Do you think that there is too much Kanto nostalgia lately?

[Kisu]

You're completely misrepresenting my argument. I'm not saying that they should pander to other regions; rather, I'm saying that they shouldn't give preferiential treatment to any one generation (unless said generation is the focus of the game).



Question, how could children love anything out of nostalgia? For crying out loud, they weren't even alive when Gen I was popular, or even Gen II-III for that matter!

I don't think you read my post I never said children have nostalgia,you might wanna read a post before you respond to it.

I said they make their games for children,and the make their money off children"AND ADULTS who love pokemon out of nostalgia

 

[PaulTheProtist]

Also, ADMIN HAT ON, Leetic, it's usually a pretty safe bet that if you feel the need to put "No offense but..." in a post, what you're about to say is an insult and should be left out.

We can't give others criticism?

I don't think you read my post I never said children have nostalgia,you might wanna read a post before you respond to it.

I said they make their games for children,and the make their money off children"AND ADULTS who love pokemon out of nostalgia

Your wording could've been much more clear. It looks like "who love Pokémon out of nostalgia" is modifying both "children" and "adults" due to the sentence structure.

 

[Fig]

We can't give others criticism?

Is this thread titled "Criticize another user"?

Or, for that matter, "Ignore an admin's note"?

There's a time and place for both of these. This thread? Not it.

But is a <10% increase really large enough?

When the previous game was a 10+% decrease, yes.

At the end of the day, you not accepting that Kanto help sell game...is your problem. You suffer for it (because you keep being disappointed that the game is not what you think it should be). I don't (except to the extent I have to deal with your complaints). So...I'm not going to waste hours on comparative economic studies to prove it (especially as I suspect you would then demand a new layer of evidence).

I think rational people can see what the evidence that has already been laid out suggests rather clearly. It may not be conclusive, but it certainly suggests that certain hypothesis may be valid. That hypothesis is also plain common sense, and I think rational people can see that, too.

 

[Lyrebird]

Simply put I think people miss something important. No one in the bigger world cares about Gen III onwards. Pokemon Go was popular because of Gen I and people still play Pokemon Stadium and talk about the game and the mini games. Obviously here we give a shit about other generations because we are major Pokemon fans but the bigger market aren't those type of people and they most likely will never be.

Do you think my neighbour will care about the lack of 'New' Pokemon in the newer games? Hell no. The guys I dated? They wouldn't give a shit about Roselia, Honchkrow, Tepig, or even the legendaries. It's like this. Let's use the example of Saved by the Bell. It had seasons after with new casts and stuff but does anyone cares about them? No. No, nope and hell no.

What sells more? Dick Grayson or Batman? Batman does. Who sells more? Hulk or Nighthawk? Hulk.

We aren't the majority and never will be. To state that it is bad business to use your biggest assets makes absolutely no sense at all and it is not even business 101 as several users claim to know how businesses work. I don't know how GF makes their decisions but I know that it is common sense to use your biggest assets and if you don't enjoy it than that's life.

You're completely misrepresenting my argument. I'm not saying that they should pander to other regions; rather, I'm saying that they shouldn't give preferiential treatment to any one generation (unless said generation is the focus of the game).

You made your argument and I didn't misinterpret it at all. If you can't make your argument clear and concise then what do you expect? The problem is that people need to realize that all generations aren't equal and never will be. This isn't a perfect world where the whole world are hardcore Pokemon fans that love every single generation the same. It doesn't work like that. The real world shows that Generation I is a seller, the biggest seller, the brand basically speaking and that's how it is.

 

[Kisu]

Simply put I think people miss something important. No one in the bigger world cares about Gen III onwards. Pokemon Go was popular because of Gen I and people still play Pokemon Stadium and talk about the game and the mini games. Obviously here we give a shit about other generations because we are major Pokemon fans but the bigger market aren't those type of people and they most likely will never be.

