Pokémon Remake Discussion (Read First Post!)

[Xenidal]

If they play the exact same role then it does seem kind of like it was retconned. Although it sounds like a pointless one, this wouldn't be the first time they've done so.

None of these grunts have a real role to speak of; their cameo appearances only serve to reference the old, now-disbanded teams. Since the Team Rocket grunt served his purpose in Black and White, he was replaced (but not retconned out of existence) in the sequels to avoid repetition. I fail to see how this makes the timeline vague; there are other NPCs in Unova that have left their houses for the sake of change.

Cameo appearance or not, it's still part of the canon. Now, I've never played Black2/White2 so maybe I'd have to see it in context, but it's one thing for them to just get rid of the Rocket guy because he served his purpose (which you are suggesting) and another thing to replace him with an almost identical character (which suggesta a retcon).

 

[The Outrage]

Cameo appearance or not, it's still part of the canon. Now, I've never played Black2/White2 so maybe I'd have to see it in context, but it's one thing for them to just get rid of the Rocket guy because he served his purpose (which you are suggesting) and another thing to replace him with an almost identical character (which suggesta a retcon).

You realize this is a sequel right? It's like saying all the stuff they left out or replaced in GSC Kanto was no longer canon. People move houses. There is a house on Village Bridge that constantly gets different couples visiting it considering whether to buy it or not. The Rocket Grunt clearly moved from Kanto to Unova. Yet its so much easier to believe a character who has existed in multiple games and three generations has been retconned out of existence, than it is to say "they moved"?

The Rocket Grunt wasn't replaced by an almost identical character, their roles are similar, but its just like how every Professor has the "same role" but didn't retcon the previous one out of existence. It's nowhere near comparable to things like Dude having his role replaced by Ethan or Lyra in the remakes, and then not existing. The fact that these games are sequels means their canons do not contradict. It's not as if they're taking the same exact role in an updated version of the game. There are two years between their roles, they aren't occupying the same point in space-time that makes their mutual existence incompatible.

 

[4fghan]

The Rocket grunt leaving Unova is a hint.
POKEMON FORESTLEAFGREEN AND VOLCANOFIRERED.
/Joke over

 

[Jolty94]

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to compare the hard facts that are there in all the 5th Gen games? For example; there's only one Pokémon that was created when they introduced the 3rd Generation that had relation to a Pokémon from another Generation, which was Azuril. That is the only flaw of the fact that 5th Gen and 3rd have a lot in common. For example, the idea of not connecting the Pokémon in them to other previous generations by Evolution or baby form, except Azuril, again. Another interesting fact; they brought Dive back, it doesn't have much use in BW, which hints that it must mean they set up for R/S remakes if anything. So everything is available if they choose to.

I personally think it would be a great decision for them, especially for 2013, as it will mark the 10th Anniversary of the original R/S. Plus, who doesn't love Hoenn?

 

[Saiga]

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to compare the hard facts that are there in all the 5th Gen games? For example; there's only one Pokémon that was created when they introduced the 3rd Generation that had relation to a Pokémon from another Generation, which was Azuril. That is the only flaw of the fact that 5th Gen and 3rd have a lot in common. For example, the idea of not connecting the Pokémon in them to other previous generations by Evolution or baby form, except Azuril, again. Another interesting fact; they brought Dive back, it doesn't have much use in BW, which hints that it must mean they set up for R/S remakes if anything. So everything is available if they choose to.

I personally think it would be a great decision for them, especially for 2013, as it will mark the 10th Anniversary of the original R/S. Plus, who doesn't love Hoenn?

You're forgetting Wynaut

 

[Xenidal]

I personally think it would be a great decision for them, especially for 2013, as it will mark the 10th Anniversary of the original R/S. Plus, who doesn't love Hoenn?

Tenth anniversary? Has it really been that long?!

As for the timeline... one thing I don't understand... why has Caitlin aged? As far as I know, none of the other characters who appear in multiple games age (Cynthia, Red, Blue). Either they're all vampires or it's a goof...

 

[Silktree]

As for the timeline... one thing I don't understand... why has Caitlin aged? As far as I know, none of the other characters who appear in multiple games age (Cynthia, Red, Blue). Either they're all vampires or it's a goof...

Most of the notable Kanto characters (all but Red) were re-designed for Gold and Silver to reflect the passage of time. So Caitlin isn't an exception.

The question you should be asking is why most of the characters in B2W2 haven't changed, even though logic would dictate they would at least switch clothes after two years. The answer is simple: Game Freak were lazy. In their defense, re-designing all the World Tournament characters would have been a lot of work, but the fact that only Cheren, Bianca, Elesa and Ghetsis received makeovers is inexcusable.

