Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

[Reiji]

Is there something else you want me to go into more detail on?

Before I leave - no. You can't expand on anything else in my eyes, I just don't find the reasons of "I was tired" and "I merely read that they had wrote a lot but not what they actually had written" based on meta alone is a weak reason full stop, but especially from someone like you who makes sure to go back and read everything. A poor foundation for your then mentioned change of heart.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Oh, oops, I forgot to respond to this. Town PR is possible and something I had not considered, but it's still a single vote that nobody else had really given much indication of wanting to follow. I don't see many experienced players panic at a minor level of suspicion just out of fear of town losing that power role, I think mafia has more reason to react that way to try to nip suspicion in the bud.

I wouldn't say you're the only one, a couple others had posted suspicions and even I had began to question my townread on the slot

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Caps - Not keen on this wishy-washy SM response, also the lack of co-operation towards the beginning was a bit odd and I can't shake that there's been a definite change in attitude now that SM is getting more attention and the game is shifting towards that lynch. Granted Caps has also had some townie moments, but I feel this could be more trying to blend in, than genuine Town activity.

I'd like you to elaborate further on this. I actually agree that there has been a shift in Caps' attitude across the phase, so I'd like to see your further thoughts on this.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Neo - They swing so wildly for me. We go from a very good and solid viewpoint of analysing the game, challenging people where scum definitely would not, to this bizarre level of aggression when finally under some pressure. The relationship between Neo and FA right now is key, but out of the two I have to say Neo looks weaker as Town. Rebuttals compared to FA really do pale.

Do you think NP/FA is more likely to be t/t or w/t?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I'd like you to elaborate further on this. I actually agree that there has been a shift in Caps' attitude across the phase, so I'd like to see your further thoughts on this.

At the beginning, Caps was seemingly acting like a smartass and the reads were contrived, but now he seems quite a bit more open. His SM read immediately after the latter's catchup post does feel like a temporary reversion to the previous attitude though.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

leetic - I can't deny the continued pushing of everything feels more Town to me, but sometimes suffocating the game can also be a scum move to try and stop any issues being highlighted by Town.

I mean, you can say I'm active, but what do you think about my actual posts? Have they been trying to genuinely engage with everyone and build a coherent worldview, or were they just distracting the thread from important issues and trying to throw the town off?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

HD - Unexpected gameplay from you

Elaborate this point please.

 

[Reiji]

I'd like you to elaborate further on this. I actually agree that there has been a shift in Caps' attitude across the phase, so I'd like to see your further thoughts on this.

I'm having trouble using the ISO stuff and finding the correct posts so I'll just say this. It's weird to have seen Caps go from saying SM's behaviour is just "normal" and unsure why people are voting/decides specifically not to vote SM after a lot of players have tbqh highlighted more than enough to say why, but then decides to go back and "actually" read what SM has posted when it became a 3-way tie, decided to wait before voting and has now hopped onto the slipstream that SM is now actually bad. Add on the fact that they voted specifically after I did (and thus broke the tie), before then mentioning they were upset said tie wasn't broken by them.

Do you think NP/FA is more likely to be t/t or w/t?

As per my reads I am not 100% sure that NP is scum, but I think it is definitely Scum/Indepedent vs. Town in favour of FA.

I mean, you can say I'm active, but what do you think about my actual posts? Have they been trying to genuinely engage with everyone and build a coherent worldview, or were they just distracting the thread from important issues and trying to throw the town off?

The implication is that right now you are doing both, but more of the former than the latter right now which is why currently I have you down as a little more Town than not. Very quick to change though.

Elaborate this point please.

Based on the last game I played with HD, they were a lot more chaotic, that's all I can offer. I was also only really in for a little bit of that game, it's a shred of meta I'm trying to keep by my side to help read HD better.

 

[neopest]

@TheCapsFan

The reason I'd think you have the most wolf motivation to go after SM is that compared to most other people on the SM wagon I feel as though you are the person who has put forth the least amount of effort and visibility in pushing them. I think wolves being aggressively pushing someone is not out of the question, but if SM is town then I would say that wolves probably are trying to be a bit more considerate in pushing there and maintaining a more positive image which I think lines up more closely with how you've treated your suspicion on SM veruses someone like leetic for example.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

The implication is that right now you are doing both, but more of the former than the latter right now which is why currently I have you down as a little more Town than not. Very quick to change though.

What important issues do you think I distracted the thread from?

 

[neopest]

Also while I'm here @Reiji

I find your interpretation of me and FA going at each other a bit odd. The way you've phrased the read is that we could be wolf OR independent versus town. Do you not agree that a wolf would play differently from an independent? Personally I believe an independent would fall more towards playing in a town mindset than a wolf. Just wondering what lead you to that conclusion.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

@neopest @Kaiveran Since this is your first game here, it might be useful to know that you can ISO someone by clicking "Who Replied?"

