Overall, in between Mint, ExLight, Raven, Zexy, Caps and Snowy, at least one is scum in that group and I wouldn't be shocked if there's two. And if there's a third, it's basically one of the other players I have not listed in the previous sentence.

Hoho, more incredibly profound stuff from pikochu. There is DEFINITELY one scum in half the game (oh yeah maybe a second) and there's another one in the other half that I didn't list! groundbreaking stuff, really.

Vote: Snowy

I need to see more from you Snowy.

And we close with a pressure vote on Snowy. I do agree that Snowy has been coasting a bit, and I'd like to see more from him, but I don't like the vote, because I don't think Pikochu's reasons for scumreading Snowy make sense. I would have preferred a vote on ExLight or Raven here, or even myself if you're going for pressure. Of the three, personally I think ExLight would be the best option for pressure at the moment, I think.

Overall a lackluster post, with plenty of contradictions, from a pretty lackluster slot so far. It seems like Pikochu is tripping over his words a bit and his thought process doesn't make much sense.

VOTE: Pikochu

 

[TheCapsFan]

Yeah ExLight and Snowy seem like they could give us more. Could be busy, could be coasting, not sure...

UNVOTE : LICH KING
VOTE : ExLight

Probably going to change again, but I think LICH is the kind of frustrated that won't give us more to work with if town and I would rather not give others a chance to tunnel there yet. Maybe later in the phase.

So I will pressure ExLight a bit more. Please contribute more to things that are not just the setup. Not that Snowy is not worth pressuring, but with votes at 1 on many people, scum are more likely to be on eggshells and slip up

I understand and agree with the sentiment, but I am a bit shifty at you for following another player's suspicion with a vote for the second time in the game. Especially because you are abandoning an original stance to do so. Granted, not too much since this is only pressure and you said you may return to Lich King later in the phase, but enough that I wanted to point it out & your slot has been kinda nagging at me in the back of the head all game, like I've said before.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Caps and Raven had more interactions with dawn dusk and why would I kill dawn dusk?
And what reason do I have to kill him?...

Just realizing that this was posted! Look Piko, LICH KING did mention the kill on dawn dusk. Even gave a little analysis too.

 

[ExLight]

Now, looking at your reads. Can't argue with the Mido read. Or the ExLight read. Or the Raven read, either. I actually really like the ExLight read. It's pretty bold & I feel largely the same way.

I find his read on me frustratingly deceptive and I'm surprised you agree with it
Can you elaborate a bit more on detail on what exactly you're expecting from me?

 

[TheCapsFan]

The fact mafia didn't bother shooting a more inactive player + the piling accusations of me "not contributing enough" makes it obvious that scum's strategy is to cripple the game activity even if it compromises the healthiness of the game. If anyone here knows my metagame as scum they're aware that I often insist in nightkilling the extremely low activity players first because I vehemently despite a game being compromised due to lack of participation, and this is like a basic moral standard I set, there isn't even WIFOM to be discussed here.

Shouldn't this give us more reason to suspect you? Or are you arguing that you as scum would have killed someone like JamieIsBored or Snowy who posted even less than dawn dusk?

Might be a stupid question but a genuine one nonetheless.

 

[ExLight]

I'm actually townleaning Pikochu because him voting me over a vanilla claim D1 sounds like an honest instinct reaction to countervote someone with the same role (even though he worded as it was a joke), before he realized everyone started as vanilla, which I think is less likely to happen if they were mafia.

Or are you arguing that you as scum would have killed someone like JamieIsBored or Snowy who posted even less than dawn dusk?

Snowy sometimes becomes more active, so prolly not him; but would definitely go after Wissen or Jamie first.

 

[TheCapsFan]

I don't see what reason ANY town has to go after jason first and I'd appreciate if they clarified their thought process instead of just saying stuff like "damn im sorry for jumping the gun"

Not directed at me but I gave my thought process of killing jaison first over wissen yesterday. My thought process was "follow the finger of suspicion, because if jaison is scum, wissen is 100% scum because there's no other way he would know (unless he got extremely lucky)."

