Kanto/Johto Sequels

[Silktree]

You have got to be kidding me if you think that wild Pokemon are a better way to train.

The central theme would be Pokemon helping humans and vice-versa. Mewtwo overcoming its trust issues, and Neo Celebi learning the error of its ways, would go hand in hand. By the end of it all, Pokemon and humans would continue to co-exist with no one dying. Would that really be overdramatic?

The gym leaders would mostly be concerned about strange events in their cities or nearby. The player would help them and receive training experience in return.

Lastly, there is no consensus about SM having the best story. One of my issues with it is that the island challenge is pretty much irrelevant to Lillie's storyline, and it takes too long for the latter to get going. Everything between "Nebby gets kidnapped" and the climax is fairly solid, but that is about 5-6 hours of the overall playtime.

 

[Almonds]

If Johto coming back is a ever a thing, I hope they let us automatically register every gym leader the moment we defeat them.

 

[Silktree]

A reminder that SM have data for walking Pokemon. Also, oddly enough, Spiky-eared Pichu has a party sprite for the first time since HGSS.

 

[TheMonster6893]

A reminder that SM have data for walking Pokemon. Also, oddly enough, Spiky-eared Pichu has a party sprite for the first time since HGSS.

Hmmmm I did know the walking Pokemon were in there, but I had no idea there was code for Spiky-eared Pichu. That's quite the interesting tidbit. You cold argue many possible reasons for walking Pokemon, but the Pichu code is a weird thing to add unless they were prepping to bring it back. Why would they bring it back unless the next game had ties to it's origins? Signs are pointing towards some things involving Kanto/Johto. I for one will be pretty confused if there isn't anything on them in the next game. lol

 

[SerenaToAlola]

You have got to be kidding me if you think that wild Pokemon are a better way to train.

Um don't people train for the gyms by grinding wild Pokemon? I'm sure they can program the encounter rates such that you'll meet strong enough wild Pokemon to help you train fast enough if you just want to be strong enough to fight some epidemic. Gyms in the earlier games are also just benchmarks. If they don't fulfill any other purpose aside from being an indicator of strength then they're not important and actually a distraction from the story. That said, it is possible to set similar benchmarks within your epidemic story that don't involve gyms and I do think we have similar ideas in mind since you have further clarified that your story would involve assisting the gym leaders in their study of the epidemic in their respective towns/cities as opposed to actively seeking them out for gym matches. I think this premise works better especially when your story involves the player character setting off on a journey to fight an epidemic as opposed to you know simply being a Pokemon master.

The central theme would be Pokemon helping humans and vice-versa. Mewtwo overcoming its trust issues, and Neo Celebi learning the error of its ways, would go hand in hand. By the end of it all, Pokemon and humans would continue to co-exist with no one dying. Would that really be overdramatic?

What I found overdramatic was Celebi turning dark since it wasn’t really clear what the theme of your story is. It does make better sense when you put it like that though. That said I just personally don't like MewTwo and would rather we do something with Mew. Also are Mew and Celebi considered a pair?

One of my issues with it is that the island challenge is pretty much irrelevant to Lillie's storyline, and it takes too long for the latter to get going.

That's because the main story is still the island challenge and not Lillie's family drama. Notice how the game ends when you become the champion and not when you beat Lusamine? In fact, all the Pokemon games are like that, the point of the game is always to be the champion, the villainous teams and the ensuing drama that they cause have always been ancillary.

 

[Silktree]

BW's main story ended with Ghetsis being defeated. The player didn't even become a champion for defeating N.

I still don't see what the problem is with the gym leaders wanting to test the player. Would it help if those battles happened outside gyms?

That said I just personally don't like MewTwo and would rather we do something with Mew.

The two are not mutually exclusive, but I wouldn't expect a mythical to ever be a mascot. Mew's DNA theory would be explored if it turned out that Mewtwo was created to yield an antivirus for as many Pokemon as possible.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

BW's main story ended with Ghetsis being defeated. The player didn't even become a champion for defeating N.

Isn't the champion Alder or something? I completed the game but I actually can't remember much about it aside from Caitlin who is extra beauty. But if that's the case then I rest my case.

I still don't see what the problem is with the gym leaders wanting to test the player. Would it help if those battles happened outside gyms?

Well from how I see it, if the world is going to end and I am going on a journey so that I can stop the world from ending, what is the point of getting tested by some gym leader if it's not going to help me stop the world from ending? The gym leader could help me become stronger yes but there's just this sense of urgency that wouldn't allow us the luxury of battling with others. The gym leaders would also want to stop the world from ending so battling someone else would also be pretty much a waste of their time. There just doesn't seem to be time for "fun" battles when there's something so pressing to deal with.

