Preview M16: ExtremeSpeed Genesect: Mewtwo Awakens

[Silktree]

Whenever Satoshi is thinking to himself during a tournament battle, for example, we hear Matsumoto Rika's voice. His voice doesn't change to some deep man voice when he's full of confidence or to a little kid voice when he's scared. He thinks to himself with the same voice he uses to speak out loud 100% of the time.

Likewise, why shouldn't we expect Myuutwo to think to itself in the same voice it would use to speak?

Because Mewtwo "has actually gone out into the world and expanded its worldview" whereas Ash has barely changed. Not to mention the fact that if you have an actual voice, you have a reference point to use for your inner voice. Mewtwo doesn't speak; it uses telepathy to channel its thoughts.

 

[Dogasu]

Pokemon do speak; they just don't speak human language. I'm sure Myuutwo's inner voice matches the voice it would make if it were to ever scream / cry out.

Just because we never hear Myuutwo speak (though I would argue that there are times when it actually does speak in Super Smash Bros Melee, but that's not really canon to the animated series) doesn't mean that it doesn't have a voice.

 

[Silktree]

Pokemon do speak; they just don't speak human language. I'm sure Myuutwo's inner voice matches the voice it would make if it were to ever scream / cry out.

You call crying out one's name speaking? There is absolutely no telling what Mewtwo would sound like if it stopped communicating telepathically, but I highly doubt it would retain its human voice.

 

[Dogasu]

You call crying out one's name speaking?

You don't?

but I highly doubt it would retain its human voice

What are you basing that doubt on?

 

[Silktree]

You don't?

I don't consider barking to be a way of speaking, either.

What are you basing that doubt on?

Imagine a person that became mute or deaf early on in their life, but not from birth. Since hearing was part of their development, the concept of sound isn't abstract to them. As they grow old, does their inner voice reflect what they would sound like if they could still speak (or hear themselves speak)? Even if they remember what their voice used to sound like when they were very young, that isn't how they would sound like now, and chances are that they adapted a completely different inner voice. Even people that have no disabilities can't hear their real voice unless they listen to a recording of themselves. If anything, their inner voice sounds like the voice that only they can hear, but even that is not necesssarily the case since they can imagine their inner voice to be anything they like.

We saw Mewtwo's birth; it used telepathy from the very beginning, and it never uttered a word using its natural voice. If Mewtwo developed its inner voice before ever hearing itself speak (or rather utter its name), what reason is there to believe that the two voices are anything alike? None.

 

[johnpoke]

You don't?

I don't consider barking to be a way of speaking, either.

What are you basing that doubt on?

Imagine a person that became mute or deaf early on in their life, but not from birth. Since hearing was part of their development, the concept of sound isn't abstract to them. As they grow old, does their inner voice reflect what they would sound like if they could still speak (or hear themselves speak)? Even if they remember what their voice used to sound like when they were very young, that isn't how they would sound like now, and chances are that they adapted a completely different inner voice. Even people that have no disabilities can't hear their real voice unless they listen to a recording of themselves. If anything, their inner voice sounds like the voice that only they can hear, but even that is not necesssarily the case since they can imagine their inner voice to be anything they like.

We saw Mewtwo's birth; it used telepathy from the very beginning, and it never uttered a word using its natural voice. If Mewtwo developed its inner voice before ever hearing itself speak (or rather utter its name), what reason is there to believe that the two voices are anything alike? None.

i have to agree with silktree here

 

[Joshawott]

You don't?

I don't consider barking to be a way of speaking, either.

In animals, them making noises such as barking, growling etc is them communicating, so it's them speaking. We just can't understand what they're saying. All because we can't understand it, it doesn't mean it isn't speech.

To be honest, after this recent update from @Dogasu;'s Backpack, I'm finding it harder to believe that it is the same Mewtwo:

Does Satoshi recognize Myuutwo? We don't know. After seeing Myuutwo for the first time, he says omae wa... (おまえは．．．), or "You're..." Myuutwo then says Watashi wa Myuutsuu (わたしはミュウツー), or "I'm Myuutwo." Later, Satoshi is shocked to learn that Myuutwo was created by humans.

