Anders Behring Breivik: Norway court rules him sane

[Tophat Dragoneye]

Article is from BBC: Link

A Norwegian court has ruled that mass killer Anders Behring Breivik is sane, sentencing him to 21 years in prison.

Breivik admitted killing 77 people and wounding more than 240 others when he bombed central Oslo and then opened fire at an island youth camp last year.

He insisted he was sane and refused to plead guilty, seeking to justify his attacks by saying they were necessary to stop the "Islamisation" of Norway.

Prosecutors had called for him to be considered insane.

The five judges were unanimous in ruling that Breivik was sane.

They gave him the maximum sentence of 21 years, but that can be prolonged at a later date if he is deemed to remain a danger to society.

Planned attack

Court-appointed psychiatrists disagreed on Breivik's sanity. A first team which examined him declared him to be a paranoid schizophrenic, but the second found he was sane.

Before the verdict, Breivik said psychiatric care would be "worse than death".

Breivik had said he would not appeal against a sanity verdict. The prosecution, which argued for insanity, could still appeal, says the BBC's Lars Bevanger, at the court in Oslo.

He carried out the meticulously planned attack in July 2011, wearing a fake police uniform, and methodically hunted down his victims.

He accused the Labour Party of promoting multiculturalism and endangering Norway's identity.

Some victims at the Labour Party youth camp on Utoeya island were shot in the head at point-blank range.

Ahead of the verdict, security barriers were put up outside the district court in Oslo.

A glass partition separates Breivik from relatives of victims in a courtroom custom-built for the trial.

Remote-controlled cameras are filming the proceedings, sending the images to courtrooms around Norway where other relatives can watch the hearing live.

Breivik's trial, which began in March, heard graphic testimony from some of the survivors of his attacks.

Mohamad Hadi Hamed, 21, who is now in a wheelchair, told the court how his left arm and his left leg were amputated after he was shot by Breivik.

Another survivor, Einar Bardal, 17, described how he was trying to escape when he heard a loud bang, followed by a loud beeping noise in his head.

 

[Karisse]

He basically admitted to 77 murders and over 240 attempted murders....and the default maximum sentence is only 21 years?

Umm...seriously, WHAT!? I'm sorry, but this guy should have got the firing squad.

 

[Tophat Dragoneye]

He basically admitted to 77 murders and over 240 attempted murders....and the default maximum sentence is only 21 years?

Umm...seriously, WHAT!? I'm sorry, but this guy should have got the firing squad.

Let me explain. Breivik got something called in danish (there's no apparent english word for it I know of, unfortunately (do correct me if I'm wrong)) "forvaringsdom". Basically, it means that his sentence can be lengthened indenfinently if he's still considered a threat.

 

[99unownoak]

I agree with the courts decision.

It's their laws and they have the safety net to extend the sentence if necessary.

 

[Therian]

I agree with the decision that he is sane. As for the sentence welcome to Liberal justice my friends. A quick google search of "Andrers Breivik luxury Prison" will tell you all you need to know. He's got access to a lot more than I could ever afford. Basketball courts, pools, free education to any level, as well as an island where they can visit every so often where all the residents are in custodial sentences.

Also they are going to pay prostitutes for conjugal visits, because he has conjugal rights. If I'm ever hard up, I'm going to commit a crime in Norway. I don't know any other country that treats prisoners so well. Not to mention the full sentence is 21 years, but the judge only set the minimum at 10 years!

I understand the desire for rehabilitation, but prison also needs to act as a deterrent, the Norwegian system sadly does not do that.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I think he's sane. He just has a very bad sense of morality.

 

[Fig]

I agree with the decision that he is sane. As for the sentence welcome to Liberal justice my friends. A quick google search of "Andrers Breivik luxury Prison" will tell you all you need to know. He's got access to a lot more than I could ever afford. Basketball courts, pools, free education to any level, as well as an island where they can visit every so often where all the residents are in custodial sentences.

Also they are going to pay prostitutes for conjugal visits, because he has conjugal rights. If I'm ever hard up, I'm going to commit a crime in Norway. I don't know any other country that treats prisoners so well. Not to mention the full sentence is 21 years, but the judge only set the minimum at 10 years!

I understand the desire for rehabilitation, but prison also needs to act as a deterrent, the Norwegian system sadly does not do that.

Which is why, of course, they're in the top-10 country for lowest murder rates (that is, murders per 100 000 inhabitants) in the world *nods wisely*

 

[zakisrage]

Breivik can go to hell. How dare he attack innocent people and then claim "some Muslim did it".

BTW, I take serious offence to that English guy's signature AND I'M AUSTRALIAN. What, do you hate Americans and Australians? Not everyone is of English heritage.