View attachment 153798
You're welcome

I'm having trouble using the ISO stuff and finding the correct posts

Quoted the post where I explained it

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Personally I believe an independent would fall more towards playing in a town mindset than a wolf.

It depends on the type of independent. For example, if their wincon is making sure a certain player dies, their read on that player may be just as contrived as a wolf's.

 

[neopest]

It depends on the type of independent. For example, if their wincon is making sure a certain player dies, their read on that player may be just as contrived as a wolf's.

I agree with this, but I do think it's a bit broad at this current point in time and was wondering what specifically made Reiji think of independent.

 

[Reiji]

What important issues do you think I distracted the thread from?

I can't say anything specifically (i.e. grab posts) off the top of my head, but I think sometimes saying so much to people can do the following:

• Give them several means of just replying to you rather than saying anything new
• In turn, not allowing themselves much opportunity to open up naturally and therefore reveal any holes in logic etc, as they're just countering your points

Taking Caps as an example, I feel that after you stopped pressuring him so much, he's now had to say and do a few things which has started being flagged by players as odd.

Also while I'm here @Reiji

I find your interpretation of me and FA going at each other a bit odd. The way you've phrased the read is that we could be wolf OR independent versus town. Do you not agree that a wolf would play differently from an independent? Personally I believe an independent would fall more towards playing in a town mindset than a wolf. Just wondering what lead you to that conclusion.

Do I agree that Wolf and Independent would play differently? No. Do I agree they COULD? Yes. Using "personally" kinda shows the main reason why as much as your point is valid, so is mine.

Essentially - right now I find your responses to be a bit more, er, aggressive in reaction (especially to FA) whereas FA has not been the same towards you. Right now therefore yes, I think FA is the more Town out of you two but based on the above sentence this could easily flip around to a Wolf/Independent (FA) that has been currently playing Town (you in this case) for a fool and got you killed.

The only reason I have you down as the not-Town person right now, is because based on FA's responses versus yours, I believe the latter scenario is less likely.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I agree with this, but I do think it's a bit broad at this current point in time and was wondering what specifically made Reiji think of independent.

Can I see you perform a trustfall on each player as well?

 

[Kaiveran]

A precious few more moments....

@Reiji I think someone else mentioned something similar to what you did re: Soul but I lost track of it. I'm p. Sure that's my main sticking point, it's not usually this unclear or vague why he's going a certain direction

@neopest has your mind changed on HD and why?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Essentially - right now I find your responses to be a bit more, er, aggressive in reaction (especially to FA) whereas FA has not been the same towards you. Right now therefore yes, I think FA is the more Town out of you two but based on the above sentence this could easily flip around to a Wolf/Independent (FA) that has been currently playing Town (you in this case) for a fool and got you killed.

The only reason I have you down as the not-Town person right now, is because based on FA's responses versus yours, I believe the latter scenario is less likely.

Is there a reason why you seemingly aren't considering t/t?

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

In turn, not allowing themselves much opportunity to open up naturally and therefore reveal any holes in logic etc, as they're just countering your points

You can't just wait for activity to happen, you have to make it happen yourself. You can also tell a lot about someone's alignment based on how they respond to pressure, and getting their points elaborated increases their worldview. What exactly makes a response to my question less "natural" than a post not responding to anyone in particular? I'd argue it's the other way around, since the former needs to be off the cuff

 

[Reiji]

Is there a reason why you seemingly aren't considering t/t?

If I keep progressing like I have previously where I caution every one of my reads, it's not going to get me anywhere. Right now this is something I am feeling a little more certain on, that the interaction is between a Town member and a non-Town member and therefore I need to be sticking to that/pushing if needed. If nothing else, answering it either way will help me with other reads etc. I have in the game and I think will help with others' too.

Right now therefore, I think considering a T/T in this scenario is detrimental for me. If someone else thinks it isn't and wants to highlight to me why, please be my guest.

You can't just wait for activity to happen, you have to make it happen yourself. You can also tell a lot about someone's alignment based on how they respond to pressure, and getting their points elaborated increases their worldview. What exactly makes a response to my question less "natural" than a post not responding to anyone in particular? I'd argue it's the other way around, since the former needs to be off the cuff

I never said it needs to stop entirely, but there is a difference between making activity happen and the level you are sometimes going to.

Also the former doesn't need to be off the cuff at all, someone can literally just not respond for a while and formulate a response. Hounding them as much as you have been means they don't get as much of a chance to come up with something that feels off, because they can just formulate responses to counter what you are asking of them, which if done right means they've managed an airtight defence and you've not gained a lot out of it. I'm not saying that applying no pressure is better off, just that I've observed and feel that I've got more out of Caps from him not having to respond to you over him when he was constantly harangued by you.