Do you suppose the third games are canon?

[Somari]

There was a thread like this a few months ago but it's outdated due to BW. I suppose we can talk about it again. It's not all that much of a talked about topic.

The third games are:

Blue.
Crystal.
Emerald.
Platinum.

The remakes replace Blue and Crystal in the timeline, but you can put them into their own alternate timeline.

A lot of people in the west mix up what the third Gen 1 game is, saying that none of that happened or referring to the differences from the other two games. But Yellow is the fourth game, not the third.

From what I've heard in BW..

Spoiler

Cynthia refers to Platinum by saying that you remind them of a person who defeated Giratina thus putting Platinum as the canon role.

The third games are a middle ground between the first two games in terms of Pokemon, add new events, and add more depth.

A lot of people think HGSS proofs Emerald isn't the canon game due to Steven saying he's the champion. It appears champions cling onto their titles though or people aren't looking at the context. Didn't he retire as a champion anyway?

 

[Mr. Slowpoke]

I pretty much believe that when a 3rd version is released (be it Blue or Platinum) said game replaces the first two games in the actual canon.
But that's just me...
Also about Steven claiming to be champion in HGSS: Maybe he got his title back from Wallace. The games never clearly state how much time there was between Emerald and HGSS.

 

[Ivysaur]

I only consider third versions and remakes canon, since the first two versions of each generation contradict each other far too much to be considered it.

The remakes replace Blue and Crystal in the timeline, but you can put them into their own alternate timeline.

I just disregard the first two generations entirely, as they several aspects of them were retconned with their respective remakes.

A lot of people think HGSS proofs Emerald isn't the canon game due to Steven saying he's the champion. It appears champions cling onto their titles though or people aren't looking at the context. Didn't he retire as a champion anyway?

It's possible Steven reclaimed the position later on, or he (like Red) is still referred to as a Champion while not actually retaining the position. So personally, I believe they cling to their titles. I still regard Emerald as the canon Hoenn game.

 

[rbogey]

I agree Mr. Slowpoke. It seems that Emerald and Platinum replaced the main story lines of Hoenn and Sinnoh respectively. This may not be the case with Crystal though. I'm also curious to how Blue changed things in Japan.

 

[Orion-Sama]

Yes. Especially in latter Generations. It makes more sense to have Emerald's and Platinum's story happen than it does to have either Ruby/Sapphire or Diamond/Pearl story happen.

Black and White pretty much confirm this, as well.

By the way, Blue's storyline is the exact same as Red/Green. They just changed the Sprites, the in-game trades, some wild Pokémon, and some caves, if I recall right. Bulbapedia has a good list of changes. Yellow doesn't count because it's obviously a mix of Anime and Games.

 

[Silktree]

Saying that HGSS overwrite Crystal is good and well, but HeartGold and SoulSilver don't have identical stories: They differ from each other in exactly the same way as the main versions of recent generations do. To put a fine point on it, in HeartGold the Kimono Girls regard Ho-Oh as the restorer of the relationship between people and Pokémon, and in SoulSilver that role is given to Lugia; both versions neglect to mention what the role of the other version mascot is.

If Crystal didn't exist, there would be no way to tell that the people of Ecruteak are more concerned with Ho-Oh than they are with Lugia; anyone who is eager to remove Crystal from the Generation IV universe should keep that in mind. Frankly, Crystal's story makes more sense than HeartGold's does; the legendary beasts are a more logical catalyst for Ho-Oh's return than the Kimono Girls are.

The other HGSS plot additions (the Sinjoh Ruins and Ilex Forest events) are perfectly compatible with Crystal. In fact, the GS Ball would serve to explain how Celebi arrived in Ilex Forest, which the HGSS event does not do.

 

[NiiKo]

Also about Steven claiming to be champion in HGSS: Maybe he got his title back from Wallace. The games never clearly state how much time there was between Emerald and HGSS.

I consider RSE and FRLG happening around the same time. Whereas DPP and HGSS happen 3 years after Gen III. It makes the most sense since RSE and LGFR have "direct" trading.

 

[Kahlil]

I consider them canon. I usually prefer their storyline over the paired games of their generation...

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I think they're their own canon, and future games pick and choose what they use. Like how it seems to be that the Emerald series of events is the canon, but with the RS champion.

 

[Morcombe]

Emerald and platinum would be the canon games for me.

as ruby/sapphire deals with 1 third of the trio while emerald deals with the entire trio and same with DPPt

so naturally the game that deals with all members of teh trio and combines both stories should be considered canon, at least in geneartion III and IV
There's nothing really different about FR or LG so both can be considered canon.

HG and SS is where the johto part becomes complicated as there is no current version that deals with both storylines of the version mascots.

