Mafia My Little Pony: Mafia is Magic - ENDGAME! Town, jda95, and Sputnik win!

[Falconwing]

Something I noticed, were the masons Town-aligned? The game progressed despite mafia outnumbering the town, given that CMC were Independents and not Town.

That I can answer. Feli and I talked about whether they should be counted (otherwise the mafia would have won) but it was decided that since they could technically vote alongside the town and kill off the mafia if they so chose, that night it was decided to count them as if they were town. Then, for the sake of consistency, we kept that classification every phase after that.

After all, the indeps had to survive and the mafia was threatening them. Didn't want to ruin the chance at the fun of that. >:3

 

[Zima]

That was an awesome game. Mafia, I hope you have learned a valuable lesson about who to align with. XD

 

[Paperhorse]

Hey guys.

Both the mafia and the town were very active, which makes for a more fun-fulfilling game. Feli was great about answering questions, and she wouldn't let anyone be inactive for too long. She was pretty consistent with updating.

I thought that the original roles were very balanced. The hidden abilities were fun. It was when the roles were changed that things got unbalanced. For example, Mijz's role was way overpowered. One endless vigilante was balanced, but when a second was added late to the game, that was unfair. Four out of six mafia were nightkilled. That's a really unbalanced number. Things would have been much more fair if Mizzle hadn't been revived with a new role.

I thought it was really unfair how the mafia win condition changed. Our win condition was to equal the background ponies, which explicitly didn't include the independents. If you hadn't changed the rules, we would've won this game. I'm seriously upset by how things went. After we lynched Buoy, we should have won. We were equal with the town at that point. As far as I knew (at that point) our win condition was that we needed to equal the town in number, and after we lynched Buoy, we were going to win. That is the mafia team made the decision to ask the independents for their help. Of course we threatened to kill them if they didn't agree- although at that point I was convinced we were going to win because we were going to outnumber the town which was our original win condition.

Something I noticed, were the masons Town-aligned? The game progressed despite mafia outnumbering the town, given that CMC were Independents and not Town.

That I can answer. *Feli and I talked about whether they should be counted (otherwise the mafia would have won) but it was decided that since they could technically vote alongside the town and kill off the mafia if they so chose, that night it was decided to count them as if they were town. Then, for the sake of consistency, we kept that classification every phase after that.

After all, the indeps had to survive and the mafia was threatening them. Didn't want to ruin the chance at the fun of that. >:3

Do you think that this was fair? I think that this decision prevented the mafia from winning.

However, congratulations to the town and the independents for winning. It was a good game, even if I decided that I'm not going to count it in my win/loss because I felt like it was unfair.

That was an awesome game. Mafia, I hope you have learned a valuable lesson about who to align with. XD

The only mistake I made was the fact that I didn't realize that my win condition has been changed. And yes, you're right, I learned not to trust you. You would have ended the game sooner by siding with the mafia, and we would have killed you if we had had the time. Because you didn't play strategically (and to your best interests) I can't trust you in future games.

Which leads me to the question, why didn't you side with the mafia?

@jda95; I understand a bit better why you didn't side with us, but can you still explain it?

 

[KidBeano]

Just to add, Mijz said something about how we couldn't kill the Independents without losing - obviously, you counted towards their side, so by eliminating you, we could've won. It was foolish to think killing you was just an idle threat.

 

[Neon Borealis]

I have to agree with paperhorse in this one. The Mafía were just about to win and had done such a wonderful job, just to have it janked from them. It seems kinda unfair an biased to me.

But that's just me.

 

[Mijzelffan]

This is going to sound biased due to winning because of the changes, but from a hosting perspective I can see why Feliciano made the changes halfway through the game. As a host you have one goal, host a game as well as possible. This can be either be as neutral as possible, or try to make the game as balanced as possible. Of course balancing the game can be done beforehand, but you never really know how some things work out, which might mean three of the mafia are gone by night 4, or that the mafia wins with having no one lynched throughout the game. This might mean the game you worked so hard on for the past months is going to be cut short, which is kinda sad. With this game having 15 innocents, 6 mafia, and 3 masons who have no incentive not to team up with the mafia (unless the mafia proves themselves anti-mason by threatening to kill them), I'd say the balancing was off from the start in this game. Making the masons part of the town as the mafia's win condition is a good way to balance it out (though informing them about it might've been nice). Reviving someone as another serial killer is a more drastic measure, and a way more controversial one, though I also find it understandable to do something like this to make the game go on longer if there are really no better alternatives (like I did in bmgf mafia II when three mafia decided to just straight up reveal themselves at start). Pichuboy even said the mafia was planning on roleblock killing me soon. Knowing this Feli could've thought it wouldn't matter much reviving me like that since I would die pretty soon anyway. Maybe she didn't expect the masons to switch and thought the mafia would win anyway, and she just wanted the game to be a bit longer.

