Spoilers So...is there anyone who DIDN'T like Zinnia?

[Gabo2oo]

In Pokémon Z, she'd at least be 5 years older (but probably closer to 10) so I hope she gets a redesign if we do get Z version. If she's just the same, un-aging character from a decade ago (when she's already referred to as a grown woman), I'll probably slap someone.

And does anyone else suspect that Aster is not dead, but rather missing? We don't know Emma's family. And she and Zinnia have similar skin tone (something really inconsequential, but who knows?), they're both post-game exclusive, and both walk around with a small Pokémon they don't use in battle. Maybe Emma was never abandoned, but was lost and had amnesia (something that could be alluded to through Looker, who's basically Emma's new dad) and if Hoenn and Kalos are separated by a decade, Emma would be 6 years old by the time of OR/AS, and since Zinnia is again a grown woman, maybe Emma is her daughter. Or her little sister.

I recall Zinnia being referred to as a young woman by Steven, not a grown one. And in Omega Ruby, a Magma grunt explicitly refers to her as a teenager.

 

[BlackButterfree]

In Pokémon Z, she'd at least be 5 years older (but probably closer to 10) so I hope she gets a redesign if we do get Z version. If she's just the same, un-aging character from a decade ago (when she's already referred to as a grown woman), I'll probably slap someone.

And does anyone else suspect that Aster is not dead, but rather missing? We don't know Emma's family. And she and Zinnia have similar skin tone (something really inconsequential, but who knows?), they're both post-game exclusive, and both walk around with a small Pokémon they don't use in battle. Maybe Emma was never abandoned, but was lost and had amnesia (something that could be alluded to through Looker, who's basically Emma's new dad) and if Hoenn and Kalos are separated by a decade, Emma would be 6 years old by the time of OR/AS, and since Zinnia is again a grown woman, maybe Emma is her daughter. Or her little sister.

I recall Zinnia being referred to as a young woman by Steven, not a grown one. And in Omega Ruby, a Magma grunt explicitly refers to her as a teenager.

A young woman and a grown woman are the same thing; a female who's overage. Since Steven calls her a WOMAN, while the grunt calls her a GIRL, it's safe to assume that she looks young.

 

[Gabo2oo]

In Pokémon Z, she'd at least be 5 years older (but probably closer to 10) so I hope she gets a redesign if we do get Z version. If she's just the same, un-aging character from a decade ago (when she's already referred to as a grown woman), I'll probably slap someone.

And does anyone else suspect that Aster is not dead, but rather missing? We don't know Emma's family. And she and Zinnia have similar skin tone (something really inconsequential, but who knows?), they're both post-game exclusive, and both walk around with a small Pokémon they don't use in battle. Maybe Emma was never abandoned, but was lost and had amnesia (something that could be alluded to through Looker, who's basically Emma's new dad) and if Hoenn and Kalos are separated by a decade, Emma would be 6 years old by the time of OR/AS, and since Zinnia is again a grown woman, maybe Emma is her daughter. Or her little sister.

I recall Zinnia being referred to as a young woman by Steven, not a grown one. And in Omega Ruby, a Magma grunt explicitly refers to her as a teenager.

A young woman and a grown woman are the same thing; a female who's overage. Since Steven calls her a WOMAN, while the grunt calls her a GIRL, it's safe to assume that she looks young.

I believe that makes it safe to assume that she is young. Even Ash in the anime is called a "young man" when he's a 10-year old boy, I'm pretty sure "young woman" can be used to refer to a non-adult female.

 

[Almonds]

In Pokémon Z, she'd at least be 5 years older (but probably closer to 10) so I hope she gets a redesign if we do get Z version. If she's just the same, un-aging character from a decade ago (when she's already referred to as a grown woman), I'll probably slap someone.

