Sprites Or Models?

[Stratelier]

If he's referring to the cel-shaded rendering style ... that's one of the best parts!

 

[-Luster Purge-]

Only thing that really upsets me about models is that alot of pokemon lost their contrast from their sprite forms. Look at a shiny nidoking sprite versus the model and tell me you like the model as much color wise as the sprite. Same for alot of pokemon.

 

[Felly]

I think the models look really nice, and I actually like seeing them over the sprites. They've grown on me more so than the sprites. I only really like the animated models though; the non-animated models don't really look as nice.

That said, I think the sprites are a lot better coming from an art standpoint. They're a lot easier to use in non-moving images, and also the sprites look a lot better not animated where as the models are good for animated things, in game and out of game. I've seen non-animated models, and they look kinda boring & also look as if they've been pulled from a part of the animated model, whereas sprites had one static form you could use & also had animated ones for use as well (that admittedly aren't as nice as the models, but still).

I could go either way on the issue, really.

 

[Stratelier]

One of the issues with having 3D models is that your animations don't always sync up with what the move actually is. E.g. "Charmeleon used Fire Fang! *swipes claw at opponent*"

However, I decided to put some more time into Gates to Infinity today, and I discovered: GTI's animations are much worse. Take Salamence for example -- that tail seems permanently curled around its right side, especially when walking/running (whereas Serperior does NOT have this problem). Its animation for physical attacks is a tail smack, even for moves like Bite and Crunch.

 

[IlluminationTheory]

One of the issues with having 3D models is that your animations don't always sync up with what the move actually is. E.g. "Charmeleon used Fire Fang! *swipes claw at opponent*"

That does bother me - Feraligator has the same issue - but I suspect that's something they're working on even as we speak. There are a few pokémon who have multiple animations for different classes of move. Can't think which ones off the top of my head, but Hawlucha might be one of them? So the game does distinguish between bites and kicks and punches and slashes, I suspect it was just time limitations. 700-odd mons, plus mega-evolutions and alternate forms, with at least two attack animations each, plus a landing animation, idle animation, and a fainting animation; yeah, there's bound to be some squiffy stuff. I would be very surprised if they didn't keep adding animations over the coming years - maybe even within the next three months...

 

[Zeb]

I love the models to be honest. At first I was worried about losing the sprites from the series, but after playing XY for almost a year I'm convinced that the models are miles better. I've found myself coming to appreciate more Pokemon after seeing their models animated in battle (and also Amie), something which the sprites could never achieve. I won't deny that there's some Pokemon who looked better in their sprites (Politoed, Arcanine, Braviary all are let downs when compared to their Gen V sprites), but on the whole I really think models were the best direction to go for the series and I hope they never revert back (not that they will).

 

[Stratelier]

There are a few pokémon who have multiple animations for different classes of move. Can't think which ones off the top of my head, but Hawlucha might be one of them?

Keep in mind there is a distinction between the animation of the actual model and the animation associated with the move itself. Take all those multi-hit moves for an example of where the Pokemon model doesn't animate at all while the move is executing (literally the only difference is the visual strike on the opponent). You can view a Pokemon's model animations by tapping the Pokemon on its status screen. Most Pokemon have only two, but a few here and there have more or less.

Take Delphox: For a physical attack you see a basic hand slap; for a special attack you see Delphox pull that stick out of the fur in its left arm then stuff happens. But for Mystical Fire specifically, you see Delphox pull out that stick and twirl it around in a circle, then stuff happens.

Hawlucha isn't, as far as I know. For most physical attacks you see Hawlucha leap backwards a short way into the air then dive forward. For status moves (Swords Dance, Roost, etc.) you see Hawlucha spread its arms far out to the side and tilt its head back slightly with mouth open. Flying Press actually uses this second animation, except with Hawlucha bouncing into the air and coming down hard with a dramatic camera angle.

 

[Warrior of Fire]

There are a few pokémon who have multiple animations for different classes of move. Can't think which ones off the top of my head, but Hawlucha might be one of them?

Keep in mind there is a distinction between the animation of the actual model and the animation associated with the move itself. Take all those multi-hit moves for an example of where the Pokemon model doesn't animate at all while the move is executing (literally the only difference is the visual strike on the opponent). You can view a Pokemon's model animations by tapping the Pokemon on its status screen. Most Pokemon have only two, but a few here and there have more or less.

