Anyone else notice that Contests have gotten more screentime than Gyms this season?

[Cybersai]

Roark's Gym = 3 episodes (not counting filler Aerodactyl ep inbetween)
Gardenia's Gym = 1 episode (seeing the character in other eps doesn't count as a Gym ep)

meanwhile...

Jubilife Contest = 2 episodes
Jessie/Aipom Contest = 1 episode
Piplup/Prinplup Contest = 2 episodes
Heartrome Contest = 1 episode

Actual Gym battle screentime = 4 episodes total
Actual Contest episode screentime = 6 episodes total

We had lots of Contests in Hoenn and Battle Frontier (May had 16 in total in addition to the two Grand Festivals), but in Sinnoh we're going through them at an alarming rate. The Contest arc in general seems to have taken up such a big chunk of the anime. Not only have we had two main girls do Pokemon Contests, (as well as Jessie, so its technically three), but the only rivals in AG were Contest rivals, and in D/P Dawn could technically have three if Kenny returns.

Why do you think Contests are getting this overwhelming amount of screentime in the anime?

 

[Dr. Peppa]

Because they rock...

But really I think this may be a sign that the series is going in a new direction... or that we will get very few contests later on to even it out. It could also be because Dawn is a very popular character and people love her. (I certainly don't)

 

[Nando]

Jessie/Aipom wasn't really a full Contest, so if you count it, I'd say you have to include the Cosplay Contest too.

I just find the Contest plotline much more interesting now that it's been rebooted with Dawn and her new rivals. Sure, Kenny was a flop, but I'll take an eternally PMSing lesbian (as much as I dislike her) and a bard who wears makeup over a Gary ripoff, a frighteningly horrid bishie wannabe, and a girl who actually likes Harley any day.

Seriously, Harley was the only interesting rival May ever had, and that was mostly because of his flaming gayness.

 

[Habunake]

The ironic thing is Kenny was a way better character then Zoey...and Nando, if not for his Kricketune. If only they were like Kenny, not the other way around.

And really, most of DP's Co-ordinator lineup has been very shoddy. I'm very confused for all the praise I think DP deserves, why people would praise characters like Zoey (who I actually wish was as horrible as you made her out to be so I could be interested in her) and Nando, whose only redeeming quality is having a Kricketune over people like Grace and The Phantom who were way more interesting. And Salaryman. That guy was of epic proportions.

I'm hoping the next Contest has some neat one-shot rival personally, with some kickass-goofy Pokemon like AG's regularly did.

 

[Cybersai]

Jessie/Aipom wasn't really a full Contest, so if you count it, I'd say you have to include the Cosplay Contest too.

A practice Contest is still a Contest, it doesn't matter if the winner didn't get a ribbon.

The cosplay ep had nothing to do with coordinating.

Sure, Kenny was a flop, but I'll take an eternally PMSing lesbian (as much as I dislike her) and a bard who wears makeup over a Gary ripoff, a frighteningly horrid bishie wannabe, and a girl who actually likes Harley any day.

...ok? I don't see what this has to do with anything I'm pointing out.

Mostly everyone else it seemed enjoyed the writers writing good dialouge and characters above the level we thought the writers were capable of, which is why those characters became such a hit with the audience in the first place, but I suppose the writers can't win them all. The writers won over the majority, and that's really all they should set out to do. Its your loss, not ours.

 

[Nando]

The ironic thing is Kenny was a way better character then Zoey...and Nando, if not for his Kricketune. If only they were like Kenny, not the other way around.

What was so great about Kenny? He had no personality outside of teasing Dawn.

 

[Habunake]

That's already more then Nando or Zoey, and I for one think he was a very nice and down-to-earth character.

 

[Cybersai]

Kenny has too much similarity to all the previous male rivals for me to really care about him. If this is meant to be another, "Guy makes fun of girl until she likes him" story, then they did it with May/Drew a lot better.

As for Zoey, she's ok but she is kinda a broken record. I think they should have played up the chemistry a bit more between her and Dawn like their debut ep suggested.

 

[Yamato-san]

maybe they'll make a future episode where Haruka returns and Nozomi starts hating on her Bashamo for being a Fighting-type used in contests... and because she obviously hates teh co- [shot]

 

[Cybersai]

I'd like to see Zoey meet Harley. They could start a website together.

 

[Marvel Girl]

I just find the Contest plotline much more interesting now that it's been rebooted with Dawn and her new rivals. Sure, Kenny was a flop, but I'll take an eternally PMSing lesbian (as much as I dislike her) and a bard who wears makeup over a Gary ripoff, a frighteningly horrid bishie wannabe, and a girl who actually likes Harley any day.