From Ash's dialogue alone, it's not very conclusive and him not knowing could just be similar to how he scans everything in his Pokédex even when he's owned one before. Mewtwo's dialogue though? If it was the same Mewtwo from the first movie and Mewtwo Returns, why would Mewtwo feel the need to reintroduce itself to Ash?

 

[johnpoke]

You don't?

I don't consider barking to be a way of speaking, either.

In animals, them making noises such as barking, growling etc is them communicating, so it's them speaking. We just can't understand what they're saying. All because we can't understand it, it doesn't mean it isn't speech.

To be honest, after this recent update from @Dogasu;'s Backpack, I'm finding it harder to believe that it is the same Mewtwo:

Does Satoshi recognize Myuutwo? We don't know. After seeing Myuutwo for the first time, he says omae wa... (おまえは．．．), or "You're..." Myuutwo then says Watashi wa Myuutsuu (わたしはミュウツー), or "I'm Myuutwo." Later, Satoshi is shocked to learn that Myuutwo was created by humans.

From Ash's dialogue alone, it's not very conclusive and him not knowing could just be similar to how he scans everything in his Pokédex even when he's owned one before. Mewtwo's dialogue though? If it was the same Mewtwo from the first movie and Mewtwo Returns, why would Mewtwo feel the need to reintroduce itself to Ash?

yes but how could there be another mewtwo its not like mew is easy to find let alone allow someone to clone it

i liked the new form but if this mewtwo is a different one there taking messing with a classic way to far

 

[Silktree]

In animals, them making noises such as barking, growling etc is them communicating, so it's them speaking. We just can't understand what they're saying. All because we can't understand it, it doesn't mean it isn't speech.

By definition, animal communication isn't speech, which is the ability to say words. But I really don't see the point of arguing about semantics.

From Ash's dialogue alone, it's not very conclusive and him not knowing could just be similar to how he scans everything in his Pokédex even when he's owned one before. Mewtwo's dialogue though? If it was the same Mewtwo from the first movie and Mewtwo Returns, why would Mewtwo feel the need to reintroduce itself to Ash?

Mewtwo is not just talking to Ash, but also to Iris and Cilan. Besides, we don't know how accurate the manga adaptation is. Since Team Plasma aren't even referenced, there is definitely reason to believe that some dialogue has been omitted or altered.

The trailer, which is also not completely trustworthy, shows that Ash does recognize Mewtwo, even though Cilan doesn't.

 

[Joshawott]

In animals, them making noises such as barking, growling etc is them communicating, so it's them speaking. We just can't understand what they're saying. All because we can't understand it, it doesn't mean it isn't speech.

By definition, animal communication isn't speech. Speech is the ability to say words.

Nope:

the faculty or power of speaking; oral communication; ability to express one's thoughts and emotions by speech sounds and gesture: Losing her speech made her feel isolated from humanity.
2.
the act of speaking: He expresses himself better in speech than in writing.
3.
something that is spoken; an utterance, remark, or declaration: We waited for some speech that would indicate her true feelings.
4.
a form of communication in spoken language, made by a speaker before an audience for a given purpose: a fiery speech.
5.
any single utterance of an actor in the course of a play, motion picture, etc.

Only the fourth point even refers to spoken language, but who says that what sounds animals make aren't words and that they can't understand each other?

From Ash's dialogue alone, it's not very conclusive and him not knowing could just be similar to how he scans everything in his Pokédex even when he's owned one before. Mewtwo's dialogue though? If it was the same Mewtwo from the first movie and Mewtwo Returns, why would Mewtwo feel the need to reintroduce itself to Ash?

Mewtwo is not just talking to Ash, but also to Iris and Cilan. Besides, we don't know how accurate the manga adaptation is. Since Team Plasma aren't even referenced, there is definitely reason to believe that some dialogue has been omitted or altered.