I'm sorry for the mafia it worked out this way for them, but I really don't think everyone should be ripping on feliciano for calling it unfair. She tried her best in making the game as enjoyable as possible, but a host just can't forsee everything.

Ignoring the backstabbing independents...

Well you know what you say, you catch more flies with honey. Tbh I really think they'd have sided with you if you had just not threatened to kill them.

Just to add, Mijz said something about how we couldn't kill the Independents without losing - obviously, you counted towards their side, so by eliminating you, we could've won. It was foolish to think killing you was just an idle threat.

No, I have to say it pretty much was an idle threat. As proven by Paperhorse just now, none of you knew they counted towards the town, which means you would've never killed them. Which again is proven by the fact you actually killed none of them.

That was an awesome game. Mafia, I hope you have learned a valuable lesson about who to align with. XD

And yes, you're right, I learned not to trust you. You would have ended the game sooner by siding with the mafia, and we would have killed you if we had had the time. Because you didn't play strategically (and to your best interests) I can't trust you in future games.

Looks like I learned Paperhorse is a metagamer. Also like I explained the masons, you were not going to kill them and they would not lose the game. They could side with whoever they wanted to since you would not kill them like I explained in the thread, and both sides would have been to their best interests. As you can see in my reply to pichuboy above, you were never going to kill them, just like I said in-thread you wouldn't. Not having a best interest anymore, they were able to pick whichever side they wanted. So guess which that side was? Right, the one that did not threaten to kill them if they didn't comply. Tell me you wouln't have done the same in that scenario. I for one know that if someone threatens to kill me in a mafia game they have lost all my coöperation, especially if it's an idle one like in this case. Moral of the story: want someone to side with you? Don't threaten to kill them.

What Sputnik did is completely understandable, not against her best interests at all, and really no reason to "not trust her" in future games.

 

[Phoenicks]

You raise some good points Mijz -- changing a game misplay can be acceptable. The issue as I see it is that the changes were made after the mafia should've won. It was a great game and there were no complaints until then. It just came off as unfair.

Nobody I've seen has been ripping Feli -- it's been very professional (and let's keep it that way). It's good that we can talk about what happened without upset.

To me, it looks like the mafia earned their win. 6 mafia of 24 is fair, and with the killing roles, 4(!) of them died at night. Until the end, the mafia hid effectively. It wasn't out of balance -- especially with some of their hidden roles (like clearing their rolecop checks).


It was a good game. It's just a shame that the mafia didn't get their earned win.

 

[Mijzelffan]

@Phoenicks; well personally I wouldn't really call 15 town and 6 mafia fair, but ok. Most hidden abilities were vote-related, and the copcheck thing actually turned out to be be helpful to the mafia, because everyone on that list was immediatly suspected of mafia because twilight sparkle was thought to be a mafia reporter.

Actually I don't really see why the win is so important. My favourite two mafia games I've ever played are ones I ended up losing. I'd rather lose knowing I played my part well than win having done nothing but sit around all game.

 

[KidBeano]

This is going to sound biased due to winning because of the changes, but from a hosting perspective I can see why Feliciano made the changes halfway through the game. As a host you have one goal, host a game as well as possible. This can be either be as neutral as possible, or try to make the game as balanced as possible. Of course balancing the game can be done beforehand, but you never really know how some things work out, which might mean three of the mafia are gone by night 4, or that the mafia wins with having no one lynched throughout the game. This might mean the game you worked so hard on for the past months is going to be cut short, which is kinda sad. With this game having 15 innocents, 6 mafia, and 3 masons who have no incentive not to team up with the mafia (unless the mafia proves themselves anti-mason by threatening to kill them), I'd say the balancing was off from the start in this game. Making the masons part of the town as the mafia's win condition is a good way to balance it out (though informing them about it might've been nice). Reviving someone as another serial killer is a more drastic measure, and a way more controversial one, though I also find it understandable to do something like this to make the game go on longer if there are really no better alternatives (like I did in bmgf mafia II when three mafia decided to just straight up reveal themselves at start). Pichuboy even said the mafia was planning on roleblock killing me soon. Knowing this Feli could've thought it wouldn't matter much reviving me like that since I would die pretty soon anyway. Maybe she didn't expect the masons to switch and thought the mafia would win anyway, and she just wanted the game to be a bit longer.

