Is the Pokémon Anime a children's show, or is there more to it than that?

[Feenie]

If N is in the show, it would have more than kiddy stuff

Agreed, agreed. It sure would.

 

[megaevolvedmushroom]

Kanto, and parts of OI and Johto - not specifically aimed at kids.
H oenn/BF - Yes.
Sinnoh -Yes
Unova - Yes

 

[Almonds]

That last Charizard episode and Team Plasma episode sort of proved that the show isn't specifically for kids. Sure, it's aimed at kids, but by bringing back Charizard, they also had the older audience in mind.

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

Of course it's a children's show. It's always been a children's show (though it does have some dramatic moments that I enjoy). It'll continue to BE a children's show until Ash/Satoshi's never-ending quest to do whatever it is he's honestly doing at this point, loses enough viewership to end his quest in the middle of nowhere, which isn't going to happen for a LONG time to come, though.

Although, I do feel the anime seemed like it had more effort put into it before, and carried with it emotionally believable characters, investment, and some believable degree of maturity in its earlier arcs: in terms of trying to convey a light-hearted, simple tale, as opposed to a mesh of different things that don't fit well with one another in the larger scope of things. Plus, the JPN writers cared to write half-decent leagues and did justice to the older characters before, too. Ash never regressed before in league rank, either. IMHO, the anime has clearly become a juggernaut for money to those in charge of it in JPN and English now. That's just my opinion, though. I'm not saying you have to agree. I don't hate it, and I can't hate it, but that's how I really feel about it these days.

My thoughts on the dub?

The dubbers used to actually somewhat care back in the 4Kids days (despite the editing). Honestly, the Unova Pokerap was a joke: "Patrat...watches stuff...Pansear burns n' burns n' burns!" Yeah, really creative, it's no wonder that I must be blinded by nostalgia to think the Kanto Pokerap was easily the best of the three English-only Pokeraps. The Hoenn one (by TPCi, since 4Kids never made one) was the worst though IMO..."GROO-DIN, KYOG-REEE!"

In general, they are best described by this quote I took from a review of M011:

"And in the end, who really cares if the show gets edited somewhat? It's friggin' Pokemon. It's a no-holds-barred 20-minute commercial for video and card games aimed at 8-year-olds. The only reason why it holds any value at all to me, and the only reason I can think of why it would do so to anyone over 12 or so, is pure nostalgia, and that only goes so far. Seriously, there's nothing at all artistically redeeming about the show; so what if they relabel a few rice balls as "donuts"? Give me the original cast and the original dub any day of the week."

 

[Lillie]

It's definitely a kids show.

 

[Albedo]

Doubt it. After years of seeing this series They already moved past the life lesson part and moved on into the plushie selling kids show part of it.

 

[FANG-TAN]

Takeshi Shudo originally intended to create something that was appealing to both Japanese children and their parents (as indicated by jokes in the anime's original intended run and themes seen in the first movie that you would never see in the current anime nowadays). He clearly lost most of the control he had over the story once Shopro/OLM decided to extend the series, and the series quickly devolved into something that's purely intended to appeal to just young children.

So my answer is, no, there's nothing more to it than being a children's anime nowadays, though it clearly tried to be something more back then.

 

[Boyblunt]

The anime is still a kids show. It would be nice if another show was created aimed at older audiences, but apparently they are in the minority. The manga tends to drift to the older age groups.

 

[FANG-TAN]

The anime is still a kids show. It would be nice if another show was created aimed at older audiences, but apparently they are in the minority. The manga tends to drift to the older age groups.

Which manga? There are tons of Pokemon manga. And most, if not all, are aimed at elementary school kids, though they also appeal to older age groups.

 

[Jukain]

*reads my original post in this thread, notes it was written after BW036* How in the world was it that I was still that optimistic then? I guess the things I consider horrific now are only horrific in retrospect now that I know what the rest of the saga is like. Anyway, I might have been able to say that sort of stuff about AG or DP, but not about BW. This junk will cheese off EVERYONE, even the target audience. There is no telling if the mentality of DP will return or not. Episode N remains a confused mess to me, and it is getting difficult to tell how I will evaluate it. I guess I will add a condition to my original statement: the anime is enjoyable by everyone ONLY when they put effort into it. Otherwise, it's as kiddy as kiddy can get.

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

Takeshi Shudo originally intended to create something that was appealing to both Japanese children and their parents (as indicated by jokes in the anime's original intended run and themes seen in the first movie that you would never see in the current anime nowadays). He clearly lost most of the control he had over the story once Shopro/OLM decided to extend the series, and the series quickly devolved into something that's purely intended to appeal to just young children.

