Does the Best Wishes trio truely have the best chemistry?

[pokemon fan 132]

Personally i like BW cast ending as my second favorite group, after original trio. Perhaps Ash doesnt reciprocate back to Iris teasing and maybe its not so much justified like it was case with Misty. But in tv show not everything has to be justified, with some things being done solely to bring humor and good dynamic between characters. Whatever the case i still tend to enjoy in her sarcastic remarks and teasing nature, and her annoyance toward Cilan obsession over food or various hobbies is more funny than dull imo.

Ash works really good with BW cast being filled with life. Yes he can be childish and painfully naive but it only adds to his appeal in cute and fun way, and Iris hyperactove and wild nature compliments his character well.Same ges for Cilan which adds extra flavour to Unova group glung everyone together being voice of reason between them.

Really perhaps its just me, but Ash, Cilan and iris group is far more entertaining than DP cast was with no one feeling left out bringing much needed doze of fresh air into anime.

My favourite group has to be the AG group. Firstly, there was no miserable and unpleasant character like Misty or Iris around to bring the mood down, which is instantly a huge plus. All of the characters felt like friends and had fun interactions with each other: after many years of watching Ash as the rookie trainer, it was fantastic to finally see him become such a great trainer, and seeing him teach the beginning trainer May and the book-smart-but-inexperienced Max about the world of Pokemon cemented this. Brock was starting to seem a bit left out by this point, and I can't remember anything between him and May, but his partnership with fellow brain-box Max was cute and gave the exposition during battles more spice. Max could also be very critical of Ash and May when they messed up, but it usually felt justified, and even when it didn't, I could forgive him for being a brat because he was indeed very young. Sure, there were sad times, there were times when they argued, but you knew they would stick together through thick and thin, no matter what stood in their way. It's embarrassing that BW can't achieve the same with three characters what AG could with four.

Depends for who. Personally i dont think Misty brought mood down at all. She added conflict, comedy and life to main group being nice counter balance to Ash immaturity and Brock eccentric personality. Bickering with Ash was usually justified , being fun to watch their small rivalry but she also showed to be very caring and compassionate as well. She had strong friendship with Brock which came out to expression more so than it was case with May and Dawn imo having many memorable moments .Like talks about romance giving him advices, showing great deal of understand for each other due to coning from gym leaders families to even go far as dancing together.
And more often than not she was voice of reason there contributing to fun dynamic.

Also i believe Ash stopped being rookie in Johto being far more experuienced as trainer compared to Kanto. In Hoenn his maturity came more to expression when he took mentor role to May, but start of his growth happened before AG.

 

[Thingamajig]

Just about every sidekick has played well off Ash to some degree, but I think the whole group chemistry is best when the two (or three) that aren't Ash interact well with each other. Cilan and Iris work well because they are such polar opposites - she's grounded and cynical, he's neither. Yeah, it doesn't make much sense for Iris to be traveling around with the other two, but she makes it a more dynamic group by being there and constantly riding both of them about everything they do. I could see Iris and Cilan being friends without Ash there.

I couldn't see that with Brock and Dawn. They just happened to be traveling with the same person at the same time - their relationship was basically.

Brock: *Running commentary on whatever Ash is doing*
Dawn: *Reaction to Brock's commentary*

The entire time.

I'd have to agree with the majority of posts here and say that the AG group had the best chemistry - and I think the foursome really helped that. The fact is with a group of four you have 6 interpersonal relationships - and that sort of complexity can make the group dynamics of what are, let's be honest, not the deepest characters on TV, a little more interesting. No, May and Brock weren't the most interesting pairing (apart from having a couple of common interests that were brought up a few times), but you still had...

Ash and Brock, the old friends
Ash and May, mentor-student early on
Ash and Max, role model
May and Max, brother and sister
Max and Brock, role model of a different kind

So that's 5 different kinds of dynamics in the one group - which I think made for great chemistry.

 

[GreatLiver]

I really don't think any of the groups have had bad chemistry, I think it's just some people dislike certain characters and therefore deem entire group chemistry as bad. I still prefer the AG group the most just because I liked those characters the most, but really group chemistry between series haven't been too different. It's just peoples' preferences.

I do agree that a lot of people seem to get hung up on Iris because of the whole "you're such a kid thing." That's pretty much the only complaint I ever see people having about her. I guess if I watched the dub ever I would notice it and it would bother me, but I honestly don't really care. I think this group's got pretty solid chemistry, and I like all three of the characters.

