How much "emotional investment" do you put in the anime?

[Halberd Bravo]

I actually stopped watching the anime years ago, but back when I did, I was very emotionally invested in it. I found myself so attached to the characters, most notably Ash's Pikachu. I loved that little guy so much. ;_;

 

[Queen Cynthia]

This may sound like an odd question, but it would explain alot of irrational behavoir seen on the forums.

As I can't help thinking that your remark was intended to be quite a direct reference to some of my more passionate posts, I somehow feel challenged to describe my point of view in detail, too.
But as I'm also aware that most of you don't feel like reading another long post, I'm going to try to limit myself or rather my post to a minimum.
Here we go:

Pokemon -- what does it mean to me? By now, you should know me well enough that you can easily imagine that for me, Pokemon is not a mere name of a mere series or game among thousands of others.
And NO(!), Pokemon is definitely not a series for children, simply because of the following logical conclusion:
Which serious adult would spend so much time on watching a kid's series or on posting on fanforums where childish topics are discussed as most of us regularly do? Who would even bother creating huge Pokemon websites and encyclopedias about childish unreal stuff? --> (Now, PLEASE don't get me wrong) IF somebody did that, you would have to consider them as mentally retarded jerks who could as well watch Teletubbies instead --> But as we're all reasonable, intelligent adults, the assumption that Pokemon is a kid's series is just wrong!
How I'd love to repeat that whenever I see somebody making such rash claims, but, I guess, this would turn every thread into offtopic...

No, Pokemon is something you can't just describe with a few unfeeling words and it's even more! It may surprise you but Pokemon is also something most people wouldn't probably expect. But I'm going to go into this a bit later.

Basically, ShinyAeon and Piplup in particular have already said exactly what I'm thinking as well:

I LOVE Pokémon and it's something really special to me
It's the world I would love to live in, these are the people I would die to meet and be with in real life, these are the creatures I would do everything to make exist on our stupid world, these are my friends I grow up with, watch their development and how they change with the time, this is what makes me happy, what makes me laugh, what makes me realize every day just how crazy about it I am

In short, Pokémon is my life ^_^

How much emotional investment do I put in the anime? Way too much, no doubt.

On the one hand, I love it - I love watching it, reading it, drawing it and writing it; I love the characters dearly, almost as if they were friends or family of mine; and I think about Pokémon constantly (mostly by dreaming up scenes or plots for stories) in spare moments all day long. It cheers me up, keeps me going, and sometimes it's the brightest part of my day.

Folks, I couldn't have said it better myself and I totally agree with you!
To be honest, I often daydream of living in the Pokemon world and how all that would look like and feel.
I'd be dying for being allowed to live there and I'd even exchange my own life for this way better concept of life without the least hesitation.
Granted this wish came true, I'd feel like in paradise. I'd train with my Pokemon day and night until exhaustion. Still, I can hear Cynthia's great words in "Top Down Training": "I trained endlessly". Yes, that would be my eternal motto and my dearest friends, my Pokemon, and I would train until we'd be the greatest team and until I'd be the greatest Champion Master the world has ever seen and will ever see. We would go down in history and I wouldn't stop until we would have reached this glorious goal. My Pokemon and I, we'd have a relationship far beyond friendship. We would be one unit, perhaps even one person. We would be heroes and experience all kind of heroic adventures. And of course, we would meet all our heroes, namely Ash, Brock, Dawn, Cynthia, Lance and all the others who inspired us to live our dreams and accomplish such great goals. I could keep on talking forever...
To cut a long story short: What a paradise that would be!

I do hope that you'll now understand why I always put the highest emotional investment possible into the Pokemon Anime.
We can neither escape from this physical world nor avoid its reality, but Pokemon enables us to get a foretaste of that new, unique and fantastic world which will await us.