I'm sorry, but professionalism should come before the sentimentality of a game. If you screwed everything up and caused the town to not have a hope in hell of winning, then accept it and host your next game better. Don't mess with someone's victory. Feli should have thought about whether Independents counted towards the town's numbers or not before the game started, not the second before we were supposed to win. Hosts should be a neutral party and let the game play out with no interference not pre-arranged.

15 innocents vs 6 mafia isn't unbalanced. You can't include the Independents into the equation, because while it's true they had no incentive not to team up with the mafia, they also had no incentive not to team up with the town. 15 v 6 gives the town 4 mislynches, before they're put into a LYLO position (although, rather, with the independents counting towards their side, they actually had 5 mislynches, then they'd be in MYLO). You also had plenty of Hidden Abilities that gave you double votes against us.

We were thinking of roleblock killing you after you were revived, because we suspected you to still be a bomb, but then we thought we'd take the safer approach, since we knew all but one of the roles at that point.

Also, if we're talking about overpoweredness, you were basically an unlimited Jack of all Trades, and there was no indication that your role had changed upon revival. If that isn't overpowered, I don't know what is.

I'm sorry for the mafia it worked out this way for them, but I really don't think everyone should be ripping on feliciano for calling it unfair. She tried her best in making the game as enjoyable as possible, but a host just can't forsee everything.

Just to add, Mijz said something about how we couldn't kill the Independents without losing - obviously, you counted towards their side, so by eliminating you, we could've won. It was foolish to think killing you was just an idle threat.

No, I have to say it pretty much was an idle threat. As proven by Paperhorse just now, none of you knew they counted towards the town, which means you would've never killed them. Which again is proven by the fact you actually killed none of them.

We knew they counted to the town as soon as we lynched Buoy, as if they didn't, we would've won. YOU were the ones that assumed they didn't, because you assumed there were five mafia. Therefore, while it may have just been an "idle threat" to begin with, as soon as Buoy was lynched, it was true. I am a little gutted my teammates didn't go through with it, but oh well.

That was an awesome game. Mafia, I hope you have learned a valuable lesson about who to align with. XD

And yes, you're right, I learned not to trust you. You would have ended the game sooner by siding with the mafia, and we would have killed you if we had had the time. Because you didn't play strategically (and to your best interests) I can't trust you in future games.

Looks like I learned Paperhorse is a metagamer. Also like I explained the masons, you were not going to kill them and they would not lose the game. They could side with whoever they wanted to since you would not kill them like I explained in the thread, and both sides would have been to their best interests. As you can see in my reply to pichuboy above, you were never going to kill them, just like I said in-thread you wouldn't. Not having a best interest anymore, they were able to pick whichever side they wanted. So guess which that side was? Right, the one that did not threaten to kill them if they didn't comply. Tell me you wouln't have done the same in that scenario. I for one know that if someone threatens to kill me in a mafia game they have lost all my coöperation, especially if it's an idle one like in this case. Moral of the story: want someone to side with you? Don't threaten to kill them.

What Sputnik did is completely understandable, not against her best interests at all, and really no reason to "not trust her" in future games.

Can I just say, as far as I knew, it was never explicitly meant to be a full-on threat, or blackmail, or whatever. We offered them the chance to win alongside us, trusting them that they would hold up their end of the bargain - however, if they didn't, and instead decided to backstab us, THEN we would kill them in return. Idk if that's how the message got portrayed, but we never intended to say to them "Side with us or we'll kill you".

However, regardless of whether it was a "threat" or not, they agreed to side with us, and lynched Buoy with us, but then backstabbed us. That's undeniable, and definitely something to think of when considering who to trust in later games.

 

[Mijzelffan]

I'm sorry, but professionalism should come before the sentimentality of a game. If you screwed everything up and caused the town to not have a hope in hell of winning, then accept it and host your next game better. Don't mess with someone's victory. Feli should have thought about whether Independents counted towards the town's numbers or not before the game started, not the second before we were supposed to win. Hosts should be a neutral party and let the game play out with no interference not pre-arranged.

