1. As Bulbagarden aims to be a safe place for everyone, please take your time to read a note on harrassment on Bulbagarden.
  2. Bring your favorite pen to write your shipper heart out for Shippers' Paradise's first Short Story and Poetry Competition! Find the rules and further information in this thread
  3. Maniacal Engineer stopped being lazy and finally made a third episode of Bulbacast BTS. You can watch it right here.

POTW: Pokémon of the Week #24: Rattata & Raticate

Discussion in 'General Pokémon Discussion' started by Life, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. Life

    Life oh my

    Blog Posts:
    12
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,719
    Likes Received:
    865
    In the World of Pokémon, there lives a vast number and variety of amazing creatures to befriend and collect. Every week, we will be focusing on a single one of these Pokémon or evolutionary line and talking about what makes it special. This week's Pokémon of choice is the Rattata line!

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Starting the trend for early-game rodent Pokémon (and memes, of course), Rattata stands out for being the very first, and also the only one to receive an Alolan form. Both Kantonian and Alolan Rattata are found on Route 1 in Kanto and Alola respectively, however, A-Rattata is special in that it can only be found at night, due to its territorial battle with Yungoos. In fact, having to do most of its work at night to avoid Yungoos is actually how Rattata developed its Alolan form!

    Now, A-Rattata is able to receive STAB on moves like Crunch and Sucker Punch, giving it added attack power. In Pokémon Moon version, its power is shown off in the first trial, held in Verdant Cavern, where the player must battle two A-Rattata and one Alolan Raticate before facing off against one totem Alolan Raticate.

    A-Raticate, notably, lives in cities and urban areas instead of grassy fields. Due to the change, it eats only the freshest and best ingredients, and some chefs have even used A-Raticate's taste buds to help them test dishes! When it's not eating however, A-Raticate also lead over packs of A-Rattata. A-Raticate also differs in stat-distribution, overall being more bulkier than Kantonian Raticate with added HP and Defense, despite having lowered Attack and Speed stats. Perhaps all that extra weight had something to do with it? However, back in Kanto, K-Raticate seem to enjoy themselves much in the same fashion, by finding food to eat!

    It's also notable to talk about the FEAR tactic, commonly used with Rattata, that involves a Focus Sash and the moves Endeavor and Quick Attack. A simple but effective strategy, Rattata surprised lots of people with its ability to take out foes who perhaps just weren't paying enough attention, or didn't have a counter planned!

    Here are some questions to consider to get conversation rolling. You don't have to answer all of them or any of them in your post as long as you're staying on topic and within global forum rules.
    • Do you like or dislike these Pokémon? Why?
    • How are these Pokémon in-game?
    • How are these Pokémon in competitive play? Are there any interesting strategies you like to use for them?
    • Do you like these Pokémon's representation in the anime? Are there any moments or qualities in particular you enjoy/dislike?
    • How do you think these Pokémon would interact with our world?
    • If given the power to, would you change anything about these Pokémon, and if so, what would you change?
    • How does Rattata compare to other early-game rodent Pokémon?
    • Are you happy with Alolan Rattata's new type? Are there any other ideas you think would have been better?
    • How does Alolan Rattata compare against other Alolan forms?
    If you have any suggestions for Pokémon you'd like to discuss in the future just leave your ideas at the bottom of your post. Make sure you give your thoughts about the current Pokémon first!

    Previous Pokémon of the Week:
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2016
  2. Zexy

