Your controversial opinions

[StormyStinger]

XY was a full enough story to make a hypothetical Z game unnecessary.

Counterpoint: Zygarde is cool and deserves his own game, even if it's a spinoff.

 

[Pasio]

XY was a full enough story to make a hypothetical Z game unnecessary.

I'd argue this is the case when you combine ORAS and the Alolan games, as they continued on the whole infinity energy story and while they kinda just made Zygarde a fetch quest, they implemented it in a way that made complete sense for its lore.

I do however think the story behind AZ and his Floette is explained enough as is, but it would always be cool to see more of them in.

Personally in regards to Zygarde in XY specifically, I wish that if they weren't gonna make a game for it they still would have at least given it Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves, Core Enforcer, make its BST like 680, and maybe have a slightly better ability, all in Gen 6 Make it viable in Ubers, then bring the complete forme next generation or smth. I honestly don't really care that it never got an arc in the story where it was only gonna show up for a few minutes to do something that may or may not be relevant to its lore at all. I think the way they handled Zygarde in SM was better than the way most legendaries with their own games were handled. It also has just about as much lore as third legendaries like Giratina and Rayquaza and was about as fleshed out as they were despite not even having a game.

 

[Poke Dragon]

I think that the problem with Zygarde that many had a problem with was probably because to get access to its 50% and Complete forms in SM it was basically forcing the player to look for its parts.

But truthfully, I actually never had a problem with Zygarde in SM and in fact, I actually enjoyed having a legendary Pokemon fairly early on in my team and one in which you had to actively explore every place to find its cells and cores for you to have access to more of its forms. But I do have a problem with some of the cells practically being out of reach until the post-game because it meant that the Complete form wasn't usable in the first Elite 4 run. But USUM simply decided to make Zygarde just another obtainable legendary with nothing special about it, unlike in SM, which kind of made me not want to use it in USUM. But I can see why they did it since Necrozma is the Pokemon of focus in the Ultra games.

In fact, I'll go as far as to say that obtaining legendaries during the main story that's still far from the climax should definitely continue.

 

[Bolt Strike]

XY was a full enough story to make a hypothetical Z game unnecessary.

Vehemently disagree here. XY's story was extremely shallow and needed a Z version to flesh it out. There was really... almost nothing to the story until the final confrontation with Team Flare, and even that doesn't have much to it. The story is pretty much just "Team Flare is doing bad stuff for some mysterious reason. Oh, it's because they think there's too much people so they're going to kill everyone. Hooray, we stopped them. The End". I don't see how ANYONE can consider that "full enough", there are a few aspects of the story that need expansion to fully explain the story:

1. The role of Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde in the Kalos region. They're just sort of... there. Xerneas/Yveltal is just a glorified battery for the Ultimate Weapon, and Zygarde's (later revealed to be 50% form) is just chilling in Terminus Cave. Why? What significance do they have to the Kalos region? Where is Xerneas/Yveltal's natural habitat in the Kalos region and why do they live there? Do they have something to do with Mega Evolution and Infinity Energy? Why does Zygarde's 50% form reside in Terminus Cave? Is there something special about it that causes many of the cells/cores to gather there? For mascot legendaries there is far too little lore about them in their native region.

2. Malva's role in Team Flare. Post game she reveals herself to be a Team Flare admin. Um... what? So WTF were you doing during the Ultimate Weapon crisis? Why did we never confront her there? What does she do for Team Flare? Again, she's just sort of there and there's so much more potential in having an Elite 4 member and the Holo Caster reporter being an evil team admin, but all they use her for is to reveal post game that Team Flare is responsible for the Essentia incident. Such a huge waste.

And no, Zygarde being shoved into the anime or SM didn't really help it. The anime is a different continuity and doesn't explain much. Zygarde has almost nothing to do with SM's plot, it shows up just because "there's danger" but Solgaleo/Lunala and the UBs play far bigger roles there. Zygarde needed a significant role in some game's plot.

