Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (Gen III remakes) ANNOUNCED

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Explain.

The dual-slot mode, Pal Park and the ability to play the Gen. III games on the DS don't use Wi-Fi. Only thing that the lack of Wi-Fi will kill is the GTS and Wi-Fi battling because you can even still trade with a nearby friend without using Wi-Fi.

Hoenn remakes are NOT needed. They are desperately wanted by everyone, myself included, but they are not necessary as FR/LG/HG/SS were. In any case, I don't want another paired version of remakes. I want a remake of Emerald, just like I wanted Yellow and Crystal and didn't get them. I want Emerald so I can see the Weather Trio's fight in full 3-D, which won't happen if the non-Emerald versions get remakes...

Maybe not now, but definitely soon. Like @Fairy Type Arceus; was saying, when they remove 3DS' Wi-Fi capabilities, then Pokemon Bank and Pokemon Transporter will no longer work with 6th gen. Meaning that you won't be able to transfer 3rd gen Pokemon to 6th gen anymore.

But yeah, it doesn't really matter, they'll just remake it when they think it'll sell.

lack of putting my sentence together well what i meant was

if they follow old patterns and go with the third version followed by a remake. but they could follow the new pattern which seems to be break away from the rut they've been in.

since bw2 we've been off we thought pokemon gray would be next we were wrong, we thought the big announcement on the 8th was hoenn remakes we were wrong we think we're getting z/xy2 but we might be wrong it might be yes a third version but set in a new region or a prequel and maybe they'll forget remaking games unless its for something special like the up coming 20th anniversary.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

lack of putting my sentence together well what i meant was

if they follow old patterns and go with the third version followed by a remake. but they could follow the new pattern which seems to be break away from the rut they've been in.

since bw2 we've been off we thought pokemon gray would be next we were wrong, we thought the big announcement on the 8th was hoenn remakes we were wrong we think we're getting z/xy2 but we might be wrong it might be yes a third version but set in a new region or a prequel and maybe they'll forget remaking games unless its for something special like the up coming 20th anniversary.

Okay, whoever thought the big announcement last year would be Hoenn remakes wasn't thinking things through. It was totally obvious that they were announcing the 6th gen games on the 3DS, since Pokemon had remained on the DS two years into the 3DS' lifespan and was overdue for a transition (which required a new generation of games). Even the teasers they were making pointed to 6th gen games when they said "Pokemon will be evolving in 2013". Just how would remakes "evolve" the series? The remake camp was deluding themselves at that point.

Anyway, you have to consider the situation. 5th gen wasn't an ideal time for remakes at all, it was essentially a filler generation on a dying handheld and was bound to be cut short, and there wasn't enough of a difference between 3rd and 5th gen for a remake to be worthwhile. But now? We've got plenty of time until the next handheld, so there's room to include a remake, and the hardware and the gameplay mechanics are different enough now that a 3rd gen remake would be more worthwhile. Now compared to other things like Z/XY2 or Gen 6.5? Maybe, maybe not. It's pretty difficult to tell what's next, they could do just about anything. But I think the demand is strong enough that they'll probably do it.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

lack of putting my sentence together well what i meant was

if they follow old patterns and go with the third version followed by a remake. but they could follow the new pattern which seems to be break away from the rut they've been in.

since bw2 we've been off we thought pokemon gray would be next we were wrong, we thought the big announcement on the 8th was hoenn remakes we were wrong we think we're getting z/xy2 but we might be wrong it might be yes a third version but set in a new region or a prequel and maybe they'll forget remaking games unless its for something special like the up coming 20th anniversary.

Okay, whoever thought the big announcement last year would be Hoenn remakes wasn't thinking things through. It was totally obvious that they were announcing the 6th gen games on the 3DS, since Pokemon had remained on the DS two years into the 3DS' lifespan and was overdue for a transition (which required a new generation of games). Even the teasers they were making pointed to 6th gen games when they said "Pokemon will be evolving in 2013". Just how would remakes "evolve" the series? The remake camp was deluding themselves at that point.

Anyway, you have to consider the situation. 5th gen wasn't an ideal time for remakes at all, it was essentially a filler generation on a dying handheld and was bound to be cut short, and there wasn't enough of a difference between 3rd and 5th gen for a remake to be worthwhile. But now? We've got plenty of time until the next handheld, so there's room to include a remake, and the hardware and the gameplay mechanics are different enough now that a 3rd gen remake would be more worthwhile. Now compared to other things like Z/XY2 or Gen 6.5? Maybe, maybe not. It's pretty difficult to tell what's next, they could do just about anything. But I think the demand is strong enough that they'll probably do it.

well my knowledge of info on gen 6 before it was announced is limited as at the time i had just gotten back into pokemon with black 2 so i had no idea they dropped other hints towards it being a new generation, do they tend to do that before every release of a new game or just new generations?

