Preview JN008: Don't Lose, Pochama! The Drift Ice Race in the Sinnoh Region!!

[Silktree]

Koharu doesn't even have her own episode yet and already past girls are being treated as essential for the show. I'm guessing that Serena, Lillie and Mallow are next because of the calendar? Four girls and Brock, really? How about we let Koharu become a traveling companion (as the opening implies) before we go down this rabbit hole? Piplup served its role in Movie 20 without Dawn, and Brock appeared without Croagunk in SM. They are hardly inseparable and this episode is obviously about the Pokemon, which might as well be wild.

And before anyone says it, yes, I admit to being wrong about the continuity. I had my reasons and I still don't think that this series is particularly continuity-driven (the badge/trophy montage is the same thing they pulled in early BW, only to ignore it). They're promoting a lot of old Pokemon in advance but only new characters. I don't see how it makes sense to keep early character returns a secret, but I suppose that next year could be a different story.

The main purpose of this series is to promote as many Pokemon as possible regardless of the games.

Oh, I'll hold out hope. It's happened too many times an old character reappeared after being gone for so long. Especially when they had little or no reason to come back. I just won't be upset if it doesn't happen.

I can only think of Misty and Brock in SM, and they certainly had a reason to come back (first the anniversary, then LGPE promotion as well as making them more familiar in time for the movie remake). Charizard is just Charizard... They needed it and arguably Dragonite seeing as most of the Unova Pokemon weren't that popular.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Koharu doesn't even have her own episode yet and already past girls are being treated as essential for the show. I'm guessing that Serena, Lillie and Mallow are next because of the calendar? Four girls and Brock, really? How about we let Koharu become a traveling companion (as the opening implies) before we go down this rabbit hole? Piplup served its role in Movie 20 without Dawn, and Brock appeared without Croagunk in SM. They are hardly inseparable and this episode is obviously about the Pokemon, which might as well be wild.

Koharu doesn't seem to be a main character as much as Ash and Go are.

 

[BigDocFan]

Bulbapedia are listing Koharu as a supporting character

 

[RileyXY1]

Piplup and Croagunk are not tied to Dawn and Brock. Piplup appeared in M20 without Dawn and Brock appeared in SM without Croagunk. I can see the Piplup and Croagunk here being owned by new characters that might be recurring considering that Piplup and Croagunk are on the poster.

 

[Panky..]

Piplup and Croagunk are not tied to Dawn and Brock. Piplup appeared in M20 without Dawn and Brock appeared in SM without Croagunk.

Have they ever appeared together, at the same time... in an episode focused on the very region that they've been known to us for? Not counting the DP arc of course.

I can see the Piplup and Croagunk here being owned by new characters that might be recurring considering that Piplup and Croagunk are on the poster.

This... this makes no sense. I don't even know what to say... someone help me.

EDIT: Why even bother going through the trouble to create new characters with copy pasted Piplup and Croagunk when there are two well defined characters who already exist with relevance and relations to Ash?

 

[RileyXY1]

Have they ever appeared together, at the same time... in an episode focused on the very region that they've been known to us for? Not counting the DP arc of course.

This... this makes no sense. I don't even know what to say... someone help me.

EDIT: Why even bother going through the trouble to create new characters with copy pasted Piplup and Croagunk when there are two well defined characters who already exist with relevance and relations to Ash?

Because of the younger audience. They would have to reintroduce these returning characters for the younger fans who didn't watch DP, and I don't think that they would have returning characters only eight episodes in unless this saga is filled to the brim with returning characters.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

They would have to reintroduce these returning characters for the younger fans who didn't watch DP,

Misty was literally last seen in AG (I think?) after which she reappeared in Alola. Dawn is more recent compared to her with the last appearance being in BW.

 

[RileyXY1]

Misty was literally last seen in AG (I think?) after which she reappeared in Alola. Dawn is more recent compared to her with the last appearance being in BW.

Misty is from Gen 1 which gets preferential treatment.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Misty is from Gen 1 which gets preferential treatment.

Still, that means your argument was invalid since those children haven’t seen OS or AG. Also, they posted a recap of all leagues when the young children hadn’t watched OS,AG,DP,BW or XY and Pokemon.com had a satire article detailing every loss which by your logic they should’ve ignored the existence of since the children haven’t watched that.

 

[RileyXY1]

Also, I don't think that there would be returning characters as early as the eighth episode unless this saga is full of them.