 

[Pasio]

Vehemently disagree here. XY's story was extremely shallow and needed a Z version to flesh it out. There was really... almost nothing to the story until the final confrontation with Team Flare, and even that doesn't have much to it. The story is pretty much just "Team Flare is doing bad stuff for some mysterious reason. Oh, it's because they think there's too much people so they're going to kill everyone. Hooray, we stopped them. The End". I don't see how ANYONE can consider that "full enough", there are a few aspects of the story that need expansion to fully explain the story:

1. The role of Xerneas, Yveltal, and Zygarde in the Kalos region. They're just sort of... there. Xerneas/Yveltal is just a glorified battery for the Ultimate Weapon, and Zygarde's (later revealed to be 50% form) is just chilling in Terminus Cave. Why? What significance do they have to the Kalos region? Where is Xerneas/Yveltal's natural habitat in the Kalos region and why do they live there? Do they have something to do with Mega Evolution and Infinity Energy? Why does Zygarde's 50% form reside in Terminus Cave? Is there something special about it that causes many of the cells/cores to gather there? For mascot legendaries there is far too little lore about them in their native region.

2. Malva's role in Team Flare. Post game she reveals herself to be a Team Flare admin. Um... what? So WTF were you doing during the Ultimate Weapon crisis? Why did we never confront her there? What does she do for Team Flare? Again, she's just sort of there and there's so much more potential in having an Elite 4 member and the Holo Caster reporter being an evil team admin, but all they use her for is to reveal post game that Team Flare is responsible for the Essentia incident. Such a huge waste.

And no, Zygarde being shoved into the anime or SM didn't really help it. The anime is a different continuity and doesn't explain much. Zygarde has almost nothing to do with SM's plot, it shows up just because "there's danger" but Solgaleo/Lunala and the UBs play far bigger roles there. Zygarde needed a significant role in some game's plot.

The lore of the Gen 6 legendaries is scattered but certainly present, even if we exclude the anime. Xerneas generates life energy and distributes it around, especially in the Kalos region. When its active but nearing its end of being active, it distributes all the life energy it has left to living creates of the land surrounding it, then re-hibernates. When Yveltal is nearing the end of its time being active, it takes life energy from all living creates in the land surrounding it, then re-hibernates. These two Pokemon help balance out the cycle of life and death in the Pokemon world, but this game focuses its context more on the Kalos region.

Sycamore very strongly hints out that the same energy Xerneas distributes is what's responsible for the Mega Evolution phenomenon, and what fired out of AZ's Ultimate Weapon. The XY story later backs this up by trying to use Xerneas as a battery for that weapon, and Zinnia backs up how the energy AZ fired from that weapon was responsible. Not just for mega evolution, but for the Draconids being able to see the existence of alternate universes through distortions between time and space, made by the same energy. Scientists in the Mossdeep Space Center and/or Devon Corp (I forgot) also confirm that what they considered life energy from Xerneas, ended up getting named Infinity Energy.


Xerneas and Yveltal are used as batteries for the Ultimate Weapon, but the Ultimate Weapon itself reflects the characteristics of the entire XY trio. It took life energy from the surrounding Pokemon and channeled it within itself, much like Yveltal does, then it used this life energy to restore a Pokemon back to life, and even made both the Pokemon and its trainer immortal, much like what Xerneas does. Finally, the machine became weaponized and transformed into a weapon in order to end a chaotic event that was caused by order going a bit out of shape. The firing of the weapon itself enforced order, much like what Zygarde does.

We also know from a random NPC in Anistar that both Xerneas and Yveltal were in the war, either trying to save the lives of wounded Pokemon (Xerneas) or causing many more deaths than the war itself was creating (Yveltal).

Now if we include the anime, from this, and the roles Xerneas and Yveltal have to balance out nature, it can be deduced that Kalos was very overpopulated during this time. Both Xerneas and Yveltal were meant to balance out nature. If Yveltal was freely able to commit genocide while Xerneas wasn't reviving Pokemon in return, despite simply being able to if necessary, this is likely the only conclusion we can reach.

This is also what Lysandre emphasized on specifically. Lysandre thought the world was overpopulated and because of its overpopulation, people were fighting among themselves and stealing limited resources for their own selfishness. In order to put an end to this, and prevent situations like the Kalos war from ever happening again, Lysandre thought reducing the population was the most ideal plan. It is confirmed by Masuda that Lysandre's motives were inspired by the desire to end war, rather than anything related to dictatorship in particular, and it makes sense when considering the quotes below, which were said in Lysandre labs.

