Mafia Pokémon XY&Z Anime Mafia ~ Endgame (Until the day we meet again...) ~ TOWN AND JESTER WIN!

[TheCapsFan]

I'm gonna reply to all of this. Lighting rod how didn't I think of that dammit

I lmao'd at Caps' stories.

Why, because they're funny or stupid? Also I hope you caught the unintentional reference in there

 

[HumanDawn]

Other random things I've determined after Seth's outting:

- WolfOwl was likely the only vig in the game. This is because any vig shot last night would have killed Klavier Gavin. There is still the possibility that there is an X-Shot vig that decided to shoot last night, but Zexy was essentially the perfect vig shot last night; I don't see why any sensible vig wouldn't shoot him.
- There is confirmed to be a doctor in the game (lol that one's kind of obvious but I'll just say it anyway)

does not compute

does not compute

Speaking of jack's FN claim, the reason I'm not trusting it 100% is that Elie essentially gave it to him. Here's how I imagine what just happened between Elie and jack:

Imagine that you're talking with a group of people you don't know, but your friend is there. In order to make yourself look cool to these other people, you're all like "hey I smoked weed last night," because that's what cool kids do. Of course you didn't ACTUALLY smoke weed, because, you know, that's illegal where you live. Your friend, however, is kind of a rebel, and has done it before. So when the other people are like "hey man that's cool, where'd you get it?" you have no idea what to respond with, because you didn't actually smoke weed. Instead your friend says "I hear Lil' Johnny sells that stuff for cheap right down the road!" essentially giving you an out. You say "Yeah, I bought some from him earlier in the week. It was a good deal, bruh," and you carry on with your life, looking 100% cooler than you did when you first started talking with them.

This is the one sliver of doubt in my mind that is preventing me from trusting Jack's claim and townclearing KG. Don't you find it a little weird how Elieson says to Klavier "yeah there's this role that I've used offsite that is rare enough on this forum that people have to go to mafiascum wiki to figure out what it is, and it allows you to do XYZ," and then jack pipes up right after he says this all like "ayyy that's me lmao?" And then Jack claims that there's a second part to his role that's a roleblocker, a traditionally mafia-sided role?

Let's just say KG and jack are mafia. With the loss of Zexy, they can clear both KG and jack. KG uses his ability, and claims that he received some sort of info that jack is town. To "confirm" jack as cleared, Elie gives jack a fakeclaim/out for things to make sense, the FN. As a result, both jack and KG are essentially cleared. Here, jack is "you" and Elie is "your friend."

@HumanDawn does that answer your question? I know that may not make direct sense but I think the overall point is there.

LMAO, it does on Elieson and jack, and I see it a bit on Klavier and jack, because then if jack is not trusted and lynched and he has no such ability then Klavier is screwed, but yeah I understand.

 

[TheCapsFan]

If Zexy is Mafia:

People I suspect that are potentially scum on the wagon: MatrixChap

People I suspect could potentially be scum bussing Zexy: Space

People I suspect could potentially be Mafia who decided not to vote: maybe Pikochu, jack

 

[Seth Rollins]

Before I do this I'm going to @Space @GastlyGibus @Max1996 and @MatrixChap because they are people I want to hear from but they've been silent until then. They could be busy.

 

[TheCapsFan]

does not compute

does not compute

- Assuming the mafia shot last night (I don't see why they wouldn't) there is a confirmed doctor in the game because KG didn't die from the redirected mafia kill.
- Reread what I said about WolfOwl with this knowledge, and the knowledge that a doctor can only protect a player from one shot.

 

[Max1996]

Before I do this I'm going to @Space @GastlyGibus @Max1996 and @MatrixChap because they are people I want to hear from but they've been silent until then. They could be busy.

I'm sorry about that. I have already voted Zexy earlier and I'm not sure what else to post about.

 

[TheCapsFan]

I'm sorry about that. I have already voted Zexy earlier and I'm not sure what else to post about.

Maybe the four claims that happened in that time span? Your thoughts on those? Are they truthful or not? Why?

 

[HumanDawn]

- Assuming the mafia shot last night (I don't see why they wouldn't) there is a confirmed doctor in the game because KG didn't die from the redirected mafia kill.
- Reread what I said about WolfOwl with this knowledge, and the knowledge that a doctor can only protect a player from one shot.

I understood about there being a confirmed Doctor, but I didn't take into account the one-shot thing. It honestly depends by host, I think. In Zexy's Greek Mafia he made it so two shots can pass one Doctor protection, but Elementar may have handled it differently. Though, Elementar did say he was having some issue he wanted to clarify with Maniacal Engineer with, but that could also be because of a Mafia's Roleblocker being redirected to a Lightning Rod.

