Pokémon Evolution/Capture/Release Thread

[Hellion]

I kind of agree...the whole personality thing is a bit overplayed lately here on the forum, and to be honest even without an easy-to-pinpoint personality I think a viewer can like a Pokemon quite a bit based on their species alone...I know that's the case for me with Sewaddle and Dwebble, and Palpitoad or Roggenrola if either one of them join.

So, I'm all for either Palpitoad or Roggenrola joining or, hell, both. Bring it on I say.

Meh, if you like hollow shells that have the personality of cabbage, that's cool. I want to feel invested in characters, I want to root for them and be excited when they come on screen. Different strokes.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

I think BW will be a shorter saga, like Kanto. Because of this, there is no time for creating distinguished personalities for all pokemon, and because of that writers want to fill their time with new captures and focus on some popular pokemon (Mijumaru, Pikachu, etc...)

 

[Hellion]

I think BW will be a shorter saga, like Kanto. Because of this, there is no time for creating distinguished personalities for all pokemon, and because of that writers want to fill their time with new captures and focus on some popular pokemon (Mijumaru, Pikachu, etc...)

Which is part of what made Kanto so crap...

 

[Ampharos King]

You do know there's a difference between rushing through development and not developing at all, right? A little bit more interactions with Ash, or with the other pokémon on Ash's team, a little 1-on-1 training with Ash. More personality, establishing a storyline, and maybe an actual battle.

The time will come when Scraggy will be able to compete on that higher level, but should we expect the writers to automatically grant a pokemon who cannot even inflict damage at all a decent level of strength and a few new moves? Is it right to give Scraggy that power only a few episodes after it was revealed to have such a handicap?

Scraggy stands out because he loves to battle and to show off, but at the same time, he lacks the strength to do so properly. This distinction makes Scraggy more unique than a simple Buizel clone, thriving to battle and having the power to back it up. At the same time, it gives Ash and Scraggy a goal to aim for. It provides Ash a reason to keep using Scraggy and for the writers to remember Scraggy's existence.

It may be straightforward, but Scraggy has a storyline. Scraggy is a pokemon who wants to become stronger and to battle but he cannot battle. To get Scraggy to that level will require much more training than simply learning how to control a move (Ash's Gible or Snorunt). As a baby pokemon, Scraggy has to get adjusted to battling first-hand. The writers seem very adamant in wanting to take things slowly with Scraggy; to show that not all of Ash's pokemon don't automatically have that level of strength or finesse prior to his training them.

A sparring match with Kibago isn't really training. There's no progress made, no problems established that need solving, just nothing. It's not developement.

When we look back into past series when Ash did nearly the same thing for other pokemon, it was not like those pokemon acquired that level of success and mastery mere minutes after the training proceeded. Snorunt simply needed to learn how to control its Ice Beam properly, and it only did so after it evolved into a Glalie. Before this was able to happen, Ash and Snorunt trained for a good 6-7 episodes. Ash didn't do anything more here than what he had done with Scraggy.

Meanwhile, we knew how long it took for Ash's Gible to master his Draco Meteor. The progress was so slow to the point that when Gible happened to master the move in a Sinnoh League match, we wondered if the writers had the rest of the training take place off-screen. The writers tried to keep things fresh with Gible, but Ash and Gible's slow training took up a fair portion of many episodes. By the time we reached the Grand Festival, Gible only improved splitting the Draco Meteor into halves.

In Snorunt's case, the level of mastery and development came only seconds after it evolved. In Gible's case, although the pokemon's attack did cause some tension between him and Piplup, would you call that development or interaction? Gible did have a brief battle with Dawn's Togekiss the episode after she got it, but even at that time, it was because Gible could not master DM that the battle ended. Gible fought evenly on Togekiss's level prior to using the move that it could not control.

The difference between Snorunt/Gible and Scraggy is that the former two pokemon could still battle with other moves. Furthermore, it was only one of their attacks that they had difficulty with. On the other hand, Scraggy cannot battle at all and the two moves that he can use are not effective against any opponent. This is why this progress has to be taken very slowly. The writers wanted to approach training a pokemon with no power or skill whatsoever, as opposed to a pokemon who cannot control an attack yet is still competent in battle.

At this point, Scraggy's situation may appear to be hopeless, but by all means, it does not mean that he hasn't interacted with any of the pokemon after the debut episode. Scraggy's greatest highlight is the contrast between his stubborn personality and his actual weak body. In BW028, when Emolga used Attract to steal apples from Ash's pokemon, Scraggy was the one who attempted to attack Pikachu numerous times with Headbutt but failed to damage the pokemon. Meanwhile, the other enraged pokemon-- Sewaddle, Tepig, and Oshawott-- still caused damage to Pikachu. Scraggy wanted to attack Pikachu with his full power, but that full power did not do anything. The writers are reminding us here that Scraggy is impaired here.

