Competitive Umbreon?

[rayner2710]

Hey there!
I want to put an Umbreon on my team and I was wondering what the best set to run would be. I know that Foul PLay and Heal Bell are common but they are Gen 5 transfer moves and I'm not sure I would be able to get them. Anyway, any suggestions with regard to Nature, EV's, Movesets, etc. would be helpful!
Thanks xx

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize
Calm
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp Def
~Wish
~Curse
~Baton Pass
~Protect/Yawn/Toxic

Bulky pivot Umbreon is your best bet if you lack Foul Play and Heal Bell. Do note that Umbreon is almost completely outclassed by Sylveon these days, and that this isn't even his optimal set as you lack some pivotal moves, but if you like Umbreon and are not a big Sylveon fan, this set should serve you well.

 

[JustJeff]

I used an Umbreon before and I must say that 'Foul Play' is a must have. Umbreon doesn't have a good movepool and is mostly used to support the team w/
wish passing and healing status'. Other than that, the best set to go for is a Toxic stalling 1 or a Bulky Pivot 1, and Glory Blaze got you on that.

 

[Twinkles the Marvel Horse]

Bulky pivot Umbreon is your best bet if you lack Foul Play and Heal Bell. Do note that Umbreon is almost completely outclassed by Sylveon these days, and that this isn't even his optimal set as you lack some pivotal moves, but if you like Umbreon and are not a big Sylveon fan, this set should serve you well.

I don't think Foul Play is pivotal, Umbreon still works as a solid staller without it considering its bulk. Plus, Sylveon really only has the capacity to be special, whereas Umbreon can be either special or physical (granted Sylveon has the superior typing).

This is another possible set:
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize
Careful/Impish
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp Def (Def and Sp Def can be alternated based on the role you need on a team)
-Wish
-Payback/Refresh
-Protect
-Yawn/Toxic

 

[TerraTF]

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize
Calm
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp Def
~Wish
~Curse
~Baton Pass
~Protect/Yawn/Toxic

Bulky pivot Umbreon is your best bet if you lack Foul Play and Heal Bell. Do note that Umbreon is almost completely outclassed by Sylveon these days, and that this isn't even his optimal set as you lack some pivotal moves, but if you like Umbreon and are not a big Sylveon fan, this set should serve you well.

I'm gonna have to toss Foul Play at the end of that fourth move. You don't want a Pokemon on your team completely broken by Taunt.

 

[Stardust_Trainer]

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize
Calm
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp Def
~Wish
~Curse
~Baton Pass
~Protect/Yawn/Toxic

Bulky pivot Umbreon is your best bet if you lack Foul Play and Heal Bell. Do note that Umbreon is almost completely outclassed by Sylveon these days, and that this isn't even his optimal set as you lack some pivotal moves, but if you like Umbreon and are not a big Sylveon fan, this set should serve you well.

I'm gonna have to toss Foul Play at the end of that fourth move. You don't want a Pokemon on your team completely broken by Taunt.

He said Foul Play isnt an option due to it being a transfer move in the OP. If it was, a different set with Foul Play would be included. Which I might add, you'll have to be careful to dodge Taunt-users if you follow that to the letter. Payback is another option as Twinkles posted.

If you need any transfer moves on certain Pokemon, im sure scouting in the Trade Center could help you or asking around.

 

[TerraTF]

He said Foul Play isnt an option due to it being a transfer move in the OP. If it was, a different set with Foul Play would be included. Which I might add, you'll have to be careful to dodge Taunt-users if you follow that to the letter. Payback is another option as Twinkles posted.

If you need any transfer moves on certain Pokemon, im sure scouting in the Trade Center could help you or asking around.

If an Umbreon doesn't have Foul Play its not even worth being considered. Its only use is Foul Play. Payback is basically a nerfed Foul Play that would probably only hit Aegislash for a OHKO at +2 if its lucky.

 

[Stofen]

Not much more to add but I will admit these things are pretty freaking tanky for such a delicate looking fox/cat/thing. I remember in a Battle Maison 3v3 how my Adamant Hawlucha ended up losing to a Leftovers Umbreon because it managed to survive a HJK and then hit me with Swagger. After that the bloody thing simply had my Hawlucha kill itself because of Swagtect.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

He said Foul Play isnt an option due to it being a transfer move in the OP. If it was, a different set with Foul Play would be included. Which I might add, you'll have to be careful to dodge Taunt-users if you follow that to the letter. Payback is another option as Twinkles posted.

