Organized Religion

[LadyBow]

I consider anyone who tries to make me accept their take on anything an extremist. I will listen to and consider what they have to say, but if I reject it and they still try to make me accept it, I would consider that extremism.

That's not really extreme.

Regarding religion, I would say extremist would be translating the bible literally and proposing many of the things it says in there (stoning non-virgins to death?) Also people like the Westboro Baptist Church and the FLDS church who practice polygamy and said the world was going to end.

I just have a problem with people who claim to be a certain religion yet are embarrassed by what they truly should believe and refer to anyone who follows it better as an "extremist."

 

[H-con]

Yay, everyone that's born in Norway automatically enters the state-owned church! Take that free religion!

 

[ii kanji]

@Kanji, if you think that a church with over a billion members counts as a small group of extremists you should just leave.

You've clearly missed the point somewhere.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what you're arguing here. One minute you're saying that everyone who follows an organised religion is dumb and ignorant, and the next you're saying "well actually, the extremists I'm talking about are the sort who follow it to the letter, not the majority" (which directly contradicts the above quote ), and THEN you say, hey the people I really hate are those who are embarrassed to be part of a religion!

And honestly, if you're "ignorant" enough to believe that all "over a billion members" of said church are extremists as you seem to be suggesting, I have nothing to say to you. You're clearly just arguing for arguments' sake.

 

[Barb]

...You obviously don't get it. I acknowledged there probably are some that exist, however they obviously are not large scale organizations. All the major religions with the biggest influence spread much ignorance.

@Kanji, if you think that a church with over a billion members counts as a small group of extremists you should just leave.

Do you believe that there is any organized religion, large or small, that does not spread ignorance?

Which is why we don't need organized religion. If you ask me that's all Jesus was about...just loving God and one another...not being concerned with these ridiculous rules instituted by each seperate church. I have found my life to be much happier, positive, and spiritual without religion tying me down. I don't feel organized religion practices love in any form.


You are completely and utterly wrong here. There are religions who practice love on a worldwide scale. Again, just because you haven't seen it or bothered to look into it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Also, if there is no need for religion to be organized then why were the first century Christians organized into congregations with a central governing body in Jerusalem? The Bible even states that God is "a god, not of disorder, but of peace." If spreading the gospel was so important, then some level of organization would be necessary to see that it was accomplished.

 

[Politoed666]

I've been waiting for this thread for a long time. Time to rant.

Organized religion is mankind's way of making themselves feel significant. Believing you are part of God's amazing plan and that God has a special plan for you and that God decided to create you just the way you are is far more comforting than believing that you are a compilation of elemental particles too small to understand arranged in a particular pattern. Believing that there is a man-ish red thing with two horns and a pronged tail who makes you do bad things is a lot easier than making the simple realization that "Oops, I fucked up."

Organized religion is a hate-mongering cesspool of angry, gullible fools looking to monger hate on people that are different than them. (Granted, not everyone is like that who is involved in organized religion...). Did you know that there have been more wars caused by religion than ANYTHING ELSE? It's true. Crusades, inquisition, more crusades, Iraq war (Not WMDs, religion + oil), etc. Religion actually kills more people than drugs do in modern times.

A shining example of what organized religion brings us: jesus-is-savior.com: Check it out.

 

[ii kanji]

(Granted, not everyone is like that who is involved in organized religion).

Understatement much? I can't actually believe that people really think that the majority of people involved in organised religion are complete arses! That's more ignorant that anything!

A shining example of what organized religion brings us: jesus-is-savior.com: Check it out.

It's funny how all you sceptics or haters or whatever you are only bring up examples of the crap that religion has caused. Sure, HORRIBLE things have been done in the name of religion, but the sorts of people who did them would have used any excuse! If it weren't religion, they'd have done it for something else.

 

[Snake Bandage]

It's all too easy to condemn all organized religion just because of the loud crazy fundies no one likes.

 

[LadyBow]

It's all too easy to condemn all organized religion just because of the loud crazy fundies no one likes.

THAT'S THE POINT. What you people actually are SUPPOSED to believe is ridiculous. If you believe the bible is the WORD OF GOD you should be out there holding up signs with them and telling everyone to repent. So instead you tone everything down and refer to better Christians as "extremists". But from a realistic standpoint you moderate Christians are truly better people because you're more loving than these "hate everyone else extremists". Because the more deep into religion you get really the more hateful and ingorant you become.

But if you're not going to actually follow the rules what's the point of being in an organized religion?