In BW032, Scraggy's stubborn temperament caused him to confront a wild Cottonee. This interaction was at the point that Scraggy refused to go back into its ball after the Cottonee completed its training.

Are we to imply that just because Ash/Snorunt interacted with Morrison, or Gible's relationship with Piplup, that these two pokemon "developed" from their training? From past experience, it should be expected that this training will take a long time. Scraggy may appear to be a hindrance to the other pokemon developing due to the nature of the struggles in which it must overcome.

 

[Hellion]

The time will come when Scraggy will be able to compete on that higher level, but should we expect the writers to automatically grant a pokemon who cannot even inflict damage at all a decent level of strength and a few new moves?

Oh lord, this is the Iris argument all over again. Again, there's a middle road between doing nothing until far down the road where suddenly you make Zuruggu stronger, and doing everything right now. That Zuruggu getting stronger'll happen much later is something we all agree on, but that doesn't mean that the writers shouldn't show him making small progress, focus an episode on him, maybe delve more into his interactions with Satoshi. I agree the writers are taking things slowly with Zuruggu and in theory, that's great, except right now, slowly looks a whole lot like nothing at all.

To me, Zuruggu is, with Tsutarja, the most interesting pokémon on Satoshi's team right now, but they are both really underused right now, both in battle, as personalities on the show, as comedy, as vectors of developpement for Satoshi, etc.

 

[Karamazov]

So, I'm all for either Palpitoad or Roggenrola joining or, hell, both. Bring it on I say.

I agree. If the anime can make Roggenrola look cute or cool, I'll gladly use it in-game.

LOL if Iris catches it and has no idea how it eats.

 

[Garren]

Really? I already think Roggenrola looks cute...

It's that "ear", actually...because it gives off the appearance of a cute little eye, oddly enough. One of my favorite "less is more" designs I think.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

If one of them will be captured, I would prefer Roggenrola to Palpitoad.

Which is part of what made Kanto so crap...

Unfortunately you're right. This will also explains the reason for Touko's replacement by Iris and writers' don't giving her enough screentime...

 

[Sweet Veil]

Right... so how is adding one more pokémon to Ash's roster gonna help that situation again? Oh wait, it really won't.

But, still you have to remember. They can't spend eps upon eps focusing on Pokemon training and training and stuff. They have to advertise effectively and there are many different elements.

I never said anything about adding Dangoro or Gamagaru to Satoshi-Tachi.

A sparring match with Kibago isn't really training. There's no progress made, no problems established that need solving, just nothing. It's not developpement.

A Practice Battle *is* training. That goes without saying. Zuruggu has to battle wild and weak Pokemon because he's just not strong enough. Satoshi isn't dumb enough to throw his weak Zuruggu up against trainer Pokemon, the way he did when he threw his newborn Phanpy up against a Delibird and it did horribly.

They should.I'm expecting a writer to make his characters relelvant to the narrative and give them personality, which by the way is th barest minimum any writer should do. It's not expecting too much, I'm expecting basic storytelling skills from them.

Three main characters. If they all have 6 Pokemon together that's 18 Pokemon, it's a bit weird to even think each one is gonna get a unique and big personality. Currently all of them have 12 combined. Not everyone is gonna stick out, let alone can I even think of 12 different personalities that differentiate themselves from each other by a lot and as well as the previous Pokemon personalities before BW.

Not nearly as much as they should, not nearly as much as they need to be in order to really be developped.

She seems to have a maxed out move set already, and if your looking for more out of her character then the calm, cool, and collected personality. Just wait for the next Emonga episode or the episode where we might find out why she left her trainer. But, I honestly don't know what you want from Zuruggu? A weak Pokemon can't handle trainer battles. Nor do I think he could even do the type of training Mijumaru did in his past episode without his Hatochi.

You know what? This is not even worth it.

You know what?　You don't have to act like that you know. I tried to have a friendly mature young adult discussion with you. But, when you do things like that, you come off as being bitter rude. I understand you may be frustrated about answering my question and the discussion, but that doesn't excuse you making comments like that regardless.

 

[Iteru]

If you guys think that a comment is rude enough to be termed under flaiming and/or baiting, than report it. Please don't resort to insulting them back.

 

[Hellion]

They can't spend eps upon eps focusing on Pokemon training and training and stuff.

Urgh... I don't want training all the time; I've never said that. Again, there's a middle way. There's time for personality, time for interactions, time for a storyline, time for pathos, but right now, they're not doding any of that with the immense majority of Ash's team and underusing them, in no small part because there is too many pokémon on Ash's team.

Satoshi isn't dumb enough to throw his weak Zuruggu up against trainer Pokemon

Actually, the movie manga says he is. Why? Because it's played for laughs. Not everything has to be serious all the time. There's time for loads of other aspects of pokémon than battle, but right now, the writers aren't using those anywhere near as much as they should, Mijumaru not withstanding.

