Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

[FinalArcadia]

Level 0 read is that FinalArcadia forcing reads on page 3 of a game is rand w

If nobody tried to give some reads - no matter how slight - it's hard for the game to get going, and I didn't want to post without trying to provide something to work with.

HD's opening push on me is a bit ballsy for scum (though I would like to see how he reacts to my high level of activity upon his return).

I don't know if it's any more ballsy than any other joke vote, especially when it happened pre-D1 technically. Not really alignment indicative on its own IMO.

DW, keep in mind that that will change if you continue to ignore NP and SM.

This seemed more lenient on DawningWinds than you were being on other players. Why was it more okay for DawningWinds to ignore NP and SM? Given your proactive posts so far in the game, I was surprised you didn't vote for DW when I was reading this.

Though my personal opinion on this:

Look, you can put as many guns to my head as you want, but the fact remains that neither my gut nor my brain are getting anything out of Soulmaster's posts because there's just nothing there.

I actually get a townread. If DW was mafia, I think he'd acquiesce a little more and try to fix whatever it was that might get him caught. It seems like he just legitimately has no read on Soulmaster, and given how little SM has posted, that's understandable. I barely was able to say much about him myself in my first post.

Vote: Reiji

Considering my thoughts on the players present and the general circumstances, I think it's very important to put pressure on 0-posters ATM, so they cannot avoid scrutiny simply by providing no information. A diversity of targets also makes it more difficult for wolves to hide their intentions behind wagon momentum.

I agree with the general reasoning behind this vote for D1, though with there having been more activity at the time it was posted, I think voting on active players is probably more helpful at the moment since you never know if someone - Reiji in this case - has even been online yet.

et, despite this slightly positive read on leetic!, I get no mention of my early bird post and vote on leetic!, which only lacks questioning compared to leetic!'s, and I get voted.

I don't really count a pre-D1 vote since it wasn't even really a vote at all and wouldn't show up in the vote tally. It's not really the same kind of push that leetic was doing once the phase officially began.

 

[neopest]

Vote: Reiji

Considering my thoughts on the players present and the general circumstances, I think it's very important to put pressure on 0-posters ATM, so they cannot avoid scrutiny simply by providing no information. A diversity of targets also makes it more difficult for wolves to hide their intentions behind wagon momentum.

p-edit: just a grammatical note, you can inflect ey/em pronouns as if they were singular!

I don't hate the motivation behind these posts even though I don't really agree with the practice. I think it's much more beneficial to pressure people who are actually here and playing the game, but I do understand the line of thought here.

 

[neopest]

Also @leetic

What do you make of DawningWinds complete refusal to cooperate with you? I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer here, just want to see if we meld a bit : )

 

[TheCapsFan]

Okay, this is too early to hold any strong weight, but I like the hustle from leetic. He's voted and wanting activity, so it's not hypocritical asking other people, even though early on it is frankly hard to get going IMO. I'd raise an eyebrow if he was pressing Soulmaster and neopest yet hadn't himself voted.

Agree here

 

[TheCapsFan]

UNVOTE: Soulmaster
VOTE: neopest

In Philo Mafia 2, your whole argument was that you had to be town because if you were scum you would have been less invested in the game. Of course, that was likely BS considering your alignment in the game, but this is currently our best lead.

can you provide a link to this game?

 

[TheCapsFan]

HD GTH town
SM GTH scum
FA GTH town
NP GTH town
TCF GTH scum (for showing up but not posting anything)
KV, DW, and RJ GTH 2 town and 1 independent (since I already have 2 GTH scum)

Here with the solve

GG, too OP. Might as well just throw in the towel at this point.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Out of everyone who posted, SM put in by far the least effort and his response to me was oddly dismissive.

This is not alignment indicative, Soulmaster typically acts as such. Though you'd expect me to defend my scumbuddy, so I guess I'm just playing further into your confirmation bias.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Also I do have to say that DawningWinds opening was pretty hedgey in almost all aspects. I would've liked them to have put some pressure on just about anyone and the fact that they haven't really said anything in that post besides leetic town is a small strike against them considering they mentioned 4 other players and specifically talked about 2 of them.

Bulbagarden games typically start in an (incredibly unproductive) RVS. As such, it's typical for people not to have real cases on anyone until about 8-12 hours into the phase. So I don't think it's alignment indicative for any Bulba-native to not be putting pressure right now.

Neither player is vote-worthy right now. Soulmaster barely said anything because there was nothing to say, and DawningWinds at least showed initiative in providing thoughts about some other players up to that point.