And does anyone else suspect that Aster is not dead, but rather missing? We don't know Emma's family. And she and Zinnia have similar skin tone (something really inconsequential, but who knows?), they're both post-game exclusive, and both walk around with a small Pokémon they don't use in battle. Maybe Emma was never abandoned, but was lost and had amnesia (something that could be alluded to through Looker, who's basically Emma's new dad) and if Hoenn and Kalos are separated by a decade, Emma would be 6 years old by the time of OR/AS, and since Zinnia is again a grown woman, maybe Emma is her daughter. Or her little sister.

I recall Zinnia being referred to as a young woman by Steven, not a grown one. And in Omega Ruby, a Magma grunt explicitly refers to her as a teenager.

A young woman and a grown woman are the same thing; a female who's overage. Since Steven calls her a WOMAN, while the grunt calls her a GIRL, it's safe to assume that she looks young.

Teenage girls are sometimes referred as young women in real life.

 

[Isaac Gravity]

Finished Episode Delta last night so I can finally have a real say:

Zinnia is hands down one of GF's best designed characters and she's got a fantastic encounter/battle remix theme and she looks better in Team Magma's uniform but that's neither here nor there.

For the point of the topic, while the game gives me a lot (and I mean A LOT) of reasons to thoroughly dislike the gal I can't really bring myself to doing so. Doesn't mean I can bring myself to liking her either. Putting the typical Dragon lore>>>all business Pokemon likes to play with, Zinnia suffered from trying to come off as too many things at once but with no proper utilization of any traits. No, I mean seriously, did she really try using a "truth vs ideals" conversation when the shit she's pulled up to this point has been self-serving "ends justify the means"?

As a result she was just an unhinged little dingbat who near doomed all of ORAS Hoenn (twice), roughed up/used intimidation on others to get what she wants, more or less spat on (honestly laughed at) the efforts of those genuinely trying to save their world with a not so stellar plan of her own, never tried to explain herself--

Yeah that part actually annoyed me the most. Y'see, as meta as that mention was, from a face-value aspect, Cozmo and Steven and probably most in the ORAS verse would have little reason to consider there being a Hoenn outside there own without actual proof (esp. in a desperate situation like that were they're also strained) given the circumstance. It felt less Zinnia was talking to PC May/Brendan and more the ones who would know this is a re-imaging of a 12-year-old game and/or are aware of the multiverse/branched realities based on actions taken idea if you get my drift.

It was also hard to feel sorry for her. Not just because of her actions but because of the barely tell and don't show aspect of the whole Aster situation. I mean, even AZ's sadness was pretty straightforward since his tale told us everything we needed to know AND gave us cutscene pictures as a bonus.

No Zinnia, we were NOT on the same page. Y'see, MY plan would involve taking all the Infinity Energy onto a manned Rocket and flying that sucker into the meteoroid all Mega Man X5 style. Sure, suicide mission, there will be plenty of debris and meteor chunks damaging the planet and I sure as hell would not have seen Deoxys coming but at least my plan involved me working with others also wanting to set things right and wouldn't involve screwing over some other planet/world (which by the basis of it was kind of a jerk move).

 

[Garren]

Gotta be honest, I'm sort of growing tired of every game introducing a "mystical" character...it started with N, then AZ, now Zinnia, and no doubt they'll do it again. Haven't finished Episode Delta yet, but I find N to be obnoxious (although to be fair that's probably the 'Cynthia Effect' for me where his huge popularity back during BW sort of put me off), AZ was weird and his plot wasn't very satisfactory at all, and I can tell I'm probably not going to like Zinnia much.

Ramping up the Pokemon each game, that's fine, but I personally wish they would've kept the humans a bit more down to Earth instead of making them special now. I mean, introducing a 3000-year old immortal man and a dimensional traveler just totally changed the feeling of the series for me. I know Pokemon has always had a slight paranormal bent, but usually the humans were more or less normal, bar a few with supposed psychic powers and such.

 

[Alola]

As far as Gen VI post-game characters go, Emma was likeable, Zinnia not really--she has a lot of flaws that aren't really addressed, and her actions are on par with evil team members and we excuse it because?