I'm now going to share my innermost feelings with you. I haven't done that on any other forum before because the user just wouldn't have understood it or wouldn't have been "worthy" of such profound thoughts. Here, I've found the community I had been looking for for so long.
Now, here's why Pokemon is so unique, why it is a precious treasure for me:
I'm a committed Catholic Christian and I strongly believe in the triune God. Jesus Christ said that Paradise would await the children of God who would have lived according to the holy word of God. But what exactly does "Paradise" or "Kingdom of God" mean? I'm convinced that it denotes the community with the allmighty, loving God. This again means existing as a spirit in a place where you experience everlasting, indescribable joy and happiness. But as everbody defines joy differently, I also think that there'll be a "personal" paradise for everyone (and that's important now) where you can finally forget the sorrows of this imperfect world and where God rewards you by making all your wildest positive(!) dreams come true. Dreams which we weren't allowed to live here on earth because of the rules of physics or any other regrettable circumstances.
Let me cite from the biblical Book of Revelation:
"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away. He who was seated on the throne said, I am making everything new!(...)" Revelation 21:4-5
Yes, that's my firm hope and belief and I know that this is gonna happen thanks to Jesus Christ, the Lord.
If I'm allowed to enter the Kingdom of God, I'm convinced that all my plans and hopes which I described in detail before, will finally come true. God is going to grant me the right to experience the aforementioned fabulous life of the greatest Pokemon Trainer ever and that'll render me speechless and overjoyed. And I even think heaven will be even more fulfilling than I can ever imagine with my insignificant human brain, because God is definitely going to surpass everything I've ever thought of.

Yes, that were my innermost feelings and that's why I appreciate Pokemon so much, because personally, I consider it as a kind of herald (among some others, above all religion and faith of course!) of the glorious Kingdom of God.

(I'm gonna stick to what I said, no matter what some of you might think now. But I'd be pleased if others shared my opinion ^^)

 

[Lethal Carnivine]

Which serious adult would spend so much time on watching a kid's series or on posting on fanforums where childish topics are discussed as most of us regularly do? Who would even bother creating huge Pokemon websites and encyclopedias about childish unreal stuff? --> (Now, PLEASE don't get me wrong) IF somebody did that, you would have to consider them as mentally retarded jerks who could as well watch Teletubbies instead --> But as we're all reasonable, intelligent adults, the assumption that Pokemon is a kid's series is just wrong!

Believe me, you'd be surprised at the websites and forums adults would make about cartoons. Do you know how many wikis they have on cartoons. And with them, I bet there is a ton of forums with intese content on these shows.

That last part though, wow. It's astounding that someone puts so much investment into Pokemon that they even quote the Bible and talk about paradise for it. And here I thought I loved Pokemon....

 

[Linkpre]

Not much really. I mean, I did like certain parts of the show, but at some point I have to realize they won't return anytime soon. Guess it's time to just grow up and forget this show.

 

[PDL]

That last part though, wow. It's astounding that someone puts so much investment into Pokemon that they even quote the Bible and talk about paradise for it. And here I thought I loved Pokemon....

It's what I ment by "irrational behavoir". Pokémon is fine and all, but it's also important to keep proirities straight.

 

[ShinyAeon]

It's what I ment by "irrational behavoir". Pokémon is fine and all, but it's also important to keep proirities straight.

But calling that "irrational" is just an opinion of yours. C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien found Christian spiritual values in fairy tales, the Norse Sagas, in Medieval ballads, in the Pagan legends of many countries, and Lewis especially found something profound in children's stories. He repeatedly made the point (in his fiction and his essays) that banishing an entire genre of story "to the nursery" was cheating both children and adults - children, by insisting that they were so "unsophisticated" that they were only capable of appreciating "immature" things, and adults, by insisting that any honest pleasure they had as a child or might still get by reading the same stories as an adult was "immature" and a sign of their lack of growth.

I've been reading children's books (and watching childrens' shows as well, come to think of it) all my life, and I plan to continue doing so as long as they touch me emotionally and inspire me. I hope I never grow too "sophisticated" to appreciate them.

