Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation III

[siburke939]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

See I think this is the real reason people hated on Gen3. And this is sooo much tolerable than complaining about some of the lax character designs of Gen 3, because Gen 4 was a lot worse. I do think Game Freak Learned about this, and will be adding something that allows you to trade up from now on.

However, I also think they will be using a lot of other things like the Pokewalker to make games a little different and sell more. I highly doubt Gen V will have anything like the Pokewalker and it will primarily try to use to 3DS to get its fame (PS-Not looking forward to the 3DS :\ )

complaining about the story & characters is silly imo - every game has had good/bad/ugly pokemon & the story is irrelevant after whizzing through it & getting to the "meat" of the game (training for battling)

haters always gonna hate dude!

 

[Sombra29]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha using the nostalgia goggles argument against me ha ha ha ha ha ha hah ahahahaha ah ah aha ha ha hah aha hh ah a hah ah ah h a hah ah ah ha h ah a hah ah a h ha ha ha ha h ha ha hah a ha ha ha hh ah ah ah hah ah a ha ha h ha.

No.

I LOVED some of the Hoenn pokemon. Marshtomp, Ludicolo, Flygon, and Altaria come to mind. I just found that a lot of the designs looked so outlandish and ridiculous even for me. We're all entitled to opinions, aren't we?

D/P's Pokemon were a lot more ridiculous than R/S' but D/P put a lot of past Pokemon in the wild, which absorbed the blow of the new ones. And I liked Sinnoh way better than Hoenn, though I say that because I love winter compared to summer.


To be honest, I found a lot of Gen 1 Pokemon to be boring and generic.

Ok,ok.I take back the nostalgia comment,don't take it to heart I wasn't intending to offend you.

But if you are going to state an opinion as "x,y and i had disgusting designs"then you should give reasons as to why they look like that to you.Not just go and say "DP Pokemon were a lot more ridiculous than R/S" but why?give examples.Reasons.I already explained in my post how the examples you brought are silly, as those Pokemon are based on (cool)recognizable things from real life.So the "they are disgusting" argument doesn't work.

Plus,the debate of "pokemon designs are becoming worse" would be interesting if people took the time to explain (with various examples explained)WHY.

Also,this part:

To be honest I hate Kanto the most. Each region had something memorable to me, except for Kanto which was just a cesspool of boring.
Gold was the first game I got and I bought Blue to try to see why everyone loved R/B so much...I HATED playing it.

You hated them because you were used to the new,superior versions.Its logical,not because they are "a cesspool of boring".Ask someone whose first game were R/B(the 151-pokemon only fans?me?) and they WONT tell you a fallacy like that.Sure,G/S is superior to R/B but that doesn't make the first games bad,as they did what they were supposed to do,establish the series of games by being Accessible fun replayable RPGs.

 

[Umbrella]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Gen III is often criticized for the following reasons:
• They took out a bunch of Pokemon and didn't allow you to trade with the Color/Metal Generation games. That really pissed me off because of the lack of Clefable, Dragonite, etc.
• The new Pokemon looked like ass. EG Shiftry, Cacturne, Whiscash, Sableye, etc. They didn't even look like Pokemon. Just ass.
• The villains were lame (Team Rocket is fly as hell) and annoying little fuckers.
• The plot was god awful.
• Rayquaza is a douchebag.
• They removed several exciting features from GSC for no apparent reason. Assholes.
• It was heavily marketed and highly anticipated but failed to live up to expectations.

 

[Faye Scarlet]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Hah, if Hoenn had followed the same route Johto had, it would be as weak a region as Johto. ._. Johto had potential to be a real amazing and stand-alone region, but they were FAR too afraid to take a risk, so they tacked on that pathetic excuse of "neo-Kanto" on, and whored out the Kanto Pokemon, choking the region to death.

Being older and smarter now, I can see how weak a region Johto is. Now compare it to Hoenn. That region didn't kiss the ass of Kanto. It was new and original. We didn't see Rattata and Pidgey in a, you know, non-Kanto region. They fixed a whole lot of mess from Gen I-II.

