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Really had to stretch for #9, huh?
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As for the battle frontier part I think it might have to do with they haven't posted battle frontier season on the Pokemon tv app yet. That or they wanted his Hoenn Pokemon team iconic battle to he included as Brandon was his Kanto team, and the other frontier brains was either a mix of all his Pokemon or just KantoYou know, I do wonder how some of the themed episode lists they do for the official site are made; they're doing one for "Ash's most iconic battles" but it's laser focused on the leagues and league adjacent battles, but I honestly think "Electric Shock Showdown" is way more iconic than, say, his loss to Tyson (in fact they included every single league loss but skipped the Battle Frontier entirely).
Yeah I mostly agree AG just was in an unfortunate position because of a lot of outside circumstances as you mentionedAG is a weird spot where it's both simultaneously too old now for the younger fanbase to be familiar with and it also came after the original fad era ended around mid-Johto so it never had mainstream status like the OS did. That and as mentioned, it doesn't necessarily have anything too bad that people complain about much (besides the Magma/Aqua finale, or people who didn't like Max), to keep it in constant conversations like the people who rag on BW's flaws or whatever. At this point it's really only remembered for those of us older fans who grew up with it when it was new. I think within the next 10 years DP will wind up being the same as it gets older and older.
A compilation video of the top 10 most emotional goodbyes
I'm not too sure; DP wasn't nearly as well liked while it was airing and I won't be surprised if just like AG it's supporters continue to just "age out" and get outnumbered by people who came in later and don't really have special fond memories of it.I don't think DP will be forgotten at least not the same way AG has, DP even now can be argued as the best series and factors like Dawn Paul & Cynthia have left more of a mark on the series than even characters like Gary let alone any AG characters not named May
Best Wishes wasn't liked at all when it was airing, but now people seem to have strangely fond memories of it.I'm not too sure; DP wasn't nearly as well liked while it was airing and I won't be surprised if just like AG it's supporters continue to just "out" and get outnumbered by people who came in later and don't really have special fond memories of it.
But in the very long term I sort of think everything from AG to XY is in an unfortunate situation where Ash's resets and frozen progression makes them feel like two decades of filler.
I think it's because people who were young kids back when it first started airing (and thus for them BW would've been the first experience with the Pokemon anime) are now old enough to interact with the rest of the fanbase on a large scale, and for them BW has at the very least nostalgic value. Gen 5 did come out roughly 12 years ago, after all, meaning that viewers who would've been around 5-7 years old back in the day would be in their late teens or young adulthood now. It also helps that none of these viewers would have any preconcieved notions about Ash's past adventures, so all of the stuff that bothered long-time viewers (namely Ash's regression in skill) obviously wouldn't have been issues for them.Best Wishes wasn't liked at all when it was airing, but now people seem to have strangely fond memories of it.
They were all good goodbyes. The weakest goodbyes were the BW trio and the Hoenn groups farewell.Dustox, Chimecho, and Cacnea's releases deserve spots. What are Serena, Greninja, and Floette even doing on here?
I think it depends what you're comparing it to, As I think all series after OS go down in viewership from aging out to just general popularity not as big as that initial boom. And I think every series has this weird “I don't like A B & C” early on and as the series goes they start liking A & B and maybe C really wasn't good but enough time has passedI'm not too sure; DP wasn't nearly as well liked while it was airing and I won't be surprised if just like AG it's supporters continue to just "age out" and get outnumbered by people who came in later and don't really have special fond memories of it.
But in the very long term I sort of think everything from AG to XY is in an unfortunate situation where Ash's resets and frozen progression makes them feel like two decades of filler.
Edit: I mean it's honestly funny how interchangeable the outline of those series' are. All of them were Gym Cycle--Ash helps stop an evil team--Ash beats a rival--Ash loses the league and starts back from square one. AG is a bit different thanks to the BF and the order of events moves around a bit like Team Flare being after the league.