 

[Fig]

Split the linguistic stuff over to a new thread :

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/f572/where-english-people-disagree-over-whose-language-best-138378/

 

[Bulletproof Scales]

I don't see how people are immediately concerned for the vengeance the victims families "undoubtedly" must wish upon this man. Excuse us for having decent prison standards where people doesn't shake bars while getting raped, or a justice system that may not suit your definition of the word? This does not however magically lead to lower murder rates, they're both products of high living standards.
And it's funny how wrong a story can get on the other side of the planet...

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I tend to wonder what his excuse will be and how many years will be kept in prison if the war on terrorism was over, because the ruling of him being sane may have offend Muslims in general.

 

[Gama]

I agree with the decision that he is sane. As for the sentence welcome to Liberal justice my friends. A quick google search of "Andrers Breivik luxury Prison" will tell you all you need to know. He's got access to a lot more than I could ever afford. Basketball courts, pools, free education to any level, as well as an island where they can visit every so often where all the residents are in custodial sentences.

Also they are going to pay prostitutes for conjugal visits, because he has conjugal rights. If I'm ever hard up, I'm going to commit a crime in Norway. I don't know any other country that treats prisoners so well. Not to mention the full sentence is 21 years, but the judge only set the minimum at 10 years!

I understand the desire for rehabilitation, but prison also needs to act as a deterrent, the Norwegian system sadly does not do that.

Right, so I've done some minor research into this 'luxury prison', and I really think the claims you're making in this post simply aren't true. If possible, could you please provide direct links (or references) to places where this information is reliably laid out in black and white?

"Basketball courts, pools, free education to any level, as well as an island where they can visit every so often where all the residents are in custodial sentences." I have found no evidence to support this. Yes, he has a rather large room where he is being kept, and yes this includes an exercise centre. The reason for this is not because all prisoners are kept like this in Norway, but because he is being kept on his own with no contact with anyone else until he is no longer considered a high security threat. This means that the areas that in normal prisons would be communal, such as the kitchens and the exercise area, are for his personal use only. Given that he is considered a high security threat and cannot be allowed to mix normally with other prisoners, I don't really know how else you would have it. He certainly isn't given access to an island that he can visit every now and again, or education to whatever level he pleases, though the Norweigan prison system does generally give its prisoners access to a school (which in my opinion is a good thing - many prisoners are citizens who the state has failed at an early age and are left with little choice but to turn to crime - they should be punished, yes, but they should also be supported and helped to rehabilitate).

Also, the full sentence is not 21 years, he can be kept longer than that. That said, as I understand it, if it is decided that he should be kept beyond 21 years it will no longer be considered a punishment, but will be for the protection of the people, so he will be transferred somewhere that is meant to be a bit nicer - somewhere that he can live a normal standard of life rather than a prisoner's standard of life.

The question then comes down to whether 21 years is a sufficient sentence. Now, what a lot of people forget when it comes to something like this is that 21 years is a really, really long time. It's easy to say "Oh, it's only 21 years", but can you actually imagine being kept in a confined space and being prevented from being part of society and advancing yourself socially for what is probably longer than you have been alive so far? Can you actually imagine that? Does that really seem like a light punishment to you? It doesn't to me.

When people talk about prison sentences they often forget that a large number of criminals are actually reoffenders. Long and harsh prison sentences don't do much good for rehabilitating people. It just makes people more likely to relate more with the criminal world than with the state when they finally emerge. Countries where prison sentences are much harsher and prison stints in general are much harsher generally have much, much higher reoffending rates.

 

[Shinobu]

I tend to wonder what his excuse will be and how many years will be kept in prison if the war on terrorism was over, because the ruling of him being sane may have offend Muslims in general.

I would disagree. If he was considered mentally incompetent it would act as an excuse. Now no excuse can be made for his behavior.

In regards to his sentence, I would intuitively think he could be held indefinitely. His only regret is not killing more people. Now I'm waiting for him to say that if he's let out he'd kill more people.

 

[H-con]

To anyone who's thinking that he'll go to the island prison (embarrassing for me not to remember it's name, but whatever), yeah, no, that's not going to happen. Breivik would be a too high risk prisoner for that anyways. As a Norwegian, I'd rather have less criminals by having more comfortable prisons than living in the thought that they serve miserably for their crimes, which basically gains me nothing at all except this twisted sense of justice.

I'm rather happy about the punishment, and that he was found sane. There was a lot of discussion about it, and I'm certainly no expert, but I would find it odd if he wasn't found sane to be honest. I wouldn't exactly mind if he got locked up for the rest of his life, though I wonder what will happen if he ever gets released. Not some lynch mob obviously, but I would assume he would have to take on a completely new identity.

Also they are going to pay prostitutes for conjugal visits, because he has conjugal rights. If I'm ever hard up, I'm going to commit a crime in Norway. I don't know any other country that treats prisoners so well. Not to mention the full sentence is 21 years, but the judge only set the minimum at 10 years!