    Zexy Fire Chicken

    Blog Posts:
    6
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2012
    Messages:
    19,508
    Likes Received:
    6,116
    Do you like or dislike these Pokémon? Why?
    I sure do. In between Youngster Joey, FEAR, Alolan Form (and its reference to Ratatouille) as well as the appearance in Verdant Cavern, I sure like these Pokemon.
    How are these Pokémon in-game?
    Not very good, unfortunately. However Pokemon Moon's first trial is really interesting.
    How are these Pokémon in competitive play? Are there any interesting strategies you like to use for them?
    The only viable strategy is FEAR, but even it is risky.
    Do you like these Pokémon's representation in the anime? Are there any moments or qualities in particular you enjoy/dislike?
    I don't remember many of its appearances, there was a nice one in the very first episode, though.
    How do you think these Pokémon would interact with our world?
    Most people would dislike them just like lots of people dislike rats. A-Raticate, however, would be indeed used as a taste tester in restaurants.
    If given the power to, would you change anything about these Pokémon, and if so, what would you change?
    Hard question; better stats and Ability would work. I like how Alolan Form has a Dark typing as well (despite it giving it a 4x weakness to Fighting) but the bulkier stat distribution I don't like too much... yet it fits the design, so I'm OK with it I guess.
    How does Rattata compare to other early-game rodent Pokémon?
    I like it more than Sentret. Not more than Linoone, though (not sure if that counts as a rodent, but it sure is early-game Normal-type). I like Raticate more than Bibarel, but Bidoof's niche is nicer than Rattata's, by a small margin. I like Lillipup's line more (even though that's definitely not a rodent, but still early-game Normal-type). I don't like the Bunnelby line as much as Rattata. The Yungoos line is cool in that it has some great Attack, but since Rattata got an Alolan form to compare with it, I'd have them tied.
    Are you happy with Alolan Rattata's new type? Are there any other ideas you think would have been better?
    I sure am happy with the Dark-type, it fits it. Perhaps something other than Normal could help, but that may be too much of a change. The only thing I don't like is that 4x weakness to Fighting...
    How does Alolan Rattata compare against other Alolan forms?
    I find it hard to compare Alolan forms to each other... they are just so many and diverse I see little point. I sure like it more than Meowth/Persian who are a similar case.
     
  3. Beth Pavell

    Beth Pavell Thesaurus rex

    Blog Posts:
    409
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,105
    Likes Received:
    1,114
    I find Rattata among the least annoying of the poké-pests. The Alolan form is rather amusing, though I wish it weren't standing on its hind legs in the game. One of the appeals of these species now is how relatively natural they look, something that the inexplicable choice to pull it upright detracts from.

    Rattata is my go-to species for challenging the fairly common fanon assumption that pokémon would inevitably out-compete any other kind of animal into extinction. It's all about ecological niches. If there's any kind of way for a species to survive, any untapped method of living, then something will survive doing just that. And there are an amazingly huge number of ways for species to survive

    With that in mind, I ask the question - what does a Rattata do better than an ordinary rat, say Rattus rattus? The obvious answer is that it's better able to defend itself and much better at recovering from injury. But it's also significantly bigger than R. rattus, it may breed more slowly (Pure speculation either way since the Pokédex only says that it breeds constantly), and similarly it's not certain that it can eat as wide a variety of foods. So there's an argument to be made that R. rattus could live where Rattata can't, where space, food, and competition are too limited for Rattata but fine for a small creature with a short life expectancy.
     
  4. Gengarzilla

    Gengarzilla "You thought Dugtrio and Magnezone were asshats?"

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2012
    Messages:
    2,973
    Likes Received:
    2,654
    • Do you like or dislike these Pokémon? Why?
    It doesn't qualify for either since I barely remember this thing exists.

    • How are these Pokémon in-game?
    Never used one, don't plan to.

    • How are these Pokémon in competitive play? Are there any interesting strategies you like to use for them?
    Standard Raticate got a small buff with burns doing less damage, meaning that it can now use Guts a bit better. Alolan Raticate has no such saving grace. FEAR is better used by the likes of Aron nowadays, Rattata only started the craze. Original isn't best by default imo.

    • Do you like these Pokémon's representation in the anime? Are there any moments or qualities in particular you enjoy/dislike?
    Aside from the Raticate Ash briefly owned, I don't remember anything else.

    • How do you think these Pokémon would interact with our world?
    Exactly the same way they do in the Pokémon world.

    • If given the power to, would you change anything about these Pokémon, and if so, what would you change?
    So, so much...

    • How does Rattata compare to other early-game rodent Pokémon?
    Bunnelby and Zigzagoon are better, but it definitely beats Sentret.

    • Are you happy with Alolan Rattata's new type? Are there any other ideas you think would have been better?
    Dark's perfect for a Pokémon associated with gluttony.

    • How does Alolan Rattata compare against other Alolan forms?
    Probably one of the worst, if not the worst altogether. That unique type combo is wasted on it.

    Speaking of early-game Pokémon, I'd like to talk about the Starly line soon.
     
  5. PinkIceFox

    PinkIceFox PinkIceTales!