"I would like to congratulate you as well. Mega Evolution is something I, too, would like to be able to use.
True. I'm a descendant of the king's younger brother. That being said, that story is 3,000 years old, so it might not be entirely reliable.
People can be divided into two groups. Those who give... And those who take... It's just as how the Kalos region's two Legendary Pokémon gave life and took life.
I want to be the kind of person who gives... But in this world, some foolish humans exist who would show their strength by taking what isn't theirs.
They're filth!
Long, long ago, the king of Kalos sought to take everything for his own, and he created a terrible weapon. Then the fire of destruction was unleashed... That is the legend that has been passed down.
Kalos is beautiful right now! There will be no foolish actions if the number of people and Pokémon do not increase. That being said, the future isn't decided. You can't be sure each day will be like the one before.
What the king of Kalos did was reprehensible, but... The ultimate weapon did manage to wash the world clean of that era's filth.
Thank you for listening. Take that as an apology for my taking up your time."



tl;dr the writing of Kalos's lore is scattered all over the place, but it's certainly there. I'll even argue Gen 6 has more lore to it than the likes of Gens 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 9 legendaries.

 

[Juliyet]

I totally get getting three Fire/Fighting starters in a row was a bit fatiguing at the time, but it's been 10+ years and 4 gens since the last one, and we've got other Fire combinations since. I think enough time has passed that I wouldn't be opposed to seeing another Fire/Fighting if they so choose, assuming the execution is good.

 

[Bolt Strike]

@Ransei I guess if you were to really do some digging, you could find that sort of lore, but in terms of the main plot Xerneas/Yveltal's role is nothing more than being a glorified battery for the Ultimate Weapon and Zygarde is a generic post game legendary. Even if the deeper lore is more questionable for the legendaries of some of those other gens you mentioned (not so much Gens 1 and 2, but those are older games with less developed stories and 1st gen doesn't even have legendaries as mascots), their legendaries have more established roles in the plot that place their lore front and center. Groudon and Kyogre's apocalyptic power was at the forefront of RS/ORAS. Rayquaza's role in mediating Groudon and Kyogre's conflict and its Mega form likewise were the focus of Emerald and the Delta Episode. Reshiram and Zekrom allied themselves with heroes of the opposing factions in BW. Kyurem is a bit close to the 6th gen legendaries admittedly (Team Plasma having captured it to power Plasma Frigate felt a bit anticlimactic admittedly), but at least Ghetsis used it at the end to demonstrate its ability absorb Reshiram/Zekrom's power. Solgaleo/Lunala were the key to opening up an Ultra Wormhole and pursuing Lusamine. USUM's story centered around Necrozma stealing Alola's light. Zacian/Zamazenta are "royalty" that helped to end the Darkest Day. Koraidon/Miraidon were the player's steed and traveling companion, and were found to have originated from and be intertwined in Area Zero. Xerneas/Yveltal and Zygarde play much less significant roles than those. They're just... there. Unceremoniously showing up where you would typically expect to see them, with little to no explanation why, and they're all ancillary to the main plot. Perhaps "lore" was the wrong word for this, but that is what I was referring to most of all. They feel like they don't really matter in the plot whereas most other mascots do at least somewhat.

I totally get getting three Fire/Fighting starters in a row was a bit fatiguing at the time, but it's been 10+ years and 4 gens since the last one, and we've got other Fire combinations since. I think enough time has passed that I wouldn't be opposed to seeing another Fire/Fighting if they so choose, assuming the execution is good.

Counterpoint: There's so many other types that Fire can be paired with that haven't even been done yet that should get priority before making a 4th Fire/Fighting type. I mean not counting the other two starter types, Electric (which seems to be treated as a pseudo-starter type), and Normal (which tends to be gimmicky) you still have:

Fire/Rock
Fire/Ground
Fire/Bug
Fire/Poison
Fire/Ice
Fire/Steel
Fire/Fairy

Why can't they do one of those typings next instead of coming back to types like Fire/Fighting (or worse yet, another Fire/Ghost, which after Hisuian Typhlosion and Skeledirge is becoming the new Fire/Fighting)? There's 18 freaking type combinations they could do for the Fire starter FFS and we haven't even done half of these, it's still too early to be revisiting overused type combos again. Talk to me again in Gen 11 or 12 and then maybe we'll have gotten more of these unused combos and bringing back Fire/Fighting will feel more appropriate.

