Anime & Manga General Discussion

[Hidden Mew]

It’s put that to bed for this series but you just know that we’ll be hearing that same argument at the end of every series despite it always getting disproven.

A part of me hopes that Ash not being replaced even after winning the PWC and becoming a World Champion means that people will stop the usual "Will this be Ash's last series?" for good. If defeating the number one ranked trainer didn't replace Ash, then I'm pretty sure he's here for good, but knowing this fanbase, it will probably come up at some point during the next series regardless.

Hey… they could have Ash age and have his kid take over with Ash still in the anime

That isn't going to happen. They aren't going to have Ash and Serena end up together, get married, have a kid and have their kid become the new focus of the anime with Ash in a mentor role.

Anyway, I'm hoping that this is going to be a series set in Paldea. That would fit with the merchandise we've seen and it would be nice for the anime to give proper focus to the current generation again. I haven't even explored half of Paldea thoroughly in the games yet and I really want to see a lot of these locations in the anime. I definitely don't want Paldea to get the same poor treatment as Galar did. Plus, I think having a more consistent location would help to give the anime more focus and being able to see new Pokemon, characters and locations more consistently would be nice. The emphasis on exploration and finding your own treasure really does feel like a good match for Ash's personality.

A continuation of Journeys wouldn't be impossible, but that does feel unlikely at the moment. They've been wrapping up their main storylines for awhile without really setting up anything new. I don't think that they'll suddenly give Chloe something else to do after meeting all of the Eevee evolutions, they aren't going to have Ash just defend his PWC title forever and after Project Mew is dealt with, I don't know what else they could do with Goh. It just feels like it would make more sense to have Ash travel around with a new cast and deal with a new status quo at this point. I am a bit curious if the production issues are going to lead to some changes for the new series. I still can't really see them going the seasonal route, if only because having episodes throughout the year makes it easier for them to tie in with new games, but maybe that will happen.

 

[BigDocFan]

 

[Shadao]

A part of me hopes that Ash not being replaced even after winning the PWC and becoming a World Champion means that people will stop the usual "Will this be Ash's last series?" for good. If defeating the number one ranked trainer didn't replace Ash, then I'm pretty sure he's here for good, but knowing this fanbase, it will probably come up at some point during the next series regardless.

I hope to see the end of the established formula of fighting Gyms and defeating the Champion. At least with Ash.

The benefit of Ash beating Leon is that they'll have to give Ash new things to do. Like, what is going to top Pikachu's second wind of nostalgia and beating Charizard? Greeta doesn't seem to have the same reputation as Leon, both by the fandom and by the games.

I remember what I once said back in the day of the Ash vs Leon speculations. I said that Ash should defeat Leon because it puts him in a position he has never been in. At the very top of the world. And we know that Leon has some reservations of being the best. No challenges, no satisfaction.

And when you get down to it, Ash's failing to win the League tournaments until recently was detrimental to the audience not because Ash lost, but rather that repeated efforts start to feel the same old same old. It's fun for Ash, but not fun for the audience wanting something new. It has gotten to the point that Ash's goal of winning the Pokémon League became the only thing about Ash's entire character.

Defeating Leon was always going to lead to two possibilities that are favorable to me:

1) Ash leaves the anime on a high note or 2) they'll have to do something new with Ash's journey. Something more original.

If Ash was going on a treasure hunt arc, for example, fans would stick around to watch it because hey, I never saw Ash do that in a long time.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

You know, I just wanna see Ash being the mentor again to a new trainer. You don't even have to age him up to do it. They did this in AG with Ash teaching May the basics. Now with Ash being the World Champion, he's more far experienced than he was in AG and perfect for the role of a mentor.

 

[Jaye]

The thing is, nothing is going to top Leon for a long time. Leon was built up to be the singular most strongest trainer in the world, far stronger than any of his fellow Champions, only losing to Ash because Ash was able to Dynamax (twice!), Mega Evolve and use Z-Moves in the same battle. So unless the anime pulls a trainer out who was secretly stronger and just never participated in the PWC for reasons, both the writers and the audience have to accept that whatever comes next isn't going to present the same level of challenge for Ash. Constant escalation just isn't feasible here.