The manga that Dogasu has translated is only from the first 30 minutes or so of the movie, it's more likely that a reference could be in the film later on as opposed to being omitted.

Sure, Cilan and Iris don't know Mewtwo, but if you see a friend of yours with a couple of their friends you don't know, you don't introduce yourself to all three of them as if you've never met your friend before do you? Also, as Ash spoke first, it's reasonable that Mewtwo's attention is focused on Ash, not Cilan or Iris.

The trailer, which is also not completely trustworthy, shows that Ash does recognize while Mewtwo, even though Cilan doesn't.

With trailers, it's hard to take anything they show with a grain of salt, they often show scenes that aren't in the final movie. I'd rather put more faith in the manga adaptation in anything shown in a movie trailer when it comes to the Pokémon franchise.

You don't?

I don't consider barking to be a way of speaking, either.

In animals, them making noises such as barking, growling etc is them communicating, so it's them speaking. We just can't understand what they're saying. All because we can't understand it, it doesn't mean it isn't speech.

To be honest, after this recent update from @Dogasu;'s Backpack, I'm finding it harder to believe that it is the same Mewtwo:

Does Satoshi recognize Myuutwo? We don't know. After seeing Myuutwo for the first time, he says omae wa... (おまえは．．．), or "You're..." Myuutwo then says Watashi wa Myuutsuu (わたしはミュウツー), or "I'm Myuutwo." Later, Satoshi is shocked to learn that Myuutwo was created by humans.

From Ash's dialogue alone, it's not very conclusive and him not knowing could just be similar to how he scans everything in his Pokédex even when he's owned one before. Mewtwo's dialogue though? If it was the same Mewtwo from the first movie and Mewtwo Returns, why would Mewtwo feel the need to reintroduce itself to Ash?

yes but how could there be another mewtwo its not like mew is easy to find let alone allow someone to clone it

i liked the new form but if this mewtwo is a different one there taking messing with a classic way to far

It's been shown time and time again that in the anime, multiple of various legendary Pokémon exist. There could very easily be another Mewtwo in the story, just as it has been shown that there at least two Mew.

 

[Silktree]

Only the fourth point even refers to spoken language, but who says that what sounds animals make aren't words and that they can't understand each other?

That isn't the point. Like it or not, the words referred to by humans is that of the human language. That is why the term of talking animals is used in reference to unique animals (rather than species) that can mimic the human language.

You can use your own definitions (or pretend that the dictionary definitions also refer to animals), but don't expect other people to conform to your usage. As I said, this is just semantics.

The manga that Dogasu has translated is only from the first 30 minutes or so of the movie, it's more likely that a reference could be in the film later on as opposed to being omitted.

I highly doubt that Team Plasma will only be brought up after the first 30 minutes, especially as they're only relevant to the prologue. Genesect's creation is addressed in the first chapter, but in a generic way that leaves out Team Plasma. I doubt that will be the case in the movie.

With trailers, it's hard to take anything they show with a grain of salt, they often show scenes that aren't in the final movie. I'd rather put more faith in the manga adaptation in anything shown in a movie trailer when it comes to the Pokémon franchise.

You shouldn't put faith in the manga, either.

 

[Joshawott]

Only the fourth point even refers to spoken language, but who says that what sounds animals make aren't words and that they can't understand each other?

That isn't the point. Like it or not, the words referred to by humans is that of the human language. That is why talking animals are only unique animals (rather than species) that can mimic the human language.

Notice that I didn't say "words" - I said "communication" and "speech". Besides, all I'm saying is all because we cannot understand animals or that their sounds do not appear to fit into the complicated linguistics we have, doesn't mean other animals can't. Thus, we cannot say it isn't speech.

You can use your own definitions (or pretend that the dictionary definitions also refer to animals), but don't expect other people to conform to your usage. As I said, this is just semantics.