So my answer is, no, there's nothing more to it than being a children's anime nowadays, though it clearly tried to be something more back then.

Yeah, I strongly feel this way myself. I mean, it was still a children's anime before, but they still really put a lot more emotion into it before. A lot more emotional moments didn't come off as forced, more mature humor, that kind of stuff. Before, this anime still shined in terms of keeping the show...emotionally relatable sometimes. But it seems like this show has become more childish, but it's lost all of those moments where you still felt like the characters had their tough experiences, and through those experiences struggled and worked harder to get back up and get better and better. DP had a lot of that, and I like that, despite DP being my least favorite arc of this series thus far. No matter how much Paul pushed Ash down, he fought back with everything he had. Something I love about this series is that it taught me that you can't give up on your dreams, and if you fail, you just work harder and harder to get better at what you do. There's a lot more morals that are taught in OS and AG, though, and that's a trait I miss in the newer series. Everyone wasn't hunky-dory, and they worked together to get stronger, playing off each others' strengths and weakness to well...improve and recognize their own. Sure the basic premise of the anime has been the same since Day 1, but the show itself is just not the same anymore to me. It's lost that charm that made it unique and really made it stand out from other series. It's a shame to me to see it go on this long: I just wish it wasn't dragged out like this myself. Ash's tale should have ended with the older generation, so that the newer generation would have their own hero to look up to. That's how I feel myself.

 

[Boyblunt]

Which manga? There are tons of Pokemon manga. And most, if not all, are aimed at elementary school kids, though they also appeal to older age groups.[/QUOTE]

I currently read Platinum, Black & White and Ruby & Sapphire comes out next month. While kids may enjoy it I think it appeals to older audiences more.

 

[FANG-TAN]

I currently read Platinum, Black & White and Ruby & Sapphire comes out next month. While kids may enjoy it I think it appeals to older audiences more.

Pocket Monsters Ruby & Sapphire or Pocket Monsters Special RS saga? And there's more than a few manga series based on Black and White.

While I was at Kinokuniya (Japanese book store), there were quite a few kids gawking at the Pokemon manga in the children's manga section while most of the teens and adults were browsing elsewhere. The Pokemon manga series are mainly designed to appeal to children, but there are elements that could be considered appealing to older age groups as well. The one thing I think that separates the anime and manga series like Pokemon Special, is that the anime dips into the kodomo range, while the manga series tends to be third grade and up (in many cases with recent series, somewhat shounen). There's also the fact that Japanese comics are allowed to get away with more things than Japanese cartoons, so even if they are both aimed at the same audience, a manga will sometimes feel like it's appealing to an older audience when it's just the mangaka exercising the freedoms they have within the medium. Ono's bodacious fanservice in his manga interpretation of the anime is one extreme example.

Sure the basic premise of the anime has been the same since Day 1, but the show itself is just not the same anymore to me. It's lost that charm that made it unique and really made it stand out from other series. It's a shame to me to see it go on this long: I just wish it wasn't dragged out like this myself. Ash's tale should have ended with the older generation, so that the newer generation would have their own hero to look up to. That's how I feel myself.

For me, that would have been the best way to go. I loved Satoshi as a main character in the beginning, and I would have remembered him more fondly if he recurred in newer series as a legend instead of the stagnant protagonist I see him as now. One upside to introducing new main characters like in the games and Pokemon Special is that your old main characters can still appear again, a point which many people seem to miss in the anime fandom. He's not gonna be gone forever - it's up to the writers, in the end.

 

[Boyblunt]

I did not know there were multiple iterations. I shop online at Amazon and I go to Books A Million and Barnes and Noble. I have only known of one series that being Pokemon Adventures. These books are found in the Young Adult section of the stores. You are right about being able to get away with more in the manga than the anime. I prefer the manga just for refreshing characters instead of Mr. Ketchum all the time.

 

[CrystaI]

Pokemon anime was originally tended to be a "family" show enjoyable by everyone in any age group. After Shudo Takeshi left somewhere in the middle of Johto saga, it is the time the show getting childish. The clear distinction can be seen starting from the next AG saga. That, is the time Pokemon anime starting to be a "preteen" show.

Note, I'm not saying kids or children in this context, because such wording do not clearly distinct the age group of target audience. "Preteen" (Japanese uses the word Kodomo) will means target audience of <13 years old. "Teenage" (Japanese uses the word Shounen) will means target audience of 13~19 years old. Please understand clearly that these two target audience age group had complete different mentality and mind-set. I'd also discussed this issue in another thread back in some times before.

