SwSh Dynamax: Thoughts, Feelings, or Concerns

[Matleo]

That assumes that they won't ditch it again.

they only made a gen pause from mega and Z-moves.
Gen 4 remakes will scream for new Megas. Thats sure.

None.

new future niche potential.

A substitute won't last very long, and you still have to cut your HP for that. Protect does not work against Max Moves. Changing type isn't an option available to all Pokemon, and it's not going to hold everything off. Status conditions are the only thing here that really helps, and even then, it's hardly the perfect counter. Paralysis is chance, Poison won't take out all their HP, and while a Burn could help with a physical attacker, a special attacker won't be put off at all. The remaining option is putting them to sleep or freezing them, which isn't easy.

what about Spite, Grudge? reducing the pp of their moves? also could work.
Isn't easy but could be done with sleeping and freeze, now makes those statuses want to happen.
There is now potential in using a Fake out/Fling and Stoping Tantrum combo against them...
and Brine against Dynamax pokemon.

Pokemon with abilities like Shedinja, Eiscue, Mimikyu, Ditto come now still in handy.

Oh, what a wonderful solution, take out the Dynamaxed Pokemon after it's gotten the three turns of Dynamax. (Plus, if Perish Body was created to be Dynamax's counter, that means Game Freak was expecting everyone to have a Cursola to counter Dynamax- that's not balanced at all)

Maybe now gen 4 pokemon like Dusknoir , Spiritomb could get Perish Body?

A Sturdy user can handle 2 turns against them.
Interesting how Damp users react to Max moves? Damp didn't changed?

Still think better is to create and change , tyo buff things then to ditch or nerf the too much...

Abilities like Aftermath, Innards out come now pretty good.

Explode and Self-Destruct? still a thing?

It's not. Bolt Beak and Fishious Rend's boosts don't come from switching out, they come from moving before the opponent.

If they would make in future new powerfull G-mons with new G-max moves with increased or decreased priority, what do you think how psychic terrain, queenly majesty, dazzling, stall could come in handy then?
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Dynamax so I could be totally wrong. Maybe removing the secondary effects would be more effective at balancing the gimmick?

You know, there is a bit of irony regarding Dynamax: Game Freak had originally planned to have it last two turns rather than three. I wonder what would have happened then: would the mechanism have been more balanced, or two turns would have still been enough to destroy everything on sight?

It would have been interesting if the mechanic worked differently from Singles to Doubles, with it lasting two turns in Singles and three turns in Doubles, as in the latter case it's more balanced and a longer time limit would have been fine.

And now imagine that Megas come back and meet Dmax and Gmax as a counterpart mechanic, and that people will be able to chose between those two... the effects better stay. The 3 turns too.

___________________
Do we know if soundproof and bulletproof still block the same moves that become Max moves Afterwards? or not?

Hmmm you can still Curse and Perish song them... switch your own pokemon out for better strategies dont complain...

Dynamax now gives us a hard weapon against Megas, legendaries, pseudolegendaries.
(if they seperate them; Z-moves with their amount would be a little troublesome but still could happen)

Hmm they created now possibilities for totally new niches, for a freezing move that works like will-o-wisp,
for abilities to cause oponents to re-charge a turn after attacking(instead of flinching) or even ones causing the oponents getting recoil from every move after attacking.
Even a ability to curse without damage.

Now with Dynamax they could create damage dealing moves that could disable moves like cursed body does...

I dont look at Dynamax as a problem but as a solution to create more new stuff and pokemon.
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They can always make in future that Dynamax works this way only in Galar
(and maybe in Sinho thanks to Arceus this way, with the spots to do it)

but in other regions maybe the wishing star that you have in the Y-ring would also be needed as a Dynamax crystal as a item for the pokemon to do it? You know scientist research and technology to control it better. Causing the pokemon to move last the first turn after the transformation?

 

[multiingbe]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlzWHV4RePM


I don't think i have posted this yet! It is one of my more favorite aspects of Dynamax, that it feels to carry on this particular overall idea!
Switch to me sometimes feels like the decades-later true successor to the SNES/SuperFami! Some aspects of Sword and Shield to me make it feel like there could be an incredible, i am not sure it would have to be an SNES ROM but maybe a ROM hack of Ruby/Sapphire that would intentionally shift the graphics to look like SNES and be a loose retelling/recreating of the Sword and Shield world!!