It'd be a very brave, albeit intriguing, move to have Ash do something which isn't competitive. Competition has been his bread and butter forever and it's what we most identify with his character. The problem is, we're at a point where Ash losing to anyone who isn't considered a top trainer isn't believable anymore, even if they gave him brand new Pokemon to work with, but at the same time, he has to lose for there to be any sort of tension.

I can see Ash taking on the role of Nemona in the games:

Spoiler

Being a champion trainer, but deliberately choosing weaker mons for the sake of building up a rival.

.

I also think it'd be cool if the anime had a new trainer whose goal is to beat Ash, so we could have a rivalry build up to a big battle at the end of the series. The scale would be smaller, but most personal.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

I hope to see the end of the established formula of fighting Gyms and defeating the Champion. At least with Ash.

The benefit of Ash beating Leon is that they'll have to give Ash new things to do. Like, what is going to top Pikachu's second wind of nostalgia and beating Charizard? Greeta doesn't seem to have the same reputation as Leon, both by the fandom and by the games.

I remember what I once said back in the day of the Ash vs Leon speculations. I said that Ash should defeat Leon because it puts him in a position he has never been in. At the very top of the world. And we know that Leon has some reservations of being the best. No challenges, no satisfaction.

And when you get down to it, Ash's failing to win the League tournaments until recently was detrimental to the audience not because Ash lost, but rather that repeated efforts start to feel the same old same old. It's fun for Ash, but not fun for the audience wanting something new. It has gotten to the point that Ash's goal of winning the Pokémon League became the only thing about Ash's entire character.

Defeating Leon was always going to lead to two possibilities that are favorable to me:

1) Ash leaves the anime on a high note or 2) they'll have to do something new with Ash's journey. Something more original.

If Ash was going on a treasure hunt arc, for example, fans would stick around to watch it because hey, I never saw Ash do that in a long time.

I respect your opinion, but next year is going to mark 10 years since Ash started a gym quest. That’s an entire generation of kids who have never seen him take on a gym. Now can the gym challenge be passed on to other characters while Ash does something else? Yes, of course. And I wouldn’t be against seeing it. But again, the idea that gyms are this repetitive motion that the anime relies on too often is untrue as it’s been almost a decade since he started a new one.

Also to note: the treasure hunting element of Scarlet and Violet is metaphorical, not literal. Unless you do the path of legends I guess.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I…don’t want to see Ash as a parent tbh

Even aging him up is a bit questionable

Given Ash’s personality and how they paralleled him with Leon basically being the adult Ash, I can only imagine that Ash as a parent would be on the level of disappeared dad as Goku.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Given Ash’s personality and how they paralleled him with Leon basically being the adult Ash, I can only imagine that Ash as a parent would be on the level of disappeared dad as Goku.

I think it would be the opposite. Ash would be an amazing father, and so would Leon

 

[Kurolegacy]

The thing is, nothing is going to top Leon for a long time. Leon was built up to be the singular most strongest trainer in the world, far stronger than any of his fellow Champions, only losing to Ash because Ash was able to Dynamax (twice!), Mega Evolve and use Z-Moves in the same battle. So unless the anime pulls a trainer out who was secretly stronger and just never participated in the PWC for reasons, both the writers and the audience have to accept that whatever comes next isn't going to present the same level of challenge for Ash. Constant escalation just isn't feasible here.

It'd be a very brave, albeit intriguing, move to have Ash do something which isn't competitive. Competition has been his bread and butter forever and it's what we most identify with his character. The problem is, we're at a point where Ash losing to anyone who isn't considered a top trainer isn't believable anymore, even if they gave him brand new Pokemon to work with, but at the same time, he has to lose for there to be any sort of tension.