 

[Yankees4life]

kinda equal but not better than the chemistry displayed in Kanto trio (ABM)

 

[Cybersai]

I could see Iris and Cilan traveling together as a duo after they depart from Ash. That's how you know the BW trio has good chemistry, because you could "imagine" Iris and Cilan traveling on their own together.

I don't think Iris/Cilan will stick together after they stop traveling with Ash, but it is plausible.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I could see Iris and Cilan traveling together as a duo after they depart from Ash. That's how you know the BW trio has good chemistry, because you could "imagine" Iris and Cilan traveling on their own together.

I don't think Iris/Cilan will stick together after they stop traveling with Ash, but it is plausible.

I can't imagine Iris and Cilan traveling together. They don't seem like good friends, or that close for that matter given how often she finds Cilan's energetic attitude annoying, and being with each other hasn't really benefited either one of their goals. If they had more positive interactions that gave the impression that they're friends and/or they actually helped each other in reaching their respective goals, then maybe I could see that, but right now, I really don't. I'm not really sure what Cilan will be doing after the series is over, but I can still picture Iris being a Gym apprentice to Drayden, whether or not she actually would deserve it by that point is another issue though.

 

[Shinneth]

Agreeing with @Hidden Mew on this. Iris and Cilan don't come off as close friends any more than Ash and Iris. Not only on a regular basis does Iris find Cilan "annoying", but I've never seen her honestly take an interest in Cilan's pursuits, so I especially can't see Iris passing up an imminent apprenticeship with Drayden to travel with him. I also disagree, to an extent, that anyone who dislikes the BW trio mechanics are simply blinded by their dislike of Iris as a character. Why? Because I also dislike Misty a great deal. And while the original OS trio is not my favorite group, I had a much easier time seeing Misty as being genuine friends with Ash and Brock. This was Misty, who not only dished out plenty of insults during her tenure, but also smacked Ash and Brock around on occasion. Despite all that, the group was still written as if they truly enjoyed each other's company, and one good thing Johto did for Misty was, towards the end, make it was obvious that she had come to greatly value her friendships with Ash and Brock and wasn't following them around because of her bike anymore. It helped that Ash was responsive towards Misty's chiding, something that BW Ash doesn't even dignify Iris with whenever she calls him a kid most of the time.

It's not solely a matter of preference, or seeing only what we want to see. We've had multiple groups to watch the dynamics of before the BW trio came to be, so by now there are standards set by those previous groups that can be used to compare with the dynamics of the current group. The Ash/Cilan dynamic works for me because the two have an obvious bond, where both have a "scratch my back/I scratch yours" function, as well as obvious, solidified roles in the group. Iris' role isn't nearly as well-defined, serves just as little purpose toward Ash and Cilan's journeys as they do to hers, and in addition to all that, she seems remarkably distant because she's rarely displayed in a medium between a deadpan snarker who insults her companions far too often and for no reason (only to get ignored) and background fodder who occasionally cheerleads in the most generic way possible (this week's episodes notwithstanding). There are times where Iris does come off as a true friend, such as the Nimbasa City arc, but they're few and far in-between. In the recent dub episodes I even felt that Iris and Cilan's conversations during Ash's gym battles come off as more cookie-cutter and bland than I remember any others being.

It's a matter of perception in the end, but while I feel the BW trio is some sort of bizarre attempt to recreate the original Kanto trio, it in no way comes close to the genuine feel of the group dynamics between Ash, Brock, and Misty. It's not just because I strongly dislike Iris as a character; no matter how much I detested Misty, I could never deny that she had a strong friendship with Ash and Brock. With Iris, while I wouldn't outright say that she isn't friends with Ash and Cilan (if only because she show itself would say otherwise), she doesn't feel like a friend. Maybe Season 2 will change that somehow, if they retain what they've had in the latest gym battle, but for the vast majority of the show I really haven't been feeling how perfect this trio is supposed to be, at all. One third of it is doing just fine, but the other two thirds are lacking terribly in many, many ways. Not all friendship circles are sunshine and rainbows (and the AG group that I feel is the best had plenty of banter to go around on all sides), but this one feels too one-sided to be genuine.

I reeeeeally don't think blind hatred is preventing me from seeing this perfection. Overabundance of hype is very easy to see, though.