That is your opinion.

15 innocents vs 6 mafia isn't unbalanced. You can't include the Independents into the equation, because while it's true they had no incentive not to team up with the mafia, they also had no incentive not to team up with the town. 15 v 6 gives the town 4 mislynches, before they're put into a LYLO position (although, rather, with the independents counting towards their side, they actually had 5 mislynches, then they'd be in MYLO). You also had plenty of Hidden Abilities that gave you double votes against us.

Only we had a reckless endless vigilante which could've ended murdering several townies, you had a lynch immunity, etc. And I don't think any of those vote hidden abilities ended up mattering besides my own.

Also, if we're talking about overpoweredness, you were basically an unlimited Jack of all Trades, and there was no indication that your role had changed upon revival. If that isn't overpowered, I don't know what is.

Yeah Zecora was kinda overpowered (I think I've just had a deja vu), probably better toned down. I couldn't do everything though, I was not allowed to convert for instance.

We knew they counted to the town as soon as we lynched Buoy, as if they didn't, we would've won. YOU were the ones that assumed they didn't, because you assumed there were five mafia. Therefore, while it may have just been an "idle threat" to begin with, as soon as Buoy was lynched, it was true. I am a little gutted my teammates didn't go through with it, but oh well.

Well then you should've probably just killed one of them to prove you're serious, after which you'd have probably gotten support from the other one.

Can I just say, as far as I knew, it was never explicitly meant to be a full-on threat, or blackmail, or whatever. We offered them the chance to win alongside us, trusting them that they would hold up their end of the bargain - however, if they didn't, and instead decided to backstab us, THEN we would kill them in return. Idk if that's how the message got portrayed, but we never intended to say to them "Side with us or we'll kill you".

However, regardless of whether it was a "threat" or not, they agreed to side with us, and lynched Buoy with us, but then backstabbed us. That's undeniable, and definitely something to think of when considering who to trust in later games.

That is from my understanding how the message came across, and thus why the masons "backstabbed" you.

and definitely something to think of when considering who to trust in later games.

It really isn't. It's one game, which you lost because of multiple circumstances. Blaming sputnik (and jda?) for all of them and basically claiming you won't trust them again in mafia games is just bad sportmanship.

 

[Paperhorse]

I’m not ripping into Feli. It was a great game, and I had fun. She’s a good host. I was criticizing how I wasn’t happy with her changing the win condition without telling us, and adding an unbalanced role so late in the game that it was hard for us to counter.

Also, I do use meta on occasion and it is not a bad thing because it could provide us with accurate info. Regarding Sputnik and jda- let me be clear on this- I am in no way saying that in a future game I will immediately decide not to work with them because of what happened here. I am saying that I have more of a reason to be cautious. I learned in this game how wishy washy they were in important strategic decisions. Next time I play with them, I will be more aware of it.

 

[Meyneth]

Well, I had fun, despite how inactive I was. Thanks for hosting Feliciano!

 

[Phoenicks]

@Phoenicks; well personally I wouldn't really call 15 town and 6 mafia fair, but ok. Most hidden abilities were vote-related, and the copcheck thing actually turned out to be be helpful to the mafia, because everyone on that list was immediatly suspected of mafia because twilight sparkle was thought to be a mafia reporter.

I think that that has more to do with the play of the game than the balance. That particular rolecop side-effect was still negative to the mafia because it discouraged using the power more often. That's okay -- it's interesting and cool. It's also a good example of how the mafia had relatively simple roles to compensate having a large group. There are always complaints (I personally thought that Midorikawa's lynch resistance shouldn't've been a hidden ability), but that doesn't detract from the game overall being very balanced.

Actually I don't really see why the win is so important. My favourite two mafia games I've ever played are ones I ended up losing. I'd rather lose knowing I played my part well than win having done nothing but sit around all game.

In this case, I think that the mafia would rather win knowing that they'd played well than lose knowing that they played well.

The mafia played well and would have won under normal circumstances. The game was in autowin for the mafia when it hit 4 mafia, 3 townies, and 2 independents. Even if the independents had always sided with the mafia, they would have had to lynch the mafia 4 times. There would have been three nightkills where the mafia could have killed players; if they had killed only townies (as they tried to do), the final day would have had 2 independents and 1 mafia, making a mafia win. The ability to create vigkills made the difference.