 

[Bolt Strike]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

well my knowledge of info on gen 6 before it was announced is limited as at the time i had just gotten back into pokemon with black 2 so i had no idea they dropped other hints towards it being a new generation, do they tend to do that before every release of a new game or just new generations?

I think this gen was a special case, new Pokemon games typically weren't announced by Nintendo themselves. Of course, that could also be because we didn't have Nintendo Directs before. And the "Pokemon will be evolving in 2013" hint was posted on Twitter before the Direct was announced IIRC.

 

[RTA fan]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

my point was, pokemon moves were simpler before Gen 4. the pokemon had awesome designs and had a lot of moves that could cause serious destruction to the other team...

Edit: also, some moves helped certain pokemon prior to the p/s split. for example, bite was a special attack before gen 4. vaporeon learns this and it helped with the fact that vaporeon's second best stat was special attack.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

my point was, pokemon moves were simpler before Gen 4. the pokemon had awesome designs and had a lot of moves that could cause serious destruction to the other team...

Edit: also, some moves helped certain pokemon prior to the p/s split. for example, bite was a special attack before gen 4. vaporeon learns this and it helped with the fact that vaporeon's second best stat was special attack.

but it made no sense for it to be a special attack when bite would clearly make contact, and now i understand why my gyrados in my fire red nuzlocke wasn't doing much damage with bite

 

[Stratelier]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Edit: also, some moves helped certain pokemon prior to the p/s split. for example, bite was a special attack before gen 4. vaporeon learns this and it helped with the fact that vaporeon's second best stat was special attack.

This is true -- Jolteon's second best stat was also Sp.Atk so if you gave him Bite in addition to his Electric movesets you'd get much more Psychic-killing mileage than you'd see from Pin Missile (or even Shadow Ball at the time). It was also for this reason that in Emerald I gave my Absol Shadow Ball instead of Bite.

Other classic examples:
- Lance made you fear the Hyper Beam in Gens 1/2/3, where it was a physical move and most of his Pokemon (Gyarados, Dragonite, Aerodactyl) were also physically oriented. Now that it's Special, in HGSS only his Charizard benefits from keeping it (Dragonite still has it but it's about 30% weaker as Dragonite is physically built), and he doesn't even bring it to the PWT at all.
- Remember all those wild Gravelers using Selfdestruct/Explosion? Good times, good times. Even ignoring the fact that it was broken prior to G5 (having double its stated power for no reason) it was being employed by physically oriented Pokemon. Now that it's fixed, and made Special, those Gravelers aren't near as much of a threat anymore (their explosions do literally ONE FOURTH the damage they used to) ... on the other hand, it does boost exploding Voltorb/Electrodes by about +50%....
- Sceptile's Leaf Blade saw a 20% drop in damage between G3 and G4.

 

[Norzan]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Edit: also, some moves helped certain pokemon prior to the p/s split. for example, bite was a special attack before gen 4. vaporeon learns this and it helped with the fact that vaporeon's second best stat was special attack.

This is true -- Jolteon's second best stat was also Sp.Atk so if you gave him Bite in addition to his Electric movesets you'd get much more Psychic-killing mileage than you'd see from Pin Missile (or even Shadow Ball at the time). It was also for this reason that in Emerald I gave my Absol Shadow Ball instead of Bite.

Other classic examples:
- Lance made you fear the Hyper Beam in Gens 1/2/3, where it was a physical move and most of his Pokemon (Gyarados, Dragonite, Aerodactyl) were also physically oriented. Now that it's Special, in HGSS only his Charizard benefits from keeping it (Dragonite still has it but it's about 30% weaker as Dragonite is physically built), and he doesn't even bring it to the PWT at all.
- Remember all those wild Gravelers using Selfdestruct/Explosion? Good times, good times. Even ignoring the fact that it was broken prior to G5 (having double its stated power for no reason) it was still a move to be feared. Now that it's made Special those Gravelers aren't near as much of a threat anymore (their explosions do literally ONE FOURTH the damage they used to) ... on the other hand, it does boost exploding Voltorb/Electrodes by about +50%....
- Sceptile's Leaf Blade saw a 20% drop in damage between G3 and G4.

Explosion and Selfdestruct are physical and not special. Also prior to Gen 4 the physical/special made no sense, what sense it makes both Fire Punch and Fire Blast be in the same category? Fire Punch is clearly a physical move since it makes contact and it's a punch and Fire Blast is a ranged move therefore is special. The only moves that don't make sense now is Earthquake and Bulldoze, it clearly doesn't make contact and it's basically the same thing as Earth Power but i guess they made both physical to give Groud types a good physical move. Also Bite on Vaporeon and Jolteon is crap anyway and Hyper Beam is garbage since if it doesn't defeat the other pokemon you are basically a sitting duck for two turns.

 

[Stratelier]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Explosion and Selfdestruct are [still] physical and not special.

Okay, thanks for the correction. They are still a lot more survivable today than they were in previous Gens.

