What would you do about HM Moves?

[Misty-Moo]

What would you do about HM Moves?
​

I've seen lots of posts here berating HM moves, so I thought it was time for a more constructive discussion.
I play lots of ROM hacks, where the base power or typing of HMs are altered to make them more useful.
Alternatively the player is given adventure items - axe, sledgehammer, surfboard, etc.

One thing I thought of would be a Ghost or Dark type move that made the player invisible or darkened the area (from the point of view of NPCs & wild Pokemon).
This would be introduced in the game's storyline when eg. the player has to sneak into the evil team's base unnoticed/observe them in secret to discover their plans, or <insert Legendary Pokemon here> is on a rampage & you have to sneak past it in order to get help.
It would also be useful for avoiding encounters when your Pokemon are weak/unfit to battle so you could get to the Pokemon Centre safely & could also be used in battle to reduce the opponent's accuracy/increase your Pokemon's evasiveness.

Ghost type -
Blur
PP - 15
Power - N/A
Accuracy - 100%
Effect -
In battle - increases your Pokemon's evasiveness by one stage (duration - 5 rounds)
On map - makes player invisible to NPCs & wild Pokemon for 100 steps

Dark type -
Dark Veil
PP - 15
Power - N/A
Accuracy - 100%
Effect -
In battle - reduces opponent's accuracy by one stage (duration - 5 rounds)
On map - makes player invisible to NPCs & wild Pokemon for 100 steps


So, what are your thoughts? Would you improve/change HM moves? Can you think of any new ones? Or, would you like to see them removed altogether in favour of adventure items?

Note to Mods - I couldn't find a thread like this as the search function isn't working for me at the moment, if there is one, please close this.

 

[kaiomann]

I would broaden up the HMs, making more moves act as terrain moves. For example, everything that involves cutting or clawing can cut down trees: Slash, Cut, Metal Claw, Dragon Claw and so on... The same with Rock Smash.
Fly and all other water HMs would be relying on the pokemons height, level or overall "strength". Basically you won't be able to fly on your level 2 pidgey or dive on your level 3 luvdisc.

 

[Kallyle]

I assume that the only reason we still have HMs is because Game Freak needs to give you roadblacks that aren't random NPCs, so I propose the following:

At some point in the game, after teaching your Pokémon an HM, you could go to a guy that would not only delete the move, but convert it into a Key Item that you can use. However, you'd have to gain said Key Items by teaching your Pokémon that move first, just so the HM disks wouldn't become completely useless. Also, only the Pokémon's move would be converted, not the HM itself.

 

[Bolt Strike]

The problem with the Key Item idea is that it defeats the spirit of the game. HMs are likely implemented the way they are to enforce the idea of people and Pokemon working together by having Pokemon play into the exploration. So I don't think they'll get rid of the HM system entirely. It's not inherently flawed anyway, the problem is that you need to waste a move slot to use it. Why should certain moves be mandatory to progress? Especially if said move is weak or otherwise undesirable (which is pretty much every move except Surf, Fly, Waterfall, and Strength depending on who you talk to)? The best solutions would be along the lines of having a separate move set for field moves or making them inherent actions like abilities are. Pretty much any idea that removes battle moves from the equation would be good.

 

[Osprey]

I would keep HM moves around, but also have stronger variations of the weaker moves. For example, Slash would be able to cut down small trees, and Brick Break could smash boulders.

Also, Hm moves should become forgettable. Come on, even if you do run into an obstacle in the middle of your journey, you can re-use the HM anyways. It's never made sense as to why Pokemon can't forget those moves (with the exception of Surf in the middle of Surfing, I guess). It's very inconvenient.

 

[Te-em]

Rather than teaching the Pokemon the HM, any Pokemon that can learn the HM should use it when it's needed. Then, you won't lose a slot for a useful attack. And the HMs should be faster to use. Since you can leave water by just touching land, you should be able to get into the water without being asked. Smashing rocks may require Yes/No from the player, but then the animation should be short, which it is not today. I think GSC was efficient; no slow animations and you didn't have to open the menu as in Gen 1.