Or you can pretend that the dictionary definition doesn't apply to animals and somehow expect other people to conform to your usage, just to fit your crackpot theory of telepathic voices changing because you won't admit that there's a good chance this isn't the same Mewtwo. Notice how the dictionary definition does not tie any definition exclusively to humans.

The manga that Dogasu has translated is only from the first 30 minutes or so of the movie, it's more likely that a reference could be in the film later on as opposed to being omitted.

I highly doubt that Team Plasma will only be brought up after the first 30 minutes, especially as they're only relevant to the prologue. Genesect's creation is addressed in the first chapter, but in a generic way that leaves out Team Plasma. I doubt that will be the case in the movie.

I guess you'll just have to wait until the other 60-odd minutes surface then? It could very easily be brought up again.

With trailers, it's hard to take anything they show with a grain of salt, they often show scenes that aren't in the final movie. I'd rather put more faith in the manga adaptation in anything shown in a movie trailer when it comes to the Pokémon franchise.

You shouldn't put faith in the manga, either.

The manga has a better track record than the initial trailers.

 

[Silktree]

Notice that I didn't say "words" - I said "communication" and "speech".

You also said: "Only the fourth point even refers to spoken language, but who says that what sounds animals make aren't words and that they can't understand each other?"

Besides, all I'm saying is all because we cannot understand animals or that their sounds do not appear to fit into the complicated linguistics we have, doesn't mean other animals can't. Thus, we cannot say it isn't speech.

We can't say with any certainty that it is speech, either. So this entire discussion is silly.

Or you can pretend that the dictionary definition doesn't apply to animals and somehow expect other people to conform to your usage, just to fit your crackpot theory of telepathic voices changing because you won't admit that there's a good chance this isn't the same Mewtwo.

You're the one forcing the linguistics discussion; it has nothing do with any theory about Mewtwo. If you think that my interpretation of telepathy is wrong, by all means, enlighten me. But you haven't done that at all.

And I have admitted that this may not be the same Mewtwo. That doesn't mean that I agree with the people who have already made up their minds that it isn't just because of the voice.

Notice how the dictionary definition does not tie any definition exclusively to humans.

From this page: speech - the mental faculty or power of vocal communication; "language sets homo sapiens apart from all other animals"

I guess you'll just have to wait until the other 60-odd minutes surface then? It could very easily be brought up again.

40 minutes, and I really don't see why it would. Team Rocket were only referenced in the prologue of Movie 1, and we can already tell that no Plasma character will appear in the movie. More importantly, I don't see why the first 30 minutes would include a reference to Genesect's creation without bringing up Team Plasma, who are definitely not supposed to be mysterious.

The manga has a better track record than the initial trailers.

The recent trailer is hardly an initial one; we're only three months away from the premiere. Such trailers tend to be reliable.

 

[Joshawott]

And I have admitted that this may not be the same Mewtwo. That doesn't mean that I agree with the people who have already made up their minds that it isn't just because of the voice.

And yet you somehow seem to think it's a fact that a telepathic voice can change simply based on the emotion of the user, which there is no evidence of. Every Pokémon that has ever spoken using telepathy in the history of the anime has used the same voice. Even Shaymin, which went through an extensive forme change, kept its voice.
If it was the same Mewtwo, then why couldn't they just get the old voice actor back, or failing that, get a sound-alike or another masculine voice? It doesn't make any sense to completely swap the tone and gender of a voice. In regards to your theory on it changing due to Mewtwo's awakening or whatever, then how come it has the female voice in its ordinary form? And is the concept even one that the target audience (grade school kids) would be able to comprehend?

Notice how the dictionary definition does not tie any definition exclusively to humans.

From this page: speech - the mental faculty or power of vocal communication; "language sets homo sapiens apart from all other animals"

And the Oxford English Dictionary says nothing about it being exclusive to humans either. Notice how the quote you used says language, not speech - two very different things. As for how this discussion is relevant...actually it was you and Dogasu debating it first in relation to what Mewtwo's voice would sound like if it could verbalise its thoughts as opposed to speaking through telepathy, so I'm certainly not forcing it. You were trying to say that a Pokémon only being able to say its own name doesn't count as speech and that you wouldn't consider a dog barking to be speech. But you are right in that it's gone off track from the main discussion.

