Old Characters in Pocket Monster 2019

[game3524]

It seems like we will see more prominent game characters. I hope to see more elite four members and trainers that did not get to appear in their own series (like Janine, Karen etc.). As for rivals like Paul, I really don't care that much. Ash beat him already, so it is hard for me to get invested in that. Same thing for Gary, I rather see him come back for Go's sake more so then Ash's.

 

[SinnohEevee]

You would think Cynthia would have mentionned Tobias when she came back in BW.

 

[Panky..]

Even just seeing him in the PWC but lose off-screen to Leon

You know what? I actually wouldn't mind Tobias appearing if he's only destined to be crushed by Leon (especially if it's one sided), would be very poetic.

Even better, have Cynthia go down to Leon as well (albeit, not so one sided) to really reaffirm how strong of an endgame Leon is going to be for Ash.

 

[Daren]

True, the lack of an upper limit and a clear motivation makes him way too “mystical” within the show’s consistency. If we’d gotten any insight into where the hell he came from or what he did next, we could somewhat compare, but instead we’re stuck in this limbo where the guy is on an unreachable pedestal because for all we know the Sinnoh league might have been either a long lived goal that took him sweat and blood to achieve or a quick excuse to skip the dishes over the weekened.

Like an analogy I used before; he's Freeza if Freeza never lost then just disappeared.

...wait, what was that last...

a quick excuse to skip the dishes over the weekened.

Hmmm...

Spoiler

Our scene is a suburban household.
Inside, Tobias is lying half dressed on the couch, eyes glazed over as he watches Sinnoh's Funniest Home Videos on his television, a beer can in one hand with a half dozen empties lying on the floor around him.

Suddenly, his wife enters the room, snatches up the remote and mutes the tv, standing above him looking down sternly with her hands on her hips.

"Tobi, you really have to get some of that work done around the house."

Tobias groans. "But I'm watching television. I think someone's going to get hit in the groin!"

"Tobias, the paint is starting to come off, the back deck's railings fell off, and the lawn is so overgrown wild Pokémon are moving in," she says, as outside the window a Glameow's tail pokes up from amidst the maze of grass.

"And of course I'd love to get around to all of that right now, but I..."
His eyes glanced around for something until he noticed the TV is now playing an advertisement for the beginning of the Sinnoh league in a week.
"...I have to enter the league!" he finishes.

"The league?" his wife asks skeptically.

"Yeah, hon! The Pokémon are really fired up for it, you know!" he said as he pointed to Darkrai, who was lying on the floor, mouth opening and closing like a fish as it stared at the roof, a touch of drool emerging from it's mouth. Tobias recalled it into it's pokéball as his wife glares at him.

"I don't think Mr. Battlus wants you entering a league with those Pokémon you're sitting for him. And the house..."

"Next weekend, sweetheart!" he calls cheerfully as he jumps up and runs out the door.

His wife runs up to the door and calls out to him. "Tobi, at least put your pants on first!"

Tobias makes an annoyed grunt as a passing ninety-seven year old dowager spots him and yells in shocked horror.

Even better, have Cynthia go down to Leon as well (albeit, not so one sided) to really reaffirm how strong of an endgame Leon is going to be for Ash.

I'd actually like Cynthia to be Ash's second PWC opponent, myself.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Mewtwo in episode 46 is confirmed to have the same voice as the first one from the original series, so we'll likely be seeing it returning.

 

[pokepal_123]

Mewtwo in episode 46 is confirmed to have the same voice as the first one from the original series, so we'll likely be seeing it returning.

The summary confirms it.

 

[SammyW27]

so we'll likely be seeing it returning.

That depends on how often they can afford Mr. Ishimura...<_<

I'm having Steven Universe flashbacks...

 

[SinnohEevee]

You know what? I actually wouldn't mind Tobias appearing if he's only destined to be crushed by Leon (especially if it's one sided), would be very poetic.

Even better, have Cynthia go down to Leon as well (albeit, not so one sided) to really reaffirm how strong of an endgame Leon is going to be for Ash.

Cynthia should beat Leon.