 

[Piplup]

I honestly think people are way overexaggerating things
NONE of the groups in Pokémon ever had this oh so amazing "chemistry"... like, seriously... it didn't happen, people are just saying it did happen with the groups they liked the most (and yes, I know this can be said about me too) while the truth is that each of the groups had their fair amount of friendship/interaction moments and their good/bad points
I still think, despite what people here like to say, that the DP group was the best and felt the most family-like of all groups (and I also include the whole group's Pokémon as part of the "DP group" because the twerps and their Poké all together really felt like one big family to me, something that I couldn't feel about any series except for the DP series)
After the DP series, the second best would probably be a tie of AG and the original series - they both were good, though not as good as the DP group was (to me, at least)
The BW group is the worst one so far and while I'm recently starting to like the BW series a little more, and while it seems Iris gets friendlier with Ash (and I like it, though I have to say it's kind of random, as was Iris' sudden improvement in that first Don George tournament and pretty much everything related to her character) it's still not enough to save this group for me (hopefully Dawn will at least make this group better for the time she'll be here, previews alone already showed us some nice Iris/Dawn interactions, which proves how right I was back when I said Dawn should've stayed as a permament girl star, or that at least there should SOME girly girl star on the cast, which could have nice interactions with the more tomboyish/"wild" Iris)

 

[ShadowStriatonTriad]

Best Wishes Trio clearly has the best Chemistry out of most of the Generations because they each have unique tastes which make up for what each other is missing. They're also the best looking out of all the groups. Though, I do think Iris is childish. They should put someone more like Misty in.

 

[Cybersai]

Best Wishes Trio clearly has the best Chemistry out of most of the Generations because they each have unique tastes which make up for what each other is missing. They're also the best looking out of all the groups. Though, I do think Iris is childish. They should put someone more like Misty in.

Iris already is like Misty.

 

[ShadowStriatonTriad]

Best Wishes Trio clearly has the best Chemistry out of most of the Generations because they each have unique tastes which make up for what each other is missing. They're also the best looking out of all the groups. Though, I do think Iris is childish. They should put someone more like Misty in.

Iris already is like Misty.

Pshhh, not by a long shot! x.x Bleh, maybe if she was redesigned and a bit less childish. Though I will admit I like Iris wayyyyy more than Dawn. x.x

 

[Cybersai]

Best Wishes Trio clearly has the best Chemistry out of most of the Generations because they each have unique tastes which make up for what each other is missing. They're also the best looking out of all the groups. Though, I do think Iris is childish. They should put someone more like Misty in.

Iris already is like Misty.

Pshhh, not by a long shot! x.x Bleh, maybe if she was redesigned and a bit less childish. Though I will admit I like Iris wayyyyy more than Dawn. x.x

Why does a character need to be like Misty? There is more than one personality for a female charater. Making Iris into a total Misty clone would be a mistake, at least she has aspects to make her an individual rather than a copy.

 

[ShadowStriatonTriad]

Best Wishes Trio clearly has the best Chemistry out of most of the Generations because they each have unique tastes which make up for what each other is missing. They're also the best looking out of all the groups. Though, I do think Iris is childish. They should put someone more like Misty in.

Iris already is like Misty.

Pshhh, not by a long shot! x.x Bleh, maybe if she was redesigned and a bit less childish. Though I will admit I like Iris wayyyyy more than Dawn. x.x

Why does a character need to be like Misty? There is more than one personality for a female charater. Making Iris into a total Misty clone would be a mistake, at least she has aspects to make her an individual rather than a copy.

I disagree. Your statement is unconvincing. If you want to speak statistics, Iris doesn't really have a firm fanbase as it is (though neither of the females do since after May left.) I'm not saying they should be "clones" but they shouldn't be shallow, either.

 

[Cybersai]

What does having a fanbase have to do with anything? I can't think of any other TV show I've watched where two female characters had the same exact personality. Apparently in the Pokemon fandom people think all characters must act the same?

I think in Japan Dawn is more popular than Iris hence her getting a huge comeback. But even so it makes no difference.

 

[Iteru]

Please return to the topic. This isn't a thread to debate the girls' individual personalities and it isn't being related in any way to the original topic.

