Character Redesigns: Yay or Nay?

[Hidden Mew]

I really like these designs a lot. Brenden and May look great. I'm happy that they didn't change either one of them for a different character, although I didn't think that was too likely to happen anyway. Their outfits are pretty cool. They're like a mix between their R/S and Emerald outfit, but more modern. I actually like May's ribbon. Her bandana was cool, but this isn't bad for me. Brenden having darker toned skin was kind of surprising, but I'm fine with it. There's a good chance that we'll still get character customizations, but the default outfits work good enough for me to the point where I probably wouldn't mind if they didn't include that feature or I'd be more likely to keep those outfits.

Steven doesn't look too different, but he does give off a regal kind of vibe with what I think is the new Mega Evolution item. That's rather fitting given that he'll most likely be the Champion.

I like Team Magma's new designs. Their outfits are more unique than what they had originally. I was surprised with Tabitha's new design due to how drastic it is. It's strange, but I don't have too much of a problem with it. Tabitha has had different designs that don't really look too similar to each other, so another brand new design isn't too bad. At least the Team Magma Admin outfit looks significantly different from the grunt outfits. I think that Team Aqua has the best new designs. Their outfits are just awesome. They got style and flare. I especially like Shelly's design. Something about her just makes her look so cool. I think it's the hair, the outfit or the combination of the two. Both teams have a more unique design than I think was in their original designs. So, I'm pretty happy with the new designs.

 

[Mitchman]

I just realized the problem with the protags. They have no fingerless cyclist gloves like the originals! Ruined forever?

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

@Hidden Mew; Tabitha looks similar enough in games and the anime as for the many a he doesn't even get insider info so I wouldn't count it. He looks nothing like Tabitha anymore and there are so many better ways to differtiate him. Like I don't know the opposite of making him short. CEO's are all tall so a commander isn't likely to be a sphere.

Also socks with sandels?

 

[Chevrine]

I LOVE THE REDESIGNS. All of them. All. Of. Them.

Brendan: FINALLY a hat that no one can ever argue is his hair! It's NEVER been his hair! Ragh!

May: Super cute, and I love that she traded in her skirt for shorts!

Maxie: Pfffft, nerd. Suits him, though!

Tabitha: THIS IS MY FAVOURITE OF ALL Y'ALL BE HATIN' (no seriously though, could some of you make it any more obvious that you hate fat people? lolol stop) he was SO boring and bland before.

Courtney: FREAKING CUTIE

Grunts: I'll take this opportunity to voice my concern that it's great that they're opening up to body diversity, but it pains me that, other than one mild exception in the form of Lenora, they never seem to give the women anything other than a perfect model body, which is a can of worms I really don't care to dig into in regards to Pokemon, unfortunately. Other than that, grunts be STYLIN'.

Matt: BABY BABY BIG BARA BABY I LIKE -cough-

Shelly: I really loved her red hair, and she used to be my favourite, but NGL she's lookin' fierce as hell, here.

Archie: Pirate baby! -a repeat of what I said about Matt, basically)

Steven: Lookin' fiiiiiine, my man.

Aqua: I'm DIGGING the skin tones. I very much enjoy that it seems ambiguous, unlike Marlon, who I was so happy to see as a black person until I saw his horrendous tan line. I like that I can pretend this is racial diversity in this way, even though I know it's most likely tans.

Magma: Nerds. I like that the teams counter each other like that.

Most importantly, though: WHERE'S MY WALLY???? D<

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

@Chevine; it's a highly visual median so because he had so little character his design was most of his character. So by completely changing his character design type you are removing what little defining aspects of Tabitha. That puff ball stole one of my favorite villains from me.

 

[Chevrine]

That puff ball

could some of you make it any more obvious that you hate fat people? lolol stop

-ahem-

that aside, though, 'because he had so little character his design was his character' makes...no....sense

he had no character, and neither did his boring, thin, short-haired pale guy design. He looked like every other grunt. Literally NOTHING about him was distinct except in the manga, where he wasn't even NAMED Tabitha.

He was the white bread of Team Magma. You couldn't even call him toast. Just bread.