I guess you'll just have to wait until the other 60-odd minutes surface then? It could very easily be brought up again.

40 minutes, and I really don't see why it would. Team Rocket were only referenced in the prologue of Movie 1, and we can already tell that no Plasma character will appear in the movie. More importantly, I don't see why the first 30 minutes would include a reference to Genesect's creation without bringing up Team Plasma, who are definitely not supposed to be mysterious.

Maybe the reason they didn't get a mention then is because the fans are pretty much supposed to know Team Plasma made Genesect? I mean, the Pokémon's Pokédex data screams it, as do the brief references in Episode N.

The manga has a better track record than the initial trailers.

The recent trailer is hardly an initial one; we're only three months away from the premiere. Such trailers tend to be reliable.

The initial teaser of the Zoroark movie had Lugia and Ho-Oh and a later trailer had Zoroark turning into what fans dubbed an "Evil Ash" - even trailers released later down the line can have things not in themovie. The dialogue trailer and the manga seem to clash, which means that one of them isn't the same as the movie - but we'll only be able to say for sure once the movie has actually come out.

 

[Silktree]

And yet you somehow seem to think it's a fact that a telepathic voice can change simply based on the emotion of the user, which there is no evidence of. Every Pokémon that has ever spoken using telepathy in the history of the anime has used the same voice. Even Shaymin, which went through an extensive forme change, kept its voice.
If it was the same Mewtwo, then why couldn't they just get the old voice actor back, or failing that, get a sound-alike or another masculine voice? It doesn't make any sense to completely swap the tone and gender of a voice. In regards to your theory on it changing due to Mewtwo's awakening or whatever, then how come it has the female voice in its ordinary form?

Mewtwo's change isn't limited to the new form. We know from the movie blog that Mewtwo has changed its worldview and has become more empathetic, which is why it makes sense that its inner voice would no longer be that of a menacing man. No Pokémon has gone through such a change, much less Shaymin whose transformation had nothing to do with philosophy.

And is the concept even one that the target audience (grade school kids) would be able to comprehend?

I should hope so. It is hardly rocket science.

actually it was you and Dogasu debating it first in relation to what Mewtwo's voice would sound like if it could verbalise its thoughts as opposed to speaking through telepathy, so I'm certainly not forcing it. You were trying to say that a Pokémon only being able to say its own name doesn't count as speech and that you wouldn't consider a dog barking to be speech. But you are right in that it's gone off track from the main discussion.

You were forcing it, but I shall say no more on the subject.

Maybe the reason they didn't get a mention then is because the fans are pretty much supposed to know Team Plasma made Genesect? I mean, the Pokémon's Pokédex data screams it, as do the brief references in Episode N.

Really now? Then by that logic Team Plasma won't be mentioned at all because there is no point to it, and Mewtwo won't mention its past because even young viewers will already know about it from watching the rerun.

The initial teaser of the Zoroark movie had Lugia and Ho-Oh and a later trailer had Zoroark turning into what fans dubbed an "Evil Ash" - even trailers released later down the line can have things not in themovie.

The trailer from April 2010, which is the one relevant to the discussion, only showed scenes from the actual movie. The manga adaptation, on the other hand, drastically reduced the legendary beasts' role.

 

[Joshawott]

And yet you somehow seem to think it's a fact that a telepathic voice can change simply based on the emotion of the user, which there is no evidence of. Every Pokémon that has ever spoken using telepathy in the history of the anime has used the same voice. Even Shaymin, which went through an extensive forme change, kept its voice.
If it was the same Mewtwo, then why couldn't they just get the old voice actor back, or failing that, get a sound-alike or another masculine voice? It doesn't make any sense to completely swap the tone and gender of a voice. In regards to your theory on it changing due to Mewtwo's awakening or whatever, then how come it has the female voice in its ordinary form?