I don't know where you get your sources from, but wherever you get your information from, you should seriously reconsider getting some new. If I recall correctly, buying sex (though not selling, strangely enough) is illegal over here anyways (in any case, it's one of the two), and I'm preeeetty sure the prison isn't going to violate national law and buy prostitutes.

 

[Therian]

To anyone who's thinking that he'll go to the island prison (embarrassing for me not to remember it's name, but whatever), yeah, no, that's not going to happen. Breivik would be a too high risk prisoner for that anyways. As a Norwegian, I'd rather have less criminals by having more comfortable prisons than living in the thought that they serve miserably for their crimes, which basically gains me nothing at all except this twisted sense of justice.

I'm rather happy about the punishment, and that he was found sane. There was a lot of discussion about it, and I'm certainly no expert, but I would find it odd if he wasn't found sane to be honest. I wouldn't exactly mind if he got locked up for the rest of his life, though I wonder what will happen if he ever gets released. Not some lynch mob obviously, but I would assume he would have to take on a completely new identity.

Also they are going to pay prostitutes for conjugal visits, because he has conjugal rights. If I'm ever hard up, I'm going to commit a crime in Norway. I don't know any other country that treats prisoners so well. Not to mention the full sentence is 21 years, but the judge only set the minimum at 10 years!

I don't know where you get your sources from, but wherever you get your information from, you should seriously reconsider getting some new. If I recall correctly, buying sex (though not selling, strangely enough) is illegal over here anyways (in any case, it's one of the two), and I'm preeeetty sure the prison isn't going to violate national law and buy prostitutes.

Simply Google "Anders Breivik Conjugal visits" for a whole range of articles, many referencing the fact that you pointed out it's illegal and yet they are still doing it because his rights overide the law on that regard.

Norway is a real mystery to me. Looking at the Prison where he's staying I honestly wouldn't mind living there, it's nicer than my house at the moment. With living conditions like that I'm surprised more Norwegians don't turn to crime.

Also I can't see the sentence lasting 21 years let alone extended beyond that, the minimum was only set at 10, and Norway is very lenient.

 

[H-con]

Simply Google "Anders Breivik Conjugal visits" for a whole range of articles, many referencing the fact that you pointed out it's illegal and yet they are still doing it because his rights overide the law on that regard.

Where the fuck does it say that anyways? I googled that exact phrase, and searched after "conjugal" and even "prostitute" on the top articles, and I've come to the conclusion that you're making things up here. Again, check your sources, and post a direct link to where it says that he'll get that, because I'm Norwegian, and I haven't heard one word of him or any other getting that, ever.


Besides, they are not going to put what is probably the single most high risk prisoner in Norway on Bastøy any time soon. Not even the new Halden prison, which is probably also cited for being so nice.

Norway is a real mystery to me. Looking at the Prison where he's staying I honestly wouldn't mind living there, it's nicer than my house at the moment. With living conditions like that I'm surprised more Norwegians don't turn to crime.

No Norwegian I know (and that's a fucking lot) would ever want that, trust me. People don't want to go to jail, strangely enough...

 

[ivantuga2]

This maniac's place is lifetime prison. Period. Ending tens of peoples' lives should be more than enough reason for that. I don't know how the actual Norwegian laws work though in this respect. But this guy is a monster. Imagine you would be friends of those that he killed. And think about those that were friends of his victims.

There's simply no excuse.

 

[mwetwe]

I respect his sentance for the reason that is is the maximum Norway can give. Although maybe they should change it they still gave him the MAXIMUM. For the scepticles, if he is still found a danger to the public after the 21 years, he can be kept detained so its not that bad.

I am glad he got found sane, but looking more into it, even if he was found insane justice would be given because the mental unit he was going to is basically a jail in which is secure and he is kept an eye on more. It would also be more of a life sentance.

 

[Therian]

Indeed, I'm glad he was found sane. As you say if he was insane then he would be locked away for ever and I think that would be a bit harsh. NOT!

The maximum is 21 (although it can be extended so not really a maximum) and the minimum is 10. I think he will probably be nearer the lower end of the scale than the higher end.

 

[H-con]

Imagine you would be friends of those that he killed. And think about those that were friends of his victims.

While I didn't personally know anyone that was there (I had talked a few words perhaps to one girl that survived, but that's about it), I have a friend that was supposed to have been there. What can I say, we're a small country.

I think he will probably be nearer the lower end of the scale than the higher end.

This is a man, who's ideology and general tendency to violence is very unlikely to diminish in 10 years. If anything, the trial and the way he behaved in it makes that reasonably clear. This is a man that will probably, for as long as he lives, be judged as a national security threat, and the legal system will act accordingly. This is a man who coldly and in pretty clear detail described how he was going to execute several known persons (by decapitations for instance).

This is a man who will spend a long time in prison. I, and quite a few others, would be highly surprised if he spent less than 20 years in prison.