 

[prog rocker]

i am not sure it would have to be an SNES ROM but maybe a ROM hack of Ruby/Sapphire that would intentionally shift the graphics to look like SNES and be a loose retelling/recreating of the Sword and Shield world!!

Well, GBA already look like SNES graphics so I feel you could make something like that if you know enough about programming. I mean, Chinese hackers have for some reason ported games like Final Fantasy VII and Pokémon Diamond to the Famicom, so I think something like this could be possible.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

they only made a gen pause from mega and Z-moves.

And where did they confirm this?

Gen 4 remakes will scream for new Megas. Thats sure.

The originals went fine without them, we've had one remake without any new Megas- why would remakes scream for new Megas?

what about Spite, Grudge? reducing the pp of their moves? also could work.

No, it wouldn't. Spite will only reduce 4 PP from one move after it's been used. It would take three turns to deplete one Max Move, since they all get 10PP each. (Or, being generous, two turns if the Pokemon kept using that move) Grudge will deplete one max move, and the Dynamax Pokemon will have three more to use. These are not good strategies at all.

Isn't easy but could be done with sleeping and freeze, now makes those statuses want to happen.

I don't understand what you're saying here- are you saying that this would make players want to inflict sleep and freezing, as if this wasn't already a positive?

There is now potential in using a Fake out/Fling and Stoping Tantrum combo against them...

Dynamax Pokemon don't flinch. You've posted several times about this before, how did you forget?

and Brine against Dynamax pokemon.

Brine? The move that grows stronger when the foe's HP is halved? Against Dynamax, which greatly increases HP? That would make Brine harder to use.

Pokemon with abilities like Shedinja, Eiscue, Mimikyu, Ditto come now still in handy.

Mimikyu's lasts for one turn. Eiscue will also only last for one turn, unless it has time to set up hail and the foe doesn't have any Fire, Rock, or Water moves (which seems pretty unlikely to me), because all will alter the weather and get rid of the hail. Shedinja is still hit by five types, and they're not exactly uncommon.

Maybe now gen 4 pokemon like Dusknoir , Spiritomb could get Perish Body?

This does not solve the problem! The problem is that Perish Body takes three turns, and Dynamax Pokemon will get their full use before then!

A Sturdy user can handle 2 turns against them.

If the Sturdy user gets to move first. Otherwise, it'll just get taken out on that second turn.

Interesting how Damp users react to Max moves? Damp didn't changed?

Why on earth would Damp react to Max moves? Max Moves don't self-destruct.

Still think better is to create and change , tyo buff things then to ditch or nerf the too much...

Smogon can't buff anything, they can only create new rules.

Abilities like Aftermath, Innards out come now pretty good.

Aftermath will take out one fourth of the DMax Pokemon's HP. If you had three Pokemon each with Aftermath, and the DMax Pokemon took out all of them? You're down half your party, and the DMax Pokemon is still in after DMax wears off. Innards Out is only going to, at most, 314 damage, if you had a Pyumuku with maximum possible HP that got one-shotted. And considering DMax brings the Pokemon's HP to 150%, that's not likely to be enough to take it out. There's a reason why most strategies don't involve you relying on your Pokemon fainting.

If they would make in future new powerfull G-mons with new G-max moves with increased or decreased priority, what do you think how psychic terrain, queenly majesty, dazzling, stall could come in handy then?

Decreased priority moves are not affected by any of these, and the rest could all be worked around by just using all the regular moves.

Do we know if soundproof and bulletproof still block the same moves that become Max moves Afterwards? or not?

They don't.

Hmmm you can still Curse and Perish song them... switch your own pokemon out for better strategies dont complain...

Again! Perish Song only lasts three turns! It will not take out a Dynamax Pokemon before it gets the full use! It also won't affect Ghost-types! And Curse will take three turns to take out a Pokemon! And even if these were perfect solutions, you're suggesting that, instead of dialing back the new mechanic, that every party include these moves to counter it!

