Why do people hate Gen 4 and 5 so much?

[Lysson]

Yes it has some rather 'unoriginal' Pokemon in it but so does gen 1 and every other gen has had it's down moments.

1st gen Pokemon aren't unoriginal for the simple fact that they were the first of their kind. It's hard to rip off something that didn't exist yet.

Ah I see, I must be mistaken in what 'original' means xD sorry about that, I assumed it meant kinda unimaginative.

 

[RTA fan]

i'm alright with pokemon B2W2, but BW seem a bit slow after playing it more than once. not to mention Black and White are like gen 1 in some areas of gameplay. think about it: you can only catch pokemon from that region, the villain team's leader wants world domination in gen 1 and 5, and there is a Ghost type elite four member and a fighting type elite four member in Unova - just like Bruno and Agatha in red and blue. it has traces of gen 2 as well, with caitlin using psychic types, like will, and Grimsley using dark types- like karen.

 

[Bland Mango]

Must have taken my finger off the pulse, thought it was Gen 3 (RSE specifically) that everyone hated?

I loved Gen 4, it felt the most complete we've ever had, and it was made all the better by HGSS included as well. I loved Platinum and the creation story and the Sinnoh region as well. TBH I thought Gen 4 would have been the perfect ending to the franchise it was so good.

But just as well it wasn't as Gen 5 came out and while initially BW was a little underwhelming when you pair it up with BW2, it had probably the best story of any generation. For the first time I actually cared about the characters involved, and felt really sorry for N. Only thing it was missing was the original dragon should have been available. Possibly Kyurem fused with Reshiram and Zekrom

 

[ArvAl]

I think why people hate it so much because in pc the data is too much to be run with the emulators and often got errors (True experience).

 

[Master Weasel]

i'm alright with pokemon B2W2, but BW seem a bit slow after playing it more than once. not to mention Black and White are like gen 1 in some areas of gameplay. think about it: you can only catch pokemon from that region, the villain team's leader wants world domination in gen 1 and 5, and there is a Ghost type elite four member and a fighting type elite four member in Unova - just like Bruno and Agatha in red and blue. it has traces of gen 2 as well, with caitlin using psychic types, like will, and Grimsley using dark types- like karen.

In addition, Hilbert's and Hilda's design seems to be loosely based on Red.

 

[Vanyss]

Gen 4 hate? It is actually one of my favorite generation and it was pokemon Pearl that drew me back into the world of pokemon. While it struck me as decent and mediocre at first, it grew on me over time and I started to really apreciate the 4th generation. It had great sound tracks, interesting new pokemon and a region filled with mythology. The games atleast tried to give you a decent rival. And in hindsight the evil team wasn't all that bad.

Gen 5 is a different story. I won't say I "hate" it - I have never hated any of the pokemon main series. I just don't like it as much as the other generations. They get points for trying, but it ends on the 5th place in my ranking list. (Although I really enjoyed BW2).

 

[Almonds]

N was everything about Gen5. Hate denied.

I mentioned this in another thread, but N was advertised everywhere - literally everywhere for marketing purposes. It meant he was popular - one of the main selling points. I still do not believe Gen5 received hate when N was popular to the point of being overhyped - because it means people liked him and the game he was featured in.

N hype = Gen5 hype
N being popular = Gen5 being popular

Pro logic.

 

[TerraTF]

Actually, the two generations that I dislike, to the point that I still don't have interest in playing would be Gen 3 and Gen 4. Or more particularly, Hoenn and Shinnoh.

Gen 1 (Red) was actually the second game for me, so it was interesting to find out what happened 3 years prior. I only knew about the taking over of Silph after i played Silver. In addition, I watched the Pokemon anime from the Kanto saga to the end of Johto, so it was fascinating to see how the anime would turn out. Many of my favorite Pokemon are in this generation too (Pikachu, Bulbasaur etc).

Silver was actually the first game that I played. Upon learning that I could go to Kanto after becoming Champion, I was keen on finishing the game. And how happy that I did. As the first Pokemon game that I played, the game that spans two regions, and the game that continued the story from Kanto, the Johto games have a special place in my heart.

Which made RSE all the more disappointing; I regard this gen as the biggest backflip in the franchise. There was the lack of time feature, initially not bring able to catch 'em all, and most of all, a poke-Japan region completely isolated from the rest of the country. (There are some good Polemon that I caught for my XY, though; Gardevoir and Blaziken comes to my mind quickly.) That was when I stopped playing Pokemon until XY were released last year. I'm probably going to be the minority here - not too keen for a Hoenn remake to be honest.