 

[Max1996]

Maybe the four claims that happened in that time span? Your thoughts on those? Are they truthful or not? Why?

Let's start with Zexy's claims of 1x Vig and 1x Roleblocker. I have to agree with what HD said about how Zexy should have used his Vig earlier to prove his role. Roleblocker? Not sure what to say at the moment.

Gavin's claim of Lightning Rod? All I will say is this: My night action gave quite an odd result, which would be explained if Gavin does have Lightning Rod.

...What was the 4th again?

 

[TheCapsFan]

Let's start with Zexy's claims of 1x Vig and 1x Roleblocker. I have to agree with what HD said about how Zexy should have used his Vig earlier to prove his role. Roleblocker? Not sure what to say at the moment.

Gavin's claim of Lightning Rod? All I will say is this: My night action gave quite an odd result, which would be explained if Gavin does have Lightning Rod.

...What was the 4th again?

I am speaking of the claims of Seth, Gavin, Jack, and HD.

 

[Max1996]

I am speaking of the claims of Seth, Gavin, Jack, and HD.

No idea, to be honest.

 

[HumanDawn]

Gavin's claim of Lightning Rod? All I will say is this: My night action gave quite an odd result, which would be explained if Gavin does have Lightning Rod.

...What was the 4th again?

OMG!!!! NOOOOOOOO

You just pretty much said you're the Cop by mentioning that your NA gave you an odd result!

Max1996 is my neighbour... He checked Ghostly N1, which would explain why I always said I trusted her Day 2 and Night 2, and obviously, Klavier Gavin was their second check because of the Lightning Rod. I at first pretended to not know about the Lightning Rod from how it changed his result of Matrix to Klavier. Klavier flipped Kalos Heroes, so nope, despite all the NAs on her, it doesn't seem like she was taken into a cult.

 

[GastlyGibus]

Okay, wallpost time.

6. @GastlyGibus - I never really saw anything wrong with them until he started assuming I was suspecting him. I mean I disliked his reasons against Zexy, and although they look much better now it looks completely different from before. I wasn't scumreading him at the time but I disliked their reaction, so slight scumlean. Other than that I really liked his motivation for scumhunting, but it's his latest reaction that makes me think scum.

You misunderstand me. I wasn't accusing you of suspecting me. I was just upset that you were (in my view) deliberately misreading my post and misrepresenting my argument. I wasn't accusing you of being mafia.

What do you mean by "his latest reaction?" Or were you referring to me saying you were strawmanning?

You can think they're more Town for other reasons. Like I said, I believe the softclaim and claim. I just haven't been getting the impression that he's that scummy either. I just really fail to see the case on him, and besides, don't you think that it's optimal play to wait out and see if Clembot flips and it isn't Zexy/somebody starts softing hard that Zexy can't be Clembot? It just baffles me how there's such a lack of thinking in having this harmless precaution. Is Zexy honestly the ONLY scum read and slot worth putting in all that attention to? If I die tonight I'll cringe if I see a vote on Zexy tomorrow.

I'm going to be honest, that's a really, really terrible strategy. We would be waiting all day for something that may or may not even be there. We don't even know if Clembot is a role.

The way I see it, we've really only lost one townie. We lost two independents, one of which wasn't even going to benefit us in any way. If this game has a standard mafia win condition, they have to have the number of town players match the number of mafia. If that's the case, then losing two independents doesn't hurt the town very much at all. And if that's the case, then we still have a little wiggle room for a mislynch.

Not saying that we should be trigger-happy and start lynching without reason, but I feel like a lynch on Zexy, town or not, will be wholly beneficial to the town. If he's town, then we know who to look at next, which is those who wanted to lynch him (myself included.) If he's mafia, then we know to look at those who defended him or those who remained neutral.

I agree with this, although I don't see what's particularly town about Garurumon nor do I actually remember seeing him contribute too often but I guess I could be missing some of his posts.

It's not the Garurumon is 100% town, but he's a lot more town than Zexy in my opinion, which is what I was trying to say. Elieson and Garurumon are far more townie in my eyes than Zexy, but HD listed Zexy over both of them.

Don't worry Ghostly, I'm Town. For what it's worth, if I were Mafia with Zexy I would not defend him as much, instead I'd only touch on it a bit and try to change the tide of the wagon. See: Chaos Mafia II. I'm a fair player - though admittedly I don't also want to lose a role like Zexy's, which could prove useful. I don't have anything to prove that Zexy is Town, it's up to him, but I think Clembot makes sense. If you have any reason to believe that Zexy isn't Clembot then please share it. Just saying he can't be and that you're positive does not move me.