And as for the features? Like Day/Night? In case you failed to notice, it sorta failed in GSC, too. A few people I know didn't like going to real-time night to go find these Pokemon. With the DS games, you can adjust the time, but in GSC, you had to wait. They also noticed the battery issue. They had to figure out a way to fix it, which is probably why it's not in RSE, or FRLG.

It's kinda silly that people will complain about a million Pidgey/Rattata/Tentacool, and when they released the game that fixed that? "sob, i want my kanto pokemon baaaack". The unpleasable fanbase at it's finest, ladies and gentlemen! They'll say things like "they just suck" or "they're doing it wrong" or "it failed", but they're blind to what good games these are. Improved EVERYTHING, as did DPPt.

There's no point arguing about this anymore. Blind nostalgia and opinions will be blind nostalgia and opinions. ._.

 

[Azure Butterfly]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Hey, don't diss Whiscash. It's not bad once you get used to it. The others... yeah. Barboach, for one, SHOULD NOT EXIST. D: The starters were pretty bad for being starters - I spent about ten minutes on Ruby looking through the starters and, it being my first Pokemon, desperately wishing there were more options that I was missing somewhere. The final evos of the third gen Pokemon aren't great either. Blaziken is okay but clashes a bit with the other 'mons, Sceptile is okay but every official source draws it like crap (Sugimori art looks stoned, all others are fat), and Swampert is just...

However, I do like Gen III a lot. The graphics look really good - DP just didn't agree with me, and the first two didn't have full color. Yes, I know I'm a color-snob. Hoenn itself was very nicely designed - it was really diverse, with lots of interesting places. If people stop whining about the long sea routes, then the rest of it is good. It has a truckload of places to explore, plenty of sidequests, and a decent selection of Pokemon.

Yes, some of the Pokemon were terrible - Sableye and Mawile were iffy; Shiftry, Cacturne, Medicham, Nosepass, Solrock, and Lunatone were fairly ugly. But really, Magneton, Muk, Onix, and others are just as bad. Hoenn also introduced Flygon, Gardevoir, Altaria, Zangoose, Aggron, and Grovyle. Hoenn is about 20% bad Pokes, 30% really good ones, and 50% okay ones.

The reason why most people don't like Gen III? Sucky legends. Even suckier plot. At ten, I thought the people writing the scenerio were idiots during the Groudon part. In fact, it was so terribly pulled off, I didn't even care about the poor saps suffering in the drought. I just went around as usual until I got bored months later and OHKO'd Groudon. Well, not so much bored as "OH GOD THE MUSIC IS HORRID MAKE IT STOP." Lack of anything after the Elite Four. Hard to get old Pokes. Lack of Day/Night. Finally, Berry Glitch. Without a way to fix it, the game SUCKS. I fought the Elite Four at least 40 times over just to get EXP. -.-

 

[Lugion]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

In every fandom, no matter how small or how large, there are always people on opposite sides of the proverbial pond. There's the nostalgia-wankers who maintain that everything new sucks and should be like the originals. Then, at the same time, there's the people who despise the originals for being primitive or whatever. Both are equally ridiculous.

While it's true that Gen III had wasted potential, it's also true that Gen II was trying to expand on a primitive system that did need revamping. Ruby and Sapphire's main problem was that they tried to hard to be a "reboot" rather than a sequel or continuation. The result was a fairly solid RPG experience that was very good for newcomers, but left older players feeling a bit frustrated or bewildered. I myself began with Ruby version, and loved it. FireRed was my next game, and I loved it as well. When I finally got my hands on a Crystal version, it left me feeling as though it were incomplete, honestly. Not to say it didn't endear itself to me.

And being angry that you couldn't bring in your level 100 Mewtwo from your very first Red game to utterly pwn the Elite Four is just butthurt and contrary to the spirit of the games, that is, catching and raising.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

In every fandom, no matter how small or how large, there are always people on opposite sides of the proverbial pond. There's the nostalgia-wankers who maintain that everything new sucks and should be like the originals. Then, at the same time, there's the people who despise the originals for being primitive or whatever. Both are equally ridiculous.