Do you think my neighbour will care about the lack of 'New' Pokemon in the newer games? Hell no. The guys I dated? They wouldn't give a shit about Roselia, Honchkrow, Tepig, or even the legendaries. It's like this. Let's use the example of Saved by the Bell. It had seasons after with new casts and stuff but does anyone cares about them? No. No, nope and hell no.

What sells more? Dick Grayson or Batman? Batman does. Who sells more? Hulk or Nighthawk? Hulk.

We aren't the majority and never will be. To state that it is bad business to use your biggest assets makes absolutely no sense at all and it is not even business 101 as several users claim to know how businesses work. I don't know how GF makes their decisions but I know that it is common sense to use your biggest assets and if you don't enjoy it than that's life.



You made your argument and I didn't misinterpret it at all. If you can't make your argument clear and concise then what do you expect? The problem is that people need to realize that all generations aren't equal and never will be. This isn't a perfect world where the whole world are hardcore Pokemon fans that love every single generation the same. It doesn't work like that. The real world shows that Generation I is a seller, the biggest seller, the brand basically speaking and that's how it is.

Woah....I know we're all getting heated but there's no reason to take shots at dick Grayson.

I agree with you tho on the rest,even my wife's small Nieces and nephews know nearly every Kanto pokemon,but try telling them how cool swampert or Arceus is and they look at you like your stupid.

 

[Morningstar]

What sells more? Dick Grayson or Batman? Batman does. Who sells more? Hulk or Nighthawk? Hulk.

I just want to point out that the Batman/Dick Grayson thing is a poor example. Not only is he the first Robin, I'd argue that the character is iconic in his own right as Robin or Nightwing. Batman vs Jason Todd or Damien Wayne might had been a better analogy.

 

[Kisu]

I just want to point out that the Batman/Dick Grayson thing is a poor example. Not only is he the first Robin, I'd argue that the character is iconic in his own right as Robin or Nightwing. Batman vs Jason Todd or Damien Wayne might had been a better analogy.

Plus Grayson was Batman for a couple years there too.
I get the point she was trying to make tho...

 

[Lyrebird]

I just want to point out that the Batman/Dick Grayson thing is a poor example. Not only is he the first Robin, I'd argue that the character is iconic in his own right as Robin or Nightwing. Batman vs Jason Todd or Damien Wayne might had been a better analogy.

The analogy is fine if you're not nitpicking over their history of the character which isn't the point

Nightwing will always sell worse than Batman. It's just what happens. The point isn't about Dick Grayson's history. The point being is that while they are similar characters in terms of their environment (personalities withstanding) who have had solos that have been going along for a while, Dick Grayson will always sell less than Batman. It will always happen unless Batman is Dick Grayson or Batman is replaced by someone else.

That's the point.

 

[Fig]

...this is not the Batman vs Dick Grayson thread, *either*

 

[Bolt Strike]

Simply put I think people miss something important. No one in the bigger world cares about Gen III onwards. Pokemon Go was popular because of Gen I and people still play Pokemon Stadium and talk about the game and the mini games. Obviously here we give a shit about other generations because we are major Pokemon fans but the bigger market aren't those type of people and they most likely will never be.

Again, there's other factors to consider here. Larger markets are also gradually losing interest in Nintendo's hardware and migrating to Xbox/Playstation, PC, and mobile because of issues like lower specs compared to the competition and not enough multimedia apps, more Kanto isn't going to be enough to draw in the larger world when there are much bigger issues behind the decrease in sales.

Additionally, it's worth noting that RBY and GSC sold well when Pokemon was still a fad, and a lot of those people are likely a dead audience. They tried the game, lost interest in it when the next big thing came out, and aren't coming back. The audience that remained from 3rd gen on are the ones that are actually interested in the game and that's pretty much what the series is stuck with short of putting the main series on mobile (which comes with its own host of problems).