Mewtwo's change isn't limited to the new form. We know from the movie blog that Mewtwo has changed its worldview and has become more empathetic, which is why it makes sense that its inner voice would no longer be that of a menacing man. No Pokémon has gone through such a change, much less Shaymin whose transformation had nothing to do with philosophy.

How does that make any sense? A change in philosophy? So if I suddenly change my mind on something, will my voice change? Or more importantly, does the voice inside my head change depending on my mood? No. There's no evidence to suggest whatsoever that Mewtwo's emotional state affects the gender of its voice. What we do know is, Mewtwo has an entirely different voice than the one that appeared in movie 1, that when flashing back to Mewtwo's origin there is no reference at all to Team Rocket or Dr. Fuji and at least according to the manga, Mewtwo feels the need to introduce itself to Ash, who should already know about it.

Maybe if when Mewtwo first appeared in the movie, it had Masachika Ichimura's voice, then when it reverts into its new form it had the new one, but we've seen Mewtwo speaking with the new voice in its original form. Even if it is a philosophical change as well, you would expect the transformation to be shown to actually y'know, show it. To have it tied into the form change to make it obvious.

And is the concept even one that the target audience (grade school kids) would be able to comprehend?

I should hope so. It is hardly rocket science.

Maybe for a grown man, but to an 8 year old kid?

Maybe the reason they didn't get a mention then is because the fans are pretty much supposed to know Team Plasma made Genesect? I mean, the Pokémon's Pokédex data screams it, as do the brief references in Episode N.

Really now? Then by that logic Team Plasma won't be mentioned at all because there is no point to it, and Mewtwo won't mention its past because even young viewers will already know about it from watching the rerun.

A rerun of something over 16 years old is different to a current event, but who knows? We'll have to wait until the movie comes out to tell, but at the moment there's no sign of any mention of Team Rocket, Mr. Fuji or Team Plasma.

The initial teaser of the Zoroark movie had Lugia and Ho-Oh and a later trailer had Zoroark turning into what fans dubbed an "Evil Ash" - even trailers released later down the line can have things not in themovie.

The trailer from April 2010, which is the one relevant to the discussion, only showed scenes from the actual movie. The manga adaptation, on the other hand, drastically reduced the legendary beasts' role.

Let's be honest...the beasts had pretty much no role at all in the actual movie. They were just there.

I swear...with Gen VI as a whole, TPC have realised they can give us as little information as they can because they enjoy watching us go mad debating it xD

 

[Silktree]

How does that make any sense? A change in philosophy? So if I suddenly change my mind on something, will my voice change? Or more importantly, does the voice inside my head change depending on my mood? No.

I have to say that I feel a little sorry for you if that's what you think. Inner voice is all about one's perception of oneself.

There's no evidence to suggest whatsoever that Mewtwo's emotional state affects the gender of its voice.

A voice doesn't have a gender, and Mewtwo itself is genderless. That said, it is possible that a female VA was chosen for the role since women pull off the calm, kindhearted protector role more convincingly.

What we do know is, Mewtwo has an entirely different voice than the one that appeared in movie 1, that when flashing back to Mewtwo's origin there is no reference at all to Team Rocket or Dr. Fuji and at least according to the manga, Mewtwo feels the need to introduce itself to Ash, who should already know about it.

We also know that this Mewtwo has changed its worldview and that we are supposed to compare it to the original Mewtwo to understand how it surpassed its past limitations. And if we're going with circumstantial evidence, Ash recognizes Mewtwo in the most recent trailer, which is as reliable as the manga adaptation is.

Even if it is a philosophical change as well, you would expect the transformation to be shown to actually y'know, show it. To have it tied into the form change to make it obvious.

No. Mewtwo's change in behavior is not limited to the awakened form.