Shinnoh wasn't any more appealing, either. I guess I've moved onto other things at this point.

Unova and Kalos, on the other hand were really refreshing. Biggest reason being that, so far, the two regions that are based outside of Japan. And both seem to have various interesting references to their respective souces. And upon playing both, the in-game scenery is so much detailed. Unova's got a great storyline, philosophy, and drama. Kalos on the other hand, has streamlined battles, nicely done online features, and beautiful 3D landscapes/battle scenes. I also liked how I can customize my clothes in Kalos. Also, the characters' fashion in both regions looks really appealing. Especially Serena, Hilda, and Rosa are my favorites.

Initially, I played Y first, then moved to Black, so I didn't really feel the supposed 'backflip' that some people did.

Anyway generations that I like are 1, 2, 5, and 6! 3 and 4, I'm afraid I'm hardly a fan of.

Your main complaint seems to be that both Hoenn and Sinnoh had no access to Kanto. And you are wrong. Hoenn could reach Kanto through FRLG and Sinnoh could reach it through HGSS. There is no reason for every game to have Kanto as a second reason. Honestly Kanto is the worst region we've had to date.

 

[Norzan]

N was everything about Gen5. Hate denied.

I mentioned this in another thread, but N was advertised everywhere - literally everywhere for marketing purposes. It meant he was popular - one of the main selling points. I still do not believe Gen5 received hate when N was popular to the point of being overhyped - because it means people liked him and the game he was featured in.

N hype = Gen5 hype
N being popular = Gen5 being popular

Pro logic.

Gen 5 is easily the most hated Gen of all and i'm not saying this out of hate since i like Gen 5 but you have no idea how much hate Gen 5 gets and it's the main target of the "Gen 1 fans" hate.

 

[Almonds]

N was everything about Gen5. Hate denied.

I mentioned this in another thread, but N was advertised everywhere - literally everywhere for marketing purposes. It meant he was popular - one of the main selling points. I still do not believe Gen5 received hate when N was popular to the point of being overhyped - because it means people liked him and the game he was featured in.

N hype = Gen5 hype
N being popular = Gen5 being popular

Pro logic.

Gen 5 is easily the most hated Gen of all and i'm not saying this out of hate since i like Gen 5 but you have no idea how much hate Gen 5 gets and it's the main target of the "Gen 1 fans" hate.

And I don't want to know how much friggin hate Gen 5 is getting or what the haters are rubbing in everywhere and there seriously is no need. Is there a reason to get involved with haters when people who love Gen 5 are perfectly happy and satisfied? There's no reason to deliberately say "I know you like this game, but do you know just how many people hate this to death?" It's like going up to a kid who is happily eating his ice cream and saying "Did you know that everyone else is disgusted with that flavor? I'll explain it to you". I am tired with this thread title popping up on my screen with posts explaining about what the haters probably think about this game. WHO CARES. I love Cranidos. I love N. I like Gen 4 and Gen 5 a lot and I think both of them have great replay values despite the flaws many would point out. I played pokemons games ever since Gen 1 and despite the weak points in every game, despite the need for improvement in every game, I like every one of the pokemon games I played.

Complaints and disappointments on the games are cool - it means people who played the game want better games in the future, and they want to see Game Freak improve. They want a better story, better graphics, better character/monster designs, and better system controls, etc. It's good wanting, hoping and imagining if games were created in a different way. It means they care, and they still support pokemon and are looking forward to what the next games might be like. Looking forward to possible improvements are good.

But is there really a reason to dwell on the reasons for the hate? Why care about the hate? Haters are going to hate on the games no matter what. It is the constructive criticism that helps and leaves room for good discussion, not the pointless, wasteful flaming. Discussing on Gen 4 and Gen 5 hate reasons is only going to leave bad tastes when using the time to find more good points and discussing possible future improvements and sharing ideas what the games might be with or without a certain feature would be positive and prosperous. Hate only generates more hate - and I think we've had enough hate.

Hate denied.

 

[Norzan]

N was everything about Gen5. Hate denied.

I mentioned this in another thread, but N was advertised everywhere - literally everywhere for marketing purposes. It meant he was popular - one of the main selling points. I still do not believe Gen5 received hate when N was popular to the point of being overhyped - because it means people liked him and the game he was featured in.