Three main characters. If they all have 6 Pokemon together that's 18 Pokemon

Neither Iris nor Dento are doing anything that requires them to have more than 3 pokémon.

Not everyone is gonna stick out

They should. Every single show out there does it, give different personalities to different characters, some of them with even more characters on the main cast as pokémon. Why should Pokémon mysteriously be exempt from this really basic rule of storytelling?

You don't have to act like that you know.

Actually, in that case, I really really did. The writers have spent the last 14 years telling us that pokémon are more than animals and not just battling tools. They've driven that point through our heads like a railroad spike. You missed it, hence it's not worth me trying to get into a lenghty discussion about how wrong your statement was. You think of pokémon not as characters in their own right, but as souless battling machines, and that's cool, but that's not what the show's about.

 

[Karamazov]

I hope Cilan's Pansage evolves, I really like Simisage.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Actually, the movie manga says he is. Why? Because it's played for laughs. Not everything has to be serious all the time. There's time for loads of other aspects of pokémon than battle, but right now, the writers aren't using those anywhere near as much as they should, Mijumaru not withstanding.

The writers are gonna write what they think is right and do things at the pace at which they think it would be best. The writers in my opinion have shown some nice aspects of the lot of the Pokemon quite a bit. But, I don't think anyone can judge whether or not they're using them to there fullest. Especially when all in all money stands above plots in Pokemon. If the writers want Mijumaru to show off his cuteness and be a huge money toy gauntlet they will, so they are using it to it's fullest, Hatooboh may not be as marketable so the writers are using her to her definition of the fullest.

Neither Iris nor Dento are doing anything that requires them to have more than 3 pokémon.

"If they all..."

They should. Every single show out there does it, give different personalities to different characters, some of them with even more characters on the main cast as pokémon. Why should Pokémon mysteriously be exempt from this really basic rule of storytelling?

I never said otherwise that Pokemon should be exempt. I just find it a bit strange you expect huge and different and interesting personalities out of all the Pokemon. Pikachu, Pokabu, Mijumaru, Tsutarja, Kurumayu, Hatooboh, Zuruggu, Doryuuzu, Kibago, Emonga, Yanappu, and Ishizumai can't all have interesting and different personalities from each other that are different from previous Pokemon as well as the rest of the Pokemon in Satoshi-Tachi.

Actually, in that case, I really really did. The writers have spent the last 14 years telling us that pokémon are more than animals and not just battling tools. They've driven that point through our heads like a railroad spike. You missed it, hence it's not worth me trying to get into a lenghty discussion about how wrong your statement was. You think of pokémon not as characters in their own right, but as souless battling machines, and that's cool, but that's not what the show's about.

How wrong my statement was? That's your opinion.

What the hell? So now your deciding that for me? I never said, I see Pokemon as "soulless battling tools". I said I don't see why you expect these big huge personalities that differentiate themselves from the other Pokemon as well as the previous Pokemon, in all 12 of Satoshi-Tachi's Pokemon. I doubt they could even create 12 different interesting personalities.

I'm also curious about what you're gonna think of Satoshi-Tachi's Pokemon if a lot of them evovle and possibly lose there attitudes they have now.

 

[Hellion]

I don't think anyone can judge whether or not they're using them to there fullest.

Can. Did. Case closed.

I just find it a bit strange you expect huge and different and interesting personalities out of all the Pokemon.

They're characters. Every show has characters and gives them different and interesting personalities, cause that's really the single most basic rule of storytelling and characterization. Characterization, you don't have it, you don't have anything.

can't all have interesting and different personalities

Yes they can.

How wrong my statement was? That's your opinion.

No, that pokémon are more than animals and just battling machines, but friends to the characters has pretty much been the MO around the anime for 15 years.

I never said, I see Pokemon as "soulless battling tools".

So you expect some pokémon to have no personality, no storyline. Which would make them soulless, and if they're not there to add comedy, personality, interactions to the main cast, then they're just there to fire attack at Ash's command, ergo soulless battling machines.

I said I don't see why you expect these big huge personalities that differentiate themselves from the other Pokemon as well as the previous Pokemon, in all 12 of Satoshi-Tachi's Pokemon.

I expect it, because

A- Again, that's pretty much the basic rule of storytelling.
B- Because the writers of POkémon have shown to be able to do it in the past
C- Cause every other show out there is mysteriously managing to showcase over 12 different personalities on a regular basis with their combined main cast and recurring characters.

I doubt they could even create 12 different interesting personalities.

See above. But I can see you're happy with pokémon not showing anything and just being soulless battling machine. That's cool if you are, I'm not judging you; I'm just saying it's a detriment to the quality of the saga and it's better when you give them personalities and storylines.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Can. Did. Case closed.

