Mafia Polymerization Mafia - Endgame (Mafia Wins)

[Midorikawa]

I'll just copy/paste what I've explained over at discord already...

Soooo...
When I was preparing 123, Dawning approached me with this idea...
We design a mafia game, loaded as fuck, totally batshit and insanely broken, with a wild twist in it...
Both of us made a faction, Dawning made the Mafia roles, I prepared Town...
But neither of us knows the roles of the other faction until the Role PMs get sent out - I was on board immediately, total no Brainerd...
Because of that there is stuff like mafia ninja but no Tracker/Watcher...
Or an ultimate Utrongman that's guaranteed to kill...
Both factions were complete shots in the dark to each other.

NO REGERTS!

…..Raven I hate you.

I think that idea sounds super fun but honestly any role that can instantly end the game for a whole faction ruins the fun to me, so flag bearer actually ending the game for town kind of dampers the experience of what was shaping up to be a fun game.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

I will keep that in mind, as well as fatal amounts/super disastrous types of explosives (and especially combinations of these things)

I later realized I could have done your dreidel way cooler btw, at some point during D2 I noticed that ninja was essentially pointless...
Instead I had the following idea:

+1 base vote power
-1 base vote power
+1 base vote on slot (as in hated)
-1 base vote on the slot (loved)

Roll during each phase, the effects stack - once I came up with that I hated myself with passion for not coming up with it earlier

 

[DawningWinds]

When I first pitched the idea, the exact wording was "designing their faction to be as stacked as possible without having a clue what the other is doing till both are done". In my head, the idea of making both sides unreasonably powerful was supposed to result in some insane semblance of balance. Idk if maybe my wording wasn't clear or Raven just kinda lost track of that part of the idea, but while I ended up going all in on the idea of making them OP, Raven... well, he put in a flag bearer, among other things, that resulted in the balance being pretty far tilted in favor of the Mafia.

 

[Quasar_Catfish]

When I first pitched the idea, the exact wording was "designing their faction to be as stacked as possible without having a clue what the other is doing till both are done". In my head, the idea of making both sides unreasonably powerful was supposed to result in some insane semblance of balance.

I'd play this game with you in the future, if you'd like!

 

[DawningWinds]

I'd play this game with you in the future, if you'd like!

"Play this game" as in design a game with the same concept or....?

 

[Quasar_Catfish]

"Play this game" as in design a game with the same concept or....?

Where we each design half of the game and mash it together.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

The most trouble I encountered with as stacked as possible were the following things:

If I had stacked out town the way I could have, the game would have been (almost) impossible to win for mafia. I had to keep in mind that no matter how stacked mafia is, they are still just three people in the end, 4 max if they target Minish - first mistake, because I didn't consider basically godfather zombie.
Anyway, I considered a lot of things that ultimately didn't make it, among them...
I removed several Goos, hence the reason the Ascetic (which originally was a more powerful version of my Tracker/Watcher/1x Ascetic JOAT) was goo repelling - it's pointless when you look at the final setup, as there is nothing that would have made it necessary, but when I started working on the whole thing there was a lot more "kill retaliation" involved (in addition to the two types of bombs that I already had).
Andoryu Teito was nerved, originally he was planned as 2x Death Proof, odd-night Merciless Strongman Vig on Steroids with even-night Ryu senses.
The Quas Vig was not stupid until later on, although I don't think that this was a bad idea itself - the bad part is that N2 would have been too early. I sacrificed even night vig for Shoot first, ask questions later Cop, because I really liked the idea and it guaranteed a result that's definitely accurate.
I removed several passive protections because I kept worrying that I would make it to town sided again (making things too town sided was a feedback I became after RE2 and ABC, so I kept worrying about it happening again).
Eventually the setup turned into a claim punisher, this was less intentional at first, but with the recent complaints about the whole claiming situation I tweaked around it a little more.
And the Flag Bearer...
I still think under different circumstances it wouldn't have been that much of an issue.
Yes, it's certainly mean, but with 3 layers of BP + the Cop with self targeting Doctor + Bodyguard - something I added specifically because of that, it was supposed to cheese my own consecutive target restriction by rotating doc and bodyguard + doc self targeting each night in case the Flag Bearer was forced to claim (which I obviously absolutely did not expect to happen D1), potentially fully tanking a Strongman shot.
I did consider a hidden backup Flag Bearer, because I thought it would be wonderfully confusing if the FB flips but nothing happens - I dismissed it because I thought the FB was protected enough (not like it would have mattered, mafia would have known about its existence anyway)
A lot of these ideas simpy never had a chance to work out as I planned since mafia was immediately able to debunk any fake claims, by D2 they knew exactly who had which role.
And even if it would have taken them longer, the existence of certain roles even existing already kinda crippled the concept unfortunately.
When I designed the FB I saw exactly three risks...
Being lynched, which I figured should be reasonably avoidable.
Andoryu Teito, who - if the player knows what they're doing - won't start randomly shooting but rather wait for a result or the Ryu senses instead.
And the Atom Bomb in case of a lynch, but I kinda expected you guys to be aware of its existence D1 as it's probably the only role where claiming asap would have been optimal play...
Which brings me to the next thing...
Another big mistake I made was not considering people not using optimal play - I worked constantly with the thought of They'll know what they're supposed to do with it in the back of my head.
In my head it was always clear how the roles are supposed to interact with each other, but I didn't realize that people can't see what's going on inside my head.


