Mafia Fire in the Garden: Kanto Starters Mafia: Endgame, Bulbasaur Victory

[ExLight]

Hi ellieson
please catch up asap

 

[TheCapsFan]

2) why do you hold the supposed contradiction about jaison against me so much when Caps advocated for that lynch too? And in general, why drop the rather bold case on Caps yesterday? You have not made any progress on that front today

I am also confused as to where Mido's case on me went. I kind of assume it is still coming, because she responded mostly to you during that wall, but she did kinda throw some shade at Raven at the end as well.

 

[Zexy]

You know what, I suggest we make Mint Elv and Snowy the major wagons for today.
If Snowy flips mafia, feel free to mislynch me next, I will show no objections.

Another option for major wagons is Pikochu and Caps. If Piko is town, Caps has to be next.

But please, it has been half the phase and we have not even decided who the major wagons are gonna be. We need almost everyone to take clear "A or B" stances on something, 7 1-votes will not get us anywhere. Chances on a random 2-voter flip at the last minute is 70% town and little further reads can be made from that.

If someone other than Mint Elv wants me to be one of the wagons instead, feel free to suggest it, but please also give reasoning on who the other candidate should be, and why.

But please, we have 3 actives, all of us throwing accusations on one another, but no progress is being made. Let's settle on SOMETHING. A double wagon with at least one active on each..

To show good faith on my suggestion, I will unvote gentle despite them not talking yet. We need to get the votes more centralised on two people.

UNVOTE : gentlefeather

 

[Zexy]

I am also confused as to where Mido's case on me went. I kind of assume it is still coming, because she responded mostly to you during that wall, but she did kinda throw some shade at Raven at the end as well.

What would you think on a Mido VS Snowy scenario? Mido's case on me hinges too much on the idea that I am protecting Snowy on purpose, why is she not pushing there instead to prove it?

 

[TheCapsFan]

You know what, I suggest we make Mint Elv and Snowy the major wagons for today.
If Snowy flips mafia, feel free to mislynch me next, I will show no objections.

Another option for major wagons is Pikochu and Caps. If Piko is town, Caps has to be next.

I have no desire to lynch either Mido or Snowy today.

And I don't like that you're telegraphing my lynch at all. That shit reeks.

But please, it has been half the phase and we have not even decided who the major wagons are gonna be. We need almost everyone to take clear "A or B" stances on something, 7 1-votes will not get us anywhere. Chances on a random 2-voter flip at the last minute is 70% town and little further reads can be made from that.

bruh I told you that a shit ton of 1-votes are not going to get us anywhere but you were all like "pressure is best when the votes are equal and spread out" wtf

 

[TheCapsFan]

Mido's case on me hinges too much on the idea that I am protecting Snowy on purpose, why is she not pushing there instead to prove it?

Mido is pushing the active players which is consistent with what she said on D1 as to why she was against the jaison lynch, and consistent with why I think she pushed me yesterday instead of Raven (though she has not confirmed this).

It's by no means unfakeable, but I think that in general is NAI, and matches up with what Mido tends to do.

 

[TheCapsFan]

This game feels very much like the spiderman meme right now.

Im not convinced that there is one scum between Mido and Zexy.

 

[Zexy]

I have no desire to lynch either Mido or Snowy today.

And I don't like that you're telegraphing my lynch at all. That shit reeks.


bruh I told you that a shit ton of 1-votes are not going to get us anywhere but you were all like "pressure is best when the votes are equal and spread out" wtf

OK, who do you want to be the other candidate alongside Piko?

I am not telegraphing specifically YOUR lynch, in fact in a Caps Piko scenario I would first vote Piko.

Pressure is best when the people actually feel pressured... Unfortunately I do not think Snowy feels that, or gentle/Jamie will feel that when they show up if they show up so little. It worked with LICH, it may unfortunately not work with everyone.

As of right now, I wanna pressure Snowy and Piko. I do not believe pressure on Mido or Caps will help unless they go alongside their wagon pair as suggested above. And honesty I do not have much of a case on Snowy, it is not fair to ask for a flip just to clear my name if Mido is not also roasted for it.

For the interest on getting the first 2-vote on SOMEONE, I will go for

VOTE : Pikochu

Why him? Because unlike the average null, I was a bit wary of his pushing for jaison instead of wissen early on, and Caps' case has valid points (if Caps is town).

If Piko flips scum, look at Elieson (wissen slot) next. Although we also need to see Elie start solving before locking in there.
If Piko flips town, Caps Caps Caps next.

I think this is more of an 60-40 than a 70-30 which is like, not good really, but it is better than the nothing we have otherwise.

 

[Zexy]

This game feels very much like the spiderman meme right now.