Okay, so Archie and Maxie tried to awaken Kyogre and Groudon, but with good intentions. Archie wished to recreate the pristine world in which Pokemon thrived, and Archie wished to push human development forward with more land. The problem was, both underestimated the legendary's power, and they never meant to create all this destruction. Zinnia? Her good intention was to awaken Rayquaza to stop the meteoroid, and she aims to do this by helping one of the teams awaken the legendary Pokemon. The problem is, she knows full well the powers of these legends, and she had an alternate plan that amounted to theft, by stealing Keystones to pray to Rayquaza. One begins to wonder why she didn't consider this in the first place, especially since it was well chronicled in Draconid lore that Rayquaza responded to prayers to the "Rainbow stone".

Then she has the audacity to criticize Steven and the Mosdeep Space Centre for wanting to warp the Meteoroid away because it could potentially be transported to an alternate Hoenn. That's great and all, but Zinnia provides zero evidence that this second Hoenn exists, and if we weren't playing remakes of the original games, we as the players would have no reason to suspect alternate universes exist. Rather than explaining her plan, she condescendingly calls them uncreative for not being able to formulate an alternate plan when they don't have access to the same ancient knowledge she does, and then destroys the dimensional shifter! Maybe you could have told them that you planned to summon Rayquaza and let them keep the dimensional shifter as a contingency in case you fail which you did. If the main character didn't follow you, the MEvo!Hoenn would be gone, if not the rest of the planet.

And then its incredibly hypocritical to be calling Steven and the scientists out for their plan which would destroy another Hoenn when you provide no evidence for the other Hoenn's existence, when your first choice for summoning Rayquaza was to awaken a legendary Pokemon which you knew could plunge Hoenn into destruction.

I mean shit, most antagonists only nearly destroy the world once, she almost does it twice in the same games. Good job Lorekeeper Zinnia, tell me again how the Draconids have been protecting Hoenn?

Oh, and she names her Whismur Aster, and she supposedly cares for (the original) Aster. This Whismur? I feel bad for it. First, its left on Sky Pillar to give the PC a letter while she leaves. Then she abandons Aster once again at Meteor Falls with her grandmother. Its clearly just something she's projecting her baggage on--she doesn't care about Aster the Whismur, she cares about the memory of Aster this Whismur is helping her keep alive.

I haven't really thought about it, but it only took me a few seconds to remember that I'm not a fan of people who steal and trash devices meant to save the world only to fail in their own scheme and force me to fix their problems.

Her theme was kick-ass, though.

I just immensely spoiled everything Zinnia related by accessing this thread. However, these two comments were worth it. My word, it made my night. Life and Outrage, if you guys were in the games I swear you'd be:

Common Sense Life & Outrage challenge you to a battle!

 

[The Outrage]

Gotta be honest, I'm sort of growing tired of every game introducing a "mystical" character...it started with N, then AZ, now Zinnia, and no doubt they'll do it again. Haven't finished Episode Delta yet, but I find N to be obnoxious (although to be fair that's probably the 'Cynthia Effect' for me where his huge popularity back during BW sort of put me off), AZ was weird and his plot wasn't very satisfactory at all, and I can tell I'm probably not going to like Zinnia much.

Ramping up the Pokemon each game, that's fine, but I personally wish they would've kept the humans a bit more down to Earth instead of making them special now. I mean, introducing a 3000-year old immortal man and a dimensional traveler just totally changed the feeling of the series for me. I know Pokemon has always had a slight paranormal bent, but usually the humans were more or less normal, bar a few with supposed psychic powers and such.

Zinnia has never traveled across dimensions, alternate worlds were just a part of Draconid lore (and she's certainly not the only NPC to entertain the idea; Archie/Maxie mention it, and so did these random NPC in BW).