Zoey's no lesbian.

 

[Trainer Lisa]

Scott, about what you mentioned in the first post regarding contests getting more screentime than gyms, that is something I've been thinking about lately as well.

And personally, I'd prefer it if gyms would have more importance than contests.


However, I don't understand why the writers are allowing contests to have more screentime now. It seemed that the contests in Hoenn at least didn't get as much screentime as the gyms. They seemed more equal back then.

So why would they give contests in D/P more screentime than gyms? I mean, I understand that Dawn is a very popular character. But her contests shouldn't have a greater importance than Ash's gym battles.


Or, maybe the writers don't think contests are more important. Maybe they just want to get them out of the way. And by showing the contests first, it might be easier for them to handle the other storylines like Ash getting more badges, and meeting/battling the Elite Four.



Anyway, on a related-note, I do enjoy watching contests more in D/P, than I did with the Hoenn contests. But even so, I still don't like seeing Ash used as a character in the audience cheering for Dawn. In my opinion, it would make more sense for the writers to have him doing something important, like training his Pokemon. They did this a few times during May's contests. So I don't see why they can't have it happen during Dawn's contests too.

 

[Cybersai]

It seems like they're just really banking with them for some reason. I can see how an overload of Contests would tire some people, but they really seem to want them kept in our eye.

Maybe the Contest promotion will die down a bit, but I think we're already slated for a 5th Contest in Solaceon Town.

 

[Piplup]

How many times do I need to repeat that?
Ash isn't the only hero of the show for years already
Exactly like how the games added the option to play as a girls since they finally understood girls also like Pokémon the anime did the same
They started it as a new show with AG and made it so we have two heroes: a hero that has a plot that aimed more at boys (gyms) and that also act like the typical boy (like how clueless Ash is to love) and have Pokémon that will appeal more to boys ("cool" ones like Sceptile and more evolutions than previously because "evoluion=stornger!!1") and an equal heroine that has a plot that aimed more at girls (contests) and act like the typical girl (like how May at the time seemed the most girly character we had and how obviously she and Drew were in love) and have Pokémon that appeal more to girls (mostly cute and little/unevolved)

Since May was the first time the wrtiers had to make a character that will be totally equal to Ash in importance they did a lot of mistakes (like have Ash train while May is in a contest unlike how May sit and watch his gym battles or like not adding May to the text at the opening and not give her the importance of Ash in movies and generally still making it like Ash is a little more important)

Now that we again got a new show (DP) the writers decided to learn from their mistakes and this time to have a totally equal heroine that won't get any of those mistakes and that the fans will be able to easily get it that she's the heroine just like how Ash is the hero
The text in the Japanese opening already confirms that Dawn is equal to Ash in her importance
For almost 10 years and even in AG the text talked about "Ash" and now in DP they bothered to change it so it won't be "Ash" anymore but instead "Ash and Dawn"
From the summary of the 10th movie it seems like Ash and Dawn played totally equal roles and the DVD cover seems to indicate that as well (they even had the group go to the movie's city because there is a contest there and Dawn participated at the ending credits....)
The opening/ending CD feature Ash and Dawn equally too
From the beginning Dawn has her theme as the ending song and it seems to stay for a long time with new versions
At the more early episodes of DP Dawn read the titles of some of the episodes instead of Ash (and yes TR got one title too but only one)
Pokémon.com also said somewhere that in DP Ash won't be the only star but we'll also have Dawn