If you need any transfer moves on certain Pokemon, im sure scouting in the Trade Center could help you or asking around.

If an Umbreon doesn't have Foul Play its not even worth being considered. Its only use is Foul Play. Payback is basically a nerfed Foul Play that would probably only hit Aegislash for a OHKO at +2 if its lucky.

No need to be so negative xD! Foul Play is one of Unbreon's charms, but he can still play as a poor man's Sylveon (and he can wall Bisharp, which Sylveon sorely wishes it could). And Taunt is not nearly as common as people make it out to be -"Taunt-bait" is fine for one of your Pokémon, as Taunt is easy to spot and play around - did they switch in their Haxorus as you were boosting up? Time to switch to an offensive Fairy or Dragon, Taunt's incoming! Thundurus or Mandibuzz switch in? Bring in the Choicer, wall breaking time! Etc. To a good player, Taunt is basically "Free Switch-in: The Move", and it's best utility is in forcing switches and shouting down leads. It is NOT a reliable mid-game counter to support Pokémon, as they can just switch. What you really want to do is bring in that Haxorus or Thundurus and then go for Dragon Dance or Nadty Plot, as any same player would switch when you being a known Taunter in on a wall/support Pokémon.

@Twinkles the Marvel Horse
Both of Umbreon's offensive stats are crud anyways - even at +1 or 2, he won't be doing much damage. Sylveon, even though only his SpA is high, actually has offensive presence - without investment, even, due to Pixilate. This makes an actual pro for Sylveon in the offense department, not a con like you made it out to be.

 

[chaos_Leader]

I've actually been thinking about ways to really utilize an Umbreon.

One of my ideas, for a doubles Umbreon specifically, is to partner it up with a Gourgeist to trick or treat the Umbreon and add the ghost typing to it. Giving Umbreon the ghost type takes away the weakness to fighting moves by making it an immunity, without really adding any glaring weaknesses. However, lets take a look back at the setup example that -Glory Blaze- gave us earlier for Umbreon:

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize
Calm
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp Def
~Wish
~Curse
~Baton Pass
~Protect/Yawn/Toxic

Curse

Consider what Curse does when used by a ghost mon: it rips off 1/4 of the max hp of the target every turn, regardless of weaknesses or resistances, and it completely bypasses protect/detect/safeguard/what have you. The only way out of a Ghost Curse is to switch out. Yes it costs half the user's hp to set up, but this Umbreon has Wish, which can easily replenish the hp it spent setting the curse up.

This opens up a whole slew of possibilities: force the opponent to constantly switch out or take the brunt of the curse, maybe add some entry hazards; drop in a partner mon that can trap the opponent and force them to swallow the curse; there's probably more. I'm still considering how such a setup could be utilized. What do you guys think?

 

[TerraTF]

I've actually been thinking about ways to really utilize an Umbreon.

One of my ideas, for a doubles Umbreon specifically, is to partner it up with a Gourgeist to trick or treat the Umbreon and add the ghost typing to it. Giving Umbreon the ghost type takes away the weakness to fighting moves by making it an immunity, without really adding any glaring weaknesses. However, lets take a look back at the setup example that -Glory Blaze- gave us earlier for Umbreon:

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize
Calm
252 HP/4 Def/252 Sp Def
~Wish
~Curse
~Baton Pass
~Protect/Yawn/Toxic

Curse

Consider what Curse does when used by a ghost mon: it rips off 1/4 of the max hp of the target every turn, regardless of weaknesses or resistances, and it completely bypasses protect/detect/safeguard/what have you. The only way out of a Ghost Curse is to switch out. Yes it costs half the user's hp to set up, but this Umbreon has Wish, which can easily replenish the hp it spent setting the curse up.

This opens up a whole slew of possibilities: force the opponent to constantly switch out or take the brunt of the curse, maybe add some entry hazards; drop in a partner mon that can trap the opponent and force them to swallow the curse; there's probably more. I'm still considering how such a setup could be utilized. What do you guys think?