EDIT: also, he looked different in every medium he appeared in. you're literally only complaining because he went from 'typical stale piece of bread, absolutely nothing adventurous about his design in any version except maybe the manga' to 'fun fat guy', emphasis on the fat, because NOTHING about him other than, again, thin, pale, tallish, boring, was constant between his various designs, if you could even call that 'various'

step back and re-evaluate EXACTLY what your issue with this is and tell me i'm wrong.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Anime evolved out of Kabuki theater which used visual cues to illustrate character. The games use an anime style and has an anime adaptation. Tabitha's little character is that he is Maxie's THREATENING enforcer. This character looks goofy, disloyal and non threatening. He's just not the same guy anymore. And despite what little he did I liked the minor role Tabitha played.

I not even gonna bother with the ad hominem.

 

[Chevrine]

I can certainly agree that he looks too fun-loving--unfortunately, that's not what anyone wants to focus on, since fat people apparently can't be threatening or serious or, you know, respectable, haha.

However, I'm SUPER interested in seeing what they do with him BECAUSE he looks so enjoyable. For all we know, he could be one of those people who LOOKS friendly...and that deceptive appearance makes him all the more terrifying.

Give the guy a chance, is what I'm saying, and if anyone wants to hate on him, at least make it for reasons other than 'OMG FAT PPL ARE AWFUL', something I've seen come up alarmingly often in this thread. That's literally ALL I'm asking, here.

 

[The Outrage]

Anime evolved out of Kabuki theater which used visual cues to illustrate character. The games use an anime style and has an anime adaptation. Tabitha's little character is that he is Maxie's THREATENING enforcer. This character looks goofy, disloyal and non threatening. He's just not the same guy anymore. And despite what little he did I liked the minor role Tabitha played.

That's a bit of a stretch criticizing his character because of a far off association with Kabuki, especially when another Japanese series with an anime-esque visual style has no problem making a fat person a threatening villain (even if he was later portrayed as a coward).

Maybe its his goofy face that we can barely see that you have a problem with? Game Freak subverted a lot of visual cues in BW's boxart, so I don't see why the idea of subverting a character who looks non-threatening should be foreign to them just because you can connect their art style to Kabuki. Babyfaceness certainly hasn't stopped Winston Churchill.

Is it because he's short? Napoleon, apparently being average height for his time, is popularly depicted as short. Maybe he has a Napoleon complex?

And while we're talking about the validity of judging one's appearance as an indicator of character: An archival study finding that while heavy-set men did rank lower in the military, baby-faced men (i.e., low in facial maturity as Tabitha seems to be) garnered more awards for their heroism. The authors themselves attributed these findings to the contrast between the expectations one has due to the baby-face stereotype and the actual actions of the individuals. However, another interpretation is that these baby-faced individuals (much like the Napoleon Complex) would try to act more heroic/aggressive/dominating in order to combat these perceptions.

So what's my point? Your criticisms just seem like an after-the-fact explanation for your immediate dislike of his design. We all want these characters to be more complex, yet you've already fit them into a role based on traditional tropes and your preconceptions based on his appearance. I might not be so critical of your dislike for Tabitha's character had we actually been given anything to base it off of. Right now, you're just saying "Old Tabitha was threatening, new Tabitha doesn't look the part therefore bad" (not that Old Tabitha was really much of anything)

Don't even act like there isn't a prejudice against the fat and short in your decision when you've spelled out your "subconscious" in this post. And don't act like your stereotypes of fat people is unanimous amongst everyone.

Social intuitionism is the idea that we add our cognitive justifications for our moral objections after-the-fact. While this isn't really a moral objection, judgments on whether we like or dislike something is something we do almost intuitively (just like how we seem to intuitively know what is "morally wrong") so I wouldn't be surprised if this after-the-fact reasoning happens a lot to justify our simply prejudices in not liking a design (this, ignoring the fact that a lot of prejudices come from the emotion of disgust). Before I saw the above comment, I wasn't going to call you out on fat/height shaming--I mean you may have just been trying to look for a reason as to why you didn't like Tabitha's new design. But really, I'd have to agree with Chervine on this

 

[Hidden Mew]

Tabitha in the anime didn't look too much like his video game counterpart, but it's been awhile since I've played R/S/E, so I could be mistaken there. I do remember that the Team Magma admin outfits were barely different from the grunts outfits, so this is definitely an upgrade with his outfit. I don't quite remember him being Maxie's threatening right hand man enforcer either, but I don't see how being heavier could make it impossible for him to not be threatening. His action/dialogue in the game could still make him threatening. I wouldn't write his threat value just based off of his appearance.

