Is anyone disappointed about the lack of evolutions to old Pokémon?

[EmpoleonProd]

Except that something being 'good' or 'bad' is by definition an opinion and therefore cannot be fact. Claiming otherwise is, as you say, false.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing anymore, I meant as far as usability in battle, most of those evolutions were good or still are good. If we're talking design wise, sure, some of them suck, but some are definitely amazing, Weavile and Roserade are some of my favorites, I also love the Sinnoh Eeveelution duo.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Weavile, Ambipom, Mismagius, Honchkrow, Gliscor, Gallade, Togekiss, Magnezone, Porygon-Z, Mamoswine, Froslass,

Yeah, point proven. Most of them were great. Just because Electivire and Magmortar were crap, doesn't mean you get to generalize every Gen IV evolution of older Pokemon.

Idk what ambipom, PZ, Honchkrow, Mismagius, and froslass are doing on that list. Even gallade is debatable - his Mega is OK, but the opportunity cost is just WAAAAY too high. And Tangrowth DEFINITELY needs to be on there. Tangrowth was a pillar of stall in ORAS and will probs still be good once all the BS like Lando-I and Pheromosa gets banned.

 

[King Robert]

Not really, no.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Idk what ambipom, PZ, Honchkrow, Mismagius, and froslass are doing on that list. Even gallade is debatable - his Mega is OK, but the opportunity cost is just WAAAAY too high. And Tangrowth DEFINITELY needs to be on there. Tangrowth was a pillar of stall in ORAS and will probs still be good once all the BS like Lando-I and Pheromosa gets banned.

Almost all the Pokemon I mentioned are rated at least UU or higher from DP, like I said, they either are still good, or were good when they were released. And sorry I missed a couple.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Almost all the Pokemon I mentioned are rated at least UU or higher from DP, like I said, they either are still good, or were good when they were released. And sorry I missed a couple.

Oh, you counted UU as good. i see now, it works then

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Oh, you counted UU as good. i see now, it works then

Go look at them yourself. I said at least UU or better, many of them were BL or OU as well. I'm a VGC player so I can't say I'm 100% familiar with the old Smogon formats, but typically things from UU and higher are quite usable in VGC.

 

[Envoy]

Almost all the Pokemon I mentioned are rated at least UU or higher from DP, like I said, they either are still good, or were good when they were released. And sorry I missed a couple.

Battle competence is not the only metric to decide whether a Pokemon is good or not.

Least of all by Smogon standards. There's a reason the tiers are called Over Used, Under Used, etc...

Tiers are based on usage and the metagame can shift in many ways over the course of a generation, fluctuating the usage of certain Pokemon at certain times. The metagame might be crawling with good psychic types one minute, thus necessitating the use of Dark types, and the next it can be filled with Fighting types. I'm oversimplifying, of course, but the point is that even in Smogon's system, what is 'good' is purely subjective. What is good and what is used are not the same thing and Smogon itself acknowledges that. Ever notice how Pokemon tend to have analyses for tiers above the ones that they belong to? Yeah, there's a reason for that.

The point is that in one meta, a Pokemon might be an OU god and in the next, it might be PU trash. It all depends on what the metagame trends are at the moment. So even your definition of 'good' is still subjective as fuck and the placement of these Pokemon on Smogon tiers doesn't change that.

 

[Gengarzilla]

It's a little disappointing, but they were low priority for me anyway.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Go look at them yourself. I said at least UU or better, many of them were BL or OU as well. I'm a VGC player so I can't say I'm 100% familiar with the old Smogon formats, but typically things from UU and higher are quite usable in VGC.

I was using a different metric of "good" - not "in the tier", but VIABLE in the tier. This goes with what Envoy was saying, earlier, that the tier a Pokemon is actually IN doesn't really correlate with how GOOD it is. I'll swear by Gastrodon or Crawdaunt as GOOD Pokemon despite not being OU, but I'd also argue that Donphan is objectively bad even though it was OU for much of XY. I mentioned that Tabgrowth should be on your list, but Tangrowth wasn't actually OU for large portions of XY and ORAS. The ones I mentioned - ambipom and pals - are not only not OU, they are not really useable in OU, either (with the exception of Gallade, as I mentioned). If we expand the definition of "good" to "useable in UU", then mons like Froslass and PZ make a lot more sense on the list (ambipom, though? Still no IMO ahaha )

 

[Guzma]

Uh, guys? I wasn't talking about the competitive viability of the Gen IV evos, I was talking about their designs... I mean, there were a lot of good ones (Gallade, Roserade, Weavile, Gliscor and Porygon-Z are the best ones), but we also ended up with Lickilicky and Ambipom...

Also, Porygon-Z is hilarious. I love it.

 

[Vyrron]

After the "quality" of some of the evos from Diamond and Pearl, we might be better off solely with new Pokemon.

Some of them were debatable (Rhyperior for example) but personally I loved most of them, and they made me want to use Pokemon I would've otherwise not cared about, unlike Mega Evolutions.

