BDSP Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

[Phosphene]

I think it's a little bit disrespectful to even be creating stuff like this while the real thing is being made, too. It's like if Rowling was still writing her last book and some fans decided they didn't like what they knew about it so far and decided to write an unofficial seventh book as the "real thing".

I don't think there's anything disrespectful about producing an alternate interpretation of a work of art. Do you think satire and fanart is disrespectful as well? And, to my knowledge, the original artist never tried to pass this off as the "real thing."

 

[Cute Charm]

Am I the only one who thinks that the human in battle charaters look a little funky?

On one hand, at least they don't look sunburned like the LGPE protags did.

But on the other hand...yeah no, they still look off.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I personally don't like things like this. It's basically denying the official/real stuff in favor of something that'll never really happen. I recognize the effort put into it, sure, but I'll stick with the official games myself.

Perhaps it would be more positive if fans did animation projects inspired by the real games, rather than as alternatives. For example, someone could do a "What if ILCA remade Black and White?" and re-create Unova in the 3D chibi style.

I think it's a little bit disrespectful to even be creating stuff like this while the real thing is being made, too. It's like if Rowling was still writing her last book and some fans decided they didn't like what they knew about it so far and decided to write an unofficial seventh book as the "real thing".

The creator aren’t advertising it as an alternative to the actual games, are they? They’re just exercising their creativity and creating a derivative work based on the originals. Do you all think it’s this disrespectful when someone creates a Fakemon? Because it works on the same principle. Or fanart of any Pokémon really. Quite frankly it’s a toxic and pessimistic take on the work people put into this.

One of the main criticisms I also saw behind these was "It’s just a trailer, it is unjustified to compare it to GameFreak's games!" + some extra points to make it seem like that the artist is being disrespectful. These are simple "It could be like that!" Alternate take an innocent guy did to show off their skills. Dismissing it like that, is again toxic, specially since these creators are independent, work alone and with a budget that’s on the order of 0.00000001% of what GameFreak puts into their releases. I think their effort should be celebrated and cheered on instead of people thinking of it as a games replacement or branding it as "disrespectful" just because someone dared to have a different (hypothetical) vision for the games and actually had the artistic ability to execute it in a sheer fraction of the budget.

These creators should be encouraged and celebrated since with correct resources, they might have a future in the video game industry, and people shouldn’t get defensive just because they dared to do it differently than GameFreak does.

 

[swiftgallade46]

The creator aren’t advertising it as an alternative to the actual games, are they? They’re just exercising their creativity and creating a derivative work based on the originals. Do you all think it’s this disrespectful when someone creates a Fakemon? Because it works on the same principle. Or fanart of any Pokémon really. Quite frankly it’s a toxic and pessimistic take on the work people put into this.

One of the main criticisms I also saw behind these was "It’s just a trailer, it is unjustified to compare it to GameFreak's games!" + some extra points to make it seem like that the artist is being disrespectful. These are simple "It could be like that!" Alternate take an innocent guy did to show off their skills. Dismissing it like that, is again toxic, specially since these creators are independent, work alone and with a budget that’s on the order of 0.00000001% of what GameFreak puts into their releases. I think their effort should be celebrated and cheered on instead of people thinking of it as a games replacement or branding it as "disrespectful" just because someone dared to have a different (hypothetical) vision for the games and actually had the artistic ability to execute it in a sheer fraction of the budget.

These creators should be encouraged and celebrated since with correct resources, they might have a future in the video game industry, and people shouldn’t get defensive just because they dared to do it differently than GameFreak does.

I almost fully agree except for the part about comparing it to a full game. That is actually mostly done in response to people who say that GameFreak (ILCA) is doing a worse job at game development than these independent creators. It’s just a false equivalence. It’s not inherently toxic or dismissive to say that this isn’t a full game. You can still enjoy it for what it is while acknowledging that fact.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I almost fully agree except for the part about comparing it to a full game. That is actually mostly done in response to people who say that GameFreak (ILCA) is doing a worse job at game development than these independent creators. It’s just a false equivalence. It’s not inherently toxic or dismissive to say that this isn’t a full game. You can still enjoy it for what it is while acknowledging that fact.

I do think it cannot be compared to a full game, but the way people phrase it isn’t really polite to the creator and sometimes flat out dismissive to them when they don’t even advertise it as an alternative to the game. People can definitely phrase it better.