 

[97SaturnSL1]

the part of the chemestry that is missing up to my specs is that there is no character of the three that gets his/her ear tugged on or poison jabbed

 

[Hellion]

To me, it's kinda middle of the road as far as chemistry goes. I think the best groups as far as chemistry (not individual characters) were the original trio in Kanto and the Advance Generations group, while the worst group was the original trio in Johto. The BW and DP groups kinda rank above the OI trio and the Johto trio for similar reasons. In both cases, there's a character that lets the group down. I totally agree with CommanderPigg's analysis that friendships come in different way and that a snarky character can be really close to others and bounce really well within a group, same for a mostly mature occasionally womanizer guy, but that's just it, they can really bounce off well off each other, but there needs to be bouncing going on, and in both cases, one of the member is letting the trio down, Iris and Takeshi. There are very few BW episodes where Iris genuinely feels like she's friends with Dent and Satoshi or that there's a dynamic because she says something that sounds like both are a huge pain in her life instead of sounding like cheeky teasing, and then... it's not picked up, nothing happens, except in very few episodes. In both cases also, the most memorable chemistry were when other characters joined the group. Satoshi/Hikari/Jun or Satoshi/Dent/Bel felt like much more cohesive and dynamic groups than the main group in my opinion. I also agree with Pigg that in both cases, DP and BW, that's when the characters were individually stronger and well defined. Kasumi and Takeshi in Kanto don't really exist outside of Satoshi while Hikari, Dent and Iris can function on their own.

So to me, both DP and BW trio present the same flaws, but the general feel of the series, story-driven in DP and comedic in BW, makes them seem more drastically different than they are.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Speaking of Ash, Cilan and Iris group admittedly they didn't gave out impression of having particularly strong bond together in start of Unova region, but as time went on you could tell they started to grow closer to each other starting to felt like genuine group of friends which are traveling together and pursuing their own dreams. I noticed Iris started to be much more comfortable with Ash and Cilan company starting to open herself and share her own motivations and ambitions with new companions(starting with Excadrill episode).And reduced amount of cynical jabs starting to root more for Ash and respect his skills as trainer was only further confirmation to growth of friendship. Cilan admiring for Ash unorthodox strategy and his flamboyant nature is adding extra flavor to main cast imo, and while its usually one sided im personally enjoying in Iris teasing and sarcastic remarks directed toward Ash and Cilan occasionally igniting confrontation.

However i cant really say Cilan and Iris are having many noteworthy moments. Clash between science and Iris "sixth sense" was fun and good for start, but it sadly stayed mostly on that with writers not going forward with it as opposite to Misty and Brock which functioned great without Ash as well having strong bond.

BW may have its flaws, but i find them much more memorable than DP trio was, which had worst chemistry so far imo. They lacked synergy and barely had any memorable moments as group together. Yes Ash and Dawn had good character interaction which was based on mutual support helping each other out with writers building up on their friendship, but at same time Brock was sidelined and left out too much barely having any dynamic with Dawn aside from few examples. Two characters don't make a group.

Im also kinda puzzled, why is there made division between Kanto and Johto trio, when they had same group which functioned well through both regions? In Johto they still felt like genuine group of friends which had adventurous feeling to them. They felt like group which knew themselves very well having their principles,certain spark and better dynamic than most other groups with there prevailing more sarcasm and mutual encouragement and support as opposite to constant fights which reflected growth of their friendship. "Gotta Catch Ya Later"was best way to show how close friendship they had.

Kasumi and Takeshi in Kanto don't really exist outside of Satoshi while Hikari, Dent and Iris can function on their own.

Eh perhaps less than it was case with Dawn, but there were several instances which were focused on Misty and Brock own dreams and storylines bringing entertainment value by themselves, without having to rely on Ash.

 

[Madame Pika]

It wasn't until Best Wishes started that I ever even thought about the chemistry and that was only because everyone else was going on about it. I probably would like the group chemistry in this saga if it wasn't so pushed as the main comedy accept this saga. As it is I find it too dwelt upon and still lacking in substance. Part of this I will admit is due to not liking Iris that much. Of course, there probably isn't any more focus on it (in show) than any other saga but it just feels that way due to a lack of TRrio and other things to divert the attention of the viewer. Therefore, I tend to think that DP probably has a more interesting chemistry since at least it didn't pretend to be worthy of loads of attention and they'd go off and do there own thing making the show overall more entertaining. That said, when I actually think about it, I think that Advanced had the best chemistry, thanks in part due to them having an interesting mix of characters and group focus.

 

[Cybersai]

Even though it will be short-lived, I am really looking forward to the 4-person group of Ash, Dawn, Iris and Cilan.

In just those short clips, Dawn already looks to have better chemistry with Iris and Cilan than she ever did with Brock. I daresay it makes her character seem more enjoyable now that she has Iris to bounce off of as total opposites, and Cilan sharing her "fabulous" sparky personality. Just goes to show you how dull the DP trio was, but Dawn herself can have good chemistry with other characters.