I will admit I was at least a bit biased over the sub out as well, I thought it just confirmed my suspicion. And over recent instances of players gamethrowing that still piss me off.

I find his read on me frustratingly deceptive and I'm surprised you agree with it
Can you elaborate a bit more on detail on what exactly you're expecting from me?

Less mechanical talk and more scumhunting/analysis of players. Which, to your credit, I think you have started doing today.

Looking back at your posts from day 1 last night all of them were pretty much arguing over mech info or insinuating we should no lynch to stall and let players evolve. After some vibereads on me and mido I think during the night, we're back to mech info discussion regarding Zexy's stuff. Then you put forward the argument for a policy lynch and vote that slot, which is in essence just more stalling, but at least it's something.

It's not until after you were pressured by Zexy that this morning you've started to push more firm opinions on players besides just wissen, and give some insight into the gamestate.

Your argument is that using mech info to find a contradiction is more important than reads & analysis, which on paper is true, but when the only bit of mech info is "Zexy says he knows someone visited him, but he doesn't want to reveal who it is" there's not much more we can do besides analyze.

 

[DawningWinds]

@DawningWinds how is the status, are there issues? Dude Jinjo and Eli both jump ship or did you just not get an answer yet?

No answer from either at present.

 

[TheCapsFan]

The more I think about it the less I like Zexy's vote on ExLight. If you agree that both ExLight and Snowy need to be pressured, and you're already complaining about not being able to pressure enough people because there are a bunch with 1 vote on them, why vote ExLight, which just adds another player with 1 vote on them, and not add to the pressure on Snowy?

Is it because Zexy didn't want to look suspicious placing a second vote on Snowy directly after the first one was placed?

 

[Zexy]

Did you really just say that half the town could be scum?

I don't really have a lot to say, honestly. I've always sucked at mafia All I really have is that Zexy is actively scum hunting, Mido is targeting Zexy because of Zexy's scum hunting, and wissan made some kind of weird joke in day 1.

That does not give much to work with on you reads wise. Mido has done a lot more before just voting for me with not much explanation, something to add about all that?

"So I'll instead vote one of the few people who have been active and trying to contribute instead"

Thing is your kind of activity is a bit... Passive. You talk a lot, mostly about setup, but avoid making the hard decisions when it comes to voting. Which is slightly sus.

How is trying to discuss what is the optimal strategy for town + trying to see if we can get any useful info from the claims made in thread is scummy?

I already explained my stance on the previous day lynch, and I think it's bizarre this is being ignored while Zexy's hypocrisy in voting out someone barely active D1 is bring rewarded with a town lean.

I did not reward LICH with a town lean, just said that the kind of frustration he shows does not give us much to work with IF he is town. At least twice I said I am still considering voting for him, there just is no point pushing more cuz either he is scum (so we do not care about what he says) or town who won't give us much to work with later.

I am the player with most posts and that interacted with you the most. I'm not sure what else you expect me to do or say when I've already said my opinion on D1, made a case as to who I want policy lynched, and have been actively trying to interact with others in the thread by either poking them or throwing out ideas that I deem worth discussing.

I can act like the majority of the players and drop a random readslist full of stretches and paranoia (if even that) to CWAC; or I can do what I have been doing and discuss the setup to optimize our odds + information provided in attempt of finding a contraction, which is actually useful but apparently frowned upon.

So I'm not sure why you and other players are so busy worrying about pressuring me, who's been in this thread at any given chance, when scum is likely to have a couple inactive players just lurking because they're too coward.
The fact mafia didn't bother shooting a more inactive player + the piling accusations of me "not contributing enough" makes it obvious that scum's strategy is to cripple the game activity even if it compromises the healthiness of the game. If anyone here knows my metagame as scum they're aware that I often insist in nightkilling the extremely low activity players first because I vehemently despite a game being compromised due to lack of participation, and this is like a basic moral standard I set, there isn't even WIFOM to be discussed here.

OK to be honest this could be a difference in mafia phliosophy issue. But yeah, not giving us any reads list is exactly why I suspected you.

UNVOTE: ExLight

Will catch up to the rest in a bit, sorry I could not fit all in one post.