That's stupid. Regular Curse gives out +1 Atk and +1 Def for just -1 Spe. That's the whole point of a Baton Pass Umbreon. Do you know nothing?

 

[chaos_Leader]

That's stupid. Regular Curse gives out +1 Atk and +1 Def for just -1 Spe. That's the whole point of a Baton Pass Umbreon. Do you know nothing?

Trick/Treat Curse simply opens up another tool without making any changes to the Umbreon, while eliminating a major weakness. It can still function as the Buffing Baton Passer, simply by not pursuing the Trick/Treat option when the Umbreon comes out.

 

[Master Mew]

I probably wouldn't bother with Baton Pass in Doubles anyway, in which case I wouldn't bother with Umbreon I would replace Baton Pass with an attack, and Umbreon surely has some attacks that can deal 1/4 damage per turn without costing 1/2 his HP so... I'd probably drop Curse for Doubles as well (at least if you're Trick-or-Treating him - which is intriguing but also pretty gimmicky and there are probably better uses for that turn of setup).

 

[DCM]

without foul play, umbreon is not worth using. they're right, you are total taunt bait if you leave yourself in (outpredicting is not a great response to this, considering you can very easily overpredict or be outpredicted yourself.) Even if you want a baton pass set, I would recommend Espeon / Vaporeon / Sylveon over Umbreon if you lack foul play.

 

[Lord Kyuubi]

Umbreon has lived in vaporeon's shadow for ages now, as a defensive eeveelution. It gets worse now newcomer sylveon has come along and literally stolen umbreon's niche. And now umbreon is in the same tier as vaporeon. I'd consider saying that umbreon is possibly even less fortunate than dear old flareon. Ouch.

What makes matters worse is that umbreon's main tricks over the others are A: foul play, which you don't have access to, and B: looking even more gorgeous (in vaporeon's case - being prettier than sylveon is no real achievement) and that doesn't help in lethal combat. Unless of course, your opponent is so distracted by his or her beauty that they don't concentrate on the battle, but that's unlikely.

My point is, considering umbreon's unfortunate place in life, there's not much you can do with one. I guess your best bet is a basic toxic stalling set, using either defence stat (something the other two can't do - vaporeon can balance his or her defences by investing in physical or can specialise in special, sylveon just faints at the mere mention of the word 'physical'), wish and protect for healing, and payback as your attack. Unfortunately, nothing special. Poor umbreon.

I guess you could try a confusion-based strategy, using confuse ray, but that's not great, since people can just switch to cure it, and it's unreliable at the best of times. Maybe combine that with toxic, and you can get nice damage over time if your plan goes well... or, as is more likely, it will go wrong.

Maybe you could try baton-passing work ups to something, but the others can do that too, and it's a subpar boosting move anyway. I'm not exactly sure what you'd pass it to, either, so it's really not a very good suggestion.

You could, on the other hand, try a monotype dark team, which is what I did literally because I wanted to use umbreon. The obvious problem is that this means not using umbreon in standard play. However, on the plus side, umbreon gets to be the best at something - namely, the toughest defensive dark type. Especially important as the dark type typically lacks defensive power somewhat. Still, not being in standard play means you're not really using it 'truly', if you get what I mean. Up to you, really.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

I probably wouldn't bother with Baton Pass in Doubles anyway, in which case I wouldn't bother with Umbreon I would replace Baton Pass with an attack, and Umbreon surely has some attacks that can deal 1/4 damage per turn without costing 1/2 his HP so... I'd probably drop Curse for Doubles as well (at least if you're Trick-or-Treating him - which is intriguing but also pretty gimmicky and there are probably better uses for that turn of setup).

Wait, is this for doubles? I don't see that in the OP.

without foul play, umbreon is not worth using. they're right, you are total taunt bait if you leave yourself in (outpredicting is not a great response to this, considering you can very easily overpredict or be outpredicted yourself.) Even if you want a baton pass set, I would recommend Espeon / Vaporeon / Sylveon over Umbreon if you lack foul play.

Foul Play does not make or break the mon. Remember: a) Taunt is predictable if you have a good eye, b) even if you are outpredicted all that happens is you lost a singular turn, and most Taunters besides Haxorus are utility Pokémon that cannot set up on your forced switch, and c) you can run Bite if you really, really, really are worried about Taunt.