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    2,361
    Do you like or dislike these Pokémon? Why?
    I love their designs. They my little ratty friends. Raticate is so chubby and adorable I love it.
    How are these Pokémon in-game?
    Regular Raticate made a good HM Slave. Once in Soul Silver I took Whitney down with one alone. Oh Rattina, I don't remember how we did it but bless you.
    Do you like these Pokémon's representation in the anime? Are there any moments or qualities in particular you enjoy/dislike?
    Ratata tried to steal from Ash in the very first episode. Pokedex implied he was stupid. Adult me still laughs. You keep stealing from dumb kids, precious.
    How do you think these Pokémon would interact with our world?
    Pests. Would be hunted. I would be very sad. Grandpa would probably poison them.
    If given the power to, would you change anything about these Pokémon, and if so, what would you change?
    Let regular Raticate close its mouth. Jesus it looks like its teeth have grown too much and now it's gonna have jaw problems if not outright having it's jaw come unhinged.
    How does Rattata compare to other early-game rodent Pokémon?
    I've used it the most. So pretty well, I'd say.
    Are you happy with Alolan Rattata's new type? Are there any other ideas you think would have been better?
    It looks like a little bandit! Look at that lil cutie pie! Who's an evil little robber? Ratata is! Dark type suits it!
    How does Alolan Rattata compare against other Alolan forms?
    Well I didn't use it in my playthrough. I wanted to use Alolan Meowth instead. Considering that meowth evolved and helped me become champion I'd say the alolan rats are okay but I wasn't that interested in battling with them.
     
  6. CrystaI

    CrystaI The Pokemon Observer

    Blog Posts:
    8
    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    590
    Not much to add to the discussion as I don't have any specific thought to this evolution line of Pokemon. Only regarding on the question of "How do you think these Pokémon would interact with our world?", I just immediately thought of something when I read the Alolan Raticate pokedex entries:
    It is the Pokemon version of Ratatouille
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Lyrebird

    Lyrebird Goddess

    Blog Posts:
    18
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    9,265
    Likes Received:
    1,216
    • Do you like or dislike these Pokémon? Why?
    Amazing Pokemon cause amazing.
    • How are these Pokémon in-game?
    Amazing.
    • How are these Pokémon in competitive play? Are there any interesting strategies you like to use for them?
    idk
    • Do you like these Pokémon's representation in the anime? Are there any moments or qualities in particular you enjoy/dislike?
    idk.
    • How do you think these Pokémon would interact with our world?
    idk.
    • If given the power to, would you change anything about these Pokémon, and if so, what would you change?
    More of them.
    • How does Rattata compare to other early-game rodent Pokémon?
    Better.
    • Are you happy with Alolan Rattata's new type? Are there any other ideas you think would have been better?
    No. It ruined the Rattataness. Should have left it alone. :(
    • How does Alolan Rattata compare against other Alolan forms?
    Eh.
     
  8. SirOni

    SirOni Driving You Batty

    Blog Posts:
    1
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    1,071
    For the first ever regional critter, or whatever you wanna call them, Rattata has really made a good showing. It has decent attack for the stage of the game it is available and some nice STAB moves early on such as Quick Attack and Hyper Fang. It has even further showcased its usefulness by one of the first captures that can learn Dark-type moves as well as later on by learning handy utility and HM moves such as Super Fang, Dig, Surf, and Strength. The line's diverse move pool has really done wonders for it and the addition of the Guts ability has also let it see some competitive play.

    I really love what Gamefreak did with Alolan Rattata and Raticate. It's a great use of a real world phenomenon transformed into a game mechanic. The little lore about Rattata thieving for their Raticate boss goes really the detective motif Gumshoos has. It's pretty cool how it portray a sort of rodent crime war though a direct analog does waiver a bit since the good guy is out to eat the bad guy.

    I've seen people suggest that the Raticate line should have been retyped to Dark-type long before the existence of the Alolan forms. I don't really feel that sentiment myself. Rattata and Raticate do learn a number of Dark-type moves naturally but I feel that they themselves don't really embody the type's attributes. There behavior isn't that dastardly or conniving and is really more animalistic I would say which is an alright fit for its Normal-typing.
     
  9. Zeb

    Zeb what is your spaghetti policy here?