 

[Thepiplupstory]

The question you should be asking is why most of the characters in B2W2 haven't changed, even though logic would dictate they would at least switch clothes after two years. The answer is simple: Game Freak were lazy. In their defense, re-designing all the World Tournament characters would have been a lot of work, but the fact that only Cheren, Bianca, Elesa and Ghetsis received makeovers is inexcusable.

Your right. I can understand why they didn't want to change every gym leader and champion for the tournament, but Unova leaders like Burgh have no redisign at all. His Leavanny went up one level in two years. Anyway, the fact that all the older gym leaders have the same designs for the WT just adds to the confusion of the timeline...

 

[VeggiePopper]

The question you should be asking is why most of the characters in B2W2 haven't changed, even though logic would dictate they would at least switch clothes after two years. The answer is simple: Game Freak were lazy. In their defense, re-designing all the World Tournament characters would have been a lot of work, but the fact that only Cheren, Bianca, Elesa and Ghetsis received makeovers is inexcusable.

Your right. I can understand why they didn't want to change every gym leader and champion for the tournament, but Unova leaders like Burgh have no redisign at all. His Leavanny went up one level in two years. Anyway, the fact that all the older gym leaders have the same designs for the WT just adds to the confusion of the timeline...

I don't think there's any confusion at all in the timeline just because of the designs in the World Tournament (which, as far as I know, isn't even canon).

I personally think that the World Tournament characters retained their old designs is because that way they're recognizable for the players. In-universe, it's been at least 10 years since the events of HGSS & DPPt, not to mention those of FRLG and RSE, so all the characters (espacially the kids, like Red, Blue, and Tate and Liza) would be unrecognizable due to the passage of time. Think about Red: last time we saw him, he was 14, a mere teenager. Now, judging from the TR grunt's child having a schoolboy sprite (which means he must be around 8 years old) in BW1, plus the 2 extra years between BW1 and BW2, Red must be around the age of 26*, that's a full grown adult in his mid-twenties -the character would be unrecognizable if we fought a standard adult instead of the red hatted boy we all know and love, so Game Freak instead chose to keep the old designs in order not to alienate fans, allowing us to recognize them easily and create our own image on how they must look in the present day. While I do not agree totally with that perspective (I'd rather see updated designs so I know what adult Red and Blue look like and know what became of them apart from being the strongest trainers of their region), I see what GF intended there. Plus, as it was said, it saves them time and effort.

Furthermore, as I said before, for all we know, those characters taking part at the Unova World Tournament might not even be canon (we know that WT per say is canon, what with the player having to visit it during the main story, but the old GL's and E4 are post game, so that question remains unsolved). I think it is, but it still hasn't been confirmed yet, so, until the old characters taking part at the World Tournament during the events of BW2 is referenced in a future game, we should not worry about those appareances messing up the timeline. And even when that happens, it can be explained away as an aesthetic way of keeping the characters relatable to our memories from previous generations.

Spoiler

*Actually, I do believe that a real world timeline can apply to the Pokémon Universe timeline: Generation I, and by extension, Generation III, take place in Poké-1996 (the year Red, Green and Blue saw the light of the day); 3 years later, Generations II and IV happen in late Poké-1999 (Gen II, first released in late 1999)-early2000 (Gen IV: the Red Gyarados report indicates that DPPt started sometime after HGSS), and, 10 years later (let's assume the TR grunt went back to Unova in late 2000, few months after his last encounter with the player, then married in mid 2001, and had his child in 2002, thus the kid being 8 years old after 10 years since the events of Gens II & IV), Gen V started in Poké-2010 (just like BW1's actual date of release!) and culmined in Poké-2012 (BW2 being released this year). Like I just pointed out, even BW2 taking place 2 years after BW1, similarly to the time between both releases, seems to point to the Poké-timeline being parallel to ours. The only thing to contradict that is the consoles of some of the heores (May and Brendan owning a Game Cube and the Gen IV protagonists owning a Wii), but since that is just an aesthetical detail, and one that onlly appears at the start of the game (the only time the player visits their house), I call that a forgivable anachronism.

 

[Gallifrey]

Will there be Gen III remakes? The fact that Dive was reintroduced as an HM despite being all but useless in BW, and the rerelease of Pokemon EX cards, is enough evidence to my mind to believe that Gamefreak is going to release RSE remakes. It just seems that Hoenn is just getting more attention from TPCi than it used to - for whatever reason, they really like Rayquaza lately. And the fact that they brought back Pokemon EX, probably the biggest component of the Adv generation TCG, sealed the deal for me. I'm surprised that nobody really mentioned that here. But, anyway, I think it's less of a question of if than when. I'm personally betting that the remakes are going to be announced on the tenth anniversary.