 

[TheCapsFan]

What are your GTH reads on SM, FA, and NP? (GTH means you have to call them either town or mafia. It doesn't have to be based on anything, it can just be a gut feeling.)

GTH they are all town.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Oh and HD, forgot him

GTH HD scum.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Vote: TheCapsFan because some activity occurred while you were here. You've played in some decently active games before, so I don't see what your deal is.

I find the fact that you have a strong belief that I was active last night to be ironic considering I woke up this morning with four new notifications, two of which were mentions that the game had started.

Look, you can put as many guns to my head as you want, but the fact remains that neither my gut nor my brain are getting anything out of Soulmaster's posts because there's just nothing there. Ask me again when he's even attempted to post something of value.

What an absolutely fantastic response. You get a gold star.

Spoiler

It only takes two clicks to ISO her in that game

Two clicks and a whole lot of time and energy that anyone with literally any obligations does not have, my friend

That's really player dependent, and since I have never played with Soulmaster, the answer is a resounding I do not fucking know. If I did know which alignment to expect more nothing posts from Soulmaster, I would've said that when you asked for my GTH read on him. I don't get why your so hung up on me having a read on a play who's said essentially nothing five hours into Day One.

A bit of abrasive animosity coming from the pressure by leetic. I haven't seen this before from town!DawningWinds when pressured, but then again, leetic is an entirely different beast. I don't necessarily think this tells as scum but it is outside of DW's town meta, so I figure that it's worth noting.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Then extrapolate based on past experiences with other players. I play with unfamiliar people all the time, it's a skill you have to learn.

Not everyone is as good at mafia as you claim to be.

Eliminated two out of a potential 28 scumteams. At this rate, the game will be solved in 62.5 hours!

I love math.

 

[TheCapsFan]

leetic I’ve played with once before, and his play here is significantly more aggressive than that; but considering that he was a blue in that game (whom I accidentally role-stole for a clean wolf sweep) this could just be natural boldness/impatience with being green, supported by the fact that he’s specifically trying to get everyone into the fold here.

If I had to guess why leetic is being more aggressive this game, as well as a bit of history:

leetic started out here in Bulbagarden, but they haven't played a game here in a very long time. Bulbagarden has always been a far less hardcore place for mafia then a majority of the other older mafia communities, some of which leetic frequents now. I'm guessing leetic is being more aggressive to showcase their changed playstyle from playing offsite, and to get a quick victory (regardless of alignment) to prove their point that they're a mafia god.

 

[TheCapsFan]

GTH on Kai now that ey've shown up

Town

Still looking around for a potential partner for HD maybe DW, the aggressiveness over the last few posts (halfway through page 5 rn) has pinged me quite a bit

Gonna pause right at HD's vote on me (ooo boy that GTH read on HD is looking baaaad against me now) because I have stuff to do, I'll come back and read the rest later

 

[Reiji]

Phase started at RidiculousAM for me and I've just been a bit busy today, which is why I've not been overly present on forums and ergo the game itself.

So apologies in advance for the wall of text, but I'll just be noting what I've picked up in the game so far and this will mostly be what I'm seeing at face value, as I do not have any meta on players here minus Caps and it seems that you all play HEAVILY into meta (or at least wildly different to what I am used to), so we'll see how this goes!

I'll probably be posting this almost as stream-of-thought on players and then a final read/etc at the end to show where I currently sit.

Firstly we have some pre-game spice with HD deciding to place a vote, now I would normally hate this play at the beginning of D1 and say it's opportunistic but how can you go for an opportunity you don't even know yet x).

leetic

Spoiler

The game starts with leetic trying to drum up activity (a little bit hyper-aggressive to me and I'm not sure on how I feel about how it was approached), but hey D1 is one of the most gross phases in any Mafia game, even if it can sometimes be the one that holds the most info. What I don't like about leetic is their behaviour and response to others as the phase progresses after that - instantly voting people that to me feel like all they've done is just not respond how leetic has wanted does not sit right with my gut. There's trying to take control and there's trying to "pressure" with a vote an hour or two into D1 when at this point only 4 people had even contributed to the game. The attempt at controlling the phase and want for activity to me now feels more like a bravado. Then alarm bells started ringing when I saw this:

UNVOTE: Soulmaster
VOTE: neopest

In Philo Mafia 2, your whole argument was that you had to be town because if you were scum you would have been less invested in the game. Of course, that was likely BS considering your alignment in the game, but this is currently our best lead.

Now I did say previously that meta is not something I'm going to necessarily know etc, however using someone being "invested" or not as a reason to justify a vote is weak. People can and will change in each game, as neo then went on to explain about how depending on your team etc. you can easily change how bothered you are about playing.

