Pokemon Journeys: Thoughts So Far

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Honestly, I think the problem with Journeys is less that Pokemon and humans aren't interacting a lot, and more that they aren't interacting enough with each other. In past sagas, bonds between Pokemon and their trainers were important, but Pokemon were often given their own agencies and were allowed to also form friendships with each other, sometimes completely independent of their trainers. Here, while there is some of that, most of the bonds between the Pokemon themselves tend to be quickly phased out: Riolu and Farfetch'd were initially advertised as being rivals and sparring partners, but the only thing to come out of that was Riolu using Farfetch'd as its personal punching back for a few seconds of training, and later this "rivalry" was abandoned to the point that we don't even know how these two Fighting-types reacted to each other's evolution; Lucario and Cinderace were presented as more or less a microcosm of Ash's friendship with Goh, emphasized by how both reached their final evolutions at the same time and fought Eternatus together, but it's been an eternity since those two have even been on the same frame, and the only time their "bash brothers" dynamic was ever utilized after the Darkest Day arc was in the episode with the fake Pikachu and the fight against Mewtwo; Yamper was the whole reason Eevee even got to bond with Chloe and become her Pokemon, but the two have not had a meaningful interaction since (in fact, Yamper has faded so far into the background I wouldn't blame anyone for forgetting he exists), actually, the fact that Eevee's entire schtick is that she mimics other Pokemon's actions because she's trying to fit in and find her place makes it especially sad that she hasn't interacted with any MC Pokemon more meaningfully, since there's a lot of potential here for interesting dynamics, like how would each Pokemon react to being imitated; Cinderace used to be a big brother figure to Sobble, but that got phased out after the latter's evolution. See the problem here? In the past, there was attention put into the Pokemon themselves playing roles in each others' arcs, such as Snivy acting as support for Tepig when the latter confronted his previous trainer, or Hawulucha being a big brother/mentor figure to Noivern, Piplup and Pikachu's friendship throughout the DP saga, Ash's Alola Team frequently playing and sparring with each other, and so on. Journeys barely has any of this stuff. And that's a huge shame.

Take Ash's current team, for example: despite being packed to the brim with unique captures with really fun and colorful personalities, the only interactions they seem to have involve split seconds of training despite the slew of opportunities for some really fun stuff that could have been the focus of episodes: I would have loved to see mother hen Dragonite fuss over stubbornly independent baby Riolu. Or perhaps Sirfetch'd butting heads with Gengar over the latter's mischievous and somewhat troublemaking nature. And we never saw how Ash's Pokemon reacted to Dracovish, who has a very unusual appearance and clearly isn't a creature that should exist. These are just a handful of examples that past sagas would have likely displayed in full, but here... they just aren't.

 

[Enzo]

The dynamics between humans and Pokémon really are not significantly different in JN than before. People and Pokémon still care about each other a lot. Bonds and friendship are still constantly emphasized and the mysterious element is still very much present. The only difference I can tell is that we don’t see enough of it on-screen with Ash’s team. And yes, this is an issue compared to past series, but I don’t think attributing it to a minor shift in lore makes much sense.

My real point in this subject is that it doesn't feels like ''Humans and Pokémon helping each others out'' anymore and more like ''Pokémon helping humans out''. Even if they aren't, they are not being shown on the place it matters the absolute most: on-screen.

What plot points we have with Ash's team besides them battling for Ash? What are the challenges and motivations with Gengar? With Dragonite? Lucario? Dracovish? Of his team we have:

• 2 Pokémon's whose entire arcs got presented and finished in a singular episode (their capture episode): Dragonite and Gengar
• 2 which had their entire plot solved in just a few episodes: Lucario and Sirfecth'd
• 1 had/has absolutely nothing going on for it besides being a gag mon that is surprisingly strong: Dracovish
• and 1 who acts OOC to the point where even his salters are getting weirded out by it:

With Goh, nearly every Pokémon he captures has the exact same purpose: fill up his list and maybe appear on the background if they are lucky enough. Cinderace and Sobble both had too little and what they got was dubious quality writing to put it in the nicest way possible and Grookey does nothing but look cute. Where's the future development here?

What I am trying to say, really, is that it seems like Pokémon in general were taken to the back and they are barely being developt like they used to. That's what I think and I'm in no way claiming this to be the absolute truth.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Ash’s team literally doesn’t have a team dynamic.

Enough said.

 

[Beary]

This series is just ass, I can’t keep defending pokemon journeys when every single time I watch an episode it just feels like the writers were given a checklist of what needed to be done and they do the bare minimum to fulfill that checklist.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Ash’s team literally doesn’t have a team dynamic.