Where ash_forever is wrong, I feel, is in thinking that just because Pokemon inspires adults to become fascinated by it, it's not a children's show. I think it IS a children's show (but acknowledge that, like lots of anime, it does contain a bit more sophistication than American shows for kids typically do). I object strongly to the hypothesis, taken for granted by most of us here (and in American and Japanese culture in general) that children's stories have nothing to offer people once they pass a certain age limit.

Most of all I object to the idea that spiritual value is too "adult" to be found in stories aimed at kids. Jesus himself said people should "be as little children." I'm not a Christian myself any more, but I know that there's not hardly a spiritual practice in the world that doesn't contain advice to that same effect--that to truly experience a spiritual reality, we have to put ourselves back in the frame of mind we had as children.

I always interpreted that frame of mind to be one with curiosity, emotional honesty, and (especially, IMHO) a sense of wonder about life and the world. The wisest people I've met have always shown those qualities; and I can't imagine the oldest, most wizened sages on a mountain who still maintained that innocent outlook who, if they were put in front of an episode of Pokemon, wouldn't laugh, cheer, yearn, or cry right along with a six year old who watched alongside them.

 

[AshxDawnfangirl]

I grew up on pokemon. That said, im appalled by how bad the anime has gotten. It's like looking back at what got me into the franchise and thinking i've been duped by a bad show. Seeing as how the quality has been derailed by recycled plots and mundane attempts at story developement. A lot of people say the show is meant for children. With the amount of fanservice, profanity in subs, and well...."fake clevage" i've seen, I can disagree on many of those points. It may seem that way considering the dubs do dumb them down for american audiences (at least...these days), but the show itself is now nothing more than a marketing scheme for the actual nintendo products.

When was exact last time you actually watched the old one was when you were a kid?

Any way I tend to disagree about the new ones being bad because I recently watched the old ones and I can tell its very outdated compare to when I was watching it as a kid years ago. I think its outdated because Ash was basically the only main character while Brock and Misty were side kicks, most of the Pokemon didn't even have personalities, stereotype voicing acting for the other characters and trying to westernize the anime (what was 4kids thinking:bash, and the animation looks outdated compare to now. I find it funny that you say the english dub is dumbed down since I tend to disagree its actually a lot better now then when it was done by 4kids (look above) now that Pokemon USA is dealing with the dub so now I don't have to worry about 4kids trying to westernize the anime. As for the storytelling I'm glad they are finally starting to do it since I thought the plots in the old one were very mundane (it was only about Ash I mean come)and were only targeting little kids which shows how outdated the old ones are especially if the story of characters was very weak. Now about the show being a market scheme you pretty much can say the same thing about any other show on the market or any other products too so sorry pal you can't have it both ways.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

When was exact last time you actually watched the old one was when you were a kid?

Any way I tend to disagree about the new ones being bad because I recently watched the old ones and I can tell its very outdated compare to when I was watching it as a kid years ago. I think its outdated because Ash was basically the only main character while Brock and Misty were side kicks, most of the Pokemon didn't even have personalities, stereotype voicing acting for the other characters and trying to westernize the anime (what was 4kids thinking:bash, and the animation looks outdated compare to now.

As much as this may seem strange to you despite newer seasons being impoved more in terms of animation,groups pokemon being threated better now etc. some people despite this consider older sesons being better in their opinion.Now why did i bolded this part its simple,because some people here just cant respect other opinions.

Like i already mentioned i also enjoyed more in older seasons,because i feel this show was more focused back than on characters than pokemon like it is now.Nevertheless i also enjoyed more in this show because Misty was still in it,and in my opinion this show used to be funnier and more interesting with her around and had better interaction between characters.The fact how this show is now sticking too much with games doesnt help the case either because i find it being more predictable than before,not having many unpredictable and unique plots like it used to have.
That being said i still like this show,ut not as much like i used to,because of some in my opinion bad decisions coming from writers side and the way in which this anime is going now.