Im not convinced that there is one scum between Mido and Zexy.

I can get behind that sentiment unfortunately

One other hunch I have for this game, but the hunch % is almost as bad as the "LICH is scum" one, is that the entire scum team is super low activity and we will just walk in circles unless RNGods gives power roles played right on them and we get tangible investigations on them.

 

[Snowy]

@DawningWinds Please don't hate me but I need to sub out. Sorry!

 

[DawningWinds]

@DawningWinds Please don't hate me but I need to sub out. Sorry!

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Zexy]

Ouch... Good luck convincing Mido I did not stage this /s

Yeah the Snowy slot is on hold until we get a replacenement. Hope Elie catches up soon, we really need as many people as possible helping while the situation only gets worse

 

[Midorikawa]

I’m at work and training new people this week so response time is limited.

But I will say this.

@Zexy stop lying and trying to turn my case into something it is not. I noted something interesting about you and Snowy and said it’s a possibility but it is not my case. My case is the fact that you’re inconsistent and I’ll add on that you keep trying to turn evidence against you into evidence against others or get them to disregard it. My whole post was strictly posts from this day phase not day one. Yet you ignored me pointing out how full of it you are.

Unvote:
Vote Zexy x infinity

He’s now so desperate he’s trying to hide my case in him and get me lynched. It’s funny actually.

 

[TheCapsFan]

OK, who do you want to be the other candidate alongside Piko?

Ideally someone with w/w potential with Piko, so I don't think Snowy necessarily makes sense since Piko is voting them. Dont want to lynch Mido, don't want to lynch Jamie or gentlefeather. ExLight has a weak townread on Piko, but has looked better today and I don't think I want to lynch him today, plus townread on my scumread is not w/w by any means.

So that leaves Lich, you, Raven, and Elie? I see your arguments for Elie/Piko w/w based on Piko's voting patterns yesterday although I think it's weak, and want to give Elie a chance to catch up. Lich and Raven haven't really interacted with Piko at all so there's no real way to tell anything there.

Basically, idk. Trying to plan wagons is stupid and people should just vote who they think is scum.

I am not telegraphing specifically YOUR lynch, in fact in a Caps Piko scenario I would first vote Piko.

FMPOV as town, what you're doing feels incredibly scummy. I feel confident in my read on Piko, but I don't know his alignment for sure. So by you saying "let's kill Caps if he's wrong again" but also voting for the same person as me (for the second day in a row!), it makes me feel like you know Piko is a miselim and you're setting up for a 1v1 on Day 3 where you can just say "Caps was wrong twice, he's leading the town in a bad direction so he must be scum" while conveniently ignoring that you've been following my lead.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Im gonna take a break from this for a bit. I stream tonight so I want to clear my head and prepare for that, and I think i've been thinking about this game too much and posting too much.

 

[Zexy]

Yeah no point to defend vs Mido anymore, just sorry we got here but I really think it is just a clash of phliosophies, she is reading me more old school and could be town, while I jump around trying to get things more engaging.

Ideally someone with w/w potential with Piko, so I don't think Snowy necessarily makes sense since Piko is voting them. Dont want to lynch Mido, don't want to lynch Jamie or gentlefeather. ExLight has a weak townread on Piko, but has looked better today and I don't think I want to lynch him today, plus townread on my scumread is not w/w by any means.

So that leaves Lich, you, Raven, and Elie? I see your arguments for Elie/Piko w/w based on Piko's voting patterns yesterday although I think it's weak, and want to give Elie a chance to catch up. Lich and Raven haven't really interacted with Piko at all so there's no real way to tell anything there.

Basically, idk. Trying to plan wagons is stupid and people should just vote who they think is scum.


FMPOV as town, what you're doing feels incredibly scummy. I feel confident in my read on Piko, but I don't know his alignment for sure. So by you saying "let's kill Caps if he's wrong again" but also voting for the same person as me (for the second day in a row!), it makes me feel like you know Piko is a miselim and you're setting up for a 1v1 on Day 3 where you can just say "Caps was wrong twice, he's leading the town in a bad direction so he must be scum" while conveniently ignoring that you've been following my lead.

FMPOV as town LICH/Piko is the best wagons we could have, with maybe Raven/Piko next, although at this point I suspect Piko more and Raven less. But all of these give maximum info. Elie/Piko is not really necessary to be same day stuff.

People just voting who they think is scum just results in 7 1-votes and won't get anywhere. It would be ideal if everyone engaged enough, now... Not so much. I feel like the more actives should present an "A or B" choice for the rest to have to bet on. And I absolutely do not mind being the A of such a thing if there is a good enough complementary B, especially since there is most likely no way Mido is changing her mind this phase.