Honestly, I think at least some of it is less people changing their mind and more that fewer of the old guard stick around every year.I think it depends what you're comparing it to, As I think all series after OS go down in viewership from aging out to just general popularity not as big as that initial boom. And I think every series has this weird “I don't like A B & C” early on and as the series goes they start liking A & B and maybe C really wasn't good but enough time has passed
Like with sun and moon the art style was a major complaint earlier on then as time went on people either just accepted it or really like it
The main ones I remember (not just complaints about specific episodes but recurring ones) were Ash losing too often after his good performance in AG (and no BF/OI arc to give him some sort of victory--at the time Johto had been the only region not to give him a post-league victory so a number of people assumed the Platinum BF would be included for that), Team Rocket continuing to take screentime from battles or other important events, Paul and Dawn were both accused at times of receiving writer's favouritism, Brock feeling superfluous, Piplup being an even bigger attention hog than Pikachu, and complaints about the long stretches between Gyms with the filler episodes being very unpopular at the time.I forget what the DP dislikes were about, I just remember some didn't like Paul as much and they had that bad stretch between gym battles where it felt like a lot of filler,
Yeah I think each series even the ones that are really similar do something that shifts it from the previous seriesHonestly, I think at least some of it is less people changing their mind and more that fewer of the old guard stick around every year.
I'll be open about my biases; I disliked DP pretty much from the start and my opinion of it only went down over time, but I recall it wasn't just me who missed AG during it's run. I think when BW was announced there was some amount of "Oh, I hope it's better than this one was" comments.
Yeah I definitely remember some of those DP complaints now that you mention them lolThe main ones I remember (not just complaints about specific episodes but recurring ones) were Ash losing too often after his good performance in AG (and no BF/OI arc to give him some sort of victory--at the time Johto had been the only region not to give him a post-league victory so a number of people assumed the Platinum BF would be included for that), Team Rocket continuing to take screentime from battles or other important events, Paul and Dawn were both accused at times of receiving writer's favouritism, Brock feeling superfluous, Piplup being an even bigger attention hog than Pikachu, and complaints about the long stretches between Gyms with the filler episodes being very unpopular at the time.
Uggh, why'd Goodra and Tyrantrum have to go? Seriously. Goodra's release felt pretty forced (especially the second time,) and Bonnie had a much stronger bond with that Tyrantrum than any of those scientist dudes. Kalos Dragon types got done dirty.The Goodra and Tyrantrum releases in XY were really sad as well.
Tyrantrum actually belonged to those scientists. While Bonnie had a stronger bond with it, they would most likely have been able to care better care of it within that protective environment. It was still a sad to see Bonnie leave it there after they had bonded quite, but I don't think that she would have been able to take care of it like the scientists could. Not to mention I don't think that the writers would have wanted such a giant Pokemon within the main cast.Uggh, why'd Goodra and Tyrantrum have to go? Seriously. Goodra's release felt pretty forced (especially the second time,) and Bonnie had a much stronger bond with that Tyrantrum than any of those scientist dudes. Kalos Dragon types got done dirty.
Funny you should mention Piplup, because I've recently been rewatching DP (including the movies,) and......yeah. I'm definitely in that camp of people you mentioned before. I found Piplup to very annoying, in fact, and I still find it annoying to this day. (I also find his trainer to be annoying too, so there's that.) And, controversial opinion (and I actually already stated this in the Contoversial Opinons thread,) incoming here, and I'm probably in the minority when I say this, but I don't find Piplup to be cute. At all. Nope, Torchic's the cute one to me.People complained about Piplup a lot back in the day. I can see why when Piplup could often be annoying, it still got a lot of screentime and the transition from Piplup being treated like a regular Pokemon to being the always out of its Pokeball secondary mascot in early DP is still rather jarring, even in my rewatches. That being said, I think Piplup works a lot better now than it did when I first watched DP. It can still be annoying, but Dawn and Piplup's relationship is genuinely sweet and they have some great moments throughout the series. All of Dawn's Pokemon get a decent amount of attention. Some more than others and one could argue that Piplup taking a lot of center stage prevented some of her other Pokemon from getting more attention, but all of her Pokemon helped Dawn with her Contests. She didn't just rely on the power of her marketable starter all the time.