You've clearly missed the point somewhere.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know what you're arguing here. One minute you're saying that everyone who follows an organised religion is dumb and ignorant, and the next you're saying "well actually, the extremists I'm talking about are the sort who follow it to the letter, not the majority" (which directly contradicts the above quote ), and THEN you say, hey the people I really hate are those who are embarrassed to be part of a religion!

And honestly, if you're "ignorant" enough to believe that all "over a billion members" of said church are extremists as you seem to be suggesting, I have nothing to say to you. You're clearly just arguing for arguments' sake.

Wrong. I'm arguing that organized religion is a bad thing. You 100% missed my point in that those people AREN'T extreme. My point is that everyone else is a total hypocrite for referring to anyone in THEIR OWN church that actually follows part of its teachings as an "extremist" like some people in this thread have been doing. And even the people you refer to as "extremists" don't follow most of the rules. Then the next level are people who really are extreme like the Westboro Baptist Church who go out protesting and telling everyone they're going to hell in a handbasket and just being lunatics.

Except the sad thing is those people are actually following the bible better than you guys, and you call them crazy too.

The bible is just a book of ontradiction. If Christians could actually practice the core concept of "love one another" organized religion would be amazing. Except that is impossible and it's never going to happen.

So until then religious people are just ignorant and wrapped in their own little bubble. And all the others just don't really follow their religion so they're just hypocrites. It's a lose-lose situation.

 

[Dictionary]

I identify myself as a secular humanist. I don't believe that people need God or religion to be the best they can be or to contribute to the world. I disagree with many tenets of most religions and I'm extremely skeptical.

However, you are making gross generalizations that are, frankly, insulting to those who are involved in major religion. Religion is a double-edged sword in every sense of the phrase; some people choose to use it in the name of good and improving life on earth and others choose to use it for their own agenda. To judge billions of people when there is such disparity present in organized religion...that is simply ridiculous.

I know many people who are highly religious and are some of the most loving, generous people I have had the fortune to meet in my life. I have occasionally come across the crazy follower, yes, but they are few and far in between.

Case in point? Please think before you speak.

 

[Valdez]

I'm an atheist, but I respect the comfort that religion gives to people. I would deny however that atheism itself is a religion, as somebody earlier argued. In my view, religion and belief in a deity/deities was created by people all those centuries ago because they couldn't grasp or deal with the idea of their own mortality. And supposing there is a God, who's to say that any of Christianity, Islam, or Judaism are "the right path"? Maybe the pagans were right; or Scientology.

But then, that's just my opinion on the matter of religion, and while I may speak of my views I certainly won;t force anyone else to accept them.

 

[TTEchidna]

As Beghe said, "If Scientology's right, then something's fucked up."

The thing I hate about organized religion? There's one person serving as the leader, telling everyone else what to think, rather than discussions on what people take things in their life to mean. I know, it's ridiculously hard even in a small town, where churches can have hundreds of people in each mass, but... then not everyone gets a chance to be included, and lemme tell ya, shit feels a lot better after you discuss it in a group than sitting alone thinking to yourself because you can't exactly stand up in church and shout your opinion...

 

[ii kanji]

But if you're not going to actually follow the rules what's the point of being in an organized religion?

Most religions are pretty damn old. Everyone has moved on from some of the dumb rules written way back when. TBH, I think you're just being silly by saying that we should take everything in the Bible literally.

I know, it's ridiculously hard even in a small town, where churches can have hundreds of people in each mass, but... then not everyone gets a chance to be included, and lemme tell ya, shit feels a lot better after you discuss it in a group than sitting alone thinking to yourself because you can't exactly stand up in church and shout your opinion...

The thing is, as you said, it's nigh impossible to get discussions like this going on in church or whatever, but it doesn't stop people from discussing it with family or friends. Granted, it doesn't make a difference to religion as a whole, but what everyone seems to fail to realise is that religion means something different to everyone. So working things out for yourself is just as important as the Pope clarifying that we shouldn't be stoning people to death.

What Lady Bow (from what I can make out) seems to be suggesting is that we should be following religion blindly, and not doing so makes one a hypocrite. Yup, that makes lots of sense ;-)

 

[Barb]

I've been waiting for this thread for a long time. Time to rant.

Organized religion is mankind's way of making themselves feel significant. Believing you are part of God's amazing plan and that God has a special plan for you and that God decided to create you just the way you are is far more comforting than believing that you are a compilation of elemental particles too small to understand arranged in a particular pattern.

