Obsolete: A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

[Beth Pavell]

It occurs to me that the conspiracy in Dorne that culminates in Aegon's invasion is really the Westerosi conflict of A Dance with Dragons. Really, it should have been set up earlier with Quentyn Martell being introduced with Doran. Some of the Sand Snakes could have been easily cut, since it's only really Arianne and Obara that are essential to the conflict in the court. As it stands the Westerosi thread is flapping (With the Sand Snakes as stupid cartoon villains), and the show has so diverged from the books now that I don't see how it can possibly follow anything George Martin has planned.

Which is all adding strength to the argument that you do what the story requires, not what the audience immediately wants. Ironic, since everyone agrees that an audience wouldn't want to kill off Ned Stark, but the story requires it. Now we have a show with increasingly ridiculous deaths, and characters turned into heroes and villains without the kind of ambiguity that really makes A Song of Ice and Fire great. Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration, but you can see it there. Dany and Jonny can do no wrong, apparently

 

[AceTrainer14]

I agree completely. The biggest error with the Dorne storyline this season is getting rid of Arianne: she is such a different character to any others in the books that I am still dumbfounded they got rid of her. I saw a lot of people argue that splitting one strong female character into three was better, but the Sand Snakes turned into caricatures who did fuck all and got shoved aside so Jamie and Bronn could have more screen time. The show should have basically just dropped Dorne and found another way to kill Myrcella if that was their intention all along.

I will admit that the fact Quentyn dies in the books almost comically after only getting a few POV chapters was a bit of a let down, especially after the set up in the Dorne chapters. However, it still would have made a better storyline than everything here.

There are rumours that the Iron Islands will return next season, but I dread what they would do with that. And its kind of ruined a bit as well, as that whole thing largely culminates in Asha having to go find Theon to get rid of Euron, and then Theon is captured by Stannis. Since Theon is now roaming free, it will be interesting to see what happens there.

 

[Misfit Angel]

I saw a lot of people argue that splitting one strong female character into three was better, but the Sand Snakes turned into caricatures who did fuck all and got shoved aside

Oh god, do not remind me of those three, specifically the short haired one. "You just want the bad pussy!"

*fetal position cringe*

 

[Beth Pavell]

I saw a lot of people argue that splitting one strong female character into three was better, but the Sand Snakes turned into caricatures who did fuck all and got shoved aside

Oh god, do not remind me of those three, specifically the short haired one. "You just want the bad pussy!"

*fetal position cringe*

Good lord ... I only saw them on screen once or twice. And got fed up with their wooden lines and torturing a merchant for no reason. Obviously it got worse.

Oh well. There have been a lot of good scenes. Jaime and Brienne's bath scene, now that was well-acted. Sandor Clegane's brawl at the inn was my favourite piece of fight choreography

 

[Misfit Angel]

I think Jorah's showing at the Great Pit was some pretty impressive choreography, especially when the Bravosi water dancer stole the focus.

However, I must say I am interested in what happens with Bran's storyline in the show; his plot in ADOD is just bloody boring and I was wondering how they'd make it interesting. As long as things aren't radically changed I am interested in what happens next

So I was browsing some of the older posts in this thread and found this one. How'd that turn out? I feel like Bran's storyline might have gotten cut, because there has been absolutely zero mention of him (aside from Theon admitting he didn't kill him), warging in general or any of that.

Having not read the books, I'm kind of curious as to how some kid turning into a druid (that's my basic understanding of it) is going to matter in the long run. I doubt he would have a major role in stopping the white walkers, in shaping how things in the seven kingdoms turn out, or the massively hyped Targaryen invasion.

 

[----]

Quick question: I've only read the books and seen the first season. Has the show gone past DwD yet?

 

[Beth Pavell]

So far as I'm aware - since I stopped watching about three episodes in - the fifth season is a pastiche of A Dance With Dragons and A Feast for Crows

One of the main flaws in the books as I see it, is that Martin has essentially let the story run away from him. I mean, he says seven books but he said three in the first place. There isn't really any clear central story that can be identified - the closest there is to one long running arc could be the Others with Bran's awakening. But if that's so, then there's no way that will be resolved in the space of two books, even if they are the usual giants split into two paperbacks each.

You would have assumed, from the start, that one way or another this was Danaerys' story from rags to riches. I like that Martin hasn't done the obvious thing - that, in short, she's had to learn ruling as she goes along, and that really and truly she's not got the personal resources to take the Iron Throne. Only problem is, with each new plot thread introduced the story becomes less of well, a story, and more like a history written in prose

 

[AceTrainer14]

The season has dived into several elements of The Winds of Winter though - namely,

Spoiler

the Battle in the Snow happens in the finale, and the death of Shireen is alleged to be an upcoming plotpoint in the books. And Meryn Trant does go to Braavos as revealed in an Arya preview chapter

I would agree that there are a lot of elements in the books, and it does seem confusing to see how they will all come together, but I do have faith that he has an idea of where it is all going to end up. I imagine that Dany being captured by the Khalasar will result in her learning to control Drogon fully and aid the invasion further. I do not think Jon is fully dead in the books, or that he will stay permanently dead. I think the end of the series will show how it all fits together, but right now there are just a number of cliffhangers and unresolved plot points that makes it hard to see how everything works. But these things could work together if a lot of theories are correct (ie Sam being at Oldtown with a Faceless Man and possibly a Sand Snake)

 

[----]

I hope Winds of Winter comes out soon. I'm really looking forward to more SoIaF excellence from GRRM