N hype = Gen5 hype
N being popular = Gen5 being popular

Pro logic.

Gen 5 is easily the most hated Gen of all and i'm not saying this out of hate since i like Gen 5 but you have no idea how much hate Gen 5 gets and it's the main target of the "Gen 1 fans" hate.

And I don't want to know how much friggin hate Gen 5 is getting or what the haters are rubbing in everywhere and there seriously is no need. Is there a reason to get involved with haters when people who love Gen 5 are perfectly happy and satisfied? There's no reason to deliberately say "I know you like this game, but do you know just how many people hate this to death?" It's like going up to a kid who is happily eating his ice cream and saying "Did you know that everyone else is disgusted with that flavor? I'll explain it to you". I am tired with this thread title popping up on my screen with posts explaining about what the haters probably think about this game. WHO CARES. I love Cranidos. I love N. I like Gen 4 and Gen 5 a lot and I think both of them have great replay values despite the flaws many would point out. I played pokemons games ever since Gen 1 and despite the weak points in every game, despite the need for improvement in every game, I like every one of the pokemon games I played.

Complaints and disappointments on the games are cool - it means people who played the game want better games in the future, and they want to see Game Freak improve. They want a better story, better graphics, better character/monster designs, and better system controls, etc. It's good wanting, hoping and imagining if games were created in a different way. It means they care, and they still support pokemon and are looking forward to what the next games might be like. Looking forward to possible improvements are good.

But is there really a reason to dwell on the reasons for the hate? Why care about the hate? Haters are going to hate on the games no matter what. It is the constructive criticism that helps and leaves room for good discussion, not the pointless, wasteful flaming. Discussing on Gen 4 and Gen 5 hate reasons is only going to leave bad tastes when using the time to find more good points and discussing possible future improvements and sharing ideas what the games might be with or without a certain feature would be positive and prosperous. Hate only generates more hate - and I think we've had enough hate.

Hate denied.

Jeez, i was just saying....sigh.

 

[Vanyss]

I guess each generation gets its hate. But I was under the impression that gen 5 was well loved. Wasn't it gen 5 that got perfect score on its reviews upon release? And that was praised for its depth (which I consider overrated, but thats a different story). Even though gen 5 is for from my favorite, I thought most people actually liked it.

 

[henrymidfields]

Your main complaint seems to be that both Hoenn and Sinnoh had no access to Kanto. And you are wrong. Hoenn could reach Kanto through FRLG and Sinnoh could reach it through HGSS. There is no reason for every game to have Kanto as a second reason. Honestly Kanto is the worst region we've had to date.

I never said that I specifically wanted access to Kanto from Hoenn or Shinnoh, I meant that my main complaint is that I can't travel to other Poke-Japan regions within the same game - when I should be logically able to. Probably in this case, I would like to have Hoenn -> Johto in RSE, and Shinnoh -> Hoenn in DPPt. (I consider FRLG and HGSS as different games to RSE and DPPt.) Combined Kanto-Johto in GSC was special for me specifically because it really shows that the two regions are part of a bigger geographical entity, which I regard as the nation of Poke-Japan. Hoenn/Shinnoh doesn't have that same feel that they're part of Poke-Japan. In regards to you not liking Kanto, are you talking about the original GSC/RBY? Or FRLG/HGSS? If it's the former, then I'll have to say this: You know you're comparing something from GB and something from GBA/DS/3DS right? Of course Kanto's going to look barren by today's standards! Of course, if it's the latter, then I guess I can't argue against that.

 

[TerraTF]

I never said that I specifically wanted access to Kanto from Hoenn or Shinnoh, I meant that my main complaint is that I can't travel to other Poke-Japan regions within the same game - when I should be logically able to. Probably in this case, I would like to have Hoenn -> Johto in RSE, and Shinnoh -> Hoenn in DPPt. (I consider FRLG and HGSS as different games to RSE and DPPt.) Combined Kanto-Johto in GSC was special for me specifically because it really shows that the two regions are part of a bigger geographical entity, which I regard as the nation of Poke-Japan. Hoenn/Shinnoh doesn't have that same feel that they're part of Poke-Japan.

If you remember how barren Kanto was in GSC and HGSS, you'd just end up with a barren Johto / Kanto and a barren Hoenn. RSE and DPPt didn't have access to other regions because they had a standalone league. Johto and Kanto were technically one league.