The complaint isn't that the mafia felt like they deserved or they wanted a win. They would have won. Wouldn't you feel disappointed under similar circumstances?

I'm sorry, but professionalism should come before the sentimentality of a game. If you screwed everything up and caused the town to not have a hope in hell of winning, then accept it and host your next game better. Don't mess with someone's victory. Feli should have thought about whether Independents counted towards the town's numbers or not before the game started, not the second before we were supposed to win. Hosts should be a neutral party and let the game play out with no interference not pre-arranged.

I want to make clear that we're not saying that Feli "screwed everything up". She didn't; she did a great job, especially for a first game. The only complaints come from the changes that caused the mafia to lose.

No one here wants to make a fight. I think that it's great that we can talk about complaints. It helps everyone improve and creates a better section. Why shouldn't The War Room be the best it can be?

No, I have to say it pretty much was an idle threat. As proven by Paperhorse just now, none of you knew they counted towards the town, which means you would've never killed them. Which again is proven by the fact you actually killed none of them.

The independents didn't originally count toward the town's total. The independents (myself included) were "Cutie Mark Crusaders" and not included in the "Background Cast" faction. The mafia win condition stated that they needed to outnumber the latter faction.

Looks like I learned Paperhorse is a metagamer.

How will you use than information without metagaming? XP

Also like I explained the masons, you were not going to kill them and they would not lose the game. They could side with whoever they wanted to since you would not kill them like I explained in the thread, and both sides would have been to their best interests.

I won't comment about what the independents choose to do -- they have different information from me and made what they felt was the best decision. The best interests of an independent with a survival win clause are to survive, and to make that easier by ending the game as soon as possible.

As you can see in my reply to pichuboy above, you were never going to kill them, just like I said in-thread you wouldn't.

I won't be so presumptuous. The mafia could have killed the independents, and that would have caused them to lose.

Only we had a reckless endless vigilante which could've ended murdering several townies, you had a lynch immunity, etc. And I don't think any of those vote hidden abilities ended up mattering besides my own.

Yeah, you're right, since because your vote was doubled when the foals (jda95 and Sputnik) voted with you, even if the mafia had convinced one independent to side with them, they would've needed both to win. It's understandable why they're a bit upset.

Well then you should've probably just killed one of them to prove you're serious, after which you'd have probably gotten support from the other one.

We shouldn't tell the mafia what they should've done. The changes in the rules meant that this game's end was different from normal games.

It really isn't. It's one game, which you lost because of multiple circumstances. Blaming sputnik (and jda?) for all of them and basically claiming you won't trust them again in mafia games is just bad sportmanship.

Nobody's blaming them, and nobody's saying that we won't trust them ever again. It's just important to remember (as Sputnik herself said) that they can't always be trusted. It's an auxiliary discussion, and I think everyone wants to know why they sided as they did so that they can play better next time. I think that you're assuming bad faith when there isn't any.

I love The War Room and want to make it better -- don't we all? I think that it's undesirable to have games where the team that was going to win loses -- which is what it seems to me happened here. With 4 mafia, 3 townies, and 2 independents, even after the independents were counted as townies, the mafia would have won because they had 3 nightkills to use on the 3 townies, leaving 1 mafia and 2 independents for a mafia win. That didn't happen because of the rule changes. It's unfortunate, but not a cause for bitterness or divisiveness.

Feli did a great job. So did the mafia.

 

[Neon Borealis]

I agree with Phoenicks. Feli did a really freat job in here as a host. The only thing being thatoe thing at the end. But that is an oportunity for Feli to get better as a host and us to get better as players.

All in all, it was a very enjoyable game, even when I screwed up big time.

 

[jda95]

Time for a little bit of explaining of my actions in the game, considering how much controversy Sputnik and I generated.

Honestly, for the majority of the game I probably forgot I was an independent and not a town-sided mason. I was pretty focused on scumhunting to the extent that when Sunburn contacted me offering an easy way out of the game for Sputnik and I, I was calling "mafia" and thinking of scenarios of how he could have accidentally sent a PM to us instead of his scumbuddies (stfu it's dumb I know). But in this game, up until the last few phases, I was an independent. The fact that "we were threatened" or whatever was completely inconsequential to me. I was playing to win, and there was an opportunity to win right within my grasp. So I took it.