Canon
Kanto - FR/LG
Johto - Watever one you prefer
Hoenn - Emerald
Sinnoh - Platinum
Isshu - it's future third version.

 

[Glitchipedia]

In my opinion, the most recent incarnation always overrides the previous ones. This means the third version is the canon version. In cases where there is no third version, I think of the primary version (i.e. FireRed, HeartGold) as the canon version.

 

[Leonardo10]

To be honest, I still see Blue and Crystal as the canon versions of the games, FR/LG and HGSS are all not similar to each other. I think they are just remakes and no more, unless they make remakes of Blue and Crystal then those would be the canon games.

So in my opinion

Gen 1: Blue. FR/LG are just pumped up versions of R and G.
Gen 2: Crystal. HGSS are just pumped up versions of G and S
Gen 3: Emerald
Gen 4: Platinum
Gen 5: Grey or whatever its called

 

[Rellik]

The third games are:

Blue.
Crystal.
Emerald.
Platinum.

Blue isn't really considered the Third Version of Gen I. Technically speaking, yes, it was the third version of the game released in Japan, however it did not have the same kind of expanded content as other Third Versions. All it really did was touch up the graphics and audio a bit and fix some glitches.

On the other hand, Yellow Version, which was the third game released pretty much everywhere else in the world outside of Japan, had rather significant changes in the game's storyline, which is a traditional hallmark of the Third Version as it's seen today.

On point, yes, I do feel that the Third Version is canon. There seems to be too much evidence not to think so.

 

[Owain]

^actually Blue IS considered the third version, hence why Yellow is referreed as a ''special Edition''

 

[Rellik]

^actually Blue IS considered the third version, hence why Yellow is referreed as a ''special Edition''

No. Other than the fact that Blue was the third game released in Japan, Blue had none of what makes a Third Version what it is. Outside of Japan, Yellow was the Third Version, and it was what set the precedent for what we'd come to expect from Third Versions in future generations.

 

[The Outrage]

On point, yes, I do feel that the Third Version is canon. There seems to be too much evidence not to think so.

That and Black and White explicitly reference Platinum's plot.

 

[Rellik]

That and Black and White explicitly reference Platinum's plot.

There's that, yes, which is probably the most definitive piece of evidence to put a Third Version as canon. But there are things in the other games as well. For example, Emerald was able to perfectly combine the two opposing storylines of Ruby and Sapphire. If it wasn't for that game, then either Team Magma or Team Aqua would have to be considered non-canon. HeartGold and SoulSilver both included certain elements from Crystal that weren't in the original Gold and Silver versions. Red's team in G/S/C/HG/SS only makes sense if we acknowledge the fact that he's using his team from Pokemon Yellow.

 

[paperfairy]

I didn't even know there was room for discussion on this one!

I was simply under the impression that:

FRLG/Y occur at the same time as Emerald
- Proof is seen through the ability to trade without the time capsule, or events that cross both regions. Yellow is semi-canon in that Red's Championship team is clearly derived from Pokémon he received from others in Yellow (Lapras/Espeon both fit this bill), but that's the only element that seems to serve as canon evidence.

HGSS/C occur at the same time as Platinum.
- Reasons aforementioned, particularly by Silktree.

 

[Green Zubat]

On the subject of whether or not [Japanese] Blue or Yellow is the "true" third version I think Blue is really the special edition one (despite what the advertising might say), since JB was really just a slight debugged, suped up japanese RG game, which is really what the non-japanese Red & Blue versions were too (and you don't hear people calling those the fourth installment of Gen I, do you). Yellow was the one that had all the hallmarks of a proper third version and should be seen as such.

I actually hold the view that the third version is more canon than the preceding one but on the same level of canon as any remakes, with different protagonists acting as the hero/ine for each one. For instance, below are the following games I consider most canon and their corresponding hero/ines:

Yellow = Red
Crystal = Crys
Emerald = May
FrLg = Leaf
Platinum = Dawn
HGSS = Ethan/Lyra
BW = Blair/Rhitlea

I consider the remakes to take place only a few months after the originals.

The other HGSS plot additions (the Sinjoh Ruins and Ilex Forest events) are perfectly compatible with Crystal. In fact, the GS Ball would serve to explain how Celebi arrived in Ilex Forest, which the HGSS event does not do.

How so? When the GS ball is placed in the shrine in gen II it starts shaking and celebi drops on you from the sky, not out of the ball. It doesn't seem likely to me that the GS ball did contain celebi at all, just that celebi intervened to stop you opening it, so from this outlook we still don't know how celebi came to the forest (then again, it does seem to like forests, so its probably just one of those things).

 

[Fennel]

In my opinion, the most recent incarnation always overrides the previous ones. This means the third version is the canon version. In cases where there is no third version, I think of the primary version (i.e. FireRed, HeartGold) as the canon version.

Yeah, agreed with this.