Sometimes the pushing gets to the point of obnoxious - hounding people for GTHs even when realistically they were not able to provide anything and telling people to simply "just git gud" when come on now, everyone is at a different level of Mafia - is a bit tiresome, but we'll see whether all this aggression starts getting results I guess. Tis only D1 afer all.

The one thing that doesn't make me instantly put leetic in the scum pile is that yes I can see scum wanting to cement themselves in the position of Town but to go THIS hard so early? That's a lot of risk to take only for it to potentially fall apart D2.

Soulmaster

Spoiler

Only 2 posts in the phase and yet I think I have an idea of alignment already. The first response to leetic I can understand and that's whatever, however the second response does seem a little off to me. It's the fact that they mentioned specifically when they're coming back, almost as a way of trying to say "get off my back until then" i.e. "don't say anything to or about me that might rouse suspicion and therefore rack up votes until they come back. Scared of having to defend themselves maybe and wasn't expecting to be picked up imediately by leetic?

Slight Scumlean currently.

FinalArcadia

Spoiler

So people seem 50/50 themselves even with meta on FA and right now I've got FA down as town, based on previous games of mine etc.

Again there's not many POSTS to work with, but the content right now feels good to me. Conversational but there's substance and justification behind what they say that doesn't alarm me at this point in time. Most importantly, FA has been challenging a lot of people's posts and I think trying to highlight issues to the rest of the game, as well keeping people in check. Again I feel it would be too much as scum to be doing this level of analysis, only if then D2 it could be used against them, especially this early into the game.

Townread currently.

neopest

Spoiler

Yay, someone challenging a player trying to take control of the game! The first few posts I have kinda shelved for now, as they were mostly discussing meta or didn't really have anything that jumped out at me. Things got good for me when they were challenging leetic's reasoning for jumping on and voting them, the points made are completely valid they don't necessarily read in a way that screams OMGUS to me and well with no OMGUS vote etc, looks like a genuine Town defence. Thankfully it seemed to keep leetic in check too, I've no reason right now to question neo's part in this discussion right now.

The vote on DawningWinds feels OK to me - I can see why they would at that point in the game.

Naturally their following posts I'm going to thank for talking against the votes for me (yay!), however again the point about trying to pressure players that are in the game and get something to help right now (same with the follow-up post to leetic) feels Town to me. They could've easily slipped in suspicion akin to a vote on me and got away with it at this point in the game, however have tried to steer conversation in a generally beneificial way.

Townread currently.

DawningWinds

Spoiler

Their initial post, being this:

All right, I guess things are started up.
I like leetic! trying to get things started up right away and throwing reads out off the bat, this feels like a generally town-ish thing to do. I know if I agree with making reads super strongly for nonposters, but especially with how inactive TWR games tend to be lately I like seeing activity encouraged. Don't know that Caps not posting when not too much has happened is all that indicative of anything coming from him.

I also do agree that the generally sense I get from FA's post feels towny, but from a meta perspective I don't know how it lines up with her scum meta. Not sure what I think of NP or SM.

Not a fan. I'm not saying there needs to be ane ssay at this point, however there's definitely more than enough to unpack and I feel that... most of that just got swept under a rug? Perhaps you're looking for more responses, perhaps you play like this, unfortunately for me I don't know that and therefore with that conversation in front of you, I am amazed that is what was taken away from it.

There were responses addressing people's concerns about this post later on and I still don't 100% vibe with them at this point. It still feels to me like it's almost put on nonchalance to try and not show you're cracking? Like I said without meta it's harder to get these reads spot on, so I'm going with what I normally attribute to players acting like this. I'll be interested to see how this develops as the phase progresses.

I do like that they stick to their guns, even when people are trying to apply pressure and willing to stare votes down the barrel. Unfortunately that makes my read a bit harder because I'm still uncertain. Despite that steadfastness and nto caving into vote pressure... at the end of the day there's still been vote etc. and that worries me a bit.

Null read for now, I guess town-leaning a little.

HumanDawn

Spoiler

Ah yes, the one player I think I properly remember from my last game here, the king of Luxray memery. Not without a purpose though, I just need to figure out what that is as of yet. The pre-game vote was wild but then how can I really take that into account when nothing had even started yet and even if it was to try and set something up in-game (been there, done that) it's not come to light and seems to have not given you what you wanted, yet, given your responses since.

Honestly however, the posts this time around have generally been a lot less Wacky And Wild than I anticipated. Interesting that at this point in the game you have so little to say... howver it has all been of value. The ISO has been incredibly helpful and I don't see anything that jumps out to me as scum trying to just "COnTRiBUtE" to the game.