Kodomo Ne.

They're characters. Every show has characters and gives them different and interesting personalities, cause that's really the single most basic rule of storytelling and characterization. Characterization, you don't have it, you don't have anything.

Hellion. The writers have to deal with 12 different pokes probably have to deal with more then that, and maybe more then that after evolution. You really can't expect all 12 to be different and unique without some of them clashing as well as being different from the previous Pokemon. If I took 12 of my clash mates, not everyone of them will have a different personality that pulls you in.

Yes they can.

So, your saying all the Pokes owned by Satoshi-Tachi will have different personalities from the previous Pokemon that are all unique and interesting? Was Torterra's personality interesting? What about Fukamaru's empty headness and meekness? How about Staraptor? Gliscor was still a crybaby after evolution, and there have been pass pokemon that have been crybabies like Torkoal, Zenigame, and Togepi.

No, that pokémon are more than animals and just battling machines, but friends to the characters has pretty much been the MO around the anime for 15 years.

????????? I never said the Pokemon were battling machines.

So you expect some pokémon to have no personality, no storyline. Which would make them soulless, and if they're not there to add comedy, personality, interactions to the main cast, then they're just there to fire attack at Ash's command, ergo soulless battling machines.

So......by your logic. Pokemon like Pokabu are "soulless"? Just because Pokabu isn't parading around like an idiot like Mijumaru does regulary and coming out of his ball every minute doesn't make him a "soulless battling machine". He's a meek, kind-hearted pig Pokemon, who puts his best foot forward and wants a nice trainer. News flash Pokabu was in a fight with the other male Pokemon thanks to Mero-Mero, sad after losing his battle, and helped and was happy after they saved Zuruggu. Can you really call him a "soulless battling machine" just because he isn't like Mijumaru?

I expect it, because

A- Again, that's pretty much the basic rule of storytelling.
B- Because the writers of POkémon have shown to be able to do it in the past
C- Cause every other show out there is mysteriously managing to showcase over 12 different personalities on a regular basis with their combined main cast and recurring characters.

B-I find it hard to believe that every Pokemon in Satoshi-Tachi has been given a personalities that stands on top and is fun and interesting and hasn't been done before. Care to provide a few examples?

C-Shows like that don't get a new set of character every season right?

See above. But I can see you're happy with pokémon not showing anything and just being soulless battling machine. That's cool if you are, I'm not judging you; I'm just saying it's a detriment to the quality of the saga and it's better when you give them personalities and storylines.

Um? What? Again just because Kurumayu, Hatooboh, and Pokabu aren't parading around and throwing fits like Zuruggu or acting all calm, quiet, and cool like Tsutarja doesn't make them "soulless battling machine.

 

[Karamazov]

Maybe Venipede will come back in a later episode and let Ash catch it?

 

[Eitarou]

Enough arguing, you two. Let's get back to the matter at hand....

I hope Cilan's Pansage evolves, I really like Simisage.

After seeing how big Simisear was...I doubt it...

 

[Sweet Veil]

Enough arguing, you two. Let's get back to the matter at hand....



After seeing how big Simisear was...I doubt it...

What?

Matter at hand? XD

 

[Karamazov]

After seeing how big Simisear was...I doubt it...

I see your point.

I'd like to see Dwebble evolve. Will it leave its shell and then evolve, will it have to make a new cover before it evolves?

 

[Hellion]

You really can't expect all 12 to be different and unique without some of them clashing as well as being different from the previous Pokemon.

Can. Did. Case closed.

Personalities are more than one trait. They're a combination of traits, coupled with different backstories, storylines so that you get unique characters, like you're proving here.

Gliscor was still a crybaby after evolution, and there have been pass pokemon that have been crybabies like Torkoal, Zenigame, and Togepi.

Yet, not one of them was the same. Shocker, similar traits, but different personalities. But at the very least you need a combination of traits that set a character apart. Right now, Pokabu, Hatoboh and Kurumayu lack those, because there's really nothing distinctive about the way they act and the way they interact. I don't want them to act like Mijumaru, Zuruggu and Tsutarja, but I want them to have their own equally present and focus, yet different personality traits. So far, they don't, that's why it was a bad idea to give Ash Kurumiru. That's what it's a bad idea to give him anything else at the moment, which was my point.

Rather than give tons of pokémon to Ash that won't ever be developped and stay two-dimensional, I'd rather see the writers delve into Ash's existing pokémon's personalities, storylines, developpement.

C-Shows like that don't get a new set of character every season right?

Most shows have part of their cast changed on a regular basis, and have roughly 12-20 main cast members plus recurring characters, all with different personalities.

But I can see this is going nowhere, so once again gotpika, if you're cool with some of Ash's pokémon having no personality, good on you, I'd rather have the writers show me a reason to care about them. We both have obviously different visions on this, so lets drop it.