Do you think my neighbour will care about the lack of 'New' Pokemon in the newer games? Hell no. The guys I dated? They wouldn't give a shit about Roselia, Honchkrow, Tepig, or even the legendaries.

There's a lot of things your neighbor or the guy you dated probably wouldn't care about when it comes to Pokemon. If they're even interested in Pokemon, it's probably not even going to matter what Pokemon are in, they'll buy it because it's Pokemon. The older Pokemon would only seek to draw back the players who played when Pokemon was a fad, which weren't really interested in the first place. Either way, this isn't the audience you need to base these kinds of decisions around. The hardcore fans like us are the only ones that are going to care about these decisions and base our purchases around these things.

It's like this. Let's use the example of Saved by the Bell. It had seasons after with new casts and stuff but does anyone cares about them? No. No, nope and hell no.

What sells more? Dick Grayson or Batman? Batman does. Who sells more? Hulk or Nighthawk? Hulk.

Bad examples, because in those instances one character replaces the other. Pokemon doesn't work like that, it's a matter of mixing the different casts together to appeal to fans of both.

We aren't the majority and never will be. To state that it is bad business to use your biggest assets makes absolutely no sense at all and it is not even business 101 as several users claim to know how businesses work. I don't know how GF makes their decisions but I know that it is common sense to use your biggest assets and if you don't enjoy it than that's life.

I'm not saying don't use your biggest assets. I'm saying balance them with other assets to maximize your audience. Game Freak's not being smart because they're only focusing on the biggest audiences, and that's not going to maximize your profits.

 

[Fig]

Unfortunately for that theory, there is very little audience to be maximized by including Gen III or V.

 

[OfTheVast]

I being a old player dont really mind it too much, i loved how they copied the exact nugget bridge almost, in the grand timeline its only been roughly 10 years since the original games and i wouldnt mind a older more sophisitcated return to kanto. giovanni would be amazing to have as a evil leader once more. but im more looking forward to the gen 4 remakes.

 

[Lyrebird]

Why would you balance your assets when you could use your big guns? Using your big guns will maximise your audience. Major hardcore Pokemon fans are going to buy games regardless? I mean come on. 90% of the forum would buy the game regardless. Balance makes no sense at all, I don't even know how you came to conclusion. It makes no sense.

It's like saying. "Oh hey let's not use Messi and Ronaldo because we need to balance it out. Oh hey let's use Moritz Hartmann to balance those, so we can attract people from Ingolstadt and hard core Bundesliga fans. That will maximise our profits!!!"

It just makes no sense at all. It's like using Toadette instead of Mario because you want to give balance. It is not a good motion at all. You need to use your big guns and always big guns all the time. Everything else below is a bonus but the best sellers are best sellers for a reason.

Bad examples, because in those instances one character replaces the other. Pokemon doesn't work like that,

You mean Starly and Pidove aren't replacing Pidgey? I thought Jellicent was replacing the Tentacruels, I thought Woobat was a replacement for Zubat or Bagon, Gible and co for Dratini. Sealeo for Dewgong, Timburr and Roggenrola for Machop and Geodude. Minccino for Clefairy, Bidoof, Zigzagoon, Patrat for Rattata.

Shocker.

Also my example is fine because Robin/Nightwing was never a replacement character for Batman. They both co-exist. Same deal with Hulk and Nighthawk which are completely different characters.

Additionally, it's worth noting that RBY and GSC sold well when Pokemon was still a fad, and a lot of those people are likely a dead audience. They tried the game, lost interest in it when the next big thing came out, and aren't coming back. The audience that remained from 3rd gen on are the ones that are actually interested in the game and that's pretty much what the series is stuck with short of putting the main series on mobile (which comes with its own host of problems).