Tl;dr: I had my paranoia allow me to strip down the set further and further on many parts and wrongfully expected people to think around 17 corners the entire time because I'm kind of a moron - my bad


Edit: I promise Yakuza 0 Mafia (despite still being bastard) will be tuned down to a more reasonable level (I wanted to use a more mellow approach on that one anyway)

 

[Midorikawa]

Andoryu Teito, who - if the player knows what they're doing - won't start randomly shooting but rather wait for a result or the Ryu senses instead.

That Would be pointless. It’s better to lynch the one revealed by the Ryu senses and use the crazy strong vig kill on someone else.

Also always consider people not optimally playing, because frankly optimal play is basically non existent. Something I know I’ve done as a host, while I ring roles, if sides feel too imbalanced player wise, I’ve switched people to balance Stuff.

 

[ExLight]

That's enough bastard games for me for the next 10 years maybe

 

[guzmania]

FA got to be fucking gumshoe?!

gumshoe was part of the fucking mafia?!?!

 

[FinalArcadia]

FA got to be fucking gumshoe?!

gumshoe was part of the fucking mafia?!?!

Gumshoe was taking revenge for getting written out of the series post-Apollo Justice.

 

[guzmania]

GOOD!!!!!!! HE NEEDS HIS REVENGE RAAAAAAAAGH
well i mean he was in the investigations games but if u mean the mainline series then yea
anyway as MIA FEY VERSION 3.0 i will MAKE SURE to AVENGE GUMSHOE!!!!!!!! he will GET THE SCREENTIME HE DESERVES!!!!!

capcom should let me write aa7!!!

 

[RavenRaziel98]

Something I know I’ve done as a host, while I ring roles, if sides feel too imbalanced player wise, I’ve switched people to balance Stuff.

Tbf I would have been very limited within this

That's enough bastard games for me for the next 10 years maybe

Under different circumstances I would be proud to hear this

 

[FinalArcadia]

GOOD!!!!!!! HE NEEDS HIS REVENGE RAAAAAAAAGH
well i mean he was in the investigations games but if u mean the mainline series then yea
anyway as MIA FEY VERSION 3.0 i will MAKE SURE to AVENGE GUMSHOE!!!!!!!! he will GET THE SCREENTIME HE DESERVES!!!!!

capcom should let me write aa7!!!

I really did kind of forget about Investigations while saying that lol, but to be fair, it feels like Capcom has at this point too. Capcom, please give Investigations 1+2 collection with an official English localization for 2, it's been so long...

I'll nominate you for AA7 lead writer, beryl! And then I'll go take over as Resident Evil's writer. We'll take Capcom by storm!

 

[guzmania]

hell yes!!!
i also promised someone i'd take over the mega man franchise as well ^^ and i will push sales for it SO hard
i will also take over the street fighter franchise to write vega out permanently and give dan/juri/kolin/ken/aki/manon the resolutions they DESERVE!!! and i will bring sean back also
anyway my aa7 plot goes SO hard... basically maya and trucy create wwiii (ladder vs stepladder) for funsies but klavier defeats everyone with his magical stretchy limbs and you get to face off against all of the rival prosecutors except for nahyuta because fanservice and there's an ema dating sim at some part where u get to pick a character to play as but u can only date ema
ADDITIONALLY! bonus content:

• secret hidden bonus chapter where franziska turns to the camera and shouts "i'm a lesbian"!
• van zieks's ghost does that one scrapped animation!!
• the player gets to pet missile!!!
• gumshoe gets a raise!!!!

 

[DawningWinds]

FA got to be fucking gumshoe?!

gumshoe was part of the fucking mafia?!?!

Well Raven wasn't gonna put him in!

 

[guzmania]

if dawning was in charge of town theyd give me a hidden godot spouse modifier i hope

 

[RavenRaziel98]

Well Raven wasn't gonna put him in!

Well while this is true, mostly because AA is a franchise that's not on my radar for a while now, even if I would've wanted to I couldn't have done it because you sent out PMs first and claimed that right

 

[DawningWinds]

Well while this is true, mostly because AA is a franchise that's not on my radar for a while now, even if I would've wanted to I couldn't have done it because you sent out PMs first and claimed that right

Honestly I wasn't gonna stop you if we picked the same characters somehow, but I did intentionally pick characters I figured you wouldn't.

 

[RavenRaziel98]

Yeah, even if I picked among AA and Avatar, my choices would have rather been Edgeworth, the old whippersnapper hag or the Judge for AA and King Bumi, the singing hippie or Iroh for Avatar

Edit: Or the Cabbage Guy of course

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