Take Delphox: For a physical attack you see a basic hand slap; for a special attack you see Delphox pull that stick out of the fur in its left arm then stuff happens. But for Mystical Fire specifically, you see Delphox pull out that stick and twirl it around in a circle, then stuff happens.

Hawlucha isn't, as far as I know. For most physical attacks you see Hawlucha leap backwards a short way into the air then dive forward. For status moves (Swords Dance, Roost, etc.) you see Hawlucha spread its arms far out to the side and tilt its head back slightly with mouth open. Flying Press actually uses this second animation, except with Hawlucha bouncing into the air and coming down hard with a dramatic camera angle.

There is one multi-strike move that doesn't follow that pattern and also has a unique animation for a Pokemon. Greninja with Water Shuriken. Every strike from that attack, Greninja puts its hands on the four-pointed-star-shaped spots on its hips, then holds its arms out in front of it, right palm up, and swipes its left hand over the right in a throwing motion.

 

[IlluminationTheory]

There are a few pokémon who have multiple animations for different classes of move. Can't think which ones off the top of my head, but Hawlucha might be one of them?

Keep in mind there is a distinction between the animation of the actual model and the animation associated with the move itself. Take all those multi-hit moves for an example of where the Pokemon model doesn't animate at all while the move is executing (literally the only difference is the visual strike on the opponent). You can view a Pokemon's model animations by tapping the Pokemon on its status screen. Most Pokemon have only two, but a few here and there have more or less.

Take Delphox: For a physical attack you see a basic hand slap; for a special attack you see Delphox pull that stick out of the fur in its left arm then stuff happens. But for Mystical Fire specifically, you see Delphox pull out that stick and twirl it around in a circle, then stuff happens.

Hawlucha isn't, as far as I know. For most physical attacks you see Hawlucha leap backwards a short way into the air then dive forward. For status moves (Swords Dance, Roost, etc.) you see Hawlucha spread its arms far out to the side and tilt its head back slightly with mouth open. Flying Press actually uses this second animation, except with Hawlucha bouncing into the air and coming down hard with a dramatic camera angle.

I think it's got three, though - it's got one contact animation where it strikes forward, and another where it swoops around? I don't know, I only half-remember! What I was getting at is that the game distinguishes between different types of move, so where the animations are available (and they very seldom are) it will check, "Does it make this kind of contact or this kind of contact," so that information is programmed in. Just not something they've yet had the chance to capitalise on. I should probably find a better example than Hawlucha, though. (I can't even remember if it is Hawlucha!)

ETA: Yes, Hawlucha! He crows for non-contact, he swoops for contact, and he kicks for contact. So a Poison Jab is a strike, and a Hi Jump Kick actually is a kick. Not that you actually see it!

 

[Team Gaara]

Since we're on the subject, I'm slightly confused as to why some animations don't match up with the moves being used. Florges has 4 attack animations and almost all of its attacks make use of its animation for...Physical attacks?

Florges' animations comprise of a Vine Whipping motion (presumably used only for Vine Whip, which makes no sense to me), something of a swaying motion (which I've never seen in battle), a motion where she spreads her out her arms as if throwing confetti (this is the best way I could word this for anyone who's never seen it...like me, in battle, at least), and a backhand, which she uses for just about every damn attack despite looking like it should just be for Physical moves. Moonblast, Petal Dance, Energy Ball, Aromatherapy, frickin' Wish and Toxic. I have yet to see any of the other animations other than the backhand in battle. Why is that? Don't get me wrong, it looks fine using some moves like Moonblast and Energy Ball with that animation. But why does it use that animation for pretty much every attack when it has 3 others to make use of?

 

[Stratelier]

Since we're on the subject, I'm slightly confused as to why some animations don't match up with the moves being used. Florges has 4 attack animations and almost all of its attacks make use of its animation for...Physical attacks? [. . .] But why does it use that animation for pretty much every attack when it has 3 others to make use of?