My reluctance to switch to town wasn't because of any kind of "loyalty" - independent pls. It's because I thought the game should have ended that phase or the phase after. As I expressed inthread, I saw the whole idea of us switching alignments again as a rather pointless act against the mafia in a game that had already been won. The one thing I regret is not directly confronting Sputnik and convincing her to switch her vote to help the mafia. But by the time I got to that point in the game, I was being badgered by people of both alignments questioning my actions and persuading me to do certain things, and along with the fact that there appeared to be a biased rule change in the middle of play, it frustrated me to the point that I didn't care about the game.

For the most part I did have a lot of fun with this game. It's just that the turn of events toward the end left a very bad taste in my mouth. I understand that Feliciano made a decision that she thought was best for the game and I respect that, but I'm voicing my opinion that those actions weren't necessarily fair. In my eyes, mafia deserved to win this one.

 

[Zima]

For my explanation, I wasn't sure about my alignment throughout the entire game. People were saying we were independent, but since our alignment was written in green, I had assumed that I was town-aligned. I agree that the mafia should have won knowing that I was in fact, independent, but you guys threatened to kill us, which made me lose your trust. If I would have known for sure that I was independent, I would have stayed aligned with the mafia.

 

[jda95]

For my explanation, I wasn't sure about my alignment throughout the entire game. People were saying we were independent, but since our alignment was written in green, I had assumed that I was town-aligned. I agree that the mafia should have won knowing that I was in fact, independent, but you guys threatened to kill us, which made me lose your trust. If I would have known for sure that I was independent, I would have stayed aligned with the mafia.

You are allied with the Cutie Mark Crusaders; avoid getting banished or run out of town to win.

Other than the green text, that all spells it out pretty explicitly that we're independent.

 

[Laterose]

Yes, the game was fun, and Feli is a great host! Mijz's role was a big surprise and I admit, I should have thought about the possibility of being resurrected as a different character (as crazy as it seems).

But I won't lie, I'm not happy about what I'm hearing. Rule changes in the middle of the game, without informing the players, concerning the win condition? :/ Not cool, man.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

To address some of the concerns:

Thank you all for being so honest, first of all I'll definitely take all your concerns into consideration the next time I host a game.

It wasn't so much that I was counting the CMC with the town so much as I was counting them against the mafia. I apologize to all the mafiosi that that wasn't clear, but considering that there were only 3 (well, 2 for the majority of the game) of them, I did not anticipate it making so much of a difference. This was an oversight on my part, as I was unsure as to whether indeps usually count against the mafia for totals, but once I made the decision I stuck with it for the sake of consistency. I did not "change the rules," I simply didn't make them clear enough, and for that, I apologize.

As for Mijzelffan's role, I borrowed it from Ryuu's Mafia of the Mages game. Originally, I had planned to revive him with his original role. However, to be frank, the town kinda screwed itself very early on. I gave him that role in order to give the town at least a chance of fighting back. I was aware that giving such a skilled player such a versatile role might be dangerous, but my logic was that the game would have been a lot less fun for most of the players if the town ended up getting swept. The mafia did a fantastic job, and the role was only intended to keep them from getting complacent and to give the town one last chance. I did not anticipate that the mafia would not even bother to check him again and confirm his role, so I figured that it would be safe to put in as he would likely be killed again soon. However, if I decide to use the role again in future games, I will find a way to limit it somehow. I'm very sorry if the mafia feel cheated out of a win because of it. I did not intend to make the game unfair, and I'm sorry that anyone feels that way.

That being said, y'all really need to read the flavor text better. I was dropping hints all over the place for both mafia and town, and no one was picking up on it. Did none of the mafia notice that I never mentioned the pony returning to be 'Roid Rage, or that every time a mafioso got nightkilled, they had just drunk from a glass of punch? Did none of the town notice anything odd about a party being thrown at Sugarcube Corner every night, or read the line "it's almost like these parties are a distraction"? I really did put a lot of effort into that flavor text to try and help out you guys, but it felt like no one was picking up on it.