That is the exact problem we have here. FMPOV as town your arguments make sense, but if this leads to lynching wrong twice, I have to reconsider if you are subtly guiding me where you want to. If we are both town and both wrong there is no way to know before it is too late.

But it is an unfortunate possible reality and in fact there is a good enough chance too strictly probability speaking. We may be playing this game all wrong.

I could settle with me and Piko being the wagons worst case scenario, but am then afraid that if I flip, and scum kill Mido/Caps, Caps/Mido (respectively) is either scum or not enough to push forward the major presence scum hunting in the game.

We really need to see Elie's fresh POV, I feel like he is going to give us a lot to work with gamesolving-wise if not today, starting tomorrow, no matter who flips. Just do keep in mind if Piko flips scum he may not be trusted and Mido/Caps may both be town.

 

[Zexy]

Yeah, I am also most certainly overthinking it too, and it does not seem to be getting us anywhere.

 

[ExLight]

what have I come back to omfl

 

[Pikochu]

Have a pile of things I want to respond to now I have some free time today. Will go do the list.

Scum theater is a thing

The issue I have with that though is I highly doubt that scum wants to do a theater in such a way that would lead to bussing on Day 1, especially that early on Day 1.

How is trying to discuss what is the optimal strategy for town + trying to see if we can get any useful info from the claims made in thread is scummy?

The way you posted, it seems that you were trying to seek certainty over just grabbing information and doing analysis and doing such analysis analysis. Or at the very least, post impressions and guts.

I already explained my stance on the previous day lynch, and I think it's bizarre this is being ignored while Zexy's hypocrisy in voting out someone barely active D1 is bring rewarded with a town lean.

I didn't find your explanation to be groundbreaking to be honest. As I previously stated, I feel that your posts tend to be distracting from scumhunting by bringing up mechanics and discussions that should be have in the later phases.

omg, profound. Players need to evolve in order to visit people! An incredible revelation that was definitely not at all obvious before now.

And yet, there has been some discussions about evolution and roles and about visitors from Zexy's claim. My thought process is that the person who visited Zexy should be looked at it more wherever the hell that leads to. It's as if most players weren't paying attention to that part!

It's also funny because Mido is listed as town for having "hard stances" anyway. Again, I would argue that my stance was pretty hard yesterday. So then - and I'm just extrapolating here, but trying to make it make sense - I'm scum because I was wrong, and Mido gets a town read because "at least she wasn't proven to be wrong, yet?"

Mint's posts are based more on what happened and with attempts at logic while your posts looked more speculative to me.

ow is Snowy parroting?? He found Mido's vote on Zexy to make 0 sense and then voted her. I don't think anyone's really voiced suspicion over that, so regardless of what you think of it he's certainly not "parroting."

Zexy's post made sense to me. They were visited by someone, they knew they were visited by someone, and who... but not what. they have no idea if it was a roleblock or a cop check. There was nothing alignment indicating in their post. Why vote for Zexy?

Tell me how this is basically not parroting? That's where I thought this was basically essentially a parrot on Snowy's part.

Why is it suspicious to vote last minute? Specifically, why is gentlefeather suspicious for doing this? She was trying to prevent someone from coming in at the last minute and tying the votes.

I said under normal circumstances it would be suspicious. And I felt that gentle should have saw the other vote that broke the tie.

• Was gentlefeather really being "swayed" by anything? They came in with confusion over the situation at the end of the day and tried to vote with the explicit reason of trying to prevent a tie.

Upon further inspection, it seems that gentle did have questions about the tie. What confused me and that was me probably me being half awake upon catching up was "until you guys pushed on one of the people who hadn't confirmed." Past tired Piko read that as trying to bandwagon with a reason.

And besides, hasn't it already been analyzed quite a bit already? I thought you didn't want people to parrot ideas.

I want something more substantial from LICH. LICH at the time was just pointing fingers and did a bunch of "what ifs" without even just a surface level analysis of such what ifs. To me, he was just spamming WIFOM that distracts from the game.

Just realizing that this was posted! Look Piko, LICH KING did mention the kill on dawn dusk. Even gave a little analysis too.

See above.

Hoho, more incredibly profound stuff from pikochu. There is DEFINITELY one scum in half the game (oh yeah maybe a second) and there's another one in the other half that I didn't list! groundbreaking stuff, really.

There's a HUGE, HUGE difference between saying that half the game is scum in general and calling out SPECIFIC players as potential players. What I'm saying is that the players that I listed are probably one (or even two) players that are mafia.

It seems like Pikochu is tripping over his words a bit and his thought process doesn't make much sense.

That's my fault and I should have done a better job communicating my ideas better.

 

[Pikochu]

Will respond to more things, I need to get my tires changed and grab stuff from the store.