In regards to you not liking Kanto, are you talking about the original GSC/RBY? Or FRLG/HGSS? If it's the former, then I'll have to say this: You know you're comparing something from GB and something from GBA/DS/3DS right? Of course Kanto's going to look barren by today's standards! Of course, if it's the latter, then I guess I can't argue against that.

Kanto was the weakest due to it being the first in the series. And even in the remakes and GCS/HGSS it's still a very weak area considering it was based on Japan's main Metropolitan area.

 

[henrymidfields]

If you remember how barren Kanto was in GSC and HGSS...

It probably is if I started playing GSC after playing BW. However, if GSC Kanto really was barren even when compared to RBY, then I didn't notice this at all when I played Silver/Crystal back in 1999-2001. Back then, I was totally excited in being able to travel to an older region and see what changed 3 years later, being able to see the old gym leaders, and being able to battle Red. Otherwise, agreed, by today's standards, Kanto hasn't aged very well, and will need a massive overhaul should GF ever revisit the region.

 

[RTA fan]

there are things from each gen that i like. In Gen 1, there was the simplicity and the fact that you didn't need strategy (not like i ever have one)
Gen 2 introduced the tougher gym leaders (we all know who i'm on about)
Gen 3 introduced a lot of stuff i like
Gen 4 allowed you to walk with Pokemon
Gen 5 introduced... B2W2
Gen 6 introduced mega evolutions
i wasn't saying i hate gen 4 earlier, i was simply saying i like the other generations more.

 

[Osprey]

I think the "hate" that's doled out to every recent game is a result of (lack of) nostalgia. Even if the masses delighted in bashing Gen. III, after a long time, it all kinda falls in with the rest of Pokemon, the eventually forget the nitpicky crap they gave the games hell for, and then all the sudden, they love them again.

I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen with B/W. And at least the Vanniluxe family was usable in battles- they could kick dragon rear if raised right. And B/W is easily my favorite pair of pokemon games, and one of my favorite games overall. They took a very unique twist with the ending. I mean, in most of the regions, you usually stopped the villains right before the legendary Pokemon; you defeat the boss, you catch the game mascot, all usually before you even have your last badge. IMO, when the bad guys are gone, that's really where the story ends.

If B/W had gone the same way, there wouldn't be any of this "double dragon/hero" myth, and N would probably summon the dragon at Dragonspiral Tower, only to be defeated. Player then catches said summoned dragon. What they did instead was make the evil team the climax of the game, and instead of fighting the champion, entering hall of fame, yadda yadda yadda, the player instead fights the one more powerful than the champion... and Ghetsis. See, unlike Gen. IV, the game gives you a better reason to charge the Elite Four, plus you need to fight them without an OP deity on your side.

Oh, and the music. I don't care what you say, but Gen. V had some of the best scores, especially with Gym Leader battles, N battle, and the credits. Really, it's the only game in the series that has high-tempo epic music for the credits, not some sleepy "game is done now" lullaby.

 

[Nick102]

I haven't really had anything against Gen 4, but Gen 5 is where I think all of the newer Pokémon really lost their appeal for me until X & Y came out. I can hardly think of a Pokémon out of Gen 5 that I find all that appealing.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I think the "hate" that's doled out to every recent game is a result of (lack of) nostalgia. Even if the masses delighted in bashing Gen. III, after a long time, it all kinda falls in with the rest of Pokemon, the eventually forget the nitpicky crap they gave the games hell for, and then all the sudden, they love them again.

I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen with B/W. And at least the Vanniluxe family was usable in battles- they could kick dragon rear if raised right. And B/W is easily my favorite pair of pokemon games, and one of my favorite games overall. They took a very unique twist with the ending. I mean, in most of the regions, you usually stopped the villains right before the legendary Pokemon; you defeat the boss, you catch the game mascot, all usually before you even have your last badge. IMO, when the bad guys are gone, that's really where the story ends.

If B/W had gone the same way, there wouldn't be any of this "double dragon/hero" myth, and N would probably summon the dragon at Dragonspiral Tower, only to be defeated. Player then catches said summoned dragon. What they did instead was make the evil team the climax of the game, and instead of fighting the champion, entering hall of fame, yadda yadda yadda, the player instead fights the one more powerful than the champion... and Ghetsis. See, unlike Gen. IV, the game gives you a better reason to charge the Elite Four, plus you need to fight them without an OP deity on your side.