One last thing. When Poyo first asked to sub out, I asked one of the players who'd already been killed off if they wanted to sub back in. They told me that, as someone else had told them who the rest of the mafia were, they didn't think it would be fair. I found this very odd, as they had been a townie at the time of their death. I didn't think anything of it and didn't ask any questions, but then right after she died, Paperhorse told me that another dead townie had PMed her right before the phase change directly asking about her role. Whoever was ratting out the mafia to dead players: not cool :disgust:

This was very much a trial by fire for me as a host, and I thank you all for putting up with my first attempt. I do sincerely apologize to the mafia who feel as though they were cheated; you all played beautifully, and I never intended for there to be so much controversy or perceived imbalance to the game.

Final thoughts for the town

Spoiler

Y'all screwed yourselves pretty early on, I've gotta admit. Neon Borealis' endless vig role was the one that made me feel okay with giving the godfather a lynch immunity, and his death was what in turn what helped to prompt me to give Mijz his new role when he was revived. You jumped on bandwagons at the smallest perceived hint of suspicion, and yet, when someone came forward with proof that someone was lying, you ignored it in favor of lynching someone else. I feel now like I really shouldn't have given you that second chance with Mijz's role, but I admit I was curious to see if you could turn yourselves around. It would've taken you three days to lynch off KidBeano if you'd decided on him (first because of his immunity, second because of Joltik's role, and then finally him), and from what I'd seen, you didn't have the patience for that. I did not want to see one side or the other get swept for the purposes of everyone's overall enjoyment, but perhaps that wasn't the best idea. Still, you eventually pulled yourselves together and managed to hunt down the rest of the mafia and pull off the narrowest win I've ever seen, though that's really due to the effort of a few specific players rather than through any sort of group effort.

Final thoughts for the mafia

Spoiler

I...honestly did not expect Joltik to live as long as he did, considering his role. That being said, your big downfall was failing to confirm Mijz's role after he was revived. I had to prod a couple of you to be more active at some points, but overall, you all played spectacularly. There's really not much more to say as a whole that I haven't already, except for again apologizing that the indeps counting against you wasn't clear.

Final thoughts for the independents

Spoiler

I admit I'm kinda sad that Sputnik's hidden ability didn't get to activate. That would've been kinda fun to see. After Phoenicks died, you two really didn't make use of your ability at all. I was on the verge of subbing jda95 out at a couple points during the game for inactivity, but it seems to be that inactivity is what saved him until he was confirmed as the final mason. There really wasn't anything stopping you from allying with the mafia, but I was rather surprised when you did for a phase, even though they had threatened you.

Ratings

Spoiler

@Sputnik; 3.5/5

Spoiler

I...don't know what you were doing for most of the game. As an independent, if someone contacts you asking for the identity of the other mason for the express purpose of not killing them, it shouldn't matter what their alignment is. Your suspicion of both Neon Borealis and Mijzelffan single-handedly cost the town one of its best defenses against the mafia and almost did it again. Still, coming out as a mason so early in the game ended up working out very well for you and jda95, and you did end up living until the end of the game.

@Sunburn; 3/5

Spoiler

Though you were good about using your ability every night, I really had to push you for in-thread activity. I was on the verge of subbing you out because of it a couple times, but you were very effective in using your ability. It was only when you tied up the votes that you outed yourself.

@Light Bringer; 1/5

Spoiler

You were...not terribly active. I don't think you even used your ability once, and you were the doctor. I was really surprised, as usually you're quite a reliable player. It was nice to have you in the game, but I wish you'd participated a little more.

@Soulmaster; 2.5/5

Spoiler

I'm not sure you used your ability to it's full extent. Again, activity was a bit of an issue, but not as much as with some other players.

@Parma; 3/5

Spoiler

What really confused me was that you didn't do anything with any of the information you gathered. You checked Winter Enchantress on Night 1, but then proceeded to do nothing with your results. You did break the curse of the Cop dying early, but you didn't really do anything to take advantage of it.

@Insanish Danish; 3/5

Spoiler

You kinda got bandwagoned for stupid reasons, but it worked out better for you than most. It's a shame you didn't get to take much advantage of your backup ability, but you were still quite useful to the town as a whole.

@Paperhorse; 4.5/5

Spoiler

You were a clear second in command and really took the helm of the mafia once KidBeano died. Your stubbornness of using your role to make people vote for Buoy made it a little less effective, but you did lead him on for most of the game and played very well.

@Andrea Luminosity; 3.5/5

Spoiler

You had the bad luck of trying to track people with passive abilities most of the time, but you were one of the most active members of the town and did some of the best scumhunting.