 

[guzmania]

I totally get getting three Fire/Fighting starters in a row was a bit fatiguing at the time, but it's been 10+ years and 4 gens since the last one, and we've got other Fire combinations since. I think enough time has passed that I wouldn't be opposed to seeing another Fire/Fighting if they so choose, assuming the execution is good.

if anything fire/ghost is what i'm beginning to become sick of
i love ghost types and it's a cool combination but i do feel like we've had FAR more of those recently than ever before

 

[Bolt Strike]

if anything fire/ghost is what i'm beginning to become sick of
i love ghost types and it's a cool combination but i do feel like we've had FAR more of those recently than ever before

Well really we've only had 2 Fire/Ghost. It's just that those 2 are the 2 most recent. But yes, I don't want to see Fire/Ghost again next, that would be where Fire/Fighting ended up back then. If they must revisit an old combination, let's see Fire/Flying or Fire/Psychic. Those are old enough to revisit and have only been done once. Steer clear of Fire/Fighting and Fire/Ghost for at least another 2 gens and try and do an unused starter combo. IDK what it is about Fire type that that's the one that has such poor type variety, Grass and Water starters don't have this problem.

 

[Sheep40]

I wanna see the final starter evo's lose their main type.

A method of having the player advance beyond just the infamous fire/grass/water trio.

 

[Poke Dragon]

How about making them another type triangle then? I think Fighting/Dark/Psychic is a good trio.

 

[Sheep40]

That kind of was the plan

 

[Dr. Gro 3001]

Similar to the discourse about having a lot of Fire/Ghost types, we got a lot of Grass/Dark types, especially this generation. I would like to see a hold on that combination for a while.

 

[skynerel]

I prefer Girafarig over its evolution and the same goes for Rhydon and Gligar. I firmly believe that not all pokemon need evolutions and if they need to make them more “relevant” they should update their abilities, movepool and stats.

I also prefer the beta design for girafarig, such a cool concept. At least the essence is still there.

 

[impervious_gakko42]

I think BDSP are good as beginner games and/or if you'd like the gen 4 experience without shelling out absurd amounts of money

do not get me wrong I still feel very ripped off, but maybe others can appreciate the qualities I did not

 

[skynerel]

I don’t get the hype around Nemona. Has she done anything in particular that sets her apart from the other rivals? I keep reading about how great she is, but I’m yet to see reasons as to why that is. Other than “she is happy for you” or something like that. To be fair to her, most of the other rivals aren’t very deep either.

 

[Dr. Gro 3001]

I am not sure how spicy of a take this might be, but I really don't care for Shiny Pokémon. They are a nuisance to hunt, and I typically find most underwhelming. Some just look like the same color but shaded differently or are snot green colored. I don't hate that Pokémon essentially has palette swaps in the games, and I will admit part of my dislike is because I have only caught a few in my 20+ years of playing. But, I really don't care for the shiny hype. That aside, I do think it is dumb that Game Freak/The Pokémon Company shiny lock certain legendries.

 

[Daenerys]

XY was a full enough story to make a hypothetical Z game unnecessary.

The main plot of the games, maybe. But the post-game was too minimalistic, even by Pokemon standards. Imo X/Y were the point where it seemed like Game Freak realized that they could put minimal work into the core games because the success of the franchise by that point was self-perpetuating, so folks would keep buying their games even if the content in them was average at best.

Why they couldn't be bothered to at least throw us a bone by giving us some post-game Kalos DLC back then, I do not know. It's not like people were expecting it to be free; Game Freak could've sold an expansion pass like they've done since Shield/Sword. They clearly love making a profit, so...

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don’t get the hype around Nemona. Has she done anything in particular that sets her apart from the other rivals? I keep reading about how great she is, but I’m yet to see reasons as to why that is. Other than “she is happy for you” or something like that. To be fair to her, most of the other rivals aren’t very deep either.

Well part of it is that she kind of serves as a mentor role in addition to being the rival, and she even starts over with a new team just to be on equal footing with you.

Beyond that, there's a lot of yandere memes because of how obsessed she is with battling you.

 

[Princess Viola]

Would be saying that the yandere memes about Nemona are entirely based upon a shallow reading of her character and annoy me count as a controversial opinion or just a regular one lol?