 

[Chevrine]

Outrage, Hidden Mew--I just wanna let y'all know I appreciate you. Been in a real slump lately and cannot articulate on the level I usually do, and your input in the topic is wonderful.

Thank you <3

 

[The Outrage]

On the health = power thing as well:

Xerosic

He's more heavy-set than other characters (certainly isn't muscle he's hiding there), and his complexion glows with the health of a zombie--yet he's probably one of the most threatening (though evidently not evil) antagonists we have. I mean, he gives you a choice on whether the ultimate weapon gets activated, and if you choose correctly, he activates it anyway.

And then there's Wattson. He's definitely overweight but he's portrayed as being healthier than most characters if his Match call is any indication.

The association between health and weight is also a very cultural thing that has varied over time and location, so just because you view his weight as unhealthy, doesn't mean everyone does. I mean, if anything, I'd be worried about Courtney's hip or Shelly's neck being in those poses.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Perhaps threatening was the wrong word. I apologize. I'll replace with cool and direct. I liked him cause he looked like those things and now he doesn't. Simple as that.

 

[IlluminationTheory]

First off - I think the redesigns are A Good Thing™. The original admins had very little character, it was their first time doing a hierarchy with different characters and they were all a bit interchangable, but now they're all quite interesting and distinct. Good move.

Just because they have unique art, doesn't mean they're going to get any development. And just because they don't get in-game art, doesn't mean they aren't developed.

I'm going to wait to see how they actually play out in the game before I pass judgment on them being distinct. I mean, giving them a unique design is a step in the right direction, but we've seen an Ancient De-evolution regression in how Game Freak handles their characters this generation.

I didn't say anything about the writing! The original designs were a bit devoid of character, now they're all interesting and distinct. I agree with what you're saying!

Visual storytelling is vital, though, all the moreso in a voiceless medium. The art asset tells you something about the character before they've said a word - I read a Hiker's dialogue in a different voice to a Lass's, it gives you something to pin them on. The Flare girls all looked like scientists with funny visors - they had different character models, but they were basically distinguished by their haircuts. [ETA: I had something about Xerosic being more memorable even before you've battled him, here, but figured it was an unfair comparison as he gets so much post-game attention.] Whether you're battling Tabitha or Matt, the screen is going to tell a different story. You'll remember them as different people. Having played Ruby and Emerald but not Sapphire, I'd formerly have had to Google Aqua Admin Matt. Not so, any more - he's intimidating, he's a bodybuilder, he's a buccaneer...

 

[Chevrine]

Ahhhhh Xerosic. God, what a total creep. He's EASILY the most threatening villain I've ever seen in Pokemon--while Ghetsis and others might be intimidating, Xerosic's actions alone are the single most violent thing done in any Pokemon game, though he thankfully does not succeed. You can kill a Marowak, you can try to destroy the land, you can steal Pokemon, or seriously deliberate destroying the world, but this guy...he had every intent on doing it, AND he used a child as his means.


Yeah, no, I'm definitely eager to see more from Tabitha...and he was my least favourite or even REMEMBERED admin before now.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Shelley no!

 

[firepanda]

I like most of them. I think Brendan's darker skin is cool, but his eyes really should have been darker. The blue eyes with dark skin are weird. Also annoyed they didn't change the unappealing backpacks.

The grunts themselves are much better. The admins and leaders are a vast improvement: there's much more personality.

However.
Maxie, take those glasses off, you look ridiculous.

 

[Aulos]

All I cared to see was that May wasn't replaced.

That said, neither May nor Brenden have ever been my favorite designs. This most certainly doesn't change anything. However, it could be worse... No, really, I don't care for Brenden and his... hat? I'm a girl and play as a girl, though, so it doesn't matter anyway I guess. xD

 

[DoctorWhy]

Anybody else think that Matt looks a lot like Barret Wallace from Final Fantasy VII?

Spoiler

Huge hands (forget that Barret's missing one), huge legs and feet, darker skin, very muscular, etc. Matt looks like he wants a Mega Swampert. XD

 

[Maxie the Weavile]

Magma is ok with the exception of Tabitha. Aqua is ok too