This sounds very WIFOM. "Don't worry, I'm town, if I was mafia I wouldn't do what I was doing!"

Literally anybody can just say "don't worry, I'm town." It means absolutely nothing.

@GastlyGibus I don’t think you’re scum just because you disagree with me. However, reading people in ways I think are incorrect is indeed an important part of my scumread on you. The rest is tone (being too aggressive sometimes, to the point I feel like it’s staged) as well as your votes not really helping things.

How, exactly, are my votes "not really helping things?"

Hellcrow (7) - Klavier Gavin, Max1996, Elieson, MatrixChap, Lone_Garurumon, Hellcrow, Zexy
Zexy (6) - GastlyGibus, Ghostly, HumanDawn, FinalArcadia, Seth Rollins, Space

People who did not vote: jackatlasred, Pikochu, Olive (can't), moonbird (inactive)

If Zexy is Mafia:

People I suspect that are potentially scum on the wagon: MatrixChap, Lone_Garurumon

People I suspect could potentially be scum bussing Zexy: Seth Rollins/maybe Space

People I suspect could potentially be Mafia who decided not to vote: jackatlasred/maybe Pikochu

I'd recommend others to do this too.

Do what, exactly? What you just did? I'm only asking to clarify, I'm genuinely unsure.

Alright, my reads list, as promised. To be perfectly honest, I don't have too much time right now, so this is going by memory, mostly, but I want to post this while I can and get people's thoughts so I can revise accordingly. In order of most town to most scummy.

FinalArcadia - FA is easily my top town read. They've been providing good, thoughtful discussion, asking good questions and generally behaving very pro town in my eyes. There's simply nothing that's really made me suspicious, and I agree with most everything they've said.

Elieson - Elieson and FA are tied for town here. Both for much the same reasons. Elieson and FA both aren't just mindlessly following the crowd, asking their own questions, doing pointed investigations and generally being helpful. While it's still on the table that they could be super seekrit scum, I find it highly unlikely.

Ghostly - The counter-claim to Zexy is what makes Ghostly more town here. It would be extremely risky for mafia to try and counter a townie claim, as if Zexy flips town then Ghostly is guaranteed to be in the hot seat next and would come under intense scrutiny. Would it be possible for them to pull this extremely risky move as mafia? Of course, anything is possible, but again, it's very unlikely.

Space - I don't have much to say about Space right now. I'll have to go back and re-read all of their posts, and a lot of this list is going by memory to be honest. So far, nothing tipping me off to scum, but it's still kind of up in the air.

Olive - Olive is a wildcard. I initially thought they were scummy, based on their tone, their reasoning, and their aggressive style. But now, with Olive's role apparently being plagued with Shakespeare Syndrome, and their apparent investigative properties, I'm leaning towards town for now, simply because of their role. It's investigative in nature, and doesn't seem to benefit mafia in any way.

Seth Rollins - Good posts so far. While I disagreed with their reasoning sometimes, nothing overtly scummy stuck out to me. Kind of null, slight town lean, but nothing major.

Max1996 - While I can forgive the lack of content for being new to the game, there comes a point where I must ask for more. I really cannot give a conclusive read on Max. Max is 100% null to me.

TheCapsFan - Subbed in for an absent player. Nothing to go off of. Null.

Lone_Garurumon - Garurumon has been making good posts so far, and is contributing to the discussion, but a lot of his posts are merely speculating or commenting rather than forming any kind of independent cases. There's simply not enough to go off of.

jackatlasred - Same as above.

Klavier Gavin - To be honest... I haven't noticed KG. I'm going to have to go back and re-read a lot, but I honestly cannot remember what kind of posts they've made.

Pikochu - I was a bit leery of their earlier posts. Jumping down the throat of a newbie with reasoning that was far-fetched even for an experienced player to pull off didn't seem right with me. For now they've been kind of cruising in the background, so I'm leaning just ever so slightly towards scum. Just barely, though.

MatrixChap - Matrix just doesn't sit right with me. I can't explain it, it's just... something is off. I know he's new as well, but I cannot remember any kind of meaningful, contributing posts made by them.

HumanDawn - Oh, HumanDawn. You might be wondering why I'm pegging HD so low on this list. It's not that I see them as terrible scum, but it's simply that I know HumanDawn too well. I know HD is damn good at this game; I've played in numerous games with them, and hosted some where they've played as well, so their position on this list is based on the fact that my read on them could be completely wrong and I'd never know. HD is a pro at looking very town, regardless of if they actually are or not. Mainly my suspicion lies with their defense of Zexy, which honestly doesn't make any sense at all to me. I also disagree with their role-based scumhunting, which seems to be focusing on the roles themselves rather than the underlying abilities. Like, the actual names of the roles, and not the role's abilities. They seem to be defending Zexy because Clembot would fit JOAT, but again, I just don't agree with that logic.