What I can see happening in the event of an epidemic is the gym leaders having some problems in their respective cities/towns and roping in the player character to help out with it and awarding them with a badge for their time. This would make it slightly like the island trials actually but you know, it won't be for fun and games like in Alola. One or two of them would want to battle them but if all 16 does it'll be such a crazy waste of time, it'll be as if the gym leaders don't care about the world ending. All this would shake up the system too much imo. So perhaps it'll be better to just have the player character set off on a journey to be a champion as usual so we can have all the gyms as per normal and then have the epidemic plot unravel slowly as he bumps into Lillie through his journey, sort of like the way it happened in SM?

 

[StandbyForBattle]

I wonder how the Kanto/Johto thing might turn out, If the main story is in Kanto and we travel to Johto in the Post-Game, how will it work? What will happen to Mt. Silver?

 

[yoyokira]

A reminder that SM have data for walking Pokemon. Also, oddly enough, Spiky-eared Pichu has a party sprite for the first time since HGSS.

what the world, i actually looked that up and it's true, right there on bulbapedia

gen vii definitely has the potential to have remakes; i'm really thinking it's johto now but i'm still not sure, it could be anything honestly

maybe johto with kanto and then sinjoh ruins -> sinnoh? that seems like too many regions in one game (muh levels)

this is exciting to speculate because of all of the information we have at hand.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

I always had a joke idea for a Kanto/Johto sequel. You would play as the indigo league pokemart clerk's kid and you would have to collect all 16 badges in order to fight champion Joey. Take away the meme champion and it isn't too silly but I can't see them making a game with more badges instead of villians. Even though I'd love to see that. Now gen II did both but the Kanto quest was a post game thing and certainly felt like it.

 

[Silktree]

Isn't the champion Alder or something? I completed the game but I actually can't remember much about it aside from Caitlin who is extra beauty. But if that's the case then I rest my case.

The Champion is Alder, which means that the main story ends without the player becoming a Champion. So the primary purpose of collecting badges is to defeat N.

The gym leader could help me become stronger yes but there's just this sense of urgency that wouldn't allow us the luxury of battling with others. The gym leaders would also want to stop the world from ending so battling someone else would also be pretty much a waste of their time. There just doesn't seem to be time for "fun" battles when there's something so pressing to deal with.

You know fully well that there are going to be a lot of trainer battles no matter what. Most NPCs out there would not be aware of any danger, as the epidemic would be isolated at first.

What I can see happening in the event of an epidemic is the gym leaders having some problems in their respective cities/towns and roping in the player character to help out with it and awarding them with a badge for their time. This would make it slightly like the island trials actually but you know, it won't be for fun and games like in Alola. One or two of them would want to battle them but if all 16 does it'll be such a crazy waste of time, it'll be as if the gym leaders don't care about the world ending. All this would shake up the system too much imo. So perhaps it'll be better to just have the player character set off on a journey to be a champion as usual so we can have all the gyms as per normal and then have the epidemic plot unravel slowly as he bumps into Lillie through his journey, sort of like the way it happened in SM?

What I had in mind was the epidemic plot slowly unraveling, with 8 gym leaders being involved in strange events revolving around brainwashed Pokemon. They would not understand what is going on, so they wouldn't mind asking the player to battle them. But the player could have more information, and would care more about the strange events than collecting badges. But any battle experience is invaluable to a trainer on a journey.

So maybe the gym leaders testing the player is unnecessary, but I am not sure that giving badges just for defeating a strong wild Pokemon is the way to go. Regardless, the remaining 8 gym leaders would be post-game content, since we wouldn't even visit their cities during the main story.

 

[TheMonster6893]

I think one of my main wishes if a Kanto/Johto game DOES come out is for them to fix the Eevee evos move pools. They fixed the original three's pools for the most part, but the rest are still very much lacking. I'd LOVE to use Umbreon at some point, but it has so few good Dark type moves to attack with and the best Dark type move it learns only comes from a TM (Dark Pulse). It should be able to learn moves like Beat Up, Crunch, Foul Play, and Night Slash. Maybe it could even learn Sucker Punch too (maybe lol). Either way they should make the Eevee's more useful is all I'm saying hahaha

 

[Silktree]

Due to its low offensive stats, Umbreon's best option is Foul Play, which is a tutor move. It should be added to its level up movepool. More importantly, stat-raising moves would help it as a Baton Passer. Why not Nasty Plot?

It could also use a retconned hidden ability, but that seems unlikely for a mid-generation game.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

You know fully well that there are going to be a lot of trainer battles no matter what. Most NPCs out there would not be aware of any danger, as the epidemic would be isolated at first.

Yea but that would be ok since nobody is expecting some youngster joey standing around to be a contributive member of society. Gym leaders are different since they're supposed to be notable members of their community.

What I had in mind was the epidemic plot slowly unraveling, with 8 gym leaders being involved in strange events revolving around brainwashed Pokemon. They would not understand what is going on, so they wouldn't mind asking the player to battle them. But the player could have more information, and would care more about the strange events than collecting badges. But any battle experience is invaluable to a trainer on a journey.