It really does suck, because I can actually name the different roles each pokemon provided to their team in past series. They don't even have a small level of dynamic, as in, only parts of their group interact. This team just doesn't have ANY dynamic, period. I'll give an example of my favorite dynamic-the Kanto team. Sure, Pidgeot and Butterfree were kind of not there most of the time, but Butterfree still had a friendship with Pikachu and Pidgeot just had its loyalty to Ash. The rest of the team had pretty strong dynamics all around. Bulbasaur, the grumpy and no-nonsense guy paired with Squirtle, the carefree and tough guy-the two were set up as friends in Island of the Giant Pokemon. That episode also, coincidentally, set up Pikachu and Charizard's friendship. Which, interestingly enough, disappeared when Charmander evolved in Charizard and came back in the Orange Islands after Charizard began obeying Ash(though, there was a hint that Charizard still cared in Pallet Party Panic, where he saved Pikachu from falling despite having no obligation to do so and established as only attacking Team Rocket in the first place for his own reasons). Squirtle and Charizard have shown to butt heads a few times, if I remember correctly, and all four of them often butt heads over the smallest stuff as well. This actually showed in Gathering the Gang of Four, where they started arguing over the logs and ended with Pikachu shocking everyone-something he often did in Kanto. There's even interesting parallels set up in their relationships with Ash, if you pay close attention, specifically in Island of the Giant Pokemon(which is another reason why I appreciate pokemon only episodes-this one was actually my favorite as it provided the best characterizations for each character). Bulbasaur and Squirtle took time to warm up to Ash, which was why Bulbasaur was quick to assume Ash abandoned them while Squirtle merely expressed indifference. Despite this being during a time when Pikachu would rarely openly express the most emotion towards Ash in a fever-riddled state(Sparks Fly For Mangemite), he showed that Ash was really his priority-along with keeping the team together, and Charmander was right beside him. Charmander was actually the nicest of the four at the time, with his gentle nature, which changed once he evolved. Not only was there a rift in Charizard and Ash's relationship, but with Pikachu as well-as shown when Pikachu shocked Charmeleon hard enough to knock him out in The Problem with Paras. Bulbasaur also even had closure with his friendship with Squirtle in Bulbasaur...The Ambassador.

And this is honestly seriously funny because this was during a time when majority of Ash's pokemon were barely even used for gym battles.

 

[swiftgallade46]

My real point in this subject is that it doesn't feels like ''Humans and Pokémon helping each others out'' anymore and more like ''Pokémon helping humans out''. Even if they aren't, they are not being shown on the place it matters the absolute most: on-screen.

What plot points we have with Ash's team besides them battling for Ash? What are the challenges and motivations with Gengar? With Dragonite? Lucario? Dracovish? Of his team we have:

• 2 Pokémon's whose entire arcs got presented and finished in a singular episode (their capture episode): Dragonite and Gengar
• 2 which had their entire plot solved in just a few episodes: Lucario and Sirfecth'd
• 1 had/has absolutely nothing going on for it besides being a gag mon that is surprisingly strong: Dracovish
• and 1 who acts OOC to the point where even his salters are getting weirded out by it:

With Goh, nearly every Pokémon he captures has the exact same purpose: fill up his list and maybe appear on the background if they are lucky enough. Cinderace and Sobble both had too little and what they got was dubious quality writing to put it in the nicest way possible and Grookey does nothing but look cute. Where's the future development here?

What I am trying to say, really, is that it seems like Pokémon in general were taken to the back and they are barely being developt like they used to. That's what I think and I'm in no way claiming this to be the absolute truth.

I’m not sure what any of this has to do with the original topic of Humans in a Pokémon world and vice versa, though.

 

[Ashfan30]

I'll say this, its so boring. We have no actual plot, every episode has been nothing but Go catching a Pokemon while at first it was ok but it gets repeative, when was the last time any one outside of Go caught something? We have no villain arc this series like we have had in the past. Go doesn't have a paticular goal besides catching Mew which I don't want to happen. If he did maybe contests like what May or Dawn did or any thing at all for me to flipping cheer him on, seeing him easily catch Pokemon just annoys me is all. He's not a relatable character, at first I found him ok in the beginning do to the difference in his and Ash training methods but now they seem the same these days. I loved watching Pokemon, my favorite being DP and XY but it's like a chore these days, I'll poke in and wonder if any thing exciting will happen but no.

 

[J Bouken]

Oof, Journeys is getting pounded today.

