Old Characters in Pocket Monster 2019

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

The problem people have with Tobias has less to do with him beating Ash and more to do with the fact that he's basically a walking Deus Ex Machina: one would think a trainer that has a Legendary and a Mythical on his team would warrant some sort of buildup or explanation, but Tobias gets very little of the former and absolutely none of the latter, and although there have been other trainers owning Legendaries before, those have always gotten proper explanations, like Nolan explicitly befriending Articuno and Brandon being all but stated to have spent literal decades searching for the Regis. Tobias on the other hand gets absolutely nothing, and it's frustrating because a character like Tobias feels like he warrants SOME kind of explanation. I'd honestly accept even something as hilariously ridiculous as "Tobias is really Arceus in disguise who just wanted to mingle with those meatsacks called humans and enlisted a few Legendaries for help"

 

[Daren]

I think it's a bit different for one reason, Tobias was built up as undefeated. No gym leader or league contender could even knock Darkrai out, let alone see what other Pokemon he had on him. Because of Tobias's apparent god status, a loss to him would be completely expected and not feel like a legitimate failure. Tobias is so much stronger than Paul and all of Ash's past opponents that Ash losing to him has no bearing on my opinion of those other trainers. But yes, it can definitely be unsatisfying if a Pokemon you like ends their career in a loss, however Pikachu, Sceptile, Gibble, and Heracross all impressed in this battle imo.

Well, Swellow was one of my favourite of Ash's Pokémon, so that didn't help...

I don't think BW being a bad series should lessen your opinion of DP's ending. There's a reason why many people consider DP to be the end of the classic series, because BW absolutely fails as a follow up.

Eh, I've mentioned this before but I was unhappy with DP from early on and the ending killed all my remaining good will towards the series. Ash already had a lot of one sided losses in DP, then his big ending is another one sided loss, and his big win was defeating the rival they took careful effort to show was vastly weaker than Brandon--who he defeated in the previous series.
So honestly as much as BW failed to follow up DP I always thought DP failed to follow up AG. It felt like that's when Ash got stuck on a treadmill of non-progress to me.

Edit:

The problem people have with Tobias has less to do with him beating Ash and more to do with the fact that he's basically a walking Deus Ex Machina:

Yeeeah. Very few people hated Harrison or Tyson. Richie got some flack for seeming overly perfect and getting outside help from TR, though he's better received than the 4-5-6 club.
Now look at the post-Tobias ones; Cameron was hated for being an idiot who nonetheless beat him, and Alain was hated mostly for the bait around the league outcome.

 

[prog rocker]

The problem people have with Tobias has less to do with him beating Ash and more to do with the fact that he's basically a walking Deus Ex Machina: one would think a trainer that has a Legendary and a Mythical on his team would warrant some sort of buildup or explanation, but Tobias gets very little of the former and absolutely none of the latter, and although there have been other trainers owning Legendaries before, those have always gotten proper explanations, like Nolan explicitly befriending Articuno and Brandon being all but stated to have spent literal decades searching for the Regis. Tobias on the other hand gets absolutely nothing, and it's frustrating because a character like Tobias feels like he warrants SOME kind of explanation. I'd honestly accept even something as hilariously ridiculous as "Tobias is really Arceus in disguise who just wanted to mingle with those meatsacks called humans and enlisted a few Legendaries for help"

The term is "Diabolus ex Machina". A Deus ex Machina would have been something positive, like that one move Red's Pikachu used on Lugia in Adventures.

 

[Eclipsical]

I don’t know why they didn’t just give Tobias a somewhat normal broken team.

I probably would’ve given Tobias a Garchomp, Lucario, Magnezone, Weavile, Magmortar, and Rhyperior. Basically filled completely with cool-looking, powerful Pokémon, but not Legendary. Then have it be down to the wire, 1v1, and have Ash lose to Garchomp (Tobias’ ace in this scenario), a pseudo-legendary.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

The term is "Diabolus ex Machina". A Deus ex Machina would have been something positive, like that one move Red's Pikachu used on Lugia in Adventures.

Noted. Thanks. I didn't know there was a term for the negative version.

I don’t know why they didn’t just give Tobias a somewhat normal broken team.

I probably would’ve given Tobias a Garchomp, Lucario, Magnezone, Weavile, Magmortar, and Rhyperior. Basically filled completely with cool-looking, powerful Pokémon, but not Legendary. Then have it be down to the wire, 1v1, and have Ash lose to Garchomp (Tobias’ ace in this scenario), a pseudo-legendary.

Heck, why not give him a fully evolved Unova starter too? It promotes the upcoming Generation and also serves as a callback to Harrison's Blaziken, who defeated Ash partly because the latter had never seen nor fought a Pokemon of that species before and his Pokedex provided limited information on it, meaning Ash was at a strategic disadvantage.

 

[Fan of Jarrus]

To be sincere, I would be happy if Cynthia kicked Leon sore ass. First, because Cynthia is way more cool. Second, a taboo break thing, a compensation for male hegemony in games and anime. Third, it would be very funny to see Bea, Raihan and many other faces when theirs unbeatable champion lose to someone who is completely stranger to them.

Leon has his Gigantamax Charizard. He is cool because he stood up to a Legendary.

 

[nickdt]

I don’t know why they didn’t just give Tobias a somewhat normal broken team.

I probably would’ve given Tobias a Garchomp, Lucario, Magnezone, Weavile, Magmortar, and Rhyperior. Basically filled completely with cool-looking, powerful Pokémon, but not Legendary. Then have it be down to the wire, 1v1, and have Ash lose to Garchomp (Tobias’ ace in this scenario), a pseudo-legendary.