Anyays, for all the people bandying about the "Taunt-bait argument", behold the literally worst case scenario: Umbreon vs Haxorus:

The opponent sent out Haxorus!
Umbreon used Curse!

BEST CASE:
The foe's Haxorus used Dragon Dance! (predicting your hard switch)
Umbreon used Baton Pass! Go, (insert somewhat bulky physical attacker here!)

Haxorus used Outrage! Bulky physical attacker took damage but survived thanks to the Curse boost.
BPA used STAB move! Haxorus fainted!

MEDIUM CASE:
Umbreon, return! Go, Choice'd Pokémon!
Haxorus used Taunt! CP fell for the Taunt!

CP used STAB move! Haxorus fainted!

Or WORST CASE:
Haxorus used Taunt!
Umbreon can't use Baton Pass after the Taunt.

Umbreon, return! Go, Focus Sash/Choice Scarf Pokémon!
Haxorus used Dragon Dance!

Haxorus used Outrage (if Focus Sash'd)!
Focus Sash'd Pokémon held on with its Focus Sash!
FSP used STAB move! Haxorus fainted!
(else, CS'd Pokémon outspeeds and OHKOes)

So the WORST CASE scenario is that your Sash'r is brought down to one or you have to lock your Scarfer prematurely. "But what if your Scarfer/FS'r is dead?" Team Preview exists, folks. If you see a Haxorus, SAVE THEM FOR IT. "What if I don't have one?" A team withut a revengekiller is not well put together, sorry mate.

Umbreon is not that good - I know that, the OP knows that, all y'all obviously know that. But just saying "He's worthless without Foul Play, don't use him" is pretty close-minded and negative of y'all and it doesn't help the OP with his problem. We should endeavor to help him find ways to use his favorite Pokémon, not discourage him by saying it's worthless. A bad Pokémon still has its uses and can fill a niche - like I mentioned earlier, Umbreon walls Bisharp, who is one of the best Pokémon in the game right now. Maybe the OP could build a team using threatening sweepers that might not work well together because they are Bisharp-weak, then use Umbreon to offset that and allow them to be used on the same team. Not to dish on you guys, but we should encourage experimentation with all sorts of Pokémon, even the 'bad' ones.

 

[DCM]

without foul play, umbreon is not worth using. they're right, you are total taunt bait if you leave yourself in (outpredicting is not a great response to this, considering you can very easily overpredict or be outpredicted yourself.) Even if you want a baton pass set, I would recommend Espeon / Vaporeon / Sylveon over Umbreon if you lack foul play.

Foul Play does not make or break the mon. Remember: a) Taunt is predictable if you have a good eye, b) even if you are outpredicted all that happens is you lost a singular turn, and most Taunters besides Haxorus are utility Pokémon that cannot set up on your forced switch, and c) you can run Bite if you really, really, really are worried about Taunt.

Spoiler

Anyays, for all the people bandying about the "Taunt-bait argument", behold the literally worst case scenario: Umbreon vs Haxorus:

The opponent sent out Haxorus!
Umbreon used Curse!

BEST CASE:
The foe's Haxorus used Dragon Dance! (predicting your hard switch)
Umbreon used Baton Pass! Go, (insert somewhat bulky physical attacker here!)

Haxorus used Outrage! Bulky physical attacker took damage but survived thanks to the Curse boost.
BPA used STAB move! Haxorus fainted!

MEDIUM CASE:
Umbreon, return! Go, Choice'd Pokémon!
Haxorus used Taunt! CP fell for the Taunt!

CP used STAB move! Haxorus fainted!

Or WORST CASE:
Haxorus used Taunt!
Umbreon can't use Baton Pass after the Taunt.

Umbreon, return! Go, Focus Sash/Choice Scarf Pokémon!
Haxorus used Dragon Dance!

Haxorus used Outrage (if Focus Sash'd)!
Focus Sash'd Pokémon held on with its Focus Sash!
FSP used STAB move! Haxorus fainted!
(else, CS'd Pokémon outspeeds and OHKOes)

So the WORST CASE scenario is that your Sash'r is brought down to one or you have to lock your Scarfer prematurely. "But what if your Scarfer/FS'r is dead?" Team Preview exists, folks. If you see a Haxorus, SAVE THEM FOR IT. "What if I don't have one?" A team withut a revengekiller is not well put together, sorry mate.