You mean all the audience for Pokemon Go were just dead people? Because a lot of people who loved Pokemon in the RBY/GSC era are the ones that played Pokemon Go. So many people I know that aren't Pokemon fans are playing or have Pokemon Go. So that dead audience I suppose are the most popular audience. It kind of funny that you're saying they should target the hardcore Pokemon fans which have been decreasing with practically every generation as Evil Figment pointed out using sales. So why would you try to not create a bigger audience or reach out to older people? WHy would you try to target a diminishing audience.

There's a lot of things your neighbor or the guy you dated probably wouldn't care about when it comes to Pokemon. If they're even interested in Pokemon, it's probably not even going to matter what Pokemon are in, they'll buy it because it's Pokemon. The older Pokemon would only seek to draw back the players who played when Pokemon was a fad, which weren't really interested in the first place. Either way, this isn't the audience you need to base these kinds of decisions around. The hardcore fans like us are the only ones that are going to care about these decisions and base our purchases around these things.

Oh wait? You want to try and target the small, very hardcore Pokemon base that is always decreasing instead of trying to maximize a potential audience? I remember when you kept on saying Business 101 but here's the thing you should know that you want to get the most sales as possible. A business' goal is to maximize its profits not to appease their customers (a small base) which could cost them a lot of potential sales.

You know why the Wii U failed? It wasn't due to hardware. It was the fact that there was a lack of third party which people want, and also a lack of marketing. Instead of using their big guns in advertising and marketing, Nintendo relied on their hardcore fans and it failed. Not many people give a shit about specs, people care about games, ads and marketing. Only people who care about specs will talk about. The general public doesn't give a shit like they don't give a shit about other Pokemon generations or random 4th, 5th, 3rd, 7th, and so on Pokemon.

Bolt, I feel like you're stuck in a bubble where you think that there is a major audience of Pokemon that love and care about every single generation. Where you think that the best $$$ audience is the hardcore Pokemon fan that will buy anything regardless of what's in the game or the internet bubble with the sites you post on or read I feel like maybe you need get yourself out of that bubble because the amount of hardcore Pokemon there aren't as big as you think. They can't rely on them.

 

[Bolt Strike]

@Lyrebird The problem with the mobile market is that while there's a lot of them, many of them don't want to spend money on games. Only 3.5% of mobile gamers actually make in app purchases, the majority of them just play it for free. So those huge audiences aren't really driving profits, the hardcore gamers are driving profits more.

Also, I'm not saying don't use the big guns, that's never been my argument. I'm saying don't rely on them as much as they are. As much as the big guns can help you sell a game, they can only do so much with that. For them to maximize their audience means they need to do new things to draw in new audiences, and yes, appeal to smaller audiences. Looking at it only in terms of the biggest audiences isn't maximization, they need to be more flexible than that.

 

[Almonds]

Once nostalgia is there all the time... it kinda stops being nostalgia. Like, even though everyone remembers Ash from their childhood, I don't think there would be a lot of people feeling nostalgia by looking at a picture of Ash when he's constantly appearing on TV.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Is this thread titled "Criticize another user"

This is a thread requesting opinions, and opinions conflict. This results in criticism. People are criticising each other's veiws at this minute. So, technically not a single thread is titled "Criticise another user", so no one should criticise another user? So, why discuss?

You mean all the audience for Pokemon Go were just dead people? Because a lot of people who loved Pokemon in the RBY/GSC era are the ones that played Pokemon Go.

Many people (from my experience) who played Pokemon go didn't give a shit about RBY. They didn't even know it existed. They just played to fall in with the masses. In my school, there were many people who wanted to be taught that which Pokemon are called what.

 

[Fig]

For reference, this is the whole note, of which you quoted only the first sentence.

Is this thread titled "Criticize another user"?

Or, for that matter, "Ignore an admin's note"?

There's a time and place for both of these. This thread? Not it.

Please notice how you're blatantly violating the second and third sentences.

Honestly, at this point, between the flaming and the people unable to listen to a simple mod request, and the fact that all of us - myself included - are arguing in circle, this thread and discussion have run their course.