That interview says a lot without really saying anything. Pokemon's always had a mixed emphasis on human characters and the Pokemon themselves, to the point where "human's in a Pokemon world" and "Pokemon in a human's world" are functionally the same, even if semantically they imply different things. The difference this time is the Pokemon aren't featuring as heavily as characters themselves, which I think is a misstep. You know it's bad when I forget Ash even has Gengar.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I've had a ton of problems with this series, though the Pokemon in this series has been a huge issue, and I've only just been truly thinking about it. Also, its not just Ash. Ash's Pokemon not only tend to fade into the background so often, but they lack the relationships Pokemon on his other teams had. I mean Lucario hasn't done anything relevant since the Darkest Day, and Gengar hasn't seen much use at all. Most it got was a little bit a couple episodes ago to keep Grookey and Eevee on track. His Pokemon have no interpersonal relations. We don't see them out of their Pokeballs often to interact amongst each other. We could have seen Gengar pulling pranks or something on Sirfetch'd or Lucario. We could get more of Dragonite being the nurturing one among the whole team. We could have seen Lucario and Sirfecth'd as rivals. None of that ever happened though. And its not just Ash. The vast majority of Goh's Pokemon are essentially background characters, which is another bad side effect of his goal. Its just not feasibly possible for the writers to have every Pokemon treated more as a main cast member, and it was just a bad call.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I’m not sure what any of this has to do with the original topic of Humans in a Pokémon world and vice versa, though.

It has everything to do with the topic.
"Pokémon in a human world", in my interpretation, is treating Pokémon like animals, their personalities and agency is highly downplayed in Journeys. Pokémon are more "used" rather than treated as characters who lend their power to humans and have their own dynamics. The agency and character dynamics of Pokémon with other Pokémon is missing. Comparing what we have got to what the directors have said is essential for the topic. It is a weird dismissal of a high effort post.

 

[swiftgallade46]

It has everything to do with the topic.
"Pokémon in a human world", in my interpretation, is treating Pokémon like animals, their personalities and agency is highly downplayed in Journeys. Pokémon are more "used" rather than treated as characters who lend their power to humans and have their own dynamics. The agency and character dynamics of Pokémon with other Pokémon is missing. Comparing what we have got to what the directors have said is essential for the topic. It is a weird dismissal of a high effort post.

I don’t agree with this assessment at all. Pokémon in JN aren’t treated as mere animals any more so than before. The bond between them and humans and the importance of treating them well is emphasized constantly.

Pokémon not interacting with other Pokémon enough doesn’t seem linked in any way to this being Pokémon in a human world or vice versa. It seems like you want to believe this narrative that the writers have the mindset of “these are Pokémon in the human world and thus Pokémon cannot interact with each other” which doesn’t make sense. Maybe I could believe it if it didn’t happen at all, but it definitely does.

I’m sorry, but too often I see things loop back to “Ash’s Pokémon don’t get enough screentime” and this really doesn’t seem to be related to that at all. Besides that, I really don’t see what others are referring to when they make statements that boil down to “Pokémon aren’t treated well in JN” or “Pokémon and people aren’t helping each other”.

It’s not a weird dismissal either. I genuinely don’t see the connection.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Pokémon in JN aren’t treated as mere animals any more so than before

I think something more accurate would be to say that the series is putting the humans first before the pokemon, which can really send mixed signals, in all honesty. That, and, they don't really feel as if they're actual characters. And characters are essential to world-building, because it can show how certain characters interact or help form the world around them. But in Journeys, what do we have? You say that this is just looping back to the issue with Ash's pokemon not getting enough screen-time and that it's unrelated...but is it, really? How are we supposed to form an emotional attachment or connection with a character who's barely on-screen, or barely has any development? We don't have any relationships to be engaged in either, hence the complaints about lack of pokemon interactions. It might not seem as if it is, but they really do correlate to each other in some way. Yes, it's true they still emphasize human and pokemon bonds, but there's a key difference here, and that the bonds being shown are between a character who actually feels like a character(namely, the humans) and a character who doesn't feel like a character(namely, the pokemon). By far the biggest offender of this is Pikachu, making his relationship with Ash feel inorganic compared to past series.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I think something more accurate would be to say that the series is putting the humans first before the pokemon, which can really send mixed signals, in all honesty. That, and, they don't really feel as if they're actual characters. And characters are essential to world-building, because it can show how certain characters interact or help form the world around them. But in Journeys, what do we have? You say that this is just looping back to the issue with Ash's pokemon not getting enough screen-time and that it's unrelated...but is it, really? How are we supposed to form an emotional attachment or connection with a character who's barely on-screen, or barely has any development? We don't have any relationships to be engaged in either, hence the complaints about lack of pokemon interactions. It might not seem as if it is, but they really do correlate to each other in some way. Yes, it's true they still emphasize human and pokemon bonds, but there's a key difference here, and that the bonds being shown are between a character who actually feels like a character(namely, the humans) and a character who doesn't feel like a character(namely, the pokemon). By far the biggest offender of this is Pikachu, making his relationship with Ash feel inorganic compared to past series.