While it's true that Gen III had wasted potential, it's also true that Gen II was trying to expand on a primitive system that did need revamping. Ruby and Sapphire's main problem was that they tried to hard to be a "reboot" rather than a sequel or continuation. The result was a fairly solid RPG experience that was very good for newcomers, but left older players feeling a bit frustrated or bewildered. I myself began with Ruby version, and loved it. FireRed was my next game, and I loved it as well. When I finally got my hands on a Crystal version, it left me feeling as though it were incomplete, honestly. Not to say it didn't endear itself to me.

And being angry that you couldn't bring in your level 100 Mewtwo from your very first Red game to utterly pwn the Elite Four is just butthurt and contrary to the spirit of the games, that is, catching and raising.

Great post but don't bother. Nobdoy is gonna listen. D:

 

[TTEchidna]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

They also noticed the battery issue. They had to figure out a way to fix it, which is probably why it's not in RSE, or FRLG.

It IS in RSE. They have internal batteries which FRLG don't. The battery runs the clock alone, GBA games save to flash memory. GBC games like GSC had to have the battery keep the save and the clock alive, hence their running out so fast. Hell, my Yellow still works.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

I skipped the 3rd generation of pokemon so I'm not one to judge based on gameplay. But by the looks of things there has to be something to this. Alot of the Gen 3 pokemon don't look great except the dragons, metagross, the weather trio, and zangoose.

But the point I'm trying to make is... I think there has to be a reason there isn't a "Why is generation 3 always touted as having the best pokemon games in any generation?" thread. and "Why does everybody always say generation 3 was the best?" questions. What do ya'll think

 

[JAK]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

1. Most people who don't like Gen III played Gen I and II, so the fact that RS disconnected itself from the previous games annoyed them.

2. Likewise, people expected RS to be more like GSC, a sequel where you could go back to other regions.

3. If you were 9/10 when RBY came out, you were 13 when RS came out. Ages 8-12 are psychologically proven to be the happiest years in your life. The teenage years are a downward spiral.

4. Most of the new Pokemon had no relation to the old ones, or tried to replace new ones (Beautifly)

The biggest mistake that Gen III made was that it wasn't RBY Part 3.

 

[siburke939]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

And being angry that you couldn't bring in your level 100 Mewtwo from your very first Red game to utterly pwn the Elite Four is just butthurt and contrary to the spirit of the games, that is, catching and raising.

i have plenty of level 100 legends from R/S/E/FR/LG/D/P/Pl but i still use new teams in both SS & HG - it's not about being "butthurt" at all dude it's about feeling that the hours spent playing R/B/Y/G/S/C were a wasted effort

 

[RudolphMilotic]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

it's not about being "butthurt" at all dude it's about feeling that the hours spent playing R/B/Y/G/S/C were a wasted effort

Why they would be a 'wasted effort'? Would you still have the Pokémon on your cart, right? The issue here is that GSC make people think the Pokémon games would be compatible with each other forever, letting you keep all of your past collection in each subsequent game and having an easy time completing their Pokédexes, defeating the game or for battling with friends, a thought I find very, very flawed and lame. Things such as the Pal Park or the Time Capsule are intended to help the experience of collecting/training in the new games, but not a tool for transfering all of your previous Pokémon to the new games and leave the older games in the dust. I've never had a problem with the restrictions put by the games and I would never whine or be angry if Game Freak decides to cut the compatibility of future games, even if there are 50,000 species by then or despite how much I want my previous teams. When I first bought Sapphire (I skipped the GSC era entirely when they were released; I was busy with other typical teenage stuff back then), I never thought of trading my Yellow main team (Surfing Pikachu, Mewtwo, Zapdos, Charizard, Snorlax and Omastar) to this game, and I learned by myself playing the first twenty minutes that this new generation was dettached from the GB/GBC versions experience, albeit I forgot about all those things when I saw Blaziken, Sceptile, Gardevoir, Salamence, Metagross, Latios, Kyogre, the new introduced Double Battles, new attacks, the beautiful Hoenn region, etc. I purchased Crystal later because I wanted to own at least one game from every generation but I wasn't very hooked or impressed with the game after the cornucopia of excellence Sapphire was; anyway, I finished the main story, beat all the Crystal Battle Tower levels and some other stuff (Stadium 2, breeding, shiny Pokémon, etc.), and even with all of that I felt Crystal was missing something that Sapphire perfectly encompassed. Being a veteran player I'm one of the few people who aren't blinded by nostalgia or just hatred and that prefer Generation III games over the first two series, although perhaps it's partially explained by my absence from the franchise during the GSC era.