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

Leon would win against her.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Yeah, let's not kid ourselves: even if Cynthia is a harder challenge in the games than Leon, gameplay and story segregation is very much in force here. Leon is the World Champion, so it's highly unlikely that Cynthia would win against him, as despite being portrayed as monumentally skilled and powerful, she's never been portrayed as outright invincible like Leon is. She would definitely give Leon one hell of a tough fight and go down swinging, but Leon would be the one to win. So far, the only person that actually stands a chance at beating Leon is Ash, and even then that's only because of Protagonist Privileges (which Ash rather infamously doesn't benefit from as much as other anime protags).

 

[Daren]

So far, the only person that actually stands a chance at beating Leon is Ash, and even then that's only because of Protagonist Privileges (which Ash rather infamously doesn't benefit from as much as other anime protags).

If anything he has the opposite of protagonist privileges. He's one of fictions true protagonist underdogs because even the narrative is stacked against him. He was Charlie Brown taking another run at the football for twenty years, where each run at the football came at the end of a multi year football game arc.

Heck, even after the bone he was reluctantly tossed in Alola I think the only reason he might beat Leon is that Leon's a game character, and if they wanted another boss Ash never beats I'm not sure why they wouldn't just make another anime original character to do it. Plus Leon sort of has a thematic reason to lose per the games.
Even then for all we know Leon might remain undefeated or lose to someone else. I thought Ash was gonna beat him about ten months ago or so but certain developments so far have weakened my strength in that theory.

 

[Daren]

wdym?

Ash is now getting Bea as a rival who is a bit too perfect for sliding into the role of the rival he defeats before losing to someone else (Gary, Morrison, Paul, Trip, Sawyer) in the tournament.
It's not definitive, of course.
But we have a pretty long precedent for that sort of thing.

 

[Mew2]

For any Cynthia vs. Leon battle, I see the outcome being decided on whether or not any Sinnoh remakes are coming in the not too distant future. If not, then Leon wins with high difficulty. If there are, though, I see Cynthia either beating Leon with extreme difficulty, or them tying so Ash still sees Leon as his true opponent but knows that Cynthia is just as strong. Even more points would be scored, in my mind, if they have multiple battles where if Dynamax/Gigantamax is present, Leon wins, but without it (and possibly Mega Evolution and/or Z-Moves being present), Cynthia wins. That could show that they each have different strengths that Ash would have to overcome to get that step or two closer to becoming a true Pokémon Master.

 

[SammyW27]

Putting this here on the (very) off chance it means some old characters are coming back


View: https://twitter.com/pikachu_pcn/status/1321753757844078600


Though keep in mind those Pokemon could belong to new/current characters (that's most assuredly Leon's Charizard), be wild, or get caught by Goh. (Though I think I smell another Alola trip in the near future )

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Tobias gets a bad rap. I maintain that his comically overpowered team is the writers clever and cheeky way of having Ash lose the league while still feeling victorious. His very existence is proof that Ash was skilled enough to win after all. We knew he obviously wouldn't win against him, so it wasn't particularly disappointing when he lost (*cough Alain*), but the surprise of seeing Ash defeat two legendaries in a row was such an amazing feat that made the Sinnoh League feel much more triumphant than any of the others (until last year).

I'm sure it will never happen, but I have a dream of seeing an all-star rematch between those two, featuring Pikashium-Z Pikachu, Mega Lucario, Gigantamax Snorlax, Ash-Greninja, Blaze Infernape, and Naganadel.

 

[FelipePR]

You know what? I actually wouldn't mind Tobias appearing if he's only destined to be crushed by Leon (especially if it's one sided), would be very poetic.

Even better, have Cynthia go down to Leon as well (albeit, not so one sided) to really reaffirm how strong of an endgame Leon is going to be for Ash.

To be sincere, I would be happy if Cynthia kicked Leon sore ass. First, because Cynthia is way more cool. Second, a taboo break thing, a compensation for male hegemony in games and anime. Third, it would be very funny to see Bea, Raihan and many other faces when theirs unbeatable champion lose to someone who is completely stranger to them.

 

[Daren]

Tobias gets a bad rap. I maintain that his comically overpowered team is the writers clever and cheeky way of having Ash lose the league while still feeling victorious.

His very existence is proof that Ash was skilled enough to win after all. We knew he obviously wouldn't win against him, so it wasn't particularly disappointing when he lost (*cough Alain*), but the surprise of seeing Ash defeat two legendaries in a row was such an amazing feat that made the Sinnoh League feel much more triumphant than any of the others (until last year).

Honestly, AG gave me that feeling because he lost by a hair's breadth to Tyson but Tobias was so one sided I left thinking DP had Ash farther away from a league win than he'd been at the previous series' conclusion.