I can see Ash taking on the role of Nemona in the games:

Spoiler

Being a champion trainer, but deliberately choosing weaker mons for the sake of building up a rival.

.

I also think it'd be cool if the anime had a new trainer whose goal is to beat Ash, so we could have a rivalry build up to a big battle at the end of the series. The scale would be smaller, but most personal.

Constant escalation is basically how you become Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Super should stand as what not to do with your series. Really when you think about it, between Battle Frontier and the PWC, we really only seem to see them pull out the stops of going super big for the big milestones with Battle Frontier being the 10th anniversary and OWC being the 25th. I don’t really see them doing something big like this at least until they hit another big milestone.

 

[Shadao]

I respect your opinion, but next year is going to mark 10 years since Ash started a gym quest. That’s an entire generation of kids who have never seen him take on a gym. Now can the gym challenge be passed on to other characters while Ash does something else? Yes, of course. And I wouldn’t be against seeing it. But again, the idea that gyms are this repetitive motion that the anime relies on too often is untrue as it’s been almost a decade since he started a new one.

Also to note: the treasure hunting element of Scarlet and Violet is metaphorical, not literal. Unless you do the path of legends I guess.

And all for the better. Prior to SM, the Gyms have run its course with Ash that it has been a big contributor to the whole retire Ash train. Even SM had a tendency to follow the Gym formula with the whole Island Trials replacement, though that at least was more creative.

Journeys shows that is possible for Ash to do things after becoming Champion of Alola and boy, what wonders that was. Ash meeting with various game characters across various regions, getting Pokémon that don't fit with the Galar advertisement mandate, and him fighting fan favorites like Cynthia. Like, he can do anything he wants now.

That feeling of freedom is why the Nemona role feels like a natural progression to his character. Heck, he could be Nemona's mentor considering her personality.

 

[Kurolegacy]

And all for the better. Prior to SM, the Gyms have run its course with Ash that it has been a big contributor to the whole retire Ash train. Even SM had a tendency to follow the Gym formula with the whole Island Trials replacement, though that at least was more creative.

Journeys shows that is possible for Ash to do things after becoming Champion of Alola and boy, what that was. Ash meeting with various game characters across various regions, getting Pokémon that don't fit with the Galar advertisement mandate, and him fighting fan favorites like Cynthia. Like, he can do anything he wants now.

That feeling of freedom is why the Nemona role feels like a natural progression to his character. Heck, he could be Nemona's mentor considering her personality.

The Namona role basically presents that even as a champion level character, that doesn’t mean that you’re beyond taking on the gyms. Hell, she did the very thing that Ash has been doing since Advanced with starting fresh to train up a new team. And really making someone Nemona’s mentor when she’s already a champion herself would be a regressive for her given that she’s anything but green.

 

[Shadao]

The Namona role basically presents that even as a champion level character, that doesn’t mean that you’re beyond taking on the gyms. Hell, she did the very thing that Ash has been doing since Advanced with starting fresh to train up a new team. And really making someone Nemona’s mentor when she’s already a champion herself would be a regressive for her given that she’s anything but green.

The Nemona mentorship is more of a joke of how people say that she pretty much acts like Ash.

But her role also opens the idea of Ash finding someone to mentor as his rival. An actual rival. Not someone doing contests on the sidelines. Someone to one day challenge Ash one day and maybe surpass him. And it's honestly more interesting than Ash just doing the Gyms by himself to become a Pokémon Champion... again.

 

[Jaye]

I have a theory the next anime was delayed because they couldn't work out a way of having Ash and Nemona in the same scene without the word "battle" being repeated a thousand times.

In all seriousness, I hope that, whatever they do, they do something with Ash's new status as number one trainer. We've always seen him as the challenger chasing a new achievement, but I'd like to see that dynamic flipped on its head.

That Alola episode right before the Masters Tournament leant into that a bit, with Gladion, Kiawe and Kukui all wanting a shot at him. Just give me more of that with new characters.