By the way, I never found the Time Capsule that useful aside from the fact I could have the RBY exclusive Pokémon such as Zapdos on my Crystal or to include an Amnesia Clefable with Flamethrower in my Stadium (not Stadium 2) team, just for the sake of having fun and make the game go nuts thinking that the Clefable was hacked.

 

[Faye Scarlet]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

1. Most people who don't like Gen III played Gen I and II, so the fact that RS disconnected itself from the previous games annoyed them.

2. Likewise, people expected RS to be more like GSC, a sequel where you could go back to other regions.

3. If you were 9/10 when RBY came out, you were 13 when RS came out. Ages 8-12 are psychologically proven to be the happiest years in your life. The teenage years are a downward spiral.

4. Most of the new Pokemon had no relation to the old ones, or tried to replace new ones (Beautifly)

The biggest mistake that Gen III made was that it wasn't RBY Part 3.

1) hardly a fair and justifiable reason, though.

2) same as 1.

3) not all teens are angsty emos who insist "only my childhood was the best". Indeed, when I turned 15, I was able to admit I liked RS more than Crystal.

4) You mean "counterparts", not replacements. ._. Shocking as it may be to hear this, but there is more than one type of butterfly in the world to base a Pokemon off of.

And if you ask me, that is not a mistake at all. It was the best thing Hoenn could do. If every region depended on Kanto over and over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER again, Hoenn and Shinnoh would be as weak a region as Johto, like I said. We don't NEED a "RBY Part 3".

The direct sequel of RBY to GSC ruined one aspect of my playing experience, and that was turning Red into "Mr.I-cut-off-ties-from-everyone-and-now-train-in-the-mountains-for-all-eternity". Any imagination players had for what Red does after RBY is now all for nothing. My "Red as a shy and quiet momma's boy who stays at home after becoming Champion" is now nothing. I wasn't pleased when I played through and found Red in Crystal version.

After all, the player character is supposed to be YOU. We decide who Red's party is. We decide where he's going to be, what he does, what he likes, and so on. Just that one small thing in GSC ruined a whole lot for me.

 

[Silktree]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

The arguments raised in this thread have long been exhausted; my advice would be to forgive and let go.

The direct sequel of RBY to GSC ruined one aspect of my playing experience, and that was turning Red into "Mr.I-cut-off-ties-from-everyone-and-now-train-in-the-mountains-for-all-eternity". Any imagination players had for what Red does after RBY is now all for nothing.My "Red as a shy and quiet momma's boy who stays at home after becoming Champion" is now nothing.

No offense, but I found this amusing to read, and I'm quite thankful that Game Freak didn't opt for that route.

 

[PkMnTrainer Yellow]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

The arguments raised in this thread have long been exhausted; my advice would be to forgive and let go.


No offense, but I found this amusing to read, and I'm quite thankful that Game Freak didn't opt for that route.

Yes indeed, especially considering that the Red you find in the mountains is directly based off of the pokemon special manga... Meaning no, he is not a blank slate for someone to write on

I mean come on... First the manga was released BETWEEN R/B and G/S, so there's no 'the game came first!' for this one.

1. Same name
2. Same appearance
3. Same pokemon
4. Same relative level

 

[Battaman]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

Yes indeed, especially considering that the Red you find in the mountains is directly based off of the pokemon special manga... Meaning no, he is not a blank slate for someone to write on

I mean come on... First the manga was released BETWEEN R/B and G/S, so there's no 'the game came first!' for this one.

1. Same name
2. Same appearance
3. Same pokemon
4. Same relative level

Pokemon Special Volume 6 was published in Japan November 27, 1999.