    Blog Posts:
    40
    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,563
    Likes Received:
    6,224
    I absolutely adore the Alolan forms for these two. I never cared for the line, but now I would say Alolan Raticate is one of my favourite Pokemon. Along with Exeggutor and Marowak, it's in my top three favourite Alolan forms. It's just adorably chubby-cheeked, and I consider its design a straight upgrade over the original in both likability and personality. Plus the Dark/Normal typing makes it feel a little bit more interesting than pure Normal, which we have more than enough of. I also really like the relationship the line has with Yungoos and Gumshoos. We need more interactions like that, and others like Corsola and Mareanie. It just makes the world feel more connected rather than separate.

    The complaints about Alolan Raticate's typing are overblown and pointless, since there's no way regular Raticate was living a Fighting move anyway, with its 55/60/70 defences, so a 4x weakness to Fighting makes no real difference to its survivability there. Dark STAB, especially alongside Normal for Dark resists like Fairy, Dark and Fighting, is also really good. Put Dark/Normal into this coverage calculator and you'll see what I mean. It's currently only resisted by 15 Pokemon in the entire game (this includes NFEs and Megas) which is really good. If you play the lower tiers of Smogon (where it will obviously end up) then Carbink, regular Mawile and Diancie are the only things that will resist both Dark and Normal that are likely to be available.

    Dark/Normal also allows it to be immune to Ghost and Psychic moves, meaning it can possibly be a decent user of Pursuit provided they don't have Fighting coverage. Between Pursuit and Sucker Punch, it sorta would force them into a mindgame of whether to try and switch or stay in and attack. It's still an early route mammal, and outside of Huge Power Diggersby none of them are particularly spectacular, so people shouldn't really expect the world from them. Although Bibarel is looking a lot better this generation...

    It's just a shame Hustle causes it to be unreliable at hitting, despite it having somewhere around base 130 Attack with the Hustle boost factored in. I used one on my Sun team to playthrough, and it was a little frustrating at times how often it missed, in the end I found a Wide Lens and put that on it and it was much better for the rest of the game. With Hustle it's really not that different from Absol stat-wise. It ends up being: Raticate 75/~130/70/40/80/77 vs Absol 65/130/60/75/60/75. It trades its moves accuracy for better bulk and slightly more Speed. I feel like Adaptability would have been a much, much better ability if they wanted to make Raticate really good, but Hustle isn't absolutely awful. Shame it doesn't learn Hone Claws. Adaptability would also pair nicely with Gumshoos which also has it, since both of them have adapted to each other and their predator-prey relationship.

    Kind of a boring post to most I guess, since I focus so much on its battle usuability. And I don't have much to say about regular Raticate since it's kinda just there to me and not all that interesting.
     
  10. RTLfan

    RTLfan Member

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    58
    I find them cute even though their face looks vicious.
     
  11. Camille

    Camille Call of Fate

    Blog Posts:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    100
    I don't like regular Rattata/Raticate much, both because they have boring designs and are annoying early-game thanks to their Speed and Hyper Fang. Guts is definitely a good ability, especially with STAB Facade, but it is still outclassed by Pokemon like Swellow. I find the fact they can learn Flame Wheel by breeding pretty cool, though. Zigzagoon and Sentret are better early-game mammalian Pokemon, from my experience.
    I find Alolan Rattata a bit more interesting design-wise, but Faticate looks hideous to me. I like their backstory and a reference to real-life rats avoiding mongooses, but that's it, sadly. Faticate also has even worse stat distribution, with lower Attack and Speed, and its typing makes it even weaker to Fighting attacks.
    I remember Ash trading his Butterfree for a Raticate in an early OS episode and then trading it back. Cassidy also used one, but it isn't saying much since I've never liked her (or Butch, for that matter) as a character.
     
  12. Revenge of the Boyega

    Revenge of the Boyega Dancing With Myself

    Blog Posts:
    10
    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    632
    I love Ratata. He reminds me so intensely of Pokemon Stadium which was basically the Pokemon game of my childhood, and his design is simplistic but awesome. I used to be dismissive of Raticate, but after seeing Alolan Raticate... I've warmed to the original form. Of course, the newcomers are still cool. A-Ratata are epic, but A-Raticate is a little too pudgy for me. But I'm spectacularly capricious, so I'll probably be changing my mind in the next few seconds. One... two... three...

    Whoa Alolan Raticate is awesome
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.