 

[Panky..]

Because of the younger audience. They would have to reintroduce these returning characters for the younger fans who didn't watch DP, and I don't think that they would have returning characters only eight episodes in unless this saga is filled to the brim with returning characters.

I'll just leave this here in case you didn't read it. Your only argument for them not returning (actually, everyone's only common argument) is "younger audience will be confused" but this post and what the guy/gal said pretty much disproves that. Did you also forget the recent special that recapped everything?

Reintroducing a past character doesn't take that much effort as shown with Brock/Misty, and if anything, their appearance only adds to the positives.

I really hope you are right.

On a separate note, the age old argument that past companions reappearing would be too much for the new audience has reappeared for the millionth time. Although I have argued against this many times in the past, I have thought of an example that may be useful, although very few on here change their minds to age old arguments, and with certain individuals it isn't even worth trying (valiant effort @Panky.. but many have failed before you and will continue to fail after...).

Anyway, on to the example, take the episode "Hot Springing a Leak". Dawn happened to already have a preexisting relationship with Leona. Leona had never appeared before in the anime, so none of the audience knew who she was. The episode wasn't dedicated to establishing Leona and Dawn's past relationship, it was just a regular filler type plot for the era. Having Leona instead of a random cotd didn't damage the episode in anyway, in fact it probably made the main cast's involvement more believable, because sometimes they get overly involved with people they just met. For many, it was pretty cool to see a glimpse into Dawn's past as well, getting to meet one of her old friends. The episode still stood on the same plot it could have with a random cotd, and whether you liked the episode or not, it really didn't make a huge difference that Dawn knew Leona, if anything it only improved the episode.

Now take this example into present day, I can't see using someone like Dawn instead of a new cotd for a filler type episode being anything but good. They don't need to delve into the fact that Ash already knows her, in fact, imagine in real life when you are introducing an old friend to a new friend. If you want the two to like each other, you don't just reminisce about stuff only one of the friends could relate to, you try to include both. In the same vein, an episode with someone like Dawn could take place exactly as it would have with a random cotd and not be off-putting to new audience. On the other hand, it would make literally thousands of people extremely happy and be watched by people who aren't even watching the anime anymore. If it is done frequently enough, instead of being an Alola, Kanto type nostalgia fest, it can just be a character in the series being involved in a completely new plot with very little set-up necessary.

Although times have changed, characters that were extremely popular during their original run in the anime were liked for a number of reasons, and there is little reason to believe the same characters wouldn't be liked anymore. It also is easier on the writers and artists because they aren't coming up with new storylines and designs. Sure some cotds have specific backstories, so you can't always substitute an old character, but in many cases in could work extremely well. I really fail to see the negatives. If new fans don't really like the old character, it really isn't any different than if they didn't like a cotd, but they do get a glimpse into a friend from Ash's past, which can be interesting, even to new fans. But lets say someone really loves Dawn in a return episode, then finds out she was a main character for an entire series, and goes back and watches it, I can't see that as anything but positive (well unless they decide they like DP a lot more than today's stuff and become as negative as I am...).

The new series may not even have cotds, but there still is plenty of ways to involve old characters, especially with every region being involved. I really fail to see any negative in involving old characters, and there are so many positives. That being said, I still am not optimistic it will happen, but I think it is worth stating where I am in the argument as to its feasibility.

-------

unless this saga is full of them.

What would the point in revisiting the past be if they're not going to be there? They might as well have only set it in Galar or just rebooted.

 

[Almonds]

What would the point in revisiting the past be if they're not going to be there? They might as well have only set it in Galar or just rebooted.

They're not visiting the past though...

And well... Gou and Koharu need their time to shine. Misty and Brock came back after the audience had a chance to fully warm up to the Sun and Moon cast. We barely know anything about Gou and Koharu. And I find it more likely that they give Gou-centric episodes early in the series than bring back characters that would distract the attention.

 

[Panky..]

They're not visiting the past though...

And well... Gou and Koharu need their time to shine. Misty and Brock came back after the audience had a chance to fully warm up to the Sun and Moon cast. We barely know anything about Gou and Koharu. And I find it more likely that they give Gou-centric episodes early in the series than bring back characters that would distract the attention.

Considering they're visiting the franchise as a whole and not just the new stuff, it's considered as visiting the past. I find it odd that you suggest they would utilize such a roundabout path and go through so much trouble just to not have past characters. And like I said, they might as well have rebooted the series if that were indeed the case.