So, again, I'm not trying to say HD is scum, even if they're low on this list. It's just that, despite my high town reads on HD, I can be totally wrong because I know HD is too good at looking town.

Zexy - Obviously my highest scum read. Lots and lots of posts with absolutely no meaningful contribution whatsoever. Lots of flip-floppy reasoning and contradictory statements, lots of claiming to be pro-town while doing generally nothing of interest to benefit the town. And now that the bandwagon is forming on them, they seem to have just given up. Even if a lynch on you seems inevitable, I can't see a townie giving up so easily. They've defended themselves weakly, and I'm just not buying it at all. A lynch on Zexy will provide us with the most information at this point.

GastlyGibus - The scummiest scumlord alive. Kill them NAO.

(That last part is a joke pls don't try to read into it geez.)

Edited to fix broken quote brackets.

 

[GastlyGibus]

Also, can someone please explain these recent lightningrod shenanigans? I'm honestly confused by what's happened, there's so much info to take in and it's very hard for me to try and make sense of it.

OMG!!!! NOOOOOOOO

You just pretty much said you're the Cop by mentioning that your NA gave you an odd result!

Why would you draw attention to that?

 

[Zexy]

@TheCapsFan I don’t think asking to get my lynch delayed for a day is desperation; more like actual strategy which I suggested

@HumanDawn Except I don’t really like outing I’m vig, scum would be afraid of that and focus on me. Which is the entire reason I avoided claiming it earlier.

I'd still like this to be done tbh. Mine has changed to:


If Zexy is Mafia:


People I suspect that are potentially scum on the wagon: MatrixChap, Lone_Garurumon


People I suspect could potentially be scum bussing Zexy: Space


People I suspect could potentially be Mafia who decided not to vote: TheCapsFan/maybe Pikochu

If Zexy is Mafia:

People I suspect that are potentially scum on the wagon: Zexy (lol obviously), everyone else
People I suspect that could potentially be scum bussing Zexy: everyone
People I suspect could potentially be Mafia who decided not to vote: everyone
People I suspect created a bastard setup: Elementar

- Assuming the mafia shot last night (I don't see why they wouldn't) there is a confirmed doctor in the game because KG didn't die from the redirected mafia kill.

- Reread what I said about WolfOwl with this knowledge, and the knowledge that a doctor can only protect a player from one shot.

"Does not compute

Does not compute" - HumanDawn

 

[TheCapsFan]

OMG!!!! NOOOOOOOO

You just pretty much said you're the Cop by mentioning that your NA gave you an odd result!

Max1996 is my neighbour... He checked Ghostly N1, which would explain why I always said I trusted her Day 2 and Night 2, and obviously, Klavier Gavin was their second check because of the Lightning Rod. I at first pretended to not know about the Lightning Rod from how it changed his result of Matrix to Klavier. Klavier flipped Kalos Heroes, so nope, despite all the NA's on her, it doesn't seem like she was taken into a cult.

Sorry HD but this makes you look a lot scummier in my eyes. 1. you just outed our cop. 2. Although I do agree that Max should have worded his post better, an "odd result" can mean any night action, not specifically cop.

Also Gibus' read on HD makes me think that the two are not on the same team. I'm still a little tense over what Olive was saying about Gibus, but regardless he looks townier because I don't think he would bus two, maybe three scumbuddies at the bottom of his reads list. (I also suspected that Gibus was HD's neighbor but alas that seems to be incorrect)

 

[Feenie]

I really would not have caught on to the cop thing if it wasn't pointed out...

- Assuming the mafia shot last night (I don't see why they wouldn't) there is a confirmed doctor in the game because KG didn't die from the redirected mafia kill.

Why would Gavin have had to have died? We aren't sure if mafia even put in a nightkill, especially since the host told us that mafia isn't forced to kill during the night.

 

[TheCapsFan]

You know what would tick a lot of people off?

If Zexy was a jester.

 

[Max1996]

2. Although I do agree that Max should have worded his post better, an "odd result" can mean any night action, not specifically cop.

I thought about how to phrase it in a way that doesn't instantly out me and said what I ultimately came up with.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Why would Gavin have had to have died? We aren't sure if mafia even put in a nightkill, especially since the host told us that mafia isn't forced to kill during the night.

It would make no logical sense for the mafia not to use their kill though.