 

[darksteel6]

Dogasu isn't entirely convinced that we're getting a gen-9 anime despite the announcement and I can't say I am either:

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I hope its a Gen 9 series more than anything, even if it becomes a seasonal anime or something. I just don't want Journeys to continue and Goh to stay a main character. Some people don't deserve the satisfaction of it happening.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

Dogasu isn't entirely convinced that we're getting a gen-9 anime despite the announcement and I can't say I am either:

I can genuinely see the show's format changing, but I'm still holding out for a Gen IX anime

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

And all for the better. Prior to SM, the Gyms have run its course with Ash that it has been a big contributor to the whole retire Ash train. Even SM had a tendency to follow the Gym formula with the whole Island Trials replacement, though that at least was more creative.

Journeys shows that is possible for Ash to do things after becoming Champion of Alola and boy, what wonders that was. Ash meeting with various game characters across various regions, getting Pokémon that don't fit with the Galar advertisement mandate, and him fighting fan favorites like Cynthia. Like, he can do anything he wants now.

That feeling of freedom is why the Nemona role feels like a natural progression to his character. Heck, he could be Nemona's mentor considering her personality.

I don't know how successful Journeys was at proving anything from a story-telling perspective (as a good two-thirds of the series was severely flawed imo) other than the anime having the abilitiy to branch away from the usual dependence of a current generation's material, but I'm not disagreeing with your point. I'm all for Ash taking on mentor roles or expanding his character arc. My stance is that Ash returning to challenging gyms isn't as regressive as you (and others) are trying to make it out to be. We have champions taking on the gyms in the game with the exact same mentality Ash has (a brand new team, little reliance on past reserves, wanting to challenge everyone they meet to battles). The game justifies such a position.

And as a side note, I am curious how far you've played into Scarlet/Violet (if any at all) as Ash mentoring Nemona wouldn't make any sense from a lore-perspective. She isn't a rookie trainer by any means and would not need someone, let alone someone who in-game would be considered her peer, to show her the ropes so to speak. Unless, of course, the show retcons her character.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I could possibly see them going for a seasonal anime instead if that helps with the production problems, but even that I'm not sure of due to how keeping the anime year rounds helps with promoting new games and keeping the franchise more within the public consciousness. A web series sounds pretty unlikely. I can't picture Ash's adventures working in web short format. Continuing Ash's adventures through movies also seems pretty unlikely to me. They haven't made any movie announcements for years, so I'm not sure if they'd suddenly just announce a new movie to continue Ash's adventures. If they've been struggling with getting the Master Class battles out with breaks and clip shows, I don't think that they would have had the resources to be working on a movie at the same time.

While a SV anime isn't confirmed, it does feel like the most plausible option to me, at least at the moment. I don't see them continuing the Journeys format, so at least having the next series set in Paldea makes the most sense to me. I still would like to see Ash doing Gyms again, but even just being able to see new characters, Pokemon and locations would be an improvement. Plus, they do have merchandise of some new Pokemon with the anime art style, which I don't think that they'd do if it wasn't for a new main series. They haven't had merchandise for the web series and outside of manga adaptations, I don't think that there has been much movie exclusive merchandise either.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I think a seasonal anime at this point would be the best option going forward for them. With the amount of staff they lost, its clear that they've been struggling. The decision to animate all the Masters 8 battles probably also took a toll on them. We can see the effects though. I mean we've had so many weeks off and multiple clips shows over the last few months. They'd probably benefit from doing a seasonal anime at this point.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Dogasu isn't entirely convinced that we're getting a gen-9 anime despite the announcement and I can't say I am either:

While I understand that Dogasu is a neutral arbiter of the information, knowing human nature, a post like that will only serve to give the wiggle room to embolden those who have been trying to push their narrative of Ash leaving or having his role decreased essentially putting us right back to square one of where we were at prior to the TVTokio tweet. Really hoping whatever information they give us tomorrow is something concrete because otherwise these next few weeks are going to be insufferable.