As for Misty and Brock being sidekicks i cant really agree with this at least in Mistys case.While she didnt received the same amount of screentime like May or Dawn did and Ash of course,it was still more than any other character who was part of this show so far did while she was still part of this show,and did more than they did.
So in the end while she wasnt maybe true female protagonist at the same time she was something more than sidekick.

 

[Legacy]

I for one love the anime BECAUSE of the evolution it has made since Day One.

I love the fact that Pokemon used to be more poorly animated in its early days. I love that Ash has evolved from a goofy, somewhat stupid character with hilariously cheesy lines who was always hyperactive etc. But now he is more of a mentor to the new characters.

I like how the anime as a whole has changed over the years.

People can complain all they want about how the show is now, or how the show was back then...but I think the changes that have been made have contributed to its long-term success.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

trying to westernize the anime (what was 4kids thinking:bash

Given that you didn't cite any specific examples, I'm going to toss out here that the idea to GLOBALIZE the anime was made by the Japanese producers.

 

[AshxDawnfangirl]

As much as this may seem strange to you despite newer seasons being impoved more in terms of animation,groups pokemon being threated better now etc. some people despite this consider older sesons being better in their opinion.Now why did i bolded this part its simple,because some people here just cant respect other opinions.

Like i already mentioned i also enjoyed more in older seasons,because i feel this show was more focused back than on characters than pokemon like it is now.Nevertheless i also enjoyed more in this show because Misty was still in it,and in my opinion this show used to be funnier and more interesting with her around and had better interaction between characters.The fact how this show is now sticking too much with games doesnt help the case either because i find it being more predictable than before,not having many unpredictable and unique plots like it used to have.
That being said i still like this show,ut not as much like i used to,because of some in my opinion bad decisions coming from writers side and the way in which this anime is going now.

As for Misty and Brock being sidekicks i cant really agree with this at least in Mistys case.While she didnt received the same amount of screentime like May or Dawn did and Ash of course,it was still more than any other character who was part of this show so far did while she was still part of this show,and did more than they did.
So in the end while she wasnt maybe true female protagonist at the same time she was something more than sidekick.

Before I ask any thing but were you implying that I was disrepecting the guy I comment to early because it sounds like you were:eh:.Now on topic the reason some may think the old ones are better then the new ones at times is mostly out of nostalgia since they remember what they watch from their childhood and thats why I don't let that blind me. Keep this in mind I do think the old ones were good still(from season 1 to 5) but I thought they still had flaws in them like the characters not having enough dept.

To be honest with you I watched the older one some many times already and I can tell the character weren't really that focus as some of you think I mean Ash was basically a stupid noob wgo was ignorant if you ask me. Thats what I hated about the old ones and Misty at first acted like b**** to him even though her character would improve through out season 2. I can't really agree either about the show being more funnier then compare to now but there were still funny moments in the old ones like Ash and Misty arguing and no I don't think she was that interested either. I mean try comparing Misty pulling Brock by the ear to lead him away from girl he was flirting with to Croagunk giving him poison jab and drag him away in order to stop him flirting with girls as you can see why I think the new ones are funnier. I'm not trying to insult you but to say the new ones are more predictable is a little ridiculous because i don't recall Dawn challenging a gym leader for a gym badge out of the blue like that being predictable which I wasn't even expecting that.

Another thing I will say is that the only time I thought the the writers made bad decision in the anime was the advance saga I mean to me it was the worst and blandish saga I watched. Lets just say I didn't like the idea they replaced Misty with two new main character 'cough'filler characters'cough called May and Max who were just dull and uninteresting compared to Misty. Then the next thing that I thought was a stupid idea was bringing in a new bad guys that were supposed to be one or two levels badder then Team Rocket called Team Magma and Aqua. Even though I thought it had potential they just executed horribly since they lacked personality compared to Team Rocket and now I can see why they killed them off after Season 7. Now after I watched season 10 all I can say is that I'm actually impressed since I think the anime is starting to progress properly like it use to before the advance saga. With a more dept story being presented compared to the old ones with characters like them focusing on Ash and Dawn on the same level giving a possible Ash/Dawn pairing since its obvious (high touch anyone), giving the Pokemon more personality, and more funnier moments I consider D/P to be better then the old ones.