Townread currently.

Kaiveran

Spoiler

So yes I am going to address the fact that out of the players voted, ey decided to vote for a player that had currently not spoken in the game, being myself.

Especially after the prior responses which seem to touch on a lot happening in the game, just seems weird the conclusion to draw (with a reasoning which I find a little bit of a stretch but I can appreciate why I guess ey decided to go for it) is to vote none of those players. Does that mean you read them all as Town/Indepedent? There's also a few like fluff/filler bits in between eir points made in posts. The whole vibe does not sit well with me.

I don’t have meta on anyone here other than the aforementioned two players, nor do I know site culture, and I won’t have time to get into either of those because I’m working this weekend. So stuff like leetic vs. neopest is gonna go completely over my fluffy little head – sorry~!

Being in the same position as em, I am a little uncertain why this was glossed over. Sure ey don't have meta, but surely there's something ey could glean from it regardless?

Ey go on to mention voting someone for no activity, however then mention that it goes against the spirit of the game to use something to determine activity. I don't like this approach to an "easy" vote, again in games I am in a lot of the time this normally turns into said person being scum and outed.

100% aware that this probably looks and feels like OMGUS - even if this was directed at Caps or any other player that was in my situation at the time of this vote, I would still be questioning this decision.

Scumread currently.

Caps

Spoiler

At the point of me making this post, Caps hasn't posted so I cannot comment.

Vote Kaiveran based on concerns highlighted in my summary.

 

[TheCapsFan]

Oh, and before I go, Vote: DawningWinds so I don't get bitched at for not voting

 

[Reiji]

Oh brilliant, Caps posted, let's go to town (pun intended) on that.

First thing's first - gunna just call out the fact that you've conveniently stopped at a player such as HD when it comes to challenging them. Known you long enough that you're probably cooking up a plan at this point. We'll see how that goes down.

Unsure currently, a lot of the more "off-topic" joke-y comments are normally what I see from scum!Caps, but then the community we are in plays a lot differently to here so it may just be how Caps plays here?

Not playing with meta, never realised just how hard it can be, eep.

 

[Soulmaster]

Cool now there's stuff, though fair warning won't be posting much today due to aforementioned DnD thing.

I understand the second post being off. Only defense of it being that early on, I just don't really do anything and the immediate pressure for nothing other than being online annoyed me. As has most of what leetic has done, but the annoyance doesn't mean I think they're scum, have a scum lean due to trying to encourage activity. Even if as a former leader of Lurkers Anonymous here I dislike that.

As for most of what has happened since then, don't have a ton to say, more of only half paying attention and read most like 2 hours ago. HD seems to be about normal, no matter which side he's on. And I can't remember any of my other thoughts today, should be back later with hopefully more but later will be a while.

 

[FinalArcadia]

Reiji's recent posts are really solid, I think they've got a solid vote on Kaiveran. Particularly about how Kaiveran brushed off questions of reading leetic and neopest with a lack of meta, especially when leetic had definitely posted enough at that point and neopest's posts weren't just fluff or anything either. Definitely can see the case about the Reiji vote being "easy" as well.

Caps also looks good so far, even though I don't fully agree with his thoughts on DawningWInds.

As for most of what has happened since then, don't have a ton to say, more of only half paying attention and read most like 2 hours ago. HD seems to be about normal, no matter which side he's on. And I can't remember any of my other thoughts today, should be back later with hopefully more but later will be a while.

That Human is the other player besides leetic that you point out and it is just to note that he seems "normal" regardless of alignment - which doesn't really make much of a read - seems odd. This is one of the few times in games that I think Human's posts are kinda falling into the background, so what was it about his that stood out in your mind enough to mention, albeit in a vague manner?

 

[Reiji]

Cool now there's stuff, though fair warning won't be posting much today due to aforementioned DnD thing.

I understand the second post being off. Only defense of it being that early on, I just don't really do anything and the immediate pressure for nothing other than being online annoyed me. As has most of what leetic has done, but the annoyance doesn't mean I think they're scum, have a scum lean due to trying to encourage activity. Even if as a former leader of Lurkers Anonymous here I dislike that.

As for most of what has happened since then, don't have a ton to say, more of only half paying attention and read most like 2 hours ago. HD seems to be about normal, no matter which side he's on. And I can't remember any of my other thoughts today, should be back later with hopefully more but later will be a while.

I appreciate you have said you'll be busy, but I feel I would've rather seen a more thought out post than something like this, if you're returning anyway. Definitely feels like you've picked a known player to just kinda highlight and I simply can't believe there's NOTHING to say in a game with this much in.