Umbreon is not that good - I know that, the OP knows that, all y'all obviously know that. But just saying "He's worthless without Foul Play, don't use him" is pretty close-minded and negative of y'all and it doesn't help the OP with his problem. We should endeavor to help him find ways to use his favorite Pokémon, not discourage him by saying it's worthless. A bad Pokémon still has its uses and can fill a niche - like I mentioned earlier, Umbreon walls Bisharp, who is one of the best Pokémon in the game right now. Maybe the OP could build a team using threatening sweepers that might not work well together because they are Bisharp-weak, then use Umbreon to offset that and allow them to be used on the same team. Not to dish on you guys, but we should encourage experimentation with all sorts of Pokémon, even the 'bad' ones.

Couple issues with your argument. Firstly, you've gone ahead and assumed a couple things, the worst of them being that your opponent is almost entirely incompetent. Firstly, even if they were using Haxorus, why would they set up knowing the opponent had a pokemon that could OHKO them? Punish the switch or double switch. Secondly, why are they using Haxorus when there are so many better taunt pokemon (thundurus, heatran, mandibuzz, deoxys-s, greninja) Lastly, you again assume you can overpredict your opponent every single time. Without perfect prediction, Umbreon is useless without foul play (and even with it, you don't get much. What can safely switch in, out run and OHKO +1 attack / +1 speed haxorus? following your example.) The majority of taunt pokemon don't lock themselves into moves that don't let them switch. Don't use Umbreon without foul play. he's taking the place of a pokemon that could do it better.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Couple issues with your argument. Firstly, you've gone ahead and assumed a couple things, the worst of them being that your opponent is almost entirely incompetent. Firstly, even if they were using Haxorus, why would they set up knowing the opponent had a pokemon that could OHKO them? Punish the switch or double switch. Secondly, why are they using Haxorus when there are so many better taunt pokemon (thundurus, heatran, mandibuzz, deoxys-s, greninja) Lastly, you again assume you can overpredict your opponent every single time. Without perfect prediction, Umbreon is useless without foul play (and even with it, you don't get much. What can safely switch in, out run and OHKO +1 attack / +1 speed haxorus? following your example.) The majority of taunt pokemon don't lock themselves into moves that don't let them switch. Don't use Umbreon without foul play. he's taking the place of a pokemon that could do it better.

Haxorus is a wallbreaker as opposed to a sweeper most of the time, that's why it runs Taunt and Outrage>Dragon Claw. Thus it usually has no qualms with setting up with its checks/counters still around as long as it can go out with a bang, especially since one of its primary roles in OU is to die while weakening its checks as the wingman in a Double Dragon core.

The other Taunters do not often set up (Thundurus sometimes carries Nasty Plot but more often runs Thunder Wave, Volt Switch, and a coverage move). Thus Umbreon vs them is not nearly as nerveracking or pivotal as Umbreon vs Haxorus, as a switch will not be punished as harshly as letting the foe set up a 147 base attack monster, and some of them (mandibuzz, heatran) are walls - they can Toxic you or whatever but it's not like they can really "punish a switch-in" as wallbreakers don't mind poison too much as they are meant to die young anyways.

Taunt is easy to predict, for one, and for two, even if you are playing against a better player and don't know for certain you can outpredict them, it's still a coinflip. You have a 50/50 chance of pulling the right move regardless. And even if you pick the wrong move, if you want to restrict your teambuilding to only Pokémon with offensive presence because you can't outplay a coin flip, that's your problem tbh. :/

Scarf Hydreigon, Noivern, Kyurem-B (assuming 240 Speed Adamant Haxorus vs 252 Speed Jolly Kyu-B), etc outspeed and OHKO. Mega Scizor is not 2HKOed by +1 Outrage and kills with Bug Bite-Bullet Punch. Aegislash eats 2 +1 Outrages and KOes with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak. Band Talonflame OHKOes 87.5% of the time after Stealth Rock. Haxorus is really not that bulky.

The majority of Taunt Pokémon are walls that are easy to play around.

Just wondering, what's your fav Pokémon and do you use it competitively?