I also don't see what makes Zinnia more special than say, Korrina. Both are their respective generation's successor to receive the ancient knowledge/duty of their people. Zinnia just had the weight of a(t least) 1000 year old prophecy of a world-destroying meteoroid on her shoulder. She wasn't any more inherently special than any other girl--she just had more responsibilities thrust upon her (I guess I could forgive her erratic behaviour considering how she was probably raised)

 

[Garren]

Yup, I admit I sort of read Zinnia wrong...I honestly thought she somehow traveled from the other dimension.

My point still stands with AZ, though, and it seems judging by ORAS they'll gonna play the immortality card probably more in the future so he's present at every major event. >.>

 

[The Outrage]

Yup, I admit I sort of read Zinnia wrong...I honestly thought she somehow traveled from the other dimension.

My point still stands with AZ, though, and it seems judging by ORAS they'll gonna play the immortality card probably more in the future so he's present at every major event. >.>

Honestly, I have a feeling Riley's immortal. According to Byron:

"You're acquainted with a fellow named Riley, aren't you? He's a mystifying sort, that one. I have no idea how old he is, to tell you the truth."

Either that or the Force his aura causes him to age slowly.

 

[BlackButterfree]

Honestly, I have a feeling Riley's immortal. According to Byron:

"You're acquainted with a fellow named Riley, aren't you? He's a mystifying sort, that one. I have no idea how old he is, to tell you the truth."

Either that or the Force his aura causes him to age slowly.

I can't wait for Sinnoh remakes and Riley's redesign. He was my favorite NPC and one of the hottest. His similarities to that hunk Sir Aaron did not go unnoticed...

But I agree with Garren. I have a feeling AZ's going to be the new Looker and show up in every region. But honestly, they both organically make sense. Looker is a police officer and one of the major plot points of the series as a whole is a child defeating an ILLEGAL organization single-handedly with the police having to scoop everyone up and send them to jail off-screen. And AZ's been alive for 3,000 years. At first, X and Y made it seem like he just wandered Kalos all that time, but it makes more sense that he'd traveled the world.

Floette probably didn't stay in Kalos where she'd be reminded of the carnage wrought in her name. And most likely, AZ couldn't deal with what he'd done and never returned to Kalos, which is why the team that previously hunted down Xerneas/Yveltal (which is mentioned in Anistar) failed. They didn't have AZ or the key to the weapon, but Lysandre did.

I doubt Zinna is any type of mystical person, she's just an antisocial little brat who's rude to gorgeous Pokémon League Champions and big, burly black men with blue facial tattoos.

 

[Esserise]

Zinnia just had the weight of a(t least) 1000 year old prophecy of a world-destroying meteoroid on her shoulder. She wasn't any more inherently special than any other girl--she just had more responsibilities thrust upon her (I guess I could forgive her erratic behaviour considering how she was probably raised)

That's how I see it - that, in addition to the pain she must be feeling as a result of losing Aster. I said it elsewhere, but I mean, if his parents holding him to unreasonably high expectations can cause Cyrus to become a stoic nihilist who aims to literally destroy the universe in order to become a deity and then erase the very concept of souls from existence, then I think that - even if I don't agree with Zinnia's behavior, I can at least understand why she acts the way that she does, and why she is a bit unhinged. The games don't exactly treat her as being in the right. When Steven meets with her grandmother, he does call her out as a hypocrite for kick-starting an apocalypse, and then, what is essentially her version of God turns its nose up at her because she isn't worthy of it.

 

[Zweilous]

I kind of disagree with that. She's not chosen by Rayquaza, but it still is able to save the world. Steven calls her out to her grandmother, but she ends up being ultimately right as it's her plan that succeeds (with one difference), not Steven's or anyone else. She also doesn't face the consequences of her actions as she's never punished for stealing the Key Stones or nearly causing the apocalypse, she just... leaves. The story says she wrong in doing some of these things, but the story doesn't really punish her for it, even the admins and Archie/Maxie shown more regret then she does. The worst thing that happens to her is not getting to fly on the godly green dragon, and even then, it's because it lacked enough power at the time and it was still able to do it afterwards.

So even in the sense that I understand why she did what she did, I'm still not forgiving of the character, nor do I feel the story handled her that well.