Preteens are still innocent in their mind which cannot tell what is good or evil, they tend to imitate what they saw from their environment. Therefore Kodomo fictional series must be moralistic and educational, teaching children how to behave as good and considerate people and helping them to stay on the right path in life. The show should not contain themes that is too complicated for preteen children to understand. Things like romance, complicated scientific background, politics, religions, history must all be dropped. Also plotline itself should not be too complicated either.

On the other hand, teenagers is in the age period of mental rebelliousness, one always think oneself is always right, so it is the time where one starting to do things on their own without the help of the parents, and make their own decisions on whatever issues one might encounter. Therefore, the Shounen fictional series mostly portray the growth of one person from amateur to professional through the challenges in the plots, whether such growth is in the characters' abilities, skills, or mentality. It can now includes themes that were dropped for preteens series, and plots can be more difficult and/or complicated.


Well, I have to say the current Pokemon Anime surely made (more correctly speaking, forced) itself successfully into the Kodomo series. But from the fictional idea viewpoint, I always think this is inappropriate, because the idea of training monster, participate battle of such monster as sport, and using such monster to save the world is more appropriate in the Shounen category.

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

*sigh* It used to be a family show-- something anyone could enjoy. Just to have fun.

Sadly, it has lost any and all of that feeling over the years. It's become more and more of a children's show as the years have passed. Sure the basic plot and premise have always remained the same, but so many things have changed that the show isn't really relatable to anyone but the younger children these days.

Up until Johto, it was a show for anyone, though. A bit at the beginning of AG, too. Post beg AG, it became more and more for the children than the family.

Pokemon anime was originally tended to be a "family" show enjoyable by everyone in any age group. After Shudo Takeshi left somewhere in the middle of Johto saga, it is the time the show getting childish. The clear distinction can be seen starting from the next AG saga. That, is the time Pokemon anime starting to be a "preteen" show.

Note, I'm not saying kids or children in this context, because such wording do not clearly distinct the age group of target audience. "Preteen" (Japanese uses the word Kodomo) will means target audience of <13 years old. "Teenage" (Japanese uses the word Shounen) will means target audience of 13~19 years old. Please understand clearly that these two target audience age group had complete different mentality and mind-set. I'd also discussed this issue in another thread back in some times before.

Preteens are still innocent in their mind which cannot tell what is good or evil, they tend to imitate what they saw from their environment. Therefore Kodomo fictional series must be moralistic and educational, teaching children how to behave as good and considerate people and helping them to stay on the right path in life. The show should not contain themes that is too complicated for preteen children to understand. Things like romance, complicated scientific background, politics, religions, history must all be dropped. Also plotline itself should not be too complicated either.

On the other hand, teenagers is in the age period of mental rebelliousness, one always think oneself is always right, so it is the time where one starting to do things on their own without the help of the parents, and make their own decisions on whatever issues one might encounter. Therefore, the Shounen fictional series mostly portray the growth of one person from amateur to professional through the challenges in the plots, whether such growth is in the characters' abilities, skills, or mentality. It can now includes themes that were dropped for preteens series, and plots can be more difficult and/or complicated.


Well, I have to say the current Pokemon Anime surely made (more correctly speaking, forced) itself successfully into the Kodomo series. But from the fictional idea viewpoint, I always think this is inappropriate, because the idea of training monster, participate battle of such monster as sport, and using such monster to save the world is more appropriate in the Shounen category.

Agreed with you. The beginning of AG had some very mature moments to it, though, like Ash struggling to get his Pikachu back to normal. Even despite being bit hard and almost at the edge of a cliff, Satoshi/Ash still held on because that's how deep his bond was with his Pokemon-- he was willing to die for his Pikachu. I thought that writing was very Takeshi Shudo-esque in comparison to what comes next. Post that, though....yeah, it's become more preteen with each successive season of AG onwards.

Whatever the case, the depth and feeling the show was for everyone really began to fade after Shudo left.

 

[CrystaI]

Agreed with you. The beginning of AG had some very mature moments to it, though, like Ash struggling to get his Pikachu back to normal. Even despite being bit hard and almost at the edge of a cliff, Satoshi/Ash still held on because that's how deep his bond was with his Pokemon-- he was willing to die for his Pikachu. I thought that writing was very Takeshi Shudo-esque in comparison to what comes next. Post that, though....yeah, it's become more preteen with each successive season of AG onwards.

Whatever the case, the depth and feeling the show was for everyone really began to fade after Shudo left.