Also Bite on Vaporeon and Jolteon is crap anyway

Not for Jolteon. Combine it with Thunder Wave for one mean paraflinch

 

[Norzan]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Okay, thanks for the correction. They are still a lot more survivable today than they were in previous Gens.

Also Bite on Vaporeon and Jolteon is crap anyway

Not for Jolteon. Combine it with Thunder Wave for a mean paraflinch

They removed the halves the target Defense in Explosion and Selfdestruct in Gen 5, that's why it's easier to survive now. Also Vaporeon and Jolteon can learn Shadow Ball wich is a much better move than Bite for dealing with Psychic and Ghost types.

 

[Stratelier]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Also Vaporeon and Jolteon can learn Shadow Ball wich is a much better move than Bite for dealing with Psychic and Ghost types.

Yeha, but most Psychic/Ghost types are weaker physically.... grumble gripe

 

[Norzan]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Also Vaporeon and Jolteon can learn Shadow Ball wich is a much better move than Bite for dealing with Psychic and Ghost types.

Yeha, but most Psychic/Ghost types are weaker physically.... grumble gripe

But since Bite was special prior to Gen 4 it targeted the Special Defense and not the Defense, so Shadow Ball would be a much better choice now if Bite was still Special after the Physical/Special Split.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Also Vaporeon and Jolteon can learn Shadow Ball wich is a much better move than Bite for dealing with Psychic and Ghost types.

Yeha, but most Psychic/Ghost types are weaker physically.... grumble gripe

But since Bite was special prior to Gen 4 it targeted the Special Defense and not the Defense, so Shadow Ball would be a much better choice now if Bite was still Special after the Physical/Special Split.

crunch is better anyway >.>

 

[Norzan]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Also Vaporeon and Jolteon can learn Shadow Ball wich is a much better move than Bite for dealing with Psychic and Ghost types.

Yeha, but most Psychic/Ghost types are weaker physically.... grumble gripe

But since Bite was special prior to Gen 4 it targeted the Special Defense and not the Defense, so Shadow Ball would be a much better choice now if Bite was still Special after the Physical/Special Split.

crunch is better anyway >.>

Vaporeon and Jolteon can't learn Crunch.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Edit: also, some moves helped certain pokemon prior to the p/s split. for example, bite was a special attack before gen 4. vaporeon learns this and it helped with the fact that vaporeon's second best stat was special attack.

And yet more Pokemon were helped by the split than hurt. Dragons would be the biggest example, as well as ghost types considering their types were opposite of their best offensive stats. It's really not that hard to figure out what's special or what's physical. Whereas in Gen III, you'd have to have known each type's category, most moves are fairly intuitive even without the game explicitly telling you whether it is physical or special. It seems much simpler to split moves as physical or special based on what you would intuitively assume them to be rather than based on a rule that was never explicitly mentioned in-game.

 

[S-connoisseurCilanXZ]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

I am a bit suspicious about Mega-Latios and Mega-Latias, at first glance it should be quite clear that they are "hints" but I question why they the 3D models are fully formed and useable if they are supposedly for a future game. There were hints of extra Kyurem forms in the data of the first Unova games suggesting that they would appear but they were only placeholders.
BTW how on Earth did the discussion shift to Pokémon moves and Generation IV mechanic changes?

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

I am a bit suspicious about Mega-Latios and Mega-Latias, at first glance it should be quite clear that they are "hints" but I question why they the 3D models are fully formed and useable if they are supposedly for a future game. There were hints of extra Kyurem forms in the data of the first Unova games suggesting that they would appear but they were only placeholders.
BTW how on Earth did the discussion shift to Pokémon moves and Generation IV mechanic changes?

probably because unlike kyureem forms when they distribute these they're also going to be distributed for x and y and z if its out by then and not just hoenn remakes. kyrueem forms were new additions to the third version and couldn't be distributed to b/w but mega evolution's can so the codings already in there

 

[Ellron]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

The only moves that don't make sense now is Earthquake and Bulldoze, it clearly doesn't make contact and it's basically the same thing as Earth Power but i guess they made both physical to give Groud types a good physical move.

Actually, those two make perfect sense(IMO anyways). Earthquake is causing an earthquake, which is physically going to affect its targets. Bulldoze makes sense too, although I've never understood why it lowers speed. Earth Power could be seen as more channeling the earth's energy and blasting the foe with it.

Anyways, on the topic of remake discussion. It would be cool if... eh, my brain can't dig any ideas up right now.

 

[Dread Advocate]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Actually, those two make perfect sense(IMO anyways). Earthquake is causing an earthquake, which is physically going to affect its targets. Bulldoze makes sense too, although I've never understood why it lowers speed. Earth Power could be seen as more channeling the earth's energy and blasting the foe with it.

Anyways, on the topic of remake discussion. It would be cool if... eh, my brain can't dig any ideas up right now.

 

[Nowhere Girl]

Re: The Generation III Remake Discussion

Bulldoze makes sense too, although I've never understood why it lowers speed.

I always felt it was the Pokémon breaking up the ground, making it hard to traverse.