So yeah, I'd absolutely love more cross-gen evolutions. But I'm not disappointed since I didn't expect any.

 

[Guzma]

Some of them were debatable (Rhyperior for example) but personally I loved most of them, and they made me want to use Pokemon I would've otherwise not cared about, unlike Mega Evolutions.

So yeah, I'd absolutely love more cross-gen evolutions. But I'm not disappointed since I didn't expect any.

I don't think they were all bad, it was just sort of a mixed bag. It's still a reason I'm wary enough about cross-gen evolutions. That being said, I still like cross-gen evos more than Megas. Personally, I'd like to see a Poison/Steel Garbodor evo that wears a trash can as armor. It could be a physical tank.

I call it "Oscar."

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

No. Magmortar, Electivire, Rhyperior and the others were all good both in design and for battles in my opinion. Gen 4 didn't have a bad evolution of an older pokemon in my opinion.

 

[Silktree]

I'm just curious what Game Freak will do for the next generation. Do we really need another mechanic like Mega Evolution or Z-moves? Perhaps without a new one they'll consider a simpler approach. I'm also baffled that even when they're willing to modify base stats, the changes are modest and the selection is pretty random.

Until then, I hope we get a sizable number of regional variants in the next installments of the generation.

 

[lavandula]

I'm just curious what Game Freak will do for the next generation. Do we really need another mechanic like Mega Evolution or Z-moves? Perhaps without a new one they'll consider a simpler approach. I'm also baffled that even when they're willing to modify base stats, the changes are modest and the selection is pretty random.

Until then, I hope we get a sizable number of regional variants in the next installments of the generation.

I'd be really unhappy if they don't want to make new Megas.
I personally think that Megas are way more cooler than regular cross gen evos.
But then, cross gen evos are still a good way to revive old mons, in my opinion.
And certainly better than doing nothing towards old mons.

Alolan forms were cool to me at first, but then, I have this problem-- you can't use your old Pokemon and expect it to become viable, because it will never turn into an Alolan form.
In the end, you need to catch a new individual from the same species, instead of being able to use your old friends.
Maybe some people think it's silly because Pokemon are supposed to be just data, but I personally had always had this friend factor when I play Pokemon, and I know a lot of other people do the same.

 

[Silktree]

Alolan forms were cool to me at first, but then, I have this problem-- you can't use your old Pokemon and expect it to become viable, because it will never turn into an Alolan form.

I get what you mean, but regional variants are about finding a new appreciation for old Pokemon that doesn't necessarily have to do with viability. I like Alolan Ninetales, Marowak and Sandslash about as much as their original counterparts.

 

[Necrozma]

After the "quality" of some of the evos from Diamond and Pearl, we might be better off solely with new Pokemon.

I COMPLETELY disagree.

Most of the new evolutions from gen 4 were great in my opinion and it sucks we aren't getting more of them.

 

[Envoy]

I'm just curious what Game Freak will do for the next generation. Do we really need another mechanic like Mega Evolution or Z-moves? Perhaps without a new one they'll consider a simpler approach. I'm also baffled that even when they're willing to modify base stats, the changes are modest and the selection is pretty random.

Until then, I hope we get a sizable number of regional variants in the next installments of the generation.

The general consensus seems to be that Z-Moves wound up pretty underwhelming, so maybe GF will change their approach for the next installments.




On the topic of Gen IV cross-gen evos, we had some really good ones. Personal favorites include Honchkrow, Mismagius, Roserade, Gallade, Leafeon and Glaceon, and Dusknoir.

We also had some really bad ones. I mean, you're seriously telling me that stuff like Electivire, Magmortar, Lickilicky, Tangrowth, Togekiss, and Rhyperior are well-designed? Because if you do, then I can't take you seriously. Are they good in battle? Some are. I like to use Tangrowth and Togekiss in competitive, but their designs are ugly af.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

On the topic of Gen IV cross-gen evos, we had some really good ones. Personal favorites include Honchkrow, Mismagius, Roserade, Gallade, Leafeon and Glaceon, and Dusknoir.

We also had some really bad ones. I mean, you're seriously telling me that stuff like Electivire, Magmortar, Lickilicky, Tangrowth, Togekiss, and Rhyperior are well-designed? Because if you do, then I can't take you seriously. Are they good in battle? Some are. I like to use Tangrowth and Togekiss in competitive, but their designs are ugly af.

Actually, they are only bad to you. Some of us actually like those pokemon. I considered them well designed and possible to use in battle. That is my opinion however.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

I definitely do not like the idea of new Pokemon evolutions for old Pokemon, because to me it seems dumb having an evolution not present in a previous generation.

Uh, guys? I wasn't talking about the competitive viability of the Gen IV evos, I was talking about their designs... I mean, there were a lot of good ones (Gallade, Roserade, Weavile, Gliscor and Porygon-Z are the best ones), but we also ended up with Lickilicky and Ambipom...

Also, Porygon-Z is hilarious. I love it.

Eh I liked Ambipom but I felt like Mamoswine looked wierd.