The notion that people creating derivative works when the "real thing exists" is disrespectful is... Mind boggling. Why would you create new art of the already existing Pokémon when the "real thing exists"? Or why would you create Fakemon if the "real thing exists?" Why would someone create a fanfic if the "real thing exists"? Just because it makes someone feel defensive on the actual games doesn’t mean it’s disrespectful. Never mind that the small creator will never get access to the huge budget game studios use or release a game.

And again, the two cannot be directly compared anyways. I find this notion of thinking weird, and ironically disrespectful to the creators who spend their entire days and nights on a limited budget turning the ideas fans dreamt of (which GF is unlikely to bring to reality due to their own visions so there’s no overlap) into some semblance of reality.

"it’s just a trailer mock-up and not an actual game" is a valid concern to be pointed out against people who use these works to call game freak lazy, but it must be phrased well since it comes off as dismissive if badly phrased. This guy who whipped up a trailer is working by himself and has orders of magnitude of lesser resources is being unfairly pitted against a billion/million dollar co-orportion. I have no issue with pointing out it’s an unjust comparison, but we shouldn’t be hard on the artists who put heart and soul into it to bring their vision to reality, even if it’s just a trailer.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I personally don't like things like this. It's basically denying the official/real stuff in favor of something that'll never really happen. I recognize the effort put into it, sure, but I'll stick with the official games myself.

How is it denial? What exactly makes it denial? It’s not as if this guy would ever get the billion dollar funding to release a game. Making a derivative artwork doesn’t mean that the creator is in denial. "Hey, this is the style I thought would look better! I spent hours worth of skill into it to make it a reality! Check it out and please support me!"
"I don’t like it. You’re in denial and it won’t ever be an official game."

Doesn’t sound nice, does it?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Perhaps it would be more positive if fans did animation projects inspired by the real games, rather than as alternatives. For example, someone could do a "What if ILCA remade Black and White?" and re-create Unova in the 3D chibi style.

Isn’t that inspired by the main style though? They just changed up the aspects they thought would be more suited to their vision. Can something only be positive as long as it doesn’t threaten a billion dollar corporation's game art language?

Artists should be allowed to create whatever they want without being branded as negative, unless it is dismissive of people's rights or something like that. They shouldn’t be bound by the vision another studio chose for the games.

 

[Ambrose7]

How is it denial? What exactly makes it denial? It’s not as if this guy would ever get the billion dollar funding to release a game. Making a derivative artwork doesn’t mean that the creator is in denial. "Hey, this is the style I thought would look better! I spent hours worth of skill into it to make it a reality! Check it out and please support me!"
"I don’t like it. You’re in denial and it won’t ever be an official game."

Doesn’t sound nice, does it?

Exactly. The artist here is just doing what they want cuz they are passionate about it. They shouldn't be blamed if fans start comparing without any proper basis.

 

[Lanstar]

I bet that that if Harvest moon fans had the same hubris as Pokemon fans about their games, Stardew Valley wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is now, and would never take off at all.

"HOW DISRESPECTFUL TO MAKE A FAKE IMITATION OF THE REAL THING! IT'S JUST ANOTHER RIPOFF!"

What makes Pokemon even scarier is that the branding is so iconic, there's this tribalism that will always make any alternate games and designs look like "Cheap imitations" in comparison, no matter how well they are designed. It really makes the franchise a great monopoly over a very strong idea of anime-style capsule creatures that's almost impossible to break.

This super cool dolphin design not in Pokemon: "Hmmph! It's fake as all get out!"
This strange simplified dragon slime: "All hail lord Goomy!"

It's as though the only way to challenge Game Freak's monopoly over the concept really is with Pokemon titles made by fans themselves, due to the "ITZ POKEMONZ" mentality of so much of the fanbase. It you disagree, try to imagine what an alternative version of Pokemon would have to do in order to make you break from pokemon to being more a fan of that new franchise instead... It sounds quite difficult.

 

[RK9]

Honestly, I don't know how GameFreak did it but they made the game hype even more dead than with SwSh. SwSh's news was already dead as hell cause there barely was anything but now we don't know anything for months.