 

[DCM]

Couple issues with your argument. Firstly, you've gone ahead and assumed a couple things, the worst of them being that your opponent is almost entirely incompetent. Firstly, even if they were using Haxorus, why would they set up knowing the opponent had a pokemon that could OHKO them? Punish the switch or double switch. Secondly, why are they using Haxorus when there are so many better taunt pokemon (thundurus, heatran, mandibuzz, deoxys-s, greninja) Lastly, you again assume you can overpredict your opponent every single time. Without perfect prediction, Umbreon is useless without foul play (and even with it, you don't get much. What can safely switch in, out run and OHKO +1 attack / +1 speed haxorus? following your example.) The majority of taunt pokemon don't lock themselves into moves that don't let them switch. Don't use Umbreon without foul play. he's taking the place of a pokemon that could do it better.

Haxorus is a wallbreaker as opposed to a sweeper most of the time, that's why it runs Taunt and Outrage>Dragon Claw. Thus it usually has no qualms with setting up with its checks/counters still around as long as it can go out with a bang, especially since one of its primary roles in OU is to die while weakening its checks as the wingman in a Double Dragon core.

The other Taunters do not often set up (Thundurus sometimes carries Nasty Plot but more often runs Thunder Wave, Volt Switch, and a coverage move). Thus Umbreon vs them is not nearly as nerveracking or pivotal as Umbreon vs Haxorus, as a switch will not be punished as harshly as letting the foe set up a 147 base attack monster, and some of them (mandibuzz, heatran) are walls - they can Toxic you or whatever but it's not like they can really "punish a switch-in" as wallbreakers don't mind poison too much as they are meant to die young anyways.

Taunt is easy to predict, for one, and for two, even if you are playing against a better player and don't know for certain you can outpredict them, it's still a coinflip. You have a 50/50 chance of pulling the right move regardless. And even if you pick the wrong move, if you want to restrict your teambuilding to only Pokémon with offensive presence because you can't outplay a coin flip, that's your problem tbh. :/

Scarf Hydreigon, Noivern, Kyurem-B (assuming 240 Speed Adamant Haxorus vs 252 Speed Jolly Kyu-B), etc outspeed and OHKO. Mega Scizor is not 2HKOed by +1 Outrage and kills with Bug Bite-Bullet Punch. Aegislash eats 2 +1 Outrages and KOes with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak. Band Talonflame OHKOes 87.5% of the time after Stealth Rock. Haxorus is really not that bulky.

The majority of Taunt Pokémon are walls that are easy to play around.

Just wondering, what's your fav Pokémon and do you use it competitively?

Haxorus is nowhere near common enough to plan a specific pokemon around. There are other far more common taunters that you should be worrying about and they are almost always in a win scenario against umbreon.

taunt is easy to predict, but so are switches from utility pokemon out. There are certainly pokemon that aren't offensively orientated that can deal with taunt, and taunt definitely has the potential to mess up teams. We are talking about one specific pokemon with a moveset lacking any attacking moves as listed. Umbreon needs foul play. I would be happy to suggest alternative pokemon, but you might as well start planning a Rotom-Wash without volt switch and hydro-pump. It's a waste of time.

Bidoof and Tyrantum, and nope. if you want to battle with friends, it's fine to use gimmick sets and play with your favorite pokemon. If you want to enter the competitive scene, you shouldn't be building a team around a favorite pokemon without its essential move. This is competitive advice, not shoehorning favorites into the meta. And I don't use pokemon with only an offensive presence, most of my teams are heavy stall

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Couple issues with your argument. Firstly, you've gone ahead and assumed a couple things, the worst of them being that your opponent is almost entirely incompetent. Firstly, even if they were using Haxorus, why would they set up knowing the opponent had a pokemon that could OHKO them? Punish the switch or double switch. Secondly, why are they using Haxorus when there are so many better taunt pokemon (thundurus, heatran, mandibuzz, deoxys-s, greninja) Lastly, you again assume you can overpredict your opponent every single time. Without perfect prediction, Umbreon is useless without foul play (and even with it, you don't get much. What can safely switch in, out run and OHKO +1 attack / +1 speed haxorus? following your example.) The majority of taunt pokemon don't lock themselves into moves that don't let them switch. Don't use Umbreon without foul play. he's taking the place of a pokemon that could do it better.