I have a newsflash for you: not all organized religion is based on the theory that it's comforting. Do I believe that God has a plan? Yes. Do I believe that God has a special plan for me? No.

You are aware that gross oversimplification and generalization is a logical fallacy, right?

Believing that there is a man-ish red thing with two horns and a pronged tail who makes you do bad things is a lot easier than making the simple realization that "Oops, I fucked up."

My religion does not teach the doctrine of hellfire; for that matter, Hinduism doesn't teach this, either. Again, oversimplification and generalization.

Organized religion is a hate-mongering cesspool of angry, gullible fools looking to monger hate on people that are different than them. (Granted, not everyone is like that who is involved in organized religion...).

Okay, at least you've acknowledged that your post is, for the most part, a rant unsupported by actual evidence.

Did you know that there have been more wars caused by religion than ANYTHING ELSE? It's true. Crusades, inquisition, more crusades, Iraq war (Not WMDs, religion + oil), etc. Religion actually kills more people than drugs do in modern times.

"The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression, published by Harvard University Press, is the work of eleven scholars that ignited a continental firestorm when it first hit bookstores in France in 1997. The authors estimate the century's death toll at the hands of Communist governments (excluding wars) at 100 million people. Country by country, deaths by the state in China stand at 65 million, in the USSR 20 million, Vietnam 1 million, North Korea 2 million, Cambodia 2 million, Eastern Europe 1 million, Latin America 150,000, Africa 1.7 million, and Afghanistan 1.5 million. Additionally, the international Communist movement murdered about 10,000 people throughout the world." (Author's emphasis).

(Daniel J Flynn, "Ideas Have Consequences... Like Murder, Tyranny, and Repression," Accuracy in Academia, <http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2000/March_2000_4.html> (9 July, 2008).

The death toll for the Crusades, by contrast, is approximately 1.5 million.

A shining example of what organized religion brings us: jesus-is-savior.com: Check it out.

Non sequitur.

You know, Jesus himself indicated that there were problems in organized religion (namely, the Pharisees) and he rightly condemned them. Your rant, while based more on blind hatred than facts, ignores that there is good in organized religion.

 

[NeonTidalWave]

I hate the way organised religion gets branded by the masses sometimes. We're not all 'sheep'. A lot of us acknowledge that for each individual their beliefs will be different. But we can still discuss, explore and contemplate religious ideas the same way scientists can discuss, explore and contemplate thesis although they won't all agree.


At the same time, and I know this is a generalisation, and based on my personal experiences, not anyone else's; but I find it is Atheists who are far more beligerant than believers, constantly nagging me as to why I believe, how I am wrong, and that I am a 'sheep'. I'm yet to see, outside of the publicised 'extremists' the media makes us all out to be, a religious person berate an Atheist for their lack of faith.

I try not to be too self-righteous about my faith, and I think it is good and healthy to be able to laugh at any part of yourself, including religion (for example, if anyone has seen the film 'Dogma', they'll know what I mean), so don't interperet this rant as a 'bible-nut' gone wild.
;-)

 

[ii kanji]

At the same time, and I know this is a generalisation, and based on my personal experiences, not anyone else's; but I find it is Atheists who are far more beligerant than believers, constantly nagging me as to why I believe, how I am wrong, and that I am a 'sheep'. I'm yet to see, outside of the publicised 'extremists' the media makes us all out to be, a religious person berate an Atheist for their lack of faith.

QFT. This happens to me so much more than it ought to ¬_¬

 

[Barb]

The only really belligerent atheists I've come across have been online.

 

[ii kanji]

Really? I know far too many IRL.

 

[NeonTidalWave]

The only really belligerent atheists I've come across have been online.

Most of the belligerent anythings are found online.
;-)

 

[Barb]

Yeah, thanks to the layer of anonymity from the Internet.

 

[TTEchidna]

Pool's closed?

You know, organized religion... is really kind of the same as any organization led by humans. We all put too much stock in our leadership and don't look into anything, just accepting what's said. Doesn't mean just pastors and preachers, but politicians, too.

Fact is, there's always a chance some asshole could come in and use the power of his followers to harm others, no matter what it is. We all just need to step back and make sure we don't fall for stuff like that... which is itself really hard not to do.

It's just too bad those who will most follow their leaders unquestioningly are the people who don't visit this forum (and likely don't have very much of an education themselves). The eternal paradox, eh? A fight against corrupt leadership has its own, corruptable, leadership.