Dynamax now gives us a hard weapon against Megas, legendaries, pseudolegendaries.

None of which were so unbalanced that Smogon called to ban them.

Hmm they created now possibilities for totally new niches, for a freezing move that works like will-o-wisp,
for abilities to cause oponents to re-charge a turn after attacking(instead of flinching) or even ones causing the oponents getting recoil from every move after attacking.
Even a ability to curse without damage.

What on earth does that have to do with Dynamaxing?

I dont look at Dynamax as a problem but as a solution to create more new stuff and pokemon.

But Smogon isn't balancing things for possible creations in the future, they're balancing things for the game now.

 

[dig]

I think two turns if dynamax would have been fine. It’d basically be a turn of set up, then a one probably guaranteed knock out.

At three turns, it’s way to easy to take out two would be counters, and continue a streak.

I’d take three turns if their was no HP boost, that’s its most absurdly broken element. It provides ridiculous bulk on a Pokemon, before it sweeps, by the time it reverts its too strong to deal with most of the time.

 

[Matleo]

No, it wouldn't. Spite will only reduce 4 PP from one move after it's been used. It would take three turns to deplete one Max Move, since they all get 10PP each. (Or, being generous, two turns if the Pokemon kept using that move) Grudge will deplete one max move, and the Dynamax Pokemon will have three more to use. These are not good strategies at all.

with a Pressure user that does this? Hmmm Dusclops, Corviknight have the stats to pull it off somewhat...

DMax

you know what it means to use combined strategies?
and that a pure power one solution doesnt exist here?
if we had only megas against them... you would see...
What strategies did people use against Megas that had higher stats?
what against Legendaries?

Hmmm Grimmsnarl if using a , lets say maybe give a pokemon that knows Weigh based move and Stomping Tantrum against a D-max pokemon will always make Stomping Tantrum get 150 base power. Only flying pokemon are immune to this one...

Smogon

Smogon only creates own rules for those and by those players that overuse one pokemon and strategy...
What would be if all legendaries, dynamax, megas would be alllowed how then the team creation would change?
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Hmmm U-turn, Volt-Switch strategies combined with priority moves still are able to grant something....
You can hope to reduce a Dynamax pokemon speed to use this and that...

Entry hazards work the same, a Dynamax pokemon can't remove a entry hazard?
A Dynamax pokemon isn't immune to status reductions and continious damage?
The best way is putting hazards, using binding moves and fast switching to force your oponent to use Dynamax faster... Hmmm Semiinvulnerable and Protecting moves are rather a thing for 50% of the parties pokemon to avoid sweepers and take down walls.

Deflecting Max moves effects with moves and abilities?
Strong Counter and Mirror Coat users with right stats?

Hp Draning based moves against Dynamax pokemon is a thing now actually?
To take them longer on?

what are the best hp draning move users with the best hp, defense and sp. defense stats in Sword and Shield?

I think two turns if dynamax would have been fine. It’d basically be a turn of set up, then a one probably guaranteed knock out.

At three turns, it’s way to easy to take out two would be counters, and continue a streak.

I’d take three turns if their was no HP boost, that’s its most absurdly broken element. It provides ridiculous bulk on a Pokemon, before it sweeps, by the time it reverts its too strong to deal with most of the time.

I think when megas come back people will be happy to have Dynamax as a other option then Z-moves.

Some pokemon like Wishiwashi gain thanks to Dmax but are also good against it.
Hmmm a strategie to give your oponent the Truant ability with Durant will be a option against D-max.

3 turns are enough to see which players can think fast , surprise and create more diverse strategies then go for pure power strike options during game play.

Hmm how good is a Dynamax pokemon against Z-moves?
and against Megas in those 3 turns actually?
and against some legendaries, pseudolegendaries or UBs?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

with a Pressure user that does this? Hmmm Dusclops, Corviknight have the stats to pull it off somewhat...

So do you suggest every team carries a Pressure user with Spite? What about Max Phantasms and Max Flares? You’re literally doing what you’re blaming Smogon for.

Hmmm U-turn, Volt-Switch strategies combined with priority moves still are able to grant something....
You can hope to reduce a Dynamax pokemon speed to use this and that...