Haxorus is a wallbreaker as opposed to a sweeper most of the time, that's why it runs Taunt and Outrage>Dragon Claw. Thus it usually has no qualms with setting up with its checks/counters still around as long as it can go out with a bang, especially since one of its primary roles in OU is to die while weakening its checks as the wingman in a Double Dragon core.

The other Taunters do not often set up (Thundurus sometimes carries Nasty Plot but more often runs Thunder Wave, Volt Switch, and a coverage move). Thus Umbreon vs them is not nearly as nerveracking or pivotal as Umbreon vs Haxorus, as a switch will not be punished as harshly as letting the foe set up a 147 base attack monster, and some of them (mandibuzz, heatran) are walls - they can Toxic you or whatever but it's not like they can really "punish a switch-in" as wallbreakers don't mind poison too much as they are meant to die young anyways.

Taunt is easy to predict, for one, and for two, even if you are playing against a better player and don't know for certain you can outpredict them, it's still a coinflip. You have a 50/50 chance of pulling the right move regardless. And even if you pick the wrong move, if you want to restrict your teambuilding to only Pokémon with offensive presence because you can't outplay a coin flip, that's your problem tbh. :/

Scarf Hydreigon, Noivern, Kyurem-B (assuming 240 Speed Adamant Haxorus vs 252 Speed Jolly Kyu-B), etc outspeed and OHKO. Mega Scizor is not 2HKOed by +1 Outrage and kills with Bug Bite-Bullet Punch. Aegislash eats 2 +1 Outrages and KOes with Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak. Band Talonflame OHKOes 87.5% of the time after Stealth Rock. Haxorus is really not that bulky.

The majority of Taunt Pokémon are walls that are easy to play around.

Just wondering, what's your fav Pokémon and do you use it competitively?

Haxorus is nowhere near common enough to plan a specific pokemon around. There are other far more common taunters that you should be worrying about and they are almost always in a win scenario against umbreon.

taunt is easy to predict, but so are switches from utility pokemon out. There are certainly pokemon that aren't offensively orientated that can deal with taunt, and taunt definitely has the potential to mess up teams. We are talking about one specific pokemon with a moveset lacking any attacking moves as listed. Umbreon needs foul play. I would be happy to suggest alternative pokemon, but you might as well start planning a Rotom-Wash without volt switch and hydro-pump. It's a waste of time.

Bidoof and Tyrantum, and nope. if you want to battle with friends, it's fine to use gimmick sets and play with your favorite pokemon. If you want to enter the competitive scene, you shouldn't be building a team around a favorite pokemon without its essential move. This is competitive advice, not shoehorning favorites into the meta. And I don't use pokemon with only an offensive presence, most of my teams are heavy stall

Exactly! Haxorus isn't very common. You don't have to worry about it. The other, more common Taunters fall into two categories: Leads (which Umbreon will almost never face) and walls (which can't punish a switch-in). So no worries about not packing an attacking move.

Umbreon does not need Foul Play. Umbreon enjoys Foul Play as a way to have offensive presence without investment, in order to sort of keep up with Sylveon. Your argument that it needs Foul Play to avoid becoming "Taunt-bait" is completely flawed. What Taunter will Umbreon be doing good damage to with Foul Play?

Umbreon Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0- Atk / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 18-22 (4.2 - 5.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Umbreon Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0- Atk/ 4 Def Deoxys-D: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Umbreon Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0- Atk / 0 Def Heatran: 69-82 (17.8 - 21.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

Umbreon Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Atk / 184+ Def Gliscor: 64-76 (18 - 21.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Umbreon Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0- Atk / 0 Def Greninja: 53-63 (18.5 - 22%) -- possible 5HKO

Umbreon Foul Play vs. 248 HP / 0- Atk / 244 Def Zapdos: 64-76 (16.7 - 19.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

Need I go on? Foul Play is as good as a big pile of poop against all these, so Haxorus (who is NOT THAT COMMON, as we both agree) is the only relevant case in which Foul Play prevents you from being shut down by Taunt. Foul Play is there to speed up matches against physical attackers, not as a check to Taunt.

Darn. I was going to lecture you about being hypocritical but whatevs xD

Do you honestly run full-stall and have every single one of your 6 Pokémon pack a decently strong attacking move? Not a single full support Pokémon?