Well if you got problem with Brock and Misty at time being presented as side kicks I think you should take that up with Satoshi Tajire and not me since it wasn't my idea to do that to them. Besides when I called them side kicks I was referring to them being that in Season 1 and 2 since there personality weren't realized completely in till season 3 when they decided to make main characters like Ash. This kind of explains why Brock is still in the anime as a main character. Now before you say anything about Misty doing more then Dawn I think you should check your facts because I don't remember Misty getting her own debuted episode dedicated to her alone or having a lot similarities between her and Ash like Dawn has between him. Another thing judging by how supportive Ash and Dawn are to each other like giving high fives and Dawn go as far as to put on a cute skimpy cheer leading outfit to encourage him in his gym battles kind of sums it up of how close they are compare to Misty.

 

[AshxDawnfangirl]

Given that you didn't cite any specific examples, I'm going to toss out here that the idea to GLOBALIZE the anime was made by the Japanese producers.

Go look it up and its shown clearly in the english dub like 4Kids taking japanese text words out and calling japanese foods different names like calling a rice cake a donut.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I did look it up. It's in the interview on Pokebeach with one of the former directors.

That's a more specific case. What you inferred was more of an overall package, and 4Kids only changed specifics.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Keep this in mind I do think the old ones were good still(from season 1 to 5) but I thought they still had flaws in them like the characters not having enough dept.

With this i have to disagree because Misty is one of the characters in pokemon who has the most depth in her character and personality.

I can't really agree either about the show being more funnier then compare to now but there were still funny moments in the old ones like Ash and Misty arguing and no I don't think she was that interested either.

And this is a matter of personal preference.You consider newer episodes being more interesting,and i older ones and finding this show being better with Misty around(one of the reasons why i want her back).
There is no problem with that,people have different opinions.

I'm not trying to insult you but to say the new ones are more predictable is a little ridiculous because i don't recall Dawn challenging a gym leader for a gym badge out of the blue like that being predictable which I wasn't even expecting that.

Theyre not completely predictable but when you compare new seasons with older ones you will easily notice how before there were more crazy unique plots like that St.Anne arc finishing with episode "Island of Giant Pokemon",gyms which werent only about battling for badge,like those ones in Orange Islands etc. which you dont encounter anymore in these days.

In these days pokemon is more centered around pokemon,than characters themselfs,and it is sticking with games more not having much anime only things,which is the main reason why i find it being more predictable in my opinion in his current form.

Well if you got problem with Brock and Misty at time being presented as side kicks I think you should take that up with Satoshi Tajire and not me since it wasn't my idea to do that to them.

Funny thing is that noone from writers side or any source connected with pokemon company stated how Brock and Misty are sidekicks.Nevertheless on every website you will find how they are listed under prootagonist section.
In all reality all this statements coming from some fans are just pure inventions and nothing more.

when they decided to make main characters like Ash.

Excuse me but what are you talking about?Every character who was so far part of the cast was a main character.

Now before you say anything about Misty doing more then Dawn I think you should check your facts because I don't remember Misty getting her own debuted episode dedicated to her alone

Actually Misty had episodes dedicated to her aswell.Also who was saying anything about Misty doing more than Dawn???
Reread the post.

Anyway yes Dawn is receiving more screentime than Misty did,the same goes with May(Ash is of course included aswell),but when you compare amount of screentime which Tracey,Brock or Max received with Mistys its noticable that during her run she received more spotlight than they did and did more.So all im saying is while she maybe wasnt true protagonist,at the same time she cant be put in the same boat like Max or Tracey is being something more than sidekick.