Probably depends on how the animations and attacks are mapped to each other internally. I hope it's not just a quick lookup table of (Pokemon ID + attack ID = animation ID); there should be a tagging system for each move indicating the method it's performed (e.g. punch, kick, bite, tail, etc.) and from that, a query to resolve attack animations based on those tags. But who can say, really.

 

[FullMoon]

Models look a lot better, but since it was the first time Pokémon made use of them, they are still a little limited in their animations, after all there's a lot of Pokémon to do models of, hopefully ORAS will improve on that or if it doesn't, the possible third version for X/Y or Gen VII.

 

[Alolan Coconut]

Since we're on the subject, I'm slightly confused as to why some animations don't match up with the moves being used. Florges has 4 attack animations and almost all of its attacks make use of its animation for...Physical attacks? [. . .] But why does it use that animation for pretty much every attack when it has 3 others to make use of?

Probably depends on how the animations and attacks are mapped to each other internally. I hope it's not just a quick lookup table of (Pokemon ID + attack ID = animation ID); there should be a tagging system for each move indicating the method it's performed (e.g. punch, kick, bite, tail, etc.) and from that, a query to resolve attack animations based on those tags. But who can say, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly Infernape uses punching and kicking animations.

 

[Team Gaara]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I remember correctly Infernape uses punching and kicking animations.

I know Infernape has at least three animations. It does have one for punching and one for kicking, in addition to one for special attacks.

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

One of the things I really looked forward to in a new Pokemon game were the poses of the sprites. Still, it's too early to say they won't do anything different with models, and I like how they can have different expressions and animations. I'm actually excited to see what Game Freak will do with the 3D models in the future. You know, something to look forward to in a new Pokemon game like the sprites.

 

[BlackButterfree]

The choice to use flat cel-shading (as opposed to more realistic shading a la Pokedex 3D) is also a stylistic plus.

The Pokédex 3D models look miles better than the X/Y models in terms of coloring since they stayed true to the already established color schemes. That's for sure.

HOWEVER... if there's one thing that the models screwed up, it's the colors! Especially in Gen III, most of the Pokemon were vibrantly colored and shaded. Now, as far as I've seen, many Pokemon's colors are drained away... Raichu, Parasect, Voltorb, and many others have gotten this lame treatment.

In Gen. 3 there were tons of coloring errors that were inconsistent with the official artwork. Gen. 4 is when they really solidified all color schemes and when they looked their best. Unova's GIF sprites were total s**t.

That reminds me. Why are there no XY models on the Pokemons respective Bulbapedia pages?

No one will let Bulbapedia use theirs. -.- And they have no one who owns a capture card that could be used to transfer all models into GIFs and allow Bulba to obtain them.

 

[GiraFragMich]

That reminds me. Why are there no XY models on the Pokemons respective Bulbapedia pages?

No one will let Bulbapedia use theirs. -.- And they have no one who owns a capture card that could be used to transfer all models into GIFs and allow Bulba to obtain them.

But aren't all the different language wiki's aligned? Because the german Pokewiki has them. Kinda bugs me.

 

[Warrior of Fire]

That reminds me. Why are there no XY models on the Pokemons respective Bulbapedia pages?

No one will let Bulbapedia use theirs. -.- And they have no one who owns a capture card that could be used to transfer all models into GIFs and allow Bulba to obtain them.

But aren't all the different language wiki's aligned? Because the german Pokewiki has them. Kinda bugs me.

It's not as simple as that. The two biggest wiki networks I know of are the Wikia network (any wiki made, hosted on, and stays with Wikia) and the Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance (NIWA) (of which Bulbapedia, and by extension, Bulbagarden, are co-founders of). While any wiki may link directly to any other wiki if there's something relevant, such as an article, they may not be affiliated with them. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say is true of the Wikia network, but NIWA wikis like Bulbagarden and SmashWiki will have inter-linking search results. For example, if you're on Bulbapedia and search for "Meta-Knight", it'll take you to the Meta-Knight page on WiKirby. So, basically, if there was a second Pokemon wiki in NIWA, there's a better chance that Bulbagarden's pages for the Pokemon would have images of the Pokemon models than they do with Serebii, for example.

 

[GiraFragMich]

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Champion Red]

I like models, but I do completely agree they need lots of work.