@Baron Dante; 2.5/5

Spoiler

There's really not a lot to say about your performance. As the miller, you seemed to be pretty resigned to dying from the get-go, and didn't protest too much when the vote began to turn against you.

@jda95; 3/5

Spoiler

Your inactivity meant that I was on the verge of subbing you out a couple times, but you managed to stay under the radar until you were confirmed as the third mason. You did hold critical swing votes near the end of the game and heavily contributed to the town's victory.

@Neon Borealis; 3/5

Spoiler

You really got screwed. Your intention was fine, but the backlash you received was, IMO, way overboard. You could have put a little more thought into your targets, and your reaction to getting outed could have been better, but overall, you basically just got screwed :-/

@Master Mew; 4/5

Spoiler

I didn't realize you didn't know anything about MLP when you subbed in, but you did a fantastic job once you got in the game. You were very active and had some great insights, and you really helped out the town.

@HumanDawn; 3.5/5

Spoiler

On the one hand, your revival of Mizzle single-handedly gave the town its victory, but on the other, your whole playstyle seemed rather weak. You were constantly asking others who you should revive instead of thinking for yourself, and you did yourself no favors in the thread to make yourself look less suspicious. Maybe next time a less confrontational approach would be better.

@KidBeano; 4.5/5

Spoiler

I have to admit, I laughed my ass off when I saw your reaction to your fakeclaim being an actual ability in the game :lol: Right from the start you were the mafia's leader, and even though you were on the radar for much of the game, you still managed to survive until late in the game and keep suspicion off most of your fellow mafioso.

@Buoy; 4.5/5

Spoiler

And the award for most aggressive scumhunter goes to you. I was a little confused as to why you stopped using your ability after the first few nights, but you were always very active in the thread and were one of the first to hit on the idea that KidBeano was scum, even if you weren't believed until later in the game.

@Bomika; 3/5

Spoiler

In retrospect, I probably didn't think your ability through as much as I could have. Still, you made the most of it, and were a very active force for the town until you got outed.

@Midorikawa; 4/5

Spoiler

It can't have been easy subbing in so late in the game after your role had already been held by two other people, but you did a fantastic job with it. You stepped into the game easily and played as though you had been there from the beginning, and you remained active right until your death.

@Mijzelffan; 4.5/5

Spoiler

Well, as the last surviving townie, I'd say congratulations are in order. You were saved by the fact that the mafia didn't even bother to confirm your role after you were revived, but you took full advantage of your role and single-handedly claimed the win for the town. You were a great active presence in both your roles, and were a big help to the town even before you got revived.

@Joltik; 3/5

Spoiler

As I said in the mafia notes...I honestly didn't expect you to live as long as you did. Even though your activity level left something to be desired, given your role and the activity of your fellow mafiosi, I originally thought that you'd be the first or second one to go. Instead, you last until the last few phases of the game. I never would've guessed.

@Phoenicks; 3.5/5

Spoiler

Can't say much here. You did make a great effort to bring the masons together and do some serious scumhunting, but you were vigkilled before any of that could come to fruition, and after that the masons...didn't do too much. Still, I told you you should've read your role PM better.

@Dark Blueberry; 2.5/5

Spoiler

Though being the day 1 randomlynch target is never fun, your reaction to it could've been better. Better luck next time :-/

@Poyo; 2/5

Spoiler

While I understand that real life always comes before the forums, I would've appreciated a little more activity. You didn't do much with the information you got from your role either, but you were killed before you could sub out.

@Laterose; 3.5/5

Spoiler

I found it really fitting when writing the flavor text that Twilight Sparkle was the last of the Mane 6 left alive at the end of the game. Though I've never played with you before, you seem like a fairly good player, and you were also the last mafioso to be discovered. You did a good job of balancing activity and laying low, but your downfall really was not confirming Mijzelffan's role after he was revived. Still, you played very well.

@Winter Enchantress; 3/5

Spoiler

I was a little surprised when, in the QT, you were planning to buck the doctor, but in your PM you ultimately decided to buck the bomb xD You got on the radar a little early in the game, but managed to talk your way out of it for a while. Your activity was good, and you avoided being at the top of most people's scum lists.

Thank you for playing, everypony!​

 

[Sunburn]

Eh, didn't end up like I'd hoped it would, but I still gained a lot of good experience and had fun thanks for hosting, Feliciano!