 

[ii kanji]

Protagonist =/= Main Character

You really can't deny that Kanto/Orange/Jouto were focused on anything other than Satoshi's gym quest. Sure Kasumi was hardly idle, but she didn't have an ongoing quest (don't give me the "water pokemon master" stuff) and the show was never about her. She was in essence just a supporting character for Satoshi, and therefore a "sidekick" if you'll call it that.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Protagonist =/= Main Character

You really can't deny that Kanto/Orange/Jouto were focused on anything other than Satoshi's gym quest. Sure Kasumi was hardly idle, but she didn't have an ongoing quest (don't give me the "water pokemon master" stuff) and the show was never about her.

Actually there were plots centered around Mistys character aswell,like Togepi,and her goal of becoming water pokemon master.Sure witers didnt focused much on it,and they didnt started to take more active approach until Johto(naming Whirl Cup which mentioned something about water pokemon masters) but not enough,and considering how they were doing mistakes with everyone during Johto its understandable why happened what happened.
It isnt characters fault for his goal not being fully explored but writers one.

Besides you misseed the whole point,like i already pointed out Misty/Kasumi received more screentime during her run than Max,Brock or Tracey did doing more so she cant be put in same boat like they are.Sure she wasnt protagonist in same sense like Ash,May,Dawn are but at the same time she was more than supporting cast.

 

[ii kanji]

Yeah, and there are plots centered around plently of characters other than Satoshi. Even TR get plots. But you've missed my point - the show itself is based on Satoshi, and only from AG onwards did they try and make the show equally about the girl (not that I'm sure they've accomplished that very well anyway.)

Anyway, I'm not going to bother arguing this, as I already know all your arguments.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Protagonist =/= Main Character

Actually, according to my various Literature classes, Protagonist = Main Character.

Yeah, and there are plots centered around plently of characters other than Satoshi. Even TR get plots.

It's still not to the same degree as Misty's episodes, though, which was his point. (Team Rocket, for example, gets about two episodes per saga, Brock's episodes, even in Kanto, were minimal, at best, and the only episodes Tracey even got to himself was the Magikarp migration episode and the Scyther Episode (well, ok, his introduction and leaving episodes did focus on him somewhat, but not to the same degree as those episodes above.). Misty, on the other hand, had the second most focused episodes in the show prior to Hoenn, second only to Ash.

Also, technically, Ash doesn't have an actual "on-going quest", seeing how most of his so-called "quest" is left unexplained (I mean, think about it. If they really wanted to emphasize that Ash was the be-all-end-all character, the star (not that he actually IS the star, but still), they would have given an undeniable explaination of his goal. I mean, Even Brock's goal seemed to be more defined than Ash's, and that's mainly due to the fact that his goal of being a breeder was explained in both the games and the anime. Ash's goal, on the other hand, was never given a proper explaination. In fact, seeing how Ash's goal isn't even defined at all (so he says "I wanna be a Pokemon Master", big wup! The term Pokemon Master has yet to be explained in the series, and they seem to dance around the subject faster than Spinda's teeter dance), that makes him no different than a Sidekick, if you really think about it.

But you've missed my point - the show itself is based on Satoshi, and only from AG onwards did they try and make the show equally about the girl (not that I'm sure they've accomplished that very well anyway.)

Actually, the show was barely even based on Ash at all. If the protagonists/main characters mean anything, it focused on ALL of Ash's teammates, not just Ash, even PRIOR to AG.

Of course, I'd rather not waste my time arguing, seeing how I hate arguements.

 

[AshxDawnfangirl]

Yeah, and there are plots centered around plently of characters other than Satoshi. Even TR get plots. But you've missed my point - the show itself is based on Satoshi, and only from AG onwards did they try and make the show equally about the girl (not that I'm sure they've accomplished that very well anyway.)

Anyway, I'm not going to bother arguing this, as I already know all your arguments.