And if you'll make a list of DP's episodes and check how many Ash centered episodes and how many Dawn centered ones you'll see they got more or less the same amount
Also note how much Ash and Dawn coupled together not only for merchandise and such but in the actual show - the first three episodes that were like the opening to the show were: 1 - Dawn, 2 - Ash and Dawn equally, 3 - Ash... the following episode DP4 also had them play equal roles in the episode and both got Nando as a rival to both of them (since these first 4 epsiodes focused equally on both I'll start to count from DP5)
5-6 - Ash (2)
7 - Dawn (1) even if it's more Piplup it's her Pokémon and she taught it how to do an appeal
8 - Ash (3) though the episode was more important to Brock that was Ash that got the spotlight
9 - Dawn (2) the episode obviously was more important to her because of Buneary and the episode focused more on her
10 - Dawn (3) the episode focused more on her and she got the Pokétch
11-12 - Dawn (5) no matter that Ash also participated because he simply played the role of one shot coordinator that the writers proved to us they don't like anymore and prefer to use important characters instead... contest=Dawn no matter what
13 - Ash (4)
14 - Brock (1) XD
15-16 - Ash (6)
17 - Ash/Dawn were kinda equals (Ash trains for the gyms, Dawn trains for the contest, Dawn find out that the next contest is in Floaroma, Dawn saves Ash, Ash learns from Dawn's battle style) so I don't count it for either
18 - Ash (7)
19 - Dawn (6)
20 - Ash (8)
21 - Ash and Dawn were equals again so again I don't count
22 - Dawn (7) as I said contest=Dawn (even if it's unofficial) no matter who else participate
23 - no one seemed to get more than the others so again we don't count this
24 - Ash (9) though that episode is leading to the next Poffin episode that is connected to the contest
25 - Dawn (8) obviously Dawn is the most important in any contest or contest related episode and especially this one as she's the only one of the group to continue make Poffins and feed them to her Pokémon and she also use the Poffin she made to save her in the next episode that is a contest
26-27 - Dawn (10)
28 - Ash (10) note that until now they both have 10 ...
29 - Ash and Dawn were totally equal as the whole episode was about them learning to work together as Tag Battle partners so again don't count
30-32 - I don't think the episodes focused more on any of the main characters...
33 - Brock (2) except of the fact Brock got the egg everyone got equal screen time so it's either to count for Brock or not count at all... but poor Brock
34 - Dawn (11) while Ash and Zoey also battled Buizel that was Dawn that saved it from TR and battle it again and even catch it
35 - Dawn (12)
36 - no one got more than the others...
37 - Ash (11)
38 - Brock (3)
39 - the episode focused more on the Pokémon and when their trainers returned those were Ash and Dawn (and no Brock) that went to save them and also the 2 Pokémon that were supposed to be in charge are Ash's Pikachu and Dawn's Piplup (that seems to be Dawn's "Pikachu") that were congratulated by that old man that they're really leaders (because they had the youngers Pachirisu and Happiny escape first with Stravia) and the episode ended with the old man wising luck for Ash and Dawn in Hearthome's gym and contest... so again don't count but note how Ash and Dawn constantly get the spotlight and also coupled together a lot
40 - Ash (12)
41 - Dawn (13)
42 - Brock (4) arguable if to count this as Brock/James/Meowth but anyway that won't change anything for something that compare Ash and Dawn's amount of episodes
43 - again the episode focused on all the main characters so don't count
44-45 - Ash (14)
46 - Dawn (14) I'm not sure if to say no one got more spotlight or if it's more Dawn because of the Pokétch... but I think it's important enough (some people complain she doesn't use much the Pokétch but if all it can do currently is to check friendship and set time for the Poffins and now also coin toss I really can't blame her and hopefully she'll continue to get new things for it)
47 - no one got more than the others...
48 - this episode again emphasize how Ash and Dawn are equal heroes - it showed how Ash and Dawn met (nothing about Brock), Paul - Ash's rival, Zoey - Dawn's rival, gyms, contests and during all of that Ash and Dawn narrated the whole thing (and I think Pikachu and Piplup too XD) and they didn't say anything on Brock himself but did talk about his Pokémon when they showed the group's Pokémon XD also the episode title: "Ash and Dawn! Head for a New Adventure!!"
49 - Dawn (15)
50 - no one got more than the others... Ash Dawn and Brock found their partners and each of them had one battle (also I think they showed the whole battle of Ash and Dawn's but Brock's we got from the middle of the battle)
51 - Ash (15) and remeber how it was Dawn that talked with Ash when they saw how Paul tains Chimchar?
52 - Ash (16) though Brock and Dawn did battle and Dawn against Ash in the final battle and I think that battle also was longer

So currently it's Ash-16 Dawn-15
Totally equals (one episode more or less really doesn't change anything)
While some of the episodes like 46 are arguable who you should count I think how I decided was the best way to do it

People shouldn't say astupid things like "Dawn shoudln't steal Ash's spotlight" because it's stupid to say so
She doesn't steal anything - she is the heroine just like he is and they are supposed to get equal spotlight
Instead of again complaining like stupids about everything be happy they won't repeat the mistakes they did with May and that they finally learned how to make an equal heroine (though there is still a little to improve but they definitely got it right this time)

 

[Trainer Lisa]

Hmm....

I understand what you're saying, that both characters are equal. They are co-stars, and therefore, neither of them can "steal" each other's screentime.


But even so, that doesn't change the fact that Ash is still the main character. Yes, in terms of screentime, Ash and Dawn are equal. However, Ash should still be considered the main character, because the show has always centered on him with its storyline.

Dawn doesn't really have any big goals like that, aside from winning the Grand Festival and becoming a top coordinator. She's a co-star, yes, but she isn't the main character of the show.