In any case, I'm really looking forward to them! I like Johto, and Unova has its good points, but Hoenn is my favorite region. It was the first Pokemon game I completed, too - I was seven when they came out. This apparently makes me part of a minority, but I loved the plot of Emerald (although BW's plot was better), I thought the region was diverse and the gym leaders were relatively tough (Slaking anyone?), and I think Adv generation Pokemon are awesome. Pretty much every part of it seems better than DPP to me, except for the wireless features (or lack thereof) and slightly improved graphics. But, I honestly didn't like DPP that much.

That, and I like Mudkips.

 

[S.S. Shadow Minun]

Remaking Generation 3 games in Generation 5 would assume that Gen I, III, and V are set in the same period, which won't make sense as Cynthia mentions events from Platinum, that Team Rocket guy, etc, nor they will expand Hoenn Dex. I would like to see a Hoenn-based sequel instead of remakes, with same starter Pokémon and revised Hoenn map such as fully-developed Littleroot Town set decades after RSE, and new villainous teams. Sequel ideas I would like to see:

Main:
*Same starter Pokémon: Treecko (definitely NOT a Yoshi!!!), Torchic (Year of the Torchic. I mean Chinese Zodiac.), Mudkip (u liek mudkipz?)
*Shadow Pokémon added alongside Pokérus. Shadow Pokémon are "evil" counterpart to Pokérus. And, Shadow Pokémon cannot breed because they are under purifying process.
*New (expanded) Hoenn Dex to allow more Pokémon to be listed.
*New player and rival characters to replace Brendan and May.
*Revised Hoenn map with new features such as redeveloped Littleroot Town.


Storylines:
*Team Snagem and Cipher visits Hoenn, Brendan become Cipher leader, and May become New Hoenn Champion.
*Team Snagem was taken over by International Police, and become special investigation unit.
*Team Magma and Team Aqua was disbanded years after RSE but reformed again, this time's not using legendaries.
*Cipher confront new Team Magma and new Team Aqua by making corrupted legendary again (but this time's not Shadow Lugia. A variant of Regigigas anyone?)
*Cipher captured Pacifidlog Town prior to main storyline.
*Wally becomes one of the Gym Leaders in Hoenn. Most Gym Leaders will be replaced by new ones because of passage of time.
*Lunick (a Top Ranger with Minun) comes to Hoenn, distinguish himself as a Pulseman as he will enter Team Snagem, and as a Gym Leader (a referrence to to Giovanni as a former Gym Leader and a Team Rocket Leader, or Ronald as a player's rival and a Team Great Rocket member under alias "GR-X" in Here Comes Team-GR!). Then, he will battle the player characters several times as a Lunick himself, including Double Battles, or some Tag Battles if Lunick joins player and battles against any villainous team (Cipher, Magma or Aqua), or Triple battles against Cipher, Magma or Aqua. Lunick could also play a role similar to Looker in DPPt/BW/B2W2, except he will be a rival to player characters.
*Players should bring Regice, Registeel, Regirock to summon Regigigas from Cipher Laboratory in Pacifidlog Town.
*Tabuu from Super Smash Bros Brawl will give player a Legendary Pokémon before he disappears.


Other:
*No CamelCase names (too long for the Sapphire ones). Follow the nomenculature of B2W2 (Ruby 2 and Sapphire 2 anyone?).
*Should be made for 3DS if possible.

 

[Xenidal]

I can understand why they didn't want to change every gym leader and champion for the tournament, but Unova leaders like Burgh have no redisign at all.

If we assume that the characters were left un–re-designed intentionally to kep them recognizable (like VeggiePopper said), then that I don;t have a real problem with. Except for the fact that Caitlin was re-designed for some unknown reason, which is even weirder since she's not even an important character in HeartGold / SoulSilver.
Either way, I think that the characters should have at least been re-sprited. That is one thing I don't understand at all, unless Game Freak was lazy to the extreme or for whatever reason running out of time and rushing through everything. What I mean is, they have and entire team doing the graphics so it really isn't that much extra work. Not to mention that they re-sprited hundreds of Pokémon... a few trainer sprites is nothing compared to what they've already done.

(which, as far as I know, isn't even canon).

I think everything in the main-series games should be assumed to be canon. Pokémon games have never just thrown in non-canon stuff for effects in the past, even when they had the oppurtunity to.

The only thing to contradict that is the consoles of some of the heores (May and Brendan owning a Game Cube and the Gen IV protagonists owning a Wii), but since that is just an aesthetical detail, and one that onlly appears at the start of the game (the only time the player visits their house), I call that a forgivable anachronism.