I'm not going to argue with him either any more since I also argued most his points and basically what I said was mostly true since they did try to make a equal main character to Ash/Satoshi in the advance saga. To be honest I don't think they accomplished what they wanted to with May because she kind of felt bland compare to Misty and even though she was a main character she felt like a filler character then a main one. Now with the D/P saga I think they learned from their mistakes with May in the Advance saga and decided to make Dawn/Hikari equal to Ash in almost any way possible. I mean these two are the only main characters in the anime that have so many similarities between each other (own dedicated debut episode, see legendary pokemon at the start of their adventure, ECT) and they even have a intro song called "High Touch" where they both sing about how close they are.

 

[ShinyAeon]

Thought I posted this first part already, guess I forgot to hit "submit."

I grew up on pokemon. That said, im appalled by how bad the anime has gotten. It's like looking back at what got me into the franchise and thinking i've been duped by a bad show. Seeing as how the quality has been derailed by recycled plots and mundane attempts at story developement. A lot of people say the show is meant for children. With the amount of fanservice, profanity in subs, and well...."fake clevage" i've seen, I can disagree on many of those points. It may seem that way considering the dubs do dumb them down for american audiences (at least...these days), but the show itself is now nothing more than a marketing scheme for the actual nintendo products.

Dude, I think your memories are tinted with rose-colored nostalgia, if you think the anime has gotten in any way "worse" than it was when you were young.

I can say this with perfect confidence because I got into Pokemon only about two years ago, as an adult, and not only have I watched 3/4ths of the episodes in that time, I'm continually watching shows from Kanto, Orange Islands, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh just about every week, from all over the timeline...and I can say unequivocally that, when the seasons are set side-by-side, it becomes obvious that the anime has neither gotten worse, nor better, on the whole, over its long run.

Mind you, there IS a sort of up and down – the beginning of any saga starts off strong, but in the middle it sags a bit, and toward the end it picks up again – but the overall quality level has remained surprisingly consistent. There are changes that bring a bit of fresh air in (new cast members, new plot arcs, new recurring characters), but it began as a fairly well-done children's anime series, with humor, friendships, adventure and the occasional bit of drama with real emotion, and that's what it still is. It's not very deep (by Japanese standards...by American cartoon standards, it may not be Shakespeare, but it IS at least Dickens), but it generally tells a competant story, has lively character humor, and even the worst episodes usually have a couple of good moments.