Maybe for a grown man, but to an 8 year old kid?

Yes. If the movie makes it clear that this is the same Mewtwo, kids will grasp the idea of the telepathic voice reflecting inner changes. I don't think that this is a lot more complex than the idea that genetically engineered clones have a right to exist.

Let's be honest...the beasts had pretty much no role at all in the actual movie. They were just there.

Their role was a lot more significant than what the manga adaptation would have had us believe.

 

[Midnight Blue]

A different Mewtwo is something I'll have to get used to but I'm wondering if it was not created by Team Rocket, what are the chances that someone created this one where it looks the same and was given the same name too?

 

[Joshawott]

How does that make any sense? A change in philosophy? So if I suddenly change my mind on something, will my voice change? Or more importantly, does the voice inside my head change depending on my mood? No.

I have to say that I feel a little sorry for you if that's what you think. Inner voice is all about one's perception of oneself.

*sigh* I mean, the way the voice inside someone's head sounds, not some higher philosophical crap. If I thought "I think killing is wrong", it would sound exactly the same as "killing people is fun" - doesn't matter which extreme of something I think, the voice thinking it will sound the same.

There's no evidence to suggest whatsoever that Mewtwo's emotional state affects the gender of its voice.

A voice doesn't have a gender, and Mewtwo itself is genderless. That said, it is possible that a female VA was chosen for the role since women pull off the calm, kindhearted protector role more convincingly.

So it's only just coincidence then that guys tend to have deeper voices and women tend to have higher pitched voices then? 9.9. Do you honestly expect for there to be such a vague, abstract symbol for someone's change in philosophy in a film targeted at people more than half our ages? At least the Mewtwo and Genesect being created artificially thing is obvious.

What we do know is, Mewtwo has an entirely different voice than the one that appeared in movie 1, that when flashing back to Mewtwo's origin there is no reference at all to Team Rocket or Dr. Fuji and at least according to the manga, Mewtwo feels the need to introduce itself to Ash, who should already know about it.

We also know that this Mewtwo has changed its worldview and that we are supposed to compare it to the original Mewtwo to understand how it surpassed its past limitations. And if we're going with circumstantial evidence, Ash recognizes Mewtwo in the most recent trailer, which is as reliable as the manga adaptation is.

But we don't know if the comparison is in the case of "This Mewtwo was a dick, but this one isn't" or "Mewtwo used to be a dick, but now isn't" because we have yet to have a firm yes or no answer on if this is the same Mewtwo or not.

Even if it is a philosophical change as well, you would expect the transformation to be shown to actually y'know, show it. To have it tied into the form change to make it obvious.

No. Mewtwo's change in behavior is not limited to the awakened form.

I thought it was pretty obvious that the awakened form happens because of the change? What I mean is, it would make more sense if Mewtwo's new voice was a part of the change that these new ideals bought on, as "part" of the form.

Maybe for a grown man, but to an 8 year old kid?

Yes. If the movie makes it clear that this is the same Mewtwo, kids will grasp the idea of the telepathic voice reflecting inner changes. I don't think that this is a lot more complex than the idea that genetically engineered clones have a right to exist.

Except it wouldn't show the change, so kids won't be able to link the reasoning behind it to that.

Let's be honest...the beasts had pretty much no role at all in the actual movie. They were just there.

Their role was a lot more significant than what the manga adaptation would have had us believe.

And in the movie it was pretty much nothing at all anyway.

 

[FANG-TAN]

I'm... not going to address the total rape of science and physical anthropology in the discussion seen a few posts above. In fact, I'll just ignore it.

But I will say here as a reminder that the term, in Pokemon, for what is commonly referred to as "genderless" is Gender Unknown (referred to in the Japanese games as seibetsufumei, which means Sex Unknown). It's not the same as "lacking a Gender" or "lacking a Sex" (note that sex and gender are two different concepts, but the Japanese term sei doesn't differentiate this; in this context, since it's a term used in relation to breeding, it would be "Sex").