Gold and Silver were released on November 21, 1999.

I'm not sure when Mt.Silver first show up in Special, but I don't think it happened before the Gold/Silver arc (that's what you call it right?)

The G/S arc starts whit Volume 8, which was published in Japan August 8, 2001

 

[VeggiePopper]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

And if you ask me, that is not a mistake at all. It was the best thing Hoenn could do. If every region depended on Kanto over and over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER again, Hoenn and Shinnoh would be as weak a region as Johto, like I said. We don't NEED a "RBY Part 3".

Actually, I think that DPPt IS RBY Part 3: the only mention of the Lake of Rage incident was more than enough to link it to GSC's events and thus follow the series continuity (without the need to feature Kanto itself), something that RSE failed to. I don't give a damn about the trading incompatibility (by the time RS came out, my Gold cartridge with my strongest Gen I Pokés had already died), my only complaint with RSE is that storywise, they don't fit in the continuity (even assuming the "it takes place at the sime time FRLG" theory). As I've said ad nauseam, you don't have to bring back the region to give it a secuel.

 

[Faye Scarlet]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

The arguments raised in this thread have long been exhausted; my advice would be to forgive and let go.


No offense, but I found this amusing to read, and I'm quite thankful that Game Freak didn't opt for that route.

Probably best to do. D8; In generation wars, everyone shows their ugly side...

-shrugs- That's fine, I suppose. I like quiet male heroes, as opposed to the generic shonen-type heroes.

Yes indeed, especially considering that the Red you find in the mountains is directly based off of the pokemon special manga... Meaning no, he is not a blank slate for someone to write on

If that is true, it's a wrong thing to do. ._. Not everyone reads or even likes PokeSupe.

Actually, I think that DPPt IS RBY Part 3: the only mention of the Lake of Rage incident was more than enough to link it to GSC's events and thus follow the series continuity (without the need to feature Kanto itself), something that RSE failed to. I don't give a damn about the trading incompatibility (by the time RS came out, my Gold cartridge with my strongest Gen I Pokés had already died), my only complaint with RSE is that storywise, they don't fit in the continuity (even assuming the "it takes place at the sime time FRLG" theory). As I've said ad nauseam, you don't have to bring back the region to give it a secuel.

One news report doesn't necessarily mean they're happening at the same time. Jasmine can't be in Shinnoh and Johto at the same time, can she?

I don't think these games even HAVE an actual timeline a la The Legend of Zelda series. Each game (bar GSC, it's biggest mistake) was it's own region, it's own stand-alone place, with it's own story and going-ons.

 

[Keldora Dragon]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

GSC was an awfully popular game for GF's "biggest mistake." I wish to come up with a an article to address the ridiculous generation wars in this fandom. All generations brought something new to the series. Whether fans like the changes or not depends on opinion not fact.

Perhaps we should all just end this debate.

 

[VeggiePopper]

Re: Generation III: Criticized too often?: Fan's response in defense of Generation II

One news report doesn't necessarily mean they're happening at the same time. Jasmine can't be in Shinnoh and Johto at the same time, can she?

Actually I agree with your initial idea: the news report doesn't mean both storylines happen at the same time at all, and I've never believed that (as you said, Jasmine can't be in both regions at the same time, one story had to happen first). My point is that it links the two stories (something that RSE lacked) and remembers us that they happen in the same continuity. In RSE, there's no mention of any of the events from any other game (hell, it's even the only games without Oak, the franchise's human mascot), they could well happen ten years in the future, 5 years in the past or even in an alternate universe (I'm deliberately exagerating of course, but you get the point); while I did enjoy RSE in both story and gameplay, I felt that it lacked continuity with the series as a whole.

And I said that I felt DP were RGBY part 3 because the news report actually IS THE EVENT that causes the player and rival to head into the lake, where the story starts to unfold, therefore, it's the force behind your adventure (that's why I said the news report established a link between the GSC/HGSS and DP); considering that sequel means "consequence", then DP are indeed sequels to GSC/HGSS (and by extension, to RBGY, hence RGBY part 3); it's such a shame that Platinum removed the bond between them.