However, having watched part of it as a child (its intended audience, after all) is bound to make some of it seem better, because children view things with a less critical eye. (I wish more adults could do that, too.)

~~~~~~

And now for something completely different...

Actually, according to my various Literature classes, Protagonist = Main Character.

Yeah, in a story with...one main character. But when you have a team of heroes, the "protagonists" become plural.

I quote from thefreedictionary.com: The protagonist of a Greek drama was its leading actor; therefore, there could be only one in a play. The question for speakers of modern English is whether a drama can have more than one protagonist. When members of the Usage Panel were asked "How many protagonists are there in Othello?" the great majority answered "One" and offered substitutes such as antagonist, villain, principal, and deuteragonist to describe Desdemona and Iago. Nevertheless, the word has been used in the plural to mean "important actors" or "principal characters" since at least 1671 when John Dryden wrote "Tis charg'd upon me that I make debauch'd persons ... my protagonists, or the chief persons of the drama." Some writers may prefer to confine their use of protagonist to refer to a single actor or chief participant, but it is pointless to insist that the broader use is wrong."

Not that Pokemon is a full ensemble show...it scores somewhere in between ensemble and "one main character" status. Brock, Misty, et al. are not quite mere "sidekicks," yet not quite as fully focused-on as Ash.

It's still not to the same degree as Misty's episodes, though, which was his point. (Team Rocket, for example, gets about two episodes per saga, Brock's episodes, even in Kanto, were minimal, at best, and the only episodes Tracey even got to himself was the Magikarp migration episode and the Scyther Episode (well, ok, his introduction and leaving episodes did focus on him somewhat, but not to the same degree as those episodes above.). Misty, on the other hand, had the second most focused episodes in the show prior to Hoenn, second only to Ash.

She was also the longest running of his companions for a good while (since Brock had a hiatus) and the character with the second-most forceful personality. And Misty hasn't had that many episodes (before Chronicles) that focused on her exclusively (the only one I can really think of is "Stun Spore Detour"); what she had was episodes where she was sharing more of the focus than usual ("Pokemon Fashion Flash," "For Cryin' Out Loud," etc), but still sharing it with someone else.

You could make arguments for Tracey having a greater percentage of focus-episodes per episodes-appeared-in (because his time was so short)...you could make arguments for Meowth (who is still the only character to have the main portion of one episode dedicated to telling the story of his life in flashback).

But I think all you can really say is Misty (as the only girl) fared better in the focus-department than Brock, while not as well as May and Dawn (because the idea of having "the girl" be engaged on a separate-but-mostly-equal quest had not been developed yet). I still count her as being as just as important as May or Dawn because of her role as the "lancer" or "gadfly" to Ash, a very influential part (structurally and emotionally) of any group of heroes.

But Ash is still the main focus of the show.

Also, technically, Ash doesn't have an actual "on-going quest", seeing how most of his so-called "quest" is left unexplained (I mean, think about it. If they really wanted to emphasize that Ash was the be-all-end-all character, the star (not that he actually IS the star, but still), they would have given an undeniable explaination of his goal. I mean, Even Brock's goal seemed to be more defined than Ash's, and that's mainly due to the fact that his goal of being a breeder was explained in both the games and the anime. Ash's goal, on the other hand, was never given a proper explaination. In fact, seeing how Ash's goal isn't even defined at all (so he says "I wanna be a Pokemon Master", big wup! The term Pokemon Master has yet to be explained in the series, and they seem to dance around the subject faster than Spinda's teeter dance), that makes him no different than a Sidekick, if you really think about it.

BWAAAAAH-HAAAAH-HAAAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAH-HAAAAA...HAAAH HAH HAH!

Okay, that was as impressive a display of sheer sophistry as I've ever seen in a post, the best reversal of fact in a single paragraph since Douglas Adams explained how the Babel Fish finally and clinchingly proved the non-existence of God.

Okay, lemme get this straight:

Ash, widely held as both the main character of the Pokemon anime, engaged on a 12-year (our time) quest to become a Pokemon master, is really neither, because...

A) he doesn't really have an "on-going quest" because

B) his "so-called quest" is left "unexplained," and of course

C) if they REALLY wanted to represent Ash as the star, they would have given him an "undeniable explaination[sic] of his goal;" as further proof of this,

D) his quest is not as well-defined as even Brock's (because Brock's was explained in both the anime and the game(?) (...I thought in the game he was supposed to be just a real tough gym leader...) and

E) if Ash's quest to be a Pokemon Master was actually the focus of the series, it WOULD have been given a "proper explanation"...in fact,

F) it isn't even defined at all, because saying "I wanna be a Pokemon Master!" (almost every episode!) doesn't count, as

G) "Pokemon Master" has yet to be explained, and therefore

H) Ash is really "no better than a sidekick."

To which I have but one question:

Sidekick...to whom?

Because unless you're presenting Pikachu – or Team Rocket – as the real "Main Character" here, you've just run out of candidates for the role.

Actually, the show was barely even based on Ash at all.

:lol:

Yep, 'cause the complete focus of the plot arcs of the show (before Hoenn) on Ash's entering, earning badges for, and competing in regional tournaments is, y'know, just kind of incidental.

But I have to hand it to you, that was an amazing display of screwball logic, almost worthy of Gracie Allen.

Of course, I'd rather not waste my time arguing, seeing how I hate arguements.

Er...yeah...right....