Yea this works but I won't say for all 8 gyms. They'll have to switch it up for each gym in order for it to make sense and not feel monotonous.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

I just ran through all the Pokemons from first gen and here are the Pokemons lines who have yet to have any major change done to them all these years.

Pokemons that evolve through level up only with 3 stages:

• Butterfree
• Dragonite

Pokemons that evolve through level up only with 2 stages:

• Fearow
• Arbok
• Parasect
• Venomoth
• Golduck
• Primeape
• Tentacruel
• Rapidash
• Dodrio
• Dewgong
• Hypno
• Kingler
• Electrode
• Weezing
• Seaking
• Omastar
• Kabutops

Pokemons that evolve through stones with 3 stages:

• Nidoqueen
• Nidoking
• Victreebel

Pokemons that evolve through stones with 2 stages:

• Arcanine
• Cloyster
• Starmie

Pokemons that evolve through trade:

• Machamp

Pokemons that don't evolve:

• Farfetch'd
• Tauros
• Lapras
• Ditto
• Articuno
• Zapdos
• Moltres

So which Pokemon do you guys think would get an update if we were to revisit Kanto in a new game?

 

[Silktree]

You should remove Mewtwo from that list, even though I absolutely despise the Mega Mewtwo duo and want to see another form instead.

Dragonite, Arcanine and Lapras seem like no brainers for the era variant treatment. I'm also interested in Butterfree, Rapidash and Dewgong.

Mew should get a form with Protean. I'd suggest forms for the bird trio with weather-inducing abilities, since even Zapdos learns Rain Dance via level up. It should finally get Hurricane after all this time, and/or maybe an exclusive Water-type move (Cloudburst).

 

[SerenaToAlola]

Removed Mewtwo.

I don't know about this era variant thing but Dragonite, Butterfree and Lapras are definitely getting something imo. I'd like for Dragonite and Lapras to get Z-moves. Butterfree could get a mega to match up with Beedrill but it could also do with a Z-move.

Machamp could get a mega/z-move too. Maybe a Machamp belonging to Hau's father (whoever that is) would be able to use it.

I think it'd be cool if the Nido family gets a Z-move that they can all use though they aren't particularly popular.

 

[Silktree]

They can't get regional variants in their own region, and I just don't see Mega Evolution in the cards for this generation, since it is incompatible with Z-moves. Hence era variants, which are a cool concept - especially for a Celebi-centric game.

There is also the possibility of a an exclusive Z-move changing a Pokemon's ability, but I wouldn't mind it if that treatment were reserved for the Johto starters.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

I just ran through all the Pokemons from first gen and here are the Pokemons lines who have yet to have any major change done to them all these years.

Pokemons that evolve through level up only with 3 stages:

• Butterfree
• Dragonite

Pokemons that evolve through level up only with 2 stages:

• Fearow
• Arbok
• Parasect
• Venomoth
• Golduck
• Primeape
• Tentacruel
• Rapidash
• Dodrio
• Dewgong
• Hypno
• Kingler
• Electrode
• Weezing
• Seaking
• Omastar
• Kabutops

Pokemons that evolve through stones with 3 stages:

• Nidoqueen
• Nidoking
• Victreebel

Pokemons that evolve through stones with 2 stages:

• Arcanine
• Cloyster
• Starmie

Pokemons that evolve through trade:

• Machamp

Pokemons that don't evolve:

• Farfetch'd
• Tauros
• Lapras
• Ditto
• Articuno
• Zapdos
• Moltres
• Mew

So which Pokemon do you guys think would get an update if we were to revisit Kanto in a new game?

First of all, this may sound like nitpicking (and it is) but the plural term for Pokémon is Pokémon, not Pokemons. I apologise for that correction but unfortunately it bothers me, and I thought you may appreciate the knowledge for the future anyway.

From your list, Dragonite is definitely the Pokémon I want most to receive a mega evolution, or at least a variant. A mega evolution or variant for Rapidash would be great as well. Or perhaps even a third evolution in it's evolution line, if cross generational evolution were ever to be done again. Mega lapras would be another good choice.

 

[Zeb]

• Fearow
• Arbok
• Parasect
• Venomoth
• Golduck
• Primeape
• Rapidash
• Dewgong
• Hypno
• Kingler
• Electrode
• Weezing
• Seaking

These are the ones that really need something doing with them.

I was super disappointed in how they treated Parasect in SM - they buffed Masquerain by 40 points to reach Araquanid's level, yet kept both Shiinotic and Parasect at a measly 405 BST instead of making Shiinotic higher and then buffing Parasect to match it. It's also a much worse situation for Parasect too because Bug/Grass is such a bad type to have. It really needed an Alolan form to change its type.

Venomoth has a grand total of one animation in the games and it's not been seen in a regional dex outside of Kanto/Johto. I am beginning to think Game Freak hate it. It's not terrible, but I think it needs some attention and freshening up.

Dewgong, Hypno, Kingler, Weezing, Rapidash, Primeape, Golduck and Seaking all need some love in some way too. They just feel like relics at this point.