Generation VII confirmed!

[Psalmist]

Now I feel like everything is easier. Gym Leaders, Elite 4, unlimited TMs, more status helpers, and lastly more information of EV training and stuff.

While I agree things are easier, I have to ask: You'd rather go back to having to restart your game to get repeat TMs? That's more monotonous than difficult imo.

 

[PinkIceFox]

Yeah, making TMs unlimited was a great boon to the series.

I actually use them now!

 

[Lyrebird]

While I agree things are easier, I have to ask: You'd rather go back to having to restart your game to get repeat TMs? That's more monotonous than difficult imo.

I never restarted the game. If I messed up then that's on me. You press on and deal with it. Plus I sold 90% of them anyway. Extra cash is worth it.

I don't like it unlimited because then you don't think as much and it cuts down a lot of strategy.

 

[PinkIceFox]

I feel the opposite way. Having unlimited tms allows me to change my strategy if I need to. What if I decided to use a different pokemon instead of the one I taught a TM already? I'd feel compelled to use that pokemon since I used that one-of-a-kind TM on it instead of being able to just swap it out with a new pokemon.

Also another reason Gen 1 sucked: You couldn't re-battle anyone but the elite four. DO NOT SPEND POKEDOLLARS ON ANYTHING. DO NOT USE ANY ITEMS. YOU WILL NEED THEM LATER WHEN YOU FACE ELITE FOUR.

 

[Lyrebird]

I feel the opposite way. Having unlimited tms allows me to change my strategy if I need to. What if I decided to use a different pokemon instead of the one I taught a TM already? I'd feel compelled to use that pokemon since I used that one-of-a-kind TM on it instead of being able to just swap it out with a new pokemon.

Then that's your choice. Weigh up the pros and cons and deal with it. I like the challenge. I don't like that unlimited is a cop out for if you make a mistake.

I get that a lot of people dislike Gen I and there are several valid reasons. However I feel that Gen I is the most important generation in the games. It's like without Superman, you wouldn't have superhero comics. So the importance and the magic it did for several people from 1997-1999. It's the most iconic Generation. The games might not have aged well but there is a reason why GF keeps coming back to it.

 

[PurplePopplio]

Oh well. Everyone has different opinions about Gen I. Let's get back to discussing Gen VII.

I hope we see Alolan Muk and Alolan Persian today.

 

[TouyaShiro]

To me, anti-frustration features are a plus in most cases, so Pokemon's evolution over the years - even if it did take steps back in other respects - is why I personally cannot stand going back to play Generation I. Sure, there's a bit of magic about it, but stepping back and looking at the bigger picture, its mechanics are outdated and clunky (not to mention totally bugged) compared to newer instalments of the franchise. I mean, more power to you for liking it and all that, but it's essentially the same reason why I can't really get into playing Super Smash Bros. Melee - aside from the fact that the version I'd have access to without modding my console is the PAL version, its mechanics are not something I enjoy as much as I do with the more modern instalments (though I guess this is a less severe case than it is with Pokemon since I still find Melee to be playable, lol).

This is much of the reason why I move on to newer games for the most part - unless it's something I can return to playing without feeling like it's a horrible, horrible wreck that I have to trudge myself through, I will always look forward to new instalments of old franchises. I don't think I want to go back to a speed-based metagame again, nor bugged typed advantages... The only reason why I would even think of doing so is screwing around with what the games are really known for - its truly glitchy nature as demonstrated in such videos like this and this.
I mean, I may be speaking from the perspective of one who doesn't have nostalgia, but trust me - I played a lot of Stadium growing up. It's frustrating.

But I digress. As RL&L said, this isn't the place to discuss old Generations.
Come to think of it... I forgot a trailer was dropping today!

 

[PinkIceFox]

I'm trying to wait for the trailer before going back to sleep. I'm so excited. I hope we get something new and cool!

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

When will we get the trailer?

 

[ange]

Oh right, a trailer was coming today! Just went back to check on Serebii and it's to be aired at "22:00 JST, which is 00:00 AEDT, 14:00 BST, 15:00 CEST, 09:00 EDT, 06:00 PDT".

So in about 1½ hour?

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

I never restarted the game. If I messed up then that's on me. You press on and deal with it. Plus I sold 90% of them anyway. Extra cash is worth it.

I don't like it unlimited because then you don't think as much and it cuts down a lot of strategy.

There is barely any strategy with limited TMs. GameFreak didn't change TMS to unlimited usage to tone down it's strategic element (which really, there is none), but because they knew so many players chose not to use them whenever possible, either to have a full collection in their bag, or because they wanted to save them just in case. Being limited barely brings any strategy to it, it just makes you more cautious.

Unlimited TMs were a very welcome feature to me.

 

[Life]

There is barely any strategy with limited TMs. GameFreak didn't change TMS to unlimited usage to tone down it's strategic element (which really, there is none), but because they knew so many players chose not to use them whenever possible, either to have a full collection in their bag, or because they wanted to save them just in case. Being limited barely brings any strategy to it, it just makes you more cautious.

