Mafia Philosophy

[Master Mew]

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What is your scumhunting philosophy? i.e. At the end of the day, what do you believe ultimately separates townies from scum, and how do discern it?

 

[HumanDawn]

I find the tone in posts to be really important, as well as seeing how players deal with situations in the game. It gives them characterization you can analyze, and from it you can get better reads on them. If the characterization starts falling apart or being inconsistent you can find Mafia in it. How someone replies and what they do is really important.

 

[Master Mew]

I find the tone in posts to be really important, as well as seeing how players deal with situations in the game. It gives them characterization you can analyze, and from it you can get better reads on them. If the characterization starts falling apart or being inconsistent you can find Mafia in it. How someone replies and what they do is really important.

So, in the context of the question "what ultimately separates townies from scum?" you find scum to fall apart and be inconsistent, while townies keep it together and are consistent?

 

[HumanDawn]

So, in the context of the question "what ultimately separates townies from scum?" you find scum to fall apart and be inconsistent, while townies keep it together and are consistent?

They both can fall apart, but as the game goes on and scum needs to be consistent while still trying to win I find that it's more likely they would if they're given more situations to give opinions on and act on, not Townies who wouldn't be hiding anything unless it was part of some plan, who would be really wanting to help their side. The less posts and content there is the harder it is to differentiate who is Town and Mafia. I find the tone to be incredibly important, what somebody says and how they say it can be very telling. It's not just only from inconsistency. I also rely on my Town reads to find who the Mafia is from the remaining players as well.

 

[Master Mew]

So, in the context of the question "what ultimately separates townies from scum?" you find scum to fall apart and be inconsistent, while townies keep it together and are consistent?

They both can fall apart, but as the game goes on and scum needs to be consistent while still trying to win I find that it's more likely they would if they're given more situations to give opinions on and act on, not Townies who wouldn't be hiding anything unless it was part of some plan, who would be really wanting to help their side. The less posts and content there is the harder it is to differentiate who is Town and Mafia. I find the tone to be incredibly important, what somebody says and how they say it can be very telling. It's not just only from inconsistency. I also rely on my Town reads to find who the Mafia is from the remaining players as well.

I guess what I find interesting is, while I agree that scum are more likely to fall apart under pressure (though townies still do it), my experience has been the exact opposite of yours regarding consistency:

Townies have a bad habit of being horribly, horribly inconsistent (Why? Because they have nothing to hide, so they don't bother trying to remember every thought and opinion they've expressed, so they tend to contradict themselves early and often) while scum, at least competent scum, are some of the most consistent players in every game (Why? Because they do have something to hide, so they're always thinking about what they've said in the past and focusing on avoiding anything that could even sound contradictory).

Scum tend to be more logical than townies, as well, since townies are going to be honest and say "I have a townread on [Player A] because of [Reason B]," even if they realize it sounds ridiculous, while scum have the luxury of making up their reads entirely, and obviously (again, competent scum at least) strive to choose the most logical, rational reads every time.

It's just interesting to hear different experiences people have had and how they've affected their scumhunting strategies - again, most of my experience is from Mafia Scum not here, so it's possible scum act differently on Bulba nowadays.

 

[HumanDawn]

I guess what I find interesting is, while I agree that scum are more likely to fall apart under pressure (though townies still do it), my experience has been the exact opposite of yours regarding consistency:

Townies have a bad habit of being horribly, horribly inconsistent (Why? Because they have nothing to hide, so they don't bother trying to remember every thought and opinion they've expressed, so they tend to contradict themselves early and often) while scum, at least competent scum, are some of the most consistent players in every game (Why? Because they do have something to hide, so they're always thinking about what they've said in the past and focusing on avoiding anything that could even sound contradictory).

The inconsistency is another thing I analyze of course, if it's understandable inconsistency that makes me think the change of tone isn't because of them being Mafia then I let it slide. If I pursue them for it and they respond in a way that doesn't make the inconsistency matter, or explain it to give me reason that it makes sense then I also let it slide.

Scum tend to be more logical than townies, as well, since townies are going to be honest and say "I have a townread on [Player A] because of [Reason B]," even if they realize it sounds ridiculous, while scum have the luxury of making up their reads entirely, and obviously (again, competent scum at least) strive to choose the most logical, rational reads every time.

The tone matters a lot in how the read is expressed to me, if it's a pattern I think it's easier to catch on. If a player is being too logical sounding and not being a bit relaxed it could mean they're trying to hide something, especially when they sound very logical and nothing gets done.

 

[Master Mew]

The inconsistency is another thing I analyze of course, if it's understandable inconsistency that makes me think the change of tone isn't because of them being Mafia then I let it slide. If I pursue them for it and they respond in a way that doesn't make the inconsistency matter, or explain it to give me reason that it makes sense then I also let it slide.