In a period where everyone is more divided against them than ever, they decide to do things even worse. Their PR team seriously needs to step it up.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Honestly, I don't know how GameFreak did it but they made the game hype even more dead than with SwSh. SwSh's news was already dead as hell cause there barely was anything but now we don't know anything for months.

In a period where everyone is more divided against them than ever, they decide to do things even worse. Their PR team seriously needs to step it up.

I'm still not sure how this is any different from how they typically handle pre-release seasons for new games. You could still say that it isn't a good way to create hype for the games, but announcing new titles only to not have any news for months is pretty standard for Pokemon games. That's why it's hard for me to see this as something worse than usual or something for the PR team to work on when they've done this before and it doesn't really affect the hype for most games either. Once we get news more consistently, there's usually a good amount of excitement each month too and I imagine that will be the case for both BD/SP and Legends Arceus.

That being said, I am hoping that we'll get something soon, if only because getting the sudden release dates a couple of weeks ago made me more eager to see new trailers for both sets of games. I assume that we'll get something before Nintendo's E3 presentation on Tuesday, if only because I think they've usually done that before with other Pokemon games, but there might be something on Tuesday as well.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm still not sure how this is any different from how they typically handle pre-release seasons for new games. You could still say that it isn't a good way to create hype for the games, but announcing new titles only to not have any news for months is pretty standard for Pokemon games. That's why it's hard for me to see this as something worse than usual or something for the PR team to work on when they've done this before and it doesn't really affect the hype for most games either. Once we get news more consistently, there's usually a good amount of excitement each month too and I imagine that will be the case for both BD/SP and Legends Arceus.

That being said, I am hoping that we'll get something soon, if only because getting the sudden release dates a couple of weeks ago made me more eager to see new trailers for both sets of games. I assume that we'll get something before Nintendo's E3 presentation on Tuesday, if only because I think they've usually done that before with other Pokemon games, but there might be something on Tuesday as well.

It's now Friday. It's clear that we're getting nothing until E3. I believe that the games would have been revealed at E3 if this year wasn't the franchise's 25th anniversary.

 

[nickdt]

It's now Friday. It's clear that we're getting nothing until E3. I believe that the games would have been revealed at E3 if this year wasn't the franchise's 25th anniversary.

Basically this.

 

[Hidden Mew]

It's now Friday. It's clear that we're getting nothing until E3. I believe that the games would have been revealed at E3 if this year wasn't the franchise's 25th anniversary.

It's possible that some news could still drop on Monday, but saving it for Nintendo's E3 event does seem more likely at this point. I'm not so sure that they would have saved announcing these games for E3 if it wasn't for the franchise's 25th anniversary though. This is mainly because I don't think that they've announced new main series games at E3 before and they typically prefer to have events devoted to Pokemon specifically, such as Pokemon Directs instead of the general Nintendo Directs, to announce new main series games. I guess it's kind of a moot point to argue over, but I don't think that the franchise's 25th anniversary was the only reason why they announced these games in February instead of waiting until E3. Announcing games and then having little to no news for months isn't something that just started with these games or when they first started to celebrate Pokemon Day with Sun/Moon's announcement.

 

[Puddle]

Isn’t that inspired by the main style though? They just changed up the aspects they thought would be more suited to their vision. Can something only be positive as long as it doesn’t threaten a billion dollar corporation's game art language?

Artists should be allowed to create whatever they want without being branded as negative, unless it is dismissive of people's rights or something like that. They shouldn’t be bound by the vision another studio chose for the games.

Now you mention it, MikeLaws did say that his project was inspired by BDSP, LGPE and ORAS with a touch of his own flair. I suppose what I meant was that it would be nice to see projects that celebrate Game Freak's vision rather than trying to better it.

Now that I've thought about it some more, though... I suppose it's not the artist's fault if other people use their work as a means of attacking Game Freak or ILCA's graphics. Nor is it the artist's fault if someone steals their work and uses it as a fake leak. The problem isn't that these fan projects exist; the problem is that there are parts of the fandom that love to use these projects as "evidence" to support their "modern Pokemon games are bad" agenda.

 

[Lanstar]

The problem isn't that these fan projects exist; the problem is that there are parts of the fandom that love to use these projects as "evidence" to support their "modern Pokemon games are bad" agenda.