You use speed lowering move and immediately get OHKOed by a max move. And all speed lowering you did is now useless if the opponent used Max airstream.

by those players that overuse one pokemon and strategy...

You’re doing the same by asking everyone to use Mimikyu, Eiscue and Dusclops with Pressure.

What would be if all legendaries, dynamax, megas would be alllowed how then the team creation would change?

Smogon isn’t restricting you. They’ve got a National Dex format. I don’t know why are you ranting about that when they’ve actually made a format that fulfils your wishes. This is literally possible.

And the SwSh OU format doesn’t support that because the Sword and Shield games themselves do not have Megas. That isn’t Smogon's fault. They don’t make the games. They’re fans just like you and me.

Go and blame GameFreak for that. If you’re opposing the removal of Megas, your best bet is complaining against Dexit. Blame GameFreak, not Smogon.

 

[Matleo]

So do you suggest every team carries a Pressure user with Spite? What about Max Phantasms and Max Flares? You’re literally doing what you’re blaming Smogon for.

hmmm max Flare? Flash fire .
Max Phantasm? a normal pokemon?

You use speed lowering move and immediately get OHKOed by a max move. And all speed lowering you did is now useless if the opponent used Max airstream.

you can predict a flying type move? what about Gravity here? if only smack down could block flying type moves for 2 turns not only take away immunity...

You can always try Dive, Fly and Dig + Protect as a strategy for 3 turns.
if one has sturdy also then a double win for you. Onix worth mentioning now... Skarmory isnt in the games and some others too... not now yet...

You’re doing the same by asking everyone to use Mimikyu, Eiscue and Dusclops with Pressure.

3 pokemon strategies here mate... could be nicely combined. Eiscue with Dive and Hail can work against most physical oriented Dynamax mons actually. Mimykyu and Dusclops with Phantom force too actually.

Dynamaxed pokemon need to use Max Shield and can't use Semi-invulnerable moves...

bad about Entertaiment +"Truant" Durant on a Dynamaxed pokemon that this doesnt work like it should... actually. But at least on megas it will...

what a pitty that Mummy or Insomania(worry seed; always hoped it would cause damage or lower stats or something) don't cause bad after effects when given to the oponents...

Hmmm Electrify +Volt absorb?

Hmmm actually good that Dynamax exists because some times with Protect, toxic and walls were pesky and many sweepers too...

You can try to use Dhelmise , a pokemon that with Dynamax is great but without it can also counter it nice if the oponet isnt using Dark or ghost moves.
________________________________________

Here are the mechanics for checking up.

Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research

Kris asked: If an Aegislash doesn't have Stance Change, it doesn't switch into Blade Forme when attacking. (currently handled correctly, I believe) On the topic of Primal weather, can you override Primal weather with Max moves (ie Max Geyser in Delta Stream?) - Max Geyser fails in the...

www.smogon.com

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

hmmm max Flare? Flash fire .
Max Phantasm? a normal pokemon?

Do you even read your own posts? You suggested using Corviknight and Dusknoir with pressure and spite as counters, and they cannot have flash fire or the normal type. I’m talking about this comment:

with a Pressure user that does this? Hmmm Dusclops, Corviknight have the stats to pull it off somewhat...

you can predict a flying type move? what about Gravity here? if only smack down could block flying type moves for 2 turns not only take away immunity...

You can always try Dive, Fly and Dig + Protect as a strategy for 3 turns.
if one has sturdy also then a double win for you. Onix worth mentioning now... Skarmory isnt in the games and some others too... not now yet...

Again, are you reading your own posts? People are posting how your scenarios don’t work so you just continue on with things that aren’t even possible to change the topic.

You suggested using speed lowering moves, and now say not to use them but switch out? I’m talking about this comment:

Hmmm U-turn, Volt-Switch strategies combined with priority moves still are able to grant something....
You can hope to reduce a Dynamax pokemon speed to use this and that...

And are you seriously mentioning Dig, Protect and dive? Anything that requires you to hide for 3 turns IS broken.

All these oddly specific strategies can be quickly broken if the Max Pokemon is a specific type. I can easily OHKO all your setups with Dynamax:
Eiscue, Corviknight, Dhemise: special Max-Flare
Mimikyu, Duskclops: Two Max Phantasms


Such a mechanic is broken, and I really can’t take these arguments seriously until you actually address the arguments provided by Smogon.