I don't see why developing Gou and Koharu, as well as bringing back past characters, can't be done at the same time. It's very much possible. If anything, they can make both the parties click very well, hence increasing audience interest.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

They're not visiting the past though...

And well... Gou and Koharu need their time to shine. Misty and Brock came back after the audience had a chance to fully warm up to the Sun and Moon cast. We barely know anything about Gou and Koharu. And I find it more likely that they give Gou-centric episodes early in the series than bring back characters that would distract the attention.

I don't think having past companions is going to take attention away from the new characters. From the looks of it, the old companions won't be traveling with Ash and Gou. It seems to me like any past companions will mostly be tied to their regions. Basically, give Dawn an episode to reintroduce herself now, and then she can reappear whenever the gang return to Sinnoh. It's possible that the writers are going to make small casts for every region that will mostly just exist when Ash and Gou stop in that region. For instance, when in Sinnoh you can expect Dawn to appear, in Alola you'll see Kukui and the classmates when they return, and in Kanto you'll see Koharu, Sakuragi, Brock and Misty. Focusing on these characters in their own regions won't take away any more spotlight than a usual COD would.

One thing to keep in mind too, almost every important NPC in the older Pokemon games have appeared as characters in the anime, so to avoid including past characters in this series they would basically have to create an entire new cast of characters for every region except Galar. That would be a terrible move in my opinion as many of those characters such as Gym Leaders, Professors, and Champions are as synonyms with their regions as any physical landmarks (here's looking at you Cynthia). This would create a huge hurdle for them when trying to show off a region while meticulously trying to avoid showing characters that should technically be there. The best example I can think of is Clemont, his gym is actually featured on the series poster (with the gym marking over the door) and is basically the most important landmark of the Kalos region. They've backed themselves into a corner if it's really their intent not to feature any older characters while still showing off the landmarks they are associated with. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And a random side-note. As many of us have observed, it looks like Ash and Gou will be making a brief stop in every region early on as a way of getting people excited for the series. That said, the episode where Ash travels back to Alola is probably just around the corner. It will be crazy to see Ash returning so soon, but it will be cool to see him show Gou around. Now consider this, as we're being shown the Royal Mask trophy in episode two, and let's just say for example that Ash and Gou travel to Alola in episode 16, they have to show Kukui and the others. They literally have to. If Ash showed up in Alola after so few episodes away and didn't see any of his friends when he got there, that would be some twilight zone nonsense.

 

[RileyXY1]

This is only the 8th episode. It's too early to bring back old characters.

 

[Almonds]

They've backed themselves into a corner if it's really their intent not to feature any older characters while still showing off the landmarks they are associated with.

It's not going to hurt their business though. If they survived the Kalos League aftermath just fine, with people literally uploading pictures of destroyed merch, they'd be able to survive through not bringing back older characters. Dawn not showing up isn't going to result in an uproar and it won't hurt anyone.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I'd find arguments about old characters not appearing more convincing if Misty and Brock hadn't unexpectedly appeared in SM (Misty especially; many fans thought she'd never show up again). Just how much screentime they might get remains to be seen but I'd be more surprised if we don't get some kind of guest appearances than if we do. I am leaning more towards them using the early episodes to introduce the new cast and saving old faces for later, though.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'd find arguments about old characters not appearing more convincing if Misty and Brock hadn't unexpectedly appeared in SM (Misty especially; many fans thought she'd never show up again). Just how much screentime they might get remains to be seen but I'd be more surprised if we don't get some kind of guest appearances than if we do. I am leaning more towards them using the early episodes to introduce the new cast and saving old faces for later, though.

I agree that any old character returns would be saved for later.

 

[Panky..]

I agree that any old character returns would be saved for later.

It still doesn't make sense for both Piplup and Croagunk to appear in the same episode, in the region they're most known respective to the series, if it's not going to be Dawn and Brock's.

If they were appearing separately then one could have assumed they were not the same ones we know.

 

[RileyXY1]

It still doesn't make sense for both Piplup and Croagunk to appear in the same episode, in the region they're most known respective to the series, if it's not going to be Dawn and Brock's.

If they were appearing separately then one could have assumed they were not the same ones we know.

As I told you, they can easily have them appear separately. It's not like they have to bring Dawn and Brock back here just because Piplup and Croagunk are showing up.