 

[The Outrage]

I kind of disagree with that. She's not chosen by Rayquaza, but it still is able to save the world. Steven calls her out to her grandmother, but she ends up being ultimately right as it's her plan that succeeds (with one difference), not Steven's or anyone else.

Steven's plan didn't succeed because she destroyed the Dimension Shifter, otherwise it would have worked.

I realize she stole the Keystones, but I don't know why people are acting like that's on the top of the list of bad things she did--I never thought she'd keep them (though I had doubts she'd return them so much as leave them there; it was the PC who returned it)

 

[Zweilous]

I kind of disagree with that. She's not chosen by Rayquaza, but it still is able to save the world. Steven calls her out to her grandmother, but she ends up being ultimately right as it's her plan that succeeds (with one difference), not Steven's or anyone else.

Steven's plan didn't succeed because she destroyed the Dimension Shifter, otherwise it would have worked.

I realize she stole the Keystones, but I don't know why people are acting like that's on the top of the list of bad things she did--I never thought she'd keep them (though I had doubts she'd return them so much as leave them there; it was the PC who returned it)

But it's not the plan that the story has succeed, which was my point. Zinnia is the successful one here, the doctors and Steven aren't allowed to succeed and she's the one that gets that glory. On top of that, the story plays up the fact that their option could have dire consequences on the people of the other dimension, so her plan ends up being the one that is the better option.

Also, I never said it was the worst thing that she did, I listed it as an example of something negative that she did that didn't have a consequence attached to it for her. Nearly causing the apocalypse was far worse, and again, she doesn't even show a hint of remorse for that one either.

 

[Isaac Gravity]

^And Zinnia was only "successful" because the PC was there and that meteorite they've been holding all that time was the boost Rayquaza needed. In the end all she really did was sit and watch as the PC (and Rayquaza) clean up her mess.

 

[PixelPerfect]

I didn't really like her. If Pokémon games had dialogue trees I'd probably chosen to say some pretty harsh words to her. I don't really know why, I guess it's just that she runs around stealing Key Stones and acts like she knows the best when her little plan would have failed if not for the player's actions. Not to mention even if her plan worked, what could she have done about Deoxys? I also kinda feel like she got off too easy and had no real consequences for her actions. A lot of what I feel has already been said in other posts in this thread.

I liked Emma in XY better although I wouldn't have nescessarily made the same choice of accepting Pokémon from a criminal scientist who basically used her for his own nefarious gains, but I deeply respect forgiveness so I'm fine with it in the end.

 

[Team Gaara]

I liked Emma in XY better although I wouldn't have nescessarily made the same choice of accepting Pokémon from a criminal scientist who basically used her for his own nefarious gains, but I deeply respect forgiveness so I'm fine with it in the end.

Not to get off topic, but it isn't like Emma knew that Xerosic was using her and that he was a part of Team Flare. She was homeless and illiterate before meeting Looker; she probably didn't even know about Team Flare in the first place.

 

[The Outrage]

Not to get off topic, but it isn't like Emma knew that Xerosic was using her and that he was a part of Team Flare. She was homeless and illiterate before meeting Looker; she probably didn't even know about Team Flare in the first place.

Not to mention that Emma only took the job (where all she literally did was sleep while the suit controlled her) so she could help pay back Looker for taking her in.

Or the fact that Xerosic isn't Malva who was in the public eye, so who would actually know that he's part of Team Flare or who he even is? I'm sure Malva got off without any reprimands by claiming she was just a Lysandre Labs employee--after all, Lysandre did run a legitimate corporation where she was hired as the newscaster for the Holocaster. Who knows how many people under his employment were actually card-carrying members of Team Flare, and who was simply an employee of Lysandre Labs.

 

[NoirGrimoir]

I liked her design, I liked the drama she brought to the game and her storyline, and I hella liked her music! On the other hand, pretty much everything she said was sort of annoying, and the whole 'Draconid' thing was ki~ind of dumb...

I give her three and a half stars!