I wouldn't even say that's an anachronism... for all we know the GameCube might have existed back in 1996 in the Pokémon world, and the Wii may have been around in 1999. And the fact that there was no GameCube in Generation I and no Wii in Generation II may have been retconned (among other things)

 

[Therian]

All people talking of a precious Timeline just has to look at Legend of Zelda to see Nintendo's view on Timelines. "Never let a timeline get in the way of a good story."

The fact that RSEmakes will likely be in Gen 5 doesn't mean they happen at the same time. BW and BW2 are in the same Gen but are 2 years apart.

They could do an RSEquel but they'd have a tough job explaining why Kyogre and Groundon were free again, unless you catch the one you couldn't catch last time. So in LavaRuby you'd catch Kyogre and in OceanSapphire you'd catch Groudon. And the enemy Team would be the Team that you fought alongside with last time. So in Ruby you and Aqua both took on Magma, so this time in LavaRuby you take on Aqua etc.

 

[Thepiplupstory]

I can understand why they didn't want to change every gym leader and champion for the tournament, but Unova leaders like Burgh have no redisign at all.

If we assume that the characters were left un–re-designed intentionally to kep them recognizable (like VeggiePopper said), then that I don;t have a real problem with. Except for the fact that Caitlin was re-designed for some unknown reason, which is even weirder since she's not even an important character in HeartGold / SoulSilver.
Either way, I think that the characters should have at least been re-sprited. That is one thing I don't understand at all, unless Game Freak was lazy to the extreme or for whatever reason running out of time and rushing through everything. What I mean is, they have and entire team doing the graphics so it really isn't that much extra work. Not to mention that they re-sprited hundreds of Pokémon... a few trainer sprites is nothing compared to what they've already done.

Yeah exactly. And also, the gym leaders could heave been at least slightly updated. Tate & Liza could have looked a little older. They could've altered the clothing but keep them similar. They would still be recognizable. Take Misty between, say Firered/ Leafgreen and HGSS, her hair length is different and a completely new outfit, but everyone still knows its Misty, right? So, I don't see why they couldn't have changed the characters a little, especially the younger leaders. Its like Caitlin ages aprox. two years but Maylene who was close/ a little younger is the same...

 

[MetroLSD]

A remake for Emerald is more likely than remakes for Ruby and Sapphire why? because we already have four main series games in gen V so there's no need for another, two more also Emerald had all the pokes and story elements the R/S had so it would be the smartest move

 

[Articwolf10]

If you think about it the major theme of Gen III and V are identical the main duo are complete opposites Kyogre and Groudon are Sea/Land and fight for dominance and Reshiram and Zekrom represent Yin/Yang (or Yang/Yin...) and fight... both have a major Yin/Yang theme to them... hell Hoenn itself represent the balence between land and see

 

[Thepiplupstory]

A remake for Emerald is more likely than remakes for Ruby and Sapphire why? because we already have four main series games in gen V so there's no need for another, two more also Emerald had all the pokes and story elements the R/S had so it would be the smartest move

Yes I would love that. I wouldn't completely mind RS's but Emerald would still be better. But maybe Rayquaza should be alower level for that point in the game, like 55.

 

[Digifiend]

Take Misty between, say Firered/ Leafgreen and HGSS, her hair length is different and a completely new outfit, but everyone still knows its Misty, right?

Misty's hair length is actually the same in all generations, she just wears it down in Gen II and IV instead of in the familiar side ponytail. Compare Gen II/IV pictures with her anime appearance. The hairstyle is slightly different, but it's always been that same length (any anime scene with her with long hair is extensions).

 

[Kalavinka]

A remake for Emerald is more likely than remakes for Ruby and Sapphire why? because we already have four main series games in gen V so there's no need for another, two more also Emerald had all the pokes and story elements the R/S had so it would be the smartest move

HGSS also had Crystal additions. I would have thought it obvious that when people say "RS remakes", they mean "RS remakes with Emerald additions" and simply shortening it for brevity.

 

[MetroLSD]

A remake for Emerald is more likely than remakes for Ruby and Sapphire why? because we already have four main series games in gen V so there's no need for another, two more also Emerald had all the pokes and story elements the R/S had so it would be the smartest move

HGSS also had Crystal additions. I would have thought it obvious that when people say "RS remakes", they mean "RS remakes with Emerald additions" and simply shortening it for brevity.

Yeah but i was referring to gen V, gen VI seems more fitting for duel-version remakes, gen V already have Black and White as well as Black 2 and White 2 adding more duel-versions would break the cycle which is why a single version remake(Emerald) would be more fitting for this gen.