Admittedly I think there is a good deal of strategy involved with limited TMs. Do you wait until your Pokémon learn a move through level up, or use the TM because you need to defeat a gym leader? If you have similar Pokémon, which do you give Ice Beam or Earthquake too? You need to plan out your move sets and be prepared to work with bad moves when you are dealing with limited TMs since you can't repeatedly use them.

Deciding to save a TM for later is a part of planning your strategy also. Being cautious employs a feeling in players that makes that act more, well, cautiously because they don't want to make a hasty decision.

Now saying all that I do like that we have unlimited TMs in the last few Gens and are continuing that in SM because I'm lazy, but I can see why people would enjoy the challenge. However, I do think that with the additions in the game with items and abilities and move side-effects there is still a good deal of strategy and cautiousness that was not totally erased when changing limited TMs.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

If they did bring back limited tms they atleast need to be buyable, its not about the in game use of them its competitive if I want my in game dewgong to know ice beam but also want to teach greninja ice beam for online matches I have to wait. But then what if 2 months later I want a different water type with ice beam? SOL you taught it to greninja already. It's very limiting in the competitive stance since you're limited to one pokemon with that tm, you won't be able to get another for a different team member without resetting.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

No thanks, I rather we didn't go back to limited TMs. I like the permanent ones best.

 

[TouyaShiro]

Now saying all that I do like that we have unlimited TMs in the last few Gens and are continuing that in SM because I'm lazy, but I can see why people would enjoy the challenge. However, I do think that with the additions in the game with items and abilities and move side-effects there is still a good deal of strategy and cautiousness that was not totally erased when changing limited TMs.

The change, among other things done over the course of the series, are probably a result of the evolving and growing competitive community - technically, it counts as a form of eSports, and it's very evident that B2W2 and Oras especially were designed with a lot of time-saving features in mind from the outset for those who wanted to get straight into the nitty gritty world of minmaxing for the competitive Global Link scene and VGC competitions. That includes the capability of unlimited TMs. I think the tradeoff in this case is that the majority of the competitive staples (Earthquake, three beams, etc.) are hidden somewhere in the world so you have to be really looking out for it if you don't have a guide to help you, as opposed to just being super expensive to purchase somewhere (or even being locked behind BP as is the case for a couple of them in some games).

In relation to Sun & Moon, I wouldn't be surprised if they went either way - either they take steps back to how it was when XY first came out, or they keep it how it was in Oras from the outset. They're taking their VGC seriously this year with all the Battle Spot rule changes and the introduction of the Competition ruleset for the Battle Spot that matches the VGC rules...

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

Admittedly I think there is a good deal of strategy involved with limited TMs. Do you wait until your Pokémon learn a move through level up, or use the TM because you need to defeat a gym leader? If you have similar Pokémon, which do you give Ice Beam or Earthquake too? You need to plan out your move sets and be prepared to work with bad moves when you are dealing with limited TMs since you can't repeatedly use them.

Deciding to save a TM for later is a part of planning your strategy also. Being cautious employs a feeling in players that makes that act more, well, cautiously because they don't want to make a hasty decision.

Now saying all that I do like that we have unlimited TMs in the last few Gens and are continuing that in SM because I'm lazy, but I can see why people would enjoy the challenge. However, I do think that with the additions in the game with items and abilities and move side-effects there is still a good deal of strategy and cautiousness that was not totally erased when changing limited TMs.

I don't think any of what you said outweighs the fact, that as others have said, that it completely prohibits you from using those TMs again in the future, unless they are the ones you are able to purchase.

Now that competitive battling is becoming more and more popular, it makes even less sense now to revert back to limited TMs. Plus, it can prohibit the use of more Pokémon. People may want to try raising many different Pokémon but choose not to, because they've already used their one TM on another Pokémon, and may not like any of the other moves that the Pokémon they want to train can learn.

In my opinion, there isn't a single advantage of limited TMs (I honestly don't believe there are any advantages AT ALL, in my personal opinion), that can outweigh all the negatives of limited TMs. If Gamefreak ever were to revert back to limited use TMs, which I highly doubt, majority of fans will be most displeased.

 

[Ifni400]

How about we discuss the news release instead?
First of all, I love Silvally's new ability, RKS System. Is it related to Arceus? Seems likely, considering they look similar.
Then you have a mo'o being the pseudo legendary, and having a unique type (just, please, let it learn some moves to counter fairies!)
Two more type specialists (perhaps it will be like the gym challenge after all)
and Parental Bond was nerfed.

 

[TouyaShiro]

How about we discuss the news release instead?

We already have threads for that so I feel like these sorts of oddball conversations still add something in this general thread, even if it eventually has to halt when people don't link it back into Generation VII. At least, that's how I go about it. In any case, there's no harm done to try speaking about more relevant Generation VII news over here, though I've already given a ton of my thoughts in this post.

The only thing I really want to add is that someone pointed this out to me and now I can't unsee it:

Spoiler: Alolan Muk is this but rainbow

I lovingly dub it the "Gay Mighty Poo" as a result of this

 

[Ifni400]

Does Alolan Muk look different because of different chemical pollution?

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

After Alola Muk, I am convinced that gen 1 pokemon are only getting alola forms. Too much favoritism if you ask me.