I wouldn't have given him Magmortar, Weavile and Garchomp, to avoid overlap with Cynthia and Paul. I would change Garchomp with Dragonite/Tyranitar, Magmortar with Arcanine and Weavile with Abomasnow.

 

[SammyW27]

In honor of the first year anniversary, I feel like doing a roll call:

Lance
Korrina and Gurrkin
Matori and her grunts
Kiawe, Sophocles, Lana, Mallow, and Rotomdex
Lillie and Gladion
Professors Burnett and Kukui
Chuck ( )
M1 Mewtwo

Referential cameos:
Lt. Surge in a flashback, with shadowy figures of the other Kanto GLs
Diantha on a magazine cover
A picture of Professor Elm
A photo of Lusamine, Faba, Wicke, and Hobbes

 

[Handy Man]

I can see there being an episode where Brandon of the Battle Pyramid tries to catch Regieleki and Regidrago. It probably wouldn’t happen for a while, but it would be an easy way to showcase all six Regis together.

 

[nickdt]

In honor of the first year anniversary, I feel like doing a roll call:

Lance
Korrina and Gurrkin
Matori and her grunts
Kiawe, Sophocles, Lana and Mallow
Lillie and Gladion
Professors Burnett and Kukui
Chuck ( )
M1 Mewtwo

Referential cameos:
Lt. Surge in a flashback, with shadowy figures of the other Kanto GLs
Diantha on a magazine cover
A picture of Professor Elm

You are forgetting Bayleef, Mega Lucario, Mienshao (despite it previously being a Mienfoo, it counts imo, since its most likely evolved from it) You are also forgetting his Alola mons as well as Lusamine.

 

[RileyXY1]

I can see there being an episode where Brandon of the Battle Pyramid tries to catch Regieleki and Regidrago. It probably wouldn’t happen for a while, but it would be an easy way to showcase all six Regis together.

I think that honor will instead go to Peony.

 

[SammyW27]

I think that honor will instead go to Peony.

It IS more practical for promotional reasons.
And that's the higher priority.

Though Brandon & Old Golems vs Peony & New Golems would be cool.

 

[Johtohfiller]

Though Brandon & Old Golems vs Peony & New Golems would be cool.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

To be sincere, I would be happy if Cynthia kicked Leon sore ass. First, because Cynthia is way more cool. Second, a taboo break thing, a compensation for male hegemony in games and anime. Third, it would be very funny to see Bea, Raihan and many other faces when theirs unbeatable champion lose to someone who is completely stranger to them.

Leon would win. He's the strongest Trainer in the world, and, IMO, Cynthia is way too overhyped. She's not a bad Champion by any means, I just feel that some people worship her a bit too much.

 

[FelipePR]

Leon would win. He's the strongest Trainer in the world, and, IMO, Cynthia is way too overhyped. She's not a bad Champion by any means, I just feel that some people worship her a bit too much.

Well, it is your assumption, not a fact. Leon certainly is not the best trainer in the world since he loses to the protagonist, not once, but several times. On the other hand, Leon surely is the Galar champion who for the longest time kept the title or remained undefeated. Beside that, I never said that Cynthia is a better trainer than Leon, only that I would be happy if she beat him. And as a matter of fact, not always the best wins. Take the actual Pokémon Champions, each year we have a new Champion and the Champion is not always the one who had the best campaign during the year.


Is Cynthia overhyped ? Probably, but she has good reason to be. She is a womanly powerhouse, the first female Champion in a franchise that initially didn't even have a female protagonist. She has a very cool design and a nice/pleasant personality. Moreover, The champion is suportive and helpful to the player, well as allows the protagonist take the lead in the key moments of the game.


By the way, is Leon overhyped ? Yes. And Why ? Because the game likes to ceaselessly remind us that he is the "unbeatable champion". Because Leon, supposedly, has awesome signature poses for photos or to entertains the crowd. And last but not least, because he has poor sense of directions, an anime protagonist cliche thing.

 

[Daren]

Well, it is your assumption, not a fact. Leon certainly is not the best trainer in the world since he loses to the protagonist, not once, but several times.

Which episode did Ash beat Leon in? Remember this is a thread about the current anime series, not the games. Leon is world champion here, not just the champion of Galar.

 

[FelipePR]

Which episode did Ash beat Leon in? Remember this is a thread about the current anime series, not the games. Leon is world champion here, not just the champion of Galar.

Yeah, you are right. In the anime universe, he is supposedly the best trainer. However, the anime tends to favor the current generation, so I would see it with a grain of salt. Yet, there is no certainty that all the best world trainers take part in the Pokémon World Championships. Cynthia and Steven, for instance, look more interested in Pokémon history, mythology, evolution or even world geology than Pokémon battles.

Morevoer, I watch very little of the anime, then my reponse was based in relation to my perspective of the characters in the games. Beside that, how anime tends to reproduce the game characters personality, features and etc... I believe that with the exception of the note above, all the others points arisen are valid ones.

For the last, I don't said that Cynthia is better or stronger than Leon. Only that, if she defeats him, I would be happy.

 

[SammyW27]

Oh hey, I got my wish!
They ARE letting someone out of the Never Animated Club with Wikstrom (though his movie cameo was cool)

 

[Silktree]

Wake me up when Janine or Karen is involved.

 

[Venomaid]

Wikstrom's a pretty cool dude. Wish it was Karen, Will or Drasna instead but I'll accept it.