Scum tend to be more logical than townies, as well, since townies are going to be honest and say "I have a townread on [Player A] because of [Reason B]," even if they realize it sounds ridiculous, while scum have the luxury of making up their reads entirely, and obviously (again, competent scum at least) strive to choose the most logical, rational reads every time.

The tone matters a lot in how the read is expressed to me, if it's a pattern I think it's easier to catch on. If a player is being too logical sounding and not being a bit relaxed it could mean they're trying to hide something, especially when they sound very logical and nothing gets done.

So it sounds like it's really this "tone" you keep talking about that's consistently reliable for you, then - what do you qualify as a townie tone?

 

[HumanDawn]

So it sounds like it's really this "tone" you keep talking about that's consistently reliable for you, then - what do you qualify as a townie tone?

It depends on the person, which I learn from the characterization in the game. It would need to be sound natural by not sounding forced and make sense with the behaviour given.

 

[Master Mew]

So it sounds like it's really this "tone" you keep talking about that's consistently reliable for you, then - what do you qualify as a townie tone?

It depends on the person, which I learn from the characterization in the game. It would need to be sound natural by not sounding forced and make sense with the behaviour given.

So, to principalize your game theory: Townies are natural, Scum sometimes sound forced.

 

[HumanDawn]

So, to principalize your game theory: Townies are natural, Scum sometimes sound forced.

I wouldn't call it that, though I don't know what I'd call it and that's not what I feel.

Like I've said, scum will try to do what they do to win. I think tone plays an important part in figuring out the true intentions, you judge their actions, you check their explanations, you see how they react, thus calculating things from there. Those who sound the most unnatural or those you feel like they're hiding something or did something with bad intentions, you ask yourself if it's really scum, a genuine mistake or how they play. You pursue them if you have some confidence or if they just interest you and then you could also judge from there. If you don't find anything suspicious or weird and they end up flipping scum then they've fooled you, it's not like you will always succeed. Honestly it's just how the player comes off and what they did, everyone has different perspectives and feel things differently.

Edit: You find something that feels like it could mean something in somebody, you pursue it and if it still feels off you keep on pursuing it if you can.

 

[Doctor Floptopus]

Decided to revive this thread instead of using the situation room.

As a host, what do you think of graveyard subbing?

Personally, I'm happy with the concept if I'm struggling for subs and the dead player in question has no extra information, say, someone's claim. I count extensive private communication as extra knowledge, though.

 

[CrackFox]

Decided to revive this thread instead of using the situation room.

As a host, what do you think of graveyard subbing?

Personally, I'm happy with the concept if I'm struggling for subs and the dead player in question has no extra information, say, someone's claim. I count extensive private communication as extra knowledge, though.

I don't like it really but often it has to be done. There just aren't enough people willing to sub to avoid it. As long as the dead player hasn't learned any important info since their death then it's technically ok. I think it is still unfair on the players though. Often players are seen as more threatening than others in general. I remember being mafia in a game and me and my partners agreeing to kill Midorikawa because her ruthless playstyle was too much of a threat. We killed her and the next day she was subbed back in the game. In that sense it can be really annoying and not very fair.

As I said though, there's often no other choice than to bring back dead players. Better that than modkill those who ask to be substituted. Shame.

 

[Aestivate]

I'm okay with it only if it's veryyy early on in the game - otherwise I'm only keen on subbing independents back in the game.

 

[Almonds]

Decided to revive this thread instead of using the situation room.

As a host, what do you think of graveyard subbing?

Personally, I'm happy with the concept if I'm struggling for subs and the dead player in question has no extra information, say, someone's claim. I count extensive private communication as extra knowledge, though.

As a host, it can be very difficult to get subs, and modkilling roles isn't easy. As long as they don't hold important information, I'd say graveyard subbing is a good alternative if there aren't any other subs.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

My mafia strategy?
Cross my fingers and hope I don't die before Night 2.
...it doesn't work very well.

 

[Zexy]

What a way for ME to bump the thread...

 

[Snowy]

My mafia strategy? No lynch on day 1 because if a lynch occurs on day one, it is very likely to mean two townies are dead before day 2. Almost guaranteed.

As for graveyard subbing? If The War Room was bigger, I'd say no graveyard subbing... but as it is... I just think that as long as a dead player doesn't have information or insight that could tip the balance of the game.

 

[TheCapsFan]

As rough as it can be town does need a D1 lynch to get information. If that happens then it turns into MLP Mafia.

As for Graveyard Subbing I'm a proponent of it, but only Mafia players can't sub back in.

 

[Snowy]

As rough as it can be town does need a D1 lynch to get information.

You can't take day 1 voting seriously, due to all the joke voting Day 1.

 

[Slife]

I agree with day 1 lynches. Not only is the lynchee's flip useful for information, but the reactions to their flip/lynch also help develop valuable early reads.