 

[Piplup]

But even so, that doesn't change the fact that Ash is still the main character.

Ash and Dawn are totally equal in their role for the show

Yes, in terms of screentime, Ash and Dawn are equal. However, Ash should still be considered the main character,

No
They're both the two equal heroes of the show

because the show has always centered on him with its storyline.

You're going by the dub that made it all one series
By the original Japanese version PM/AG/DP are three different series
PM - Ash is the only hero and the plot is gyms - the show is aimed mainly at boys
AG - Ash and May are the heroes (though as I said they did a lot of mistakes with May since that was the first time they had to make an equal to Ash) and the plot is gyms and contests - the show is aimed at both boys and girls
DP - Ash and Dawn are the heroes (and now portaid as totally equals like how it should have been in AG) and like AG the plot is gyms and contests and the show is aimed at both boys and girls

Dawn doesn't really have any big goals like that, aside from winning the Grand Festival and becoming a top coordinator.

That's your invention to "big goal"
Her goal is exactly like Ash - collect some things and enter a tournament with the hope to win it and going to a lot of such journeys until achiving the goal to be a Master or Top coordinator

She's a co-star, yes, but she isn't the main character of the show.

She is
She is exactly what Ash is
Want it or not
And I really can't understand the people that against having two heroes... I can't see whats wrong here (it even make us get less fillers when the plot is double now)

And please don't say a stupid thing like "Dawn is replaceable" - so is Ash and any other character
It's all the writers decisions (and actually now we have a chance for a conclusion to Ash with the Sinnoh league and Sinnoh's E4)

Also every time the Japanese version start the show as a new show there is a chance for -any- of the characters to leave and that's including Ash

 

[Cybersai]

Think of it this way, Lisa, we've just made the transition with each series to a bigger emphasis on female characters.

Ash/Dawn spotlight is split at a nearly 50/50 level.
Ash/May spotlight was split more like 60/40 level.
Ash/Misty spotlight was split more like 80/20 level.

Each new female character has been given far more attention and spotlight episodes on the show than the last.

Although I did kind of like it how May wasn't shoved down our throats at the beginning. Since she knew nothing about Pokemon, it was more interesting to watch her simply learn from Ash and gather knowledge about Pokemon slowly as she went along. Then over the course of AG as she started getting more into battling and Contests, her spotlight episodes started to increase...and heck, she did practically get almost every non-Ash episode of AG. There were only a handful of episodes given to Max or Brock, everything else that wasn't Ash-centered was given to May.

Misty pretty much got the short end of the stick here, it honestly seemed like the attention on her decreased as her run continued.

 

[Piplup]

Scott... please... how much do I need to explain you that Misty wasn't a heroine like Ash/May/Dawn but a sidekick like Brock/Tracey/Max and simply wasn't supposed to get as much spotlight? just like all the rest of the sidekicks (and I think she actually got much more than the other sidekicks... Tracey and Max sure did less than her and Brock became the worst character because he's still here so I think Misty got the best treatment of the sidekicks... of course that only says how poor all of the sidekicks in this show and that we're possibly better without them... though a group of 2 will be strange but you have to compate sidekicks to sidekicks and the heroes to the heroes... you just can't comapte Misty to Ash/May/Dawn in importance but only to Brock/Tracey/Max)

 

[Cybersai]

I know that, I was just showing how we've made the transition. The problem is this fandom always compares Misty to May and Dawn for some strange reason. The only thing connecting them is they're all girls, but Misty has far more in common status wise with Brock than either May or Dawn.

There are some people around here, like a certain someone who shall remain nameless, that still tries to claim she played as big a role as the others, but we know that's just nonsense. The problem is we've never had another male hero, so all of Ash's sidekicks have been males (Brock, Max and Tracey) with the exception of Misty. Some people don't want to see her in that category, I dunno why.

 

[Piplup]

I know that, I was just showing how we've made the transition. The problem is this fandom always compares Misty to May and Dawn for some strange reason.

But you yourself compare them for no reason too
If you know Misty shouldn't be compared to them don't do it just because some stupids refuse to admit the role of a cartoon charater in its show

The only thing connecting them is they're all girls,

And that is no reason to compate them

There are some people around here, like a certain someone who shall remain nameless, that still tries to claim she played as big a role as the others, but we know that's just nonsense.

It is NOT arguable that the heroes are Ash/May/Dawn and that Misty/Brock/Tracey/Max are main characters but not the heroes ("sidekicks")
The obvious difference between those two groups is that the first are the characters that star in the show and actually do something and show focus on them while the other group are considered "main characters" just because they're stuck there every episode but don't do anything