You know what? General Friendship theme is also one of the common theme used very often in Kodomo series.

In Shounen fictional works, other than the normal general friendship, they may have apprenticeship between students and teacher, partnership between two characters with certain common goal, comradeship between allies in battles, companionship and/or fellowship between one's traveling companions, colleagueship between peoples in one's working place... etc. So, friendship is not the only non-romance relationship available between people.

To tell the truth, I don't see any kind of "maturity" after Johto saga. Even Ash may be injured or at some critical moment, but that doesn't make a scene "maturer" or anything. Even in many other Kodomo fictional works, characters are allowed to be injured severely if one encountered some accident or disaster.

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

Agreed with you. The beginning of AG had some very mature moments to it, though, like Ash struggling to get his Pikachu back to normal. Even despite being bit hard and almost at the edge of a cliff, Satoshi/Ash still held on because that's how deep his bond was with his Pokemon-- he was willing to die for his Pikachu. I thought that writing was very Takeshi Shudo-esque in comparison to what comes next. Post that, though....yeah, it's become more preteen with each successive season of AG onwards.

Whatever the case, the depth and feeling the show was for everyone really began to fade after Shudo left.

You know what? General Friendship theme is also one of the common theme used very often in Kodomo series.

In Shounen fictional works, other than the normal general friendship, they may have apprenticeship between students and teacher, partnership between two characters with certain common goal, comradeship between allies in battles, companionship and/or fellowship between one's traveling companions, colleagueship between peoples in one's working place... etc. So, friendship is not the only non-romance relationship available between people.

To tell the truth, I don't see any kind of "maturity" after Johto saga. Even Ash may be injured or at some critical moment, but that doesn't make a scene "maturer" or anything. Even in many other Kodomo fictional works, characters are allowed to be injured severely if one encountered some accident or disaster.

Fair enough. The maturity of the anime started to fade after Johto for me, some of it was left in the first season of AG, and post that it's grown more kodomo and less shounen, IMO.

 

[GibleKidd]

I would definitely say that while it is directed towards a younger audience, there's more to it. No matter how recycled the "say goodbye to a good friend/until we meet again" thing feels, its very relevant to life. I watched Gliscor's departure episode (for the first time in a good while) the other day and im not gonna lie, I got slightly emotional. They still do a good job with it, in my mind. Ya know, sometimes those close to you have to go down a separate path and even though it may not be easy, sometimes its for the best and the positive memories and hopes of the future always stay alive and well.

Then you have the Paul rivalry, which I find extremely relevant to life. Im sure a lot of fans have that 'polar opposite' in their life they can relate to. And I think the rivalry did a good job of showing that you may not always one up that person, but if you believe in yourself and stay true to the path you feel is right, regardless of how much they might press you on it, you can always prosper in the end. I know you can make the argument there are plenty of animes/cartoons like that, but its Pokemon, for some this is the only anime they watch haha.

There are plenty of things like that imo. Even today with characters like N..

 

[Pokémon Master Ash]

I would definitely say that while it is directed towards a younger audience, there's more to it. No matter how recycled the "say goodbye to a good friend/until we meet again" thing feels, its very relevant to life. I watched Gliscor's departure episode (for the first time in a good while) the other day and im not gonna lie, I got slightly emotional. They still do a good job with it, in my mind. Ya know, sometimes those close to you have to go down a separate path and even though it may not be easy, sometimes its for the best and the positive memories and hopes of the future always stay alive and well.

Then you have the Paul rivalry, which I find extremely relevant to life. Im sure a lot of fans have that 'polar opposite' in their life they can relate to. And I think the rivalry did a good job of showing that you may not always one up that person, but if you believe in yourself and stay true to the path you feel is right, regardless of how much they might press you on it, you can always prosper in the end. I know you can make the argument there are plenty of animes/cartoons like that, but its Pokemon, for some this is the only anime they watch haha.

There are plenty of things like that imo. Even today with characters like N..

For sure, there are still SOME emotional moments in the newer seasons. IMO, there aren't as much, though.

Ash getting Chimchar from Paul, Gliscor's departure, Dawn's departure, and Ash remembering his best moments with Charizard spring to mind for Sinnoh and Unova.

Hoenn had a TON of them: I'm not going to lie, that moment where Ash is sleeping besides his Pikachu is really sweet, and things like that are truly missing into today's Pokemon seasons. That true, genuine emotion you can see behind the characters. The depth has gone way downhill, IMO.

Kanto-Johto had the most, IMO, and for the most part came off as the most believable to me.