I'd possibly be less annoyed with him if it wasn't the last battle for several Pokémon who went out like saps.

Edit: I can understand the value of Tobias almost feeling like a wink to the audience but it didn't help with me.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

Honestly, AG gave me that feeling because he lost by a hair's breadth to Tyson but Tobias was so one sided I left thinking DP had Ash farther away from a league win than he'd been at the previous series' conclusion.

I'd possibly be less annoyed with him if it wasn't the last battle for several Pokémon who went out like saps.

Edit: I can understand the value of Tobias almost feeling like a wink to the audience but it didn't help with me.

I would definitely have preferred that he won, but operating under the assumption that the writers were not allowed to let him, I really can't think of a more satisfying ending to the league. Really, Ash should have won, so an over-the-top DEM is the only believable justification for him losing this time. Ash losing to a normal trainer after the amazing Ash vs Paul would just leave a bad taste in my mouth, and would make Paul look worse retrospect.

I really hate the "introduce slightly stronger trainer to beat Ash and retain status quo" trope, but with Tobias it's easy for me to subscribe to the mindset that Ash won in spirit at least. I disagree with the notion that Ash's Pokemon were portrayed as weak or "wiped out like saps", there's nothing weak about bravely facing an enemy that you know you have no chance of defeating, and I see this as a very mature moment for Ash and his team. The fact that they put up more of a fight than anyone would have expected is just icing on the cake.

Tobias is essentially a skill check for Ash. He didn't win, but he definitely proved himself, so there is absolutely nothing unsatisfying about this conclusion for me.

 

[Daren]

I would definitely have preferred that he won, but operating under the assumption that the writers were not allowed to let him, I really can't think of a more satisfying ending to the league. Really, Ash should have won, so an over-the-top DEM is the only believable justification for him losing this time. Ash losing to a normal trainer after the amazing Ash vs Paul would just leave a bad taste in my mouth, and would make Paul look worse retrospect.

I think the writers were in a bind, yeah, and I blame a lot of the shows problems on the league mandate since it meant every single end of series major win would immediately be undercut.

I disagree with the notion that Ash's Pokemon were portrayed as weak or "wiped out like saps", there's nothing weak about bravely facing an enemy that you know you have no chance of defeating, and I see this as a very mature moment for Ash and his team.

I could have phrased it better, but my annoyance is that ultimately four of Ash's Pokémon's last act in the series outside cameo appearances is being reduced to cannon fodder, which I think was a big disservice to them all in the same way you believe Ash losing to a random trainer after would make Paul look worse.
If Ash and his Pokémon's courage at facing Tobias unstoppable power went somewhere it would be one thing, but other than Pikachu they were all retired after, and Ash did worse in the next league so he didn't learn a thing or grow at all.

 

[Beatsy Ray]

I could have phrased it better, but my annoyance is that ultimately four of Ash's Pokémon's last act in the series outside cameo appearances is being reduced to cannon fodder, which I think was a big disservice to them all in the same way you believe Ash losing to a random trainer after would make Paul look worse.

I think it's a bit different for one reason, Tobias was built up as undefeated. No gym leader or league contender could even knock Darkrai out, let alone see what other Pokemon he had on him. Because of Tobias's apparent god status, a loss to him would be completely expected and not feel like a legitimate failure. Tobias is so much stronger than Paul and all of Ash's past opponents that Ash losing to him has no bearing on my opinion of those other trainers. But yes, it can definitely be unsatisfying if a Pokemon you like ends their career in a loss, however Pikachu, Sceptile, Gibble, and Heracross all impressed in this battle imo.

If Ash and his Pokémon's courage at facing Tobias unstoppable power went somewhere it would be one thing, but other than Pikachu they were all retired after, and Ash did worse in the next league so he didn't learn a thing or grow at all.

I don't think BW being a bad series should lessen your opinion of DP's ending. There's a reason why many people consider DP to be the end of the classic series, because BW absolutely fails as a follow up.

In any case, this is all just my own justification for Tobias being the best-case-scenario for the league ending, I don't think he was a well written character or anything. I think it's a shame that many people take him at face value and blame him for Ash's loss, when in reality Ash would have lost no matter what and the disappointment would be no different. I believe Tobias is the happy medium that allowed Ash to lose with dignity.