HMs should still be able to be used as TMs, however, because HMs like Surf and Waterfall are good.

 

[Saucedo]

I would have them listed as skills. So you initially teach a Pokemon a HM, and as well as the move, to be used in battle such as surf, waterfall, they also gain the skill, ie to carry people on their back, cut trees etc, even when you delete the move, the Pokemon still remembers the skill. The interface would be the same as now, either press a on the object and be asked if you want to use the skill, or go to a Pokemon, and click which one you want to use.

There'd be no limit so if a Pokemon can learn 5 HM's they can have all 5 skills on at the same time etc.

So you still have Pokemon helping you on your journey other than items, but it doesnt take up an unnecesary move slot, and can be deleted like any normal move.

 

[henrymidfields]

Actually make HM moves useful in battle.
The first thing that should be done is this. Basically re-type any Normal-type HM moves and tweak the properties:

- Strength should be Fighting-Special, 100% Accuracy, and 70-80 Power (basically a weaker/more accurate version of Focus Blast), and it should be made available to more of Psychic/Ghost types where appropriate.

- Cut should be Grass-Physical, 100% Accuracy (basically a weaker/more widely distributed version of Leaf Blade), and it should be made available to more Electric/Fire-type Pokémon where appropriate.

- Rock Climb should be Rock-Physical, 90% Accuracy (basically a weaker/more widely distributed version of Rock Slide), and it should be made available to appropriate Grass/Bug types.

- Rock Smash should be 30 Power with 30 additional Power for every consecutive use. (basically a Fighting-type version of Fury Cutter)

If we have to use field moves, then at least said moves should be purposed for super-effective damage, whether STAB or as a counter. I would have happily taught my Typholosion (in my old Silver/Crystal) HM Cut if it meant being able to counter Water, Rock, and Ground-types. Gengar in my XY would have Strength for not only pushing boulders, but to also deal with Steel and Dark types too. Ditto with Venusaur (in Gen 4 at least), Rock Climb, and Fire/Flying/Bug types.

 

[godiego]

I assume that the only reason we still have HMs is because Game Freak needs to give you roadblacks that aren't random NPCs

XY doesn't, off the top of my head, only has one HM-roadblock outside of Victory Road: Route 12. This means they can really take more liberty in their route and region design. This is especially important if they want to start moving towards a more story-oriented game where it's easier to implement non-HM roadblocks.

 

[Peaceful Giraffe]

MAKE THEM DELETABLE

 

[Seppe]

Can't make them deletable right off the bat, otherwise some poor sop would get himself stuck somewhere.

Pacifidlog Town, delete Surf for super-cool level-up move, release the 'mon, no money for Pokéballs to catch another - GG.

On the other hand, purists would moan if their HMs were done away with entirely, and it is a cool concept to have your 'mons help you travel.

Simplest fix would be to unlock the field move for every Pokémon able to use the HM once you got the corresponding badge. So, if Ecruteak Gym's Fog Badge mysteriously allows your Pokémon to use Surf outside of battle, all Surfers would be able to do so without learning the move. Learning the move for use in-battle would be optional, and this would still be done with the HM discs.

Once you got all 8 badges in Hoenn, any Gyarados you owned could use Surf, Strength, Waterfall, Rock Smash, and Dive outside of battle, plus have 4 different in-battle moves if you so choose.

This allows HMs to remain and be deletable, although there would still need to be a block on releasing your last Pokémon with a certain field move (like Surf in example above).

 

[Muur]

I'd keep them and just have them be deletable whenever you want.

 

[GhostFingers]

Several options come to mind. The one involving the least changes i can think of is to just have the move deleter accessible MUCH earlier. It's ridiculous to have to wait until after your 6th or 7th badge before deleting cut from something that needed it at the time.