When people create visions of a "dream game", it's their way of saying, "This is how I'd love to see a Pokemon game be made". If it impresses fans enough, of course it will engage them into comparing the fan vision of a great game to the game we're going to get. There's no escaping this - and yes, many fans who are salty about modern Pokemon games naturally will flock to support the vision. It's a social media thing no one can stop, and we'll have to get used to it.

But it is wrong for these visions to invoke people into wanting higher standards? Because no doubt there's tons of reasons why many players want higher standards in Pokemon games - and to a point that these visions start popping up. Visions are a showcase of the standards of the visionary - And the more that show up to challenge the fanbase, and the more popular they become, the more it seems like Game Freak's standards aren't high enough for the fans.

 

[Norzan]

the problem is that there are parts of the fandom that love to use these projects as "evidence" to support their "modern Pokemon games are bad" agenda.

Of course attacking Gamefreak (or any other company) personally (specially death threats) in any way is a big no-no , but criticizing their games for their shortcomings while using fan projects and other franchises as evidence that those shortcomings could be remedied is perfectly fine. You can obviously disagree, but people are still allowed to do it.

 

[swiftgallade46]

When people create visions of a "dream game", it's their way of saying, "This is how I'd love to see a Pokemon game be made". If it impresses fans enough, of course it will engage them into comparing the fan vision of a great game to the game we're going to get. There's no escaping this - and yes, many fans who are salty about modern Pokemon games naturally will flock to support the vision. It's a social media thing no one can stop, and we'll have to get used to it.

Even if it’s inescapable, that doesn’t mean no one is allowed to challenge the comparison being made as a false equivalence, either. I can “get used to it” just as much as they can “get used to” seeing comments pointing out that the two are not the same.

But it is wrong for these visions to invoke people into wanting higher standards? Because no doubt there's tons of reasons why many players want higher standards in Pokemon games - and to a point that these visions start popping up. Visions are a showcase of the standards of the visionary - And the more that show up to challenge the fanbase, and the more popular they become, the more it seems like Game Freak's standards aren't high enough for the fans.

I would challenge the word choice of “higher standards” versus “different directions”. Often times people like to point to specific and deliberate choices as “low quality” when the reality is it’s done perfectly well; it just isn’t what they wanted.

Of course attacking Gamefreak (or any other company) personally in any way is a big no-no, but criticizing their games for their shortcomings while using fan projects and other franchises as evidence that those shortcomings could be remedied is perfectly fine. You can obviously disagree, but people are still allowed to do it.

To be fair, these fan projects aren’t evidence that “shortcomings could be remedied”, as they aren’t produced in the same environment nor with the same requirements as the full game. Also, people disagreeing isn’t the same as telling others they aren’t allowed to do the same.
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And again, I’m not saying that these fan trailers aren’t well done or a neat vision for a game. Nor am I saying that GameFreak/ILCA’s games are anywhere near perfect or immune to critique. My point is, there’s nothing wrong with the acknowledgement that pointing to these trailers as standards for a full game is a false equivalence.

You can say “I wish GameFreak/ILCA would take their games in this direction” and I’d often agree.

You can also say “GameFreak/ILCA are bad developers/develop bad games because even a fan can create something better” and in that case you shouldn’t be surprised when people tell you why that’s flawed logic.

 

[Lanstar]

Even if it’s inescapable, that doesn’t mean no one is allowed to challenge the comparison being made as a false equivalence, either. I can “get used to it” just as much as they can “get used to” seeing comments pointing out that the two are not the same.

I'm not sure that many people are actually saying a vision is the same as a full game as much as saying, "I'd rather have a pokemon game use elements from the vision than what game freak chose." People trying to convey a lot of this "false equivalance" that few fans actually think as the same people who just like the vision are simply Straw Manning to put down the vision in itself.

I really wish people would stop doing that as well.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I'm not sure that many people are actually saying a vision is the same as a full game as much as saying, "I'd rather have a pokemon game use elements from the vision than what game freak chose." People trying to convey a lot of this "false equivalance" that few fans actually think as the same people who just like the vision are simply Straw Manning to put down the vision in itself.

I really wish people would stop doing that as well.

I have seen it quite a lot actually. Definitely enough that calling it a “Straw Man” is false. Again, if you read my post I’m not trying to find a sneaky way to insult this person’s work. I actually enjoy it.