Oh, and the music. I don't care what you say, but Gen. V had some of the best scores, especially with Gym Leader battles, N battle, and the credits. Really, it's the only game in the series that has high-tempo epic music for the credits, not some sleepy "game is done now" lullaby.

I'm not so sure they will. A lot of the things that people are complaining about 5th gen for are general design and gameplay decisions, namely that the gameplay is dumbed down through linear region design, lack of difficulty, removal of fan favorite features, etc. And sadly, that problem hasn't gone away in XY, and people are continuing to complain about it. I don't think that feeling will go away in time, especially if they continue in this direction for future games, so not as many people will have fond memories for 5th and 6th gen as they do for past gens.

 

[Silverwynde]

I think the "hate" that's doled out to every recent game is a result of (lack of) nostalgia. Even if the masses delighted in bashing Gen. III, after a long time, it all kinda falls in with the rest of Pokemon, the eventually forget the nitpicky crap they gave the games hell for, and then all the sudden, they love them again.

I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen with B/W. And at least the Vanniluxe family was usable in battles- they could kick dragon rear if raised right. And B/W is easily my favorite pair of pokemon games, and one of my favorite games overall. They took a very unique twist with the ending. I mean, in most of the regions, you usually stopped the villains right before the legendary Pokemon; you defeat the boss, you catch the game mascot, all usually before you even have your last badge. IMO, when the bad guys are gone, that's really where the story ends.

If B/W had gone the same way, there wouldn't be any of this "double dragon/hero" myth, and N would probably summon the dragon at Dragonspiral Tower, only to be defeated. Player then catches said summoned dragon. What they did instead was make the evil team the climax of the game, and instead of fighting the champion, entering hall of fame, yadda yadda yadda, the player instead fights the one more powerful than the champion... and Ghetsis. See, unlike Gen. IV, the game gives you a better reason to charge the Elite Four, plus you need to fight them without an OP deity on your side.

Oh, and the music. I don't care what you say, but Gen. V had some of the best scores, especially with Gym Leader battles, N battle, and the credits. Really, it's the only game in the series that has high-tempo epic music for the credits, not some sleepy "game is done now" lullaby.

I'm not so sure they will. A lot of the things that people are complaining about 5th gen for are general design and gameplay decisions, namely that the gameplay is dumbed down through linear region design, lack of difficulty, removal of fan favorite features, etc. And sadly, that problem hasn't gone away in XY, and people are continuing to complain about it. I don't think that feeling will go away in time, especially if they continue in this direction for future games, so not as many people will have fond memories for 5th and 6th gen as they do for past gens.

People couldn't stand Gen III for the longest time, as they couldn't port any of their old 'Mons to the game. There was a lot of hate for Hoenn. Even I have to admit that I wasn't as fond of Gen III as I was the prior ones. But now that it's been a number of years, things have changed. Now we're seeing a huge shift and a lot of fans want to revisit Hoenn. I'm willing to bet that in five or six years, attitudes will shift and a lot of fans will be crying for a Unova remake, as they remember "how awesome it was".

And before you ask, I liked the fact that Unova was linear. I was irritated when I played Pearl that I have to hit Hearthome twice before I could get my Badge. Glad that was cleared up in Platinum but still!

On topic: The major problem I had with Gen IV was the sheer amount of Legends you could find in Sinnoh. It was ridiculous: kick over that boulder.... Oh wait, better not! That boulder's actually a Legendary Pokemon. It was over the top madness; we had trios and duos and trio masters and a sea prince and everything in between. Yeah, that was a bit much.

It also didn't help that we didn't get a lot of Sinnoh Pokemon. A lot of the Poke Dex consisted of upgrades to older 'Mons, which left the native Sinnoh Pokes out in the cold. Sure, some of those upgrades were awesome--Electivire, anyone?--but some weren't really needed. The actual Sinnoh Dex is pretty small and you can complete it in a couple of hours if you're so inclined. Believe me, I've done it; the Sinnoh portion of the National Dex was done in one evening in about two hours when I was playing Black 2. I fill everything in by Region and family tree, so most of the upgrades were already there. I just needed the rodent, the bird, the fossils, etc. It took me no time at all.

My one and only complaint over Gen V is this: it's far too short. Gen IV gets an eight year stint on the GTS. Gen V gets about four. Me personally, I can't really call that fair. Lot of trades will be left undone because of that and it sucks.