If you’re so annoyed by the ban your best bet is to show your arguments to the Smogon forums.

 

[Phosphene]

All these oddly specific strategies can be quickly broken if the Max Pokemon is a specific type.

I have very little competitive experience, most of which with doubles, but if something only has a few highly specific counters, isn’t that a pretty good indicator that it’s broken or at the very least unhealthy for the meta?

 

[Matleo]

I have very little competitive experience, most of which with doubles, but if something only has a few highly specific counters, isn’t that a pretty good indicator that it’s broken or at the very least unhealthy for the meta?

Specific type? That would mean all the meta is broken. Gosh....

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I have very little competitive experience, most of which with doubles, but if something only has a few highly specific counters, isn’t that a pretty good indicator that it’s broken or at the very least unhealthy for the meta?

Yes, and even those specific counters are not applicable to all Dynamax Pokémon. You can just Dynamax any Pokémon to take out that counter for a particular battle.

Smogon actually has a well written argument on how Ditto soaring in usage indicates an unhealthy meta, and surprise, Ditto's currently off the charts in popularity.

Specific type? That would mean all the meta is broken. Gosh....

Yes, it would. It was broken that’s why Dynamax was banned to create a non-broken Meta. Just go to the National Dex format if you want to use everything including Megas, Z-Moves and Dynamax. Smogon isn’t forcing you to not use Dynamax.

 

[prog rocker]

Smogon actually has a well written argument on how Ditto soaring in usage indicates an unhealthy meta, and surprise, Ditto's currently off the charts in popularity.

I can't believe the day came when Ditto would be useful for something else aside from breeding.

 

[Matleo]

Yes, and even those specific counters are not applicable to all Dynamax Pokémon. You can just Dynamax any Pokémon to take out that counter for a particular battle.

Smogon actually has a well written argument on how Ditto soaring in usage indicates an unhealthy meta, and surprise, Ditto's currently off the charts in popularity.

Yes, it would. It was broken that’s why Dynamax was banned to create a non-broken Meta. Just go to the National Dex format if you want to use everything including Megas, Z-Moves and Dynamax. Smogon isn’t forcing you to not use Dynamax.

I think in 6vs6 and double batles its not problematic.

If the cut moves and megas come back Dmax will be more balanced.

Gigantamax moves give the same energy boost to regular moves like Max moves do? Wanted to know how much power does Blast Burn gain when Max Flare and when Wild Fire.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I think in 6vs6 and double batles its not problematic.

It's problematic enough to be banned.
You can go on about Megas and Z-Moves all you want but thanks to GameFreak they’re not a part of the meta.

 

[BlueWaves]

BTW, Smogon is also suspecting Dynamax in their National Dex format. My big problem with Dynamax is that it’s a 50-50, and most of my games always comes down who manages their Dynamax better. I think it’s more manageable in Doubles ( Might be safe to say that all the balance testing was doubles. ) But I still don’t like the 50-50s. The HP increase makes it that Quad Weak Tyranitar can take a fighting attack, and suddenly retaliate with Weakness Policy boosted attack. Speaking of which, so many Pokémon are running Weakness Policy now- Tyranitar, Togekiss, Rotom, Conkeldurr-heck, even Dragapault, a frail attacker has been running Weakness Policy frequently thanks to Dynamax.

 

[dig]

If the cut moves and megas come back Dmax will be more balanced.

Waiting on GF re-adding megas isn't a viable battle strategy.

 

[Matleo]

Waiting on GF re-adding megas isn't a viable battle strategy.

but would be a wise step to do.

By the way when Golisopod Dynamaxes, when does Extreem Exit activate? by the amount of halved while Dynamaxed or it's original hp?
A strategy when using first impression and recalling it via its ability comes here in mind.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

but would be a wise step to do.

Waiting in battle until the next game comes out is the opposite of wise.

 

[Matthew Clerkin]

Waiting in battle until the next game comes out is the opposite of wise.

I mean, the 20 minute time limit with wifi battles would prevent you from waiting that long