I think the difference in what we’re saying is that you’re referring specifically to Ash’s Pokémon while I’m talking about the emphasis on Pokémon as a whole. The series seems keen on developing the lore behind Pokémon and the unique ways that people bond with them. We definitely have had some solid characterization among some of Ash and Goh’s Pokémon, however fleeting. I feel that if this mentality that “Pokémon living in the human world” was really the prevailing factor behind why we haven’t had more development than what we’ve gotten, then it would have been made drastically more apparent that Pokémon are just animals or pets this time around.

Being episodic, a lot of the development we see is for Pokémon that are not around for more than an episode or two. That’s not to say there aren’t several Pokémon who have been developed as full blown characters, but often we are looking at new and temporary ones. And I don’t blame some people for not liking that formula, but that doesn’t mean that the Pokémon aren’t there; it just means that Pokémon other than the ones in the main cast are getting the attention. But it’s still Pokémon either way.

I don’t feel that Ash’s Pokémon not getting enough screentime is a symptom of this. To me, it feels very unrelated. Again, maybe if they didn’t ever get anything, but I honestly see them as at least having enough to each be characterized with their own personalities.

Edit: Something that I’m maybe not articulating well: I don’t think that “Humans in the Pokémon world” and vice versa really dictates which one or the other should be developed or characterized more. In either scenario, both should still be characterized. To me, it’s about how they go about characterizing them that is changed. As in the method they use to do so. My interpretation (which, isn’t the only valid one, mind you) is that it’s meant to drive plots such as Zapdos, Lugia, Ninetales, Morpeko, etc.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I think the difference in what we’re saying is that you’re referring specifically to Ash’s Pokémon while I’m talking about the emphasis on Pokémon as a whole

Er...no, I'm not. I should've been more specific, but I was specifically referring to how you were saying that it's looping back to "Ash's pokemon not getting enough screen-time" when that isn't true. It is the most prominent example, yes, but not the only issue people have with this.

Being episodic, a lot of the development we see is for Pokémon that are not around for more than an episode or two. That’s not to say there aren’t several Pokémon who have been developed as full blown characters, but often we are looking at new and temporary ones. And I don’t blame some people for not liking that formula, but that doesn’t mean that the Pokémon aren’t there; it just means that Pokémon other than the ones in the main cast are getting the attention. But it’s still Pokémon either way.

Again...it isn't just Ash's pokemon. But the lack of main pokemon on the main cast is an issue. Which characters are on the main cast? And which one of those are actually given proper exploration as characters and are given regular development? I'll give you a hint-the humans. The episodic formula has nothing to do with this, actually-what is honestly stopping the director from including more well-characterized pokemon in other episodes? As it is, the pokemon here don't feel a part of the main cast...actually, which pokemon are on the main cast, anyway??? Does anyone even know??? I sure don't. Especially since they're not even treated as actual characters(again, this is important to the world-building as well-we can't be invested in a world revolving around showing off character relationships WITHOUT the characters).

 

[swiftgallade46]

Er...no, I'm not. I should've been more specific, but I was specifically referring to how you were saying that it's looping back to "Ash's pokemon not getting enough screen-time" when that isn't true. It is the most prominent example, yes, but not the only issue people have with this.

The post you originally quoted was in response to a post further up which looped back to Ash’s Pokemon. So I assumed you were continuing that conversation.

Again...it isn't just Ash's pokemon. But the lack of main pokemon on the main cast is an issue. Which characters are on the main cast? And which one of those are actually given proper exploration as characters and are given regular development? I'll give you a hint-the humans. The episodic formula has nothing to do with this, actually-what is honestly stopping the director from including more well-characterized pokemon in other episodes? As it is, the pokemon here don't feel a part of the main cast...actually, which pokemon are on the main cast, anyway??? Does anyone even know??? I sure don't. Especially since they're not even treated as actual characters(again, this is important to the world-building as well-we can't be invested in a world revolving around showing off character relationships WITHOUT the characters).

You may have missed my edit, so my apologies for not being able to articulate this as well as I could have, but what I was saying is that I don’t personally feel that this is related to the dynamic of a human or Pokémon world. Ideally, this shouldn’t be an issue in either scenario.

The reason I brought up the episodic nature of the series is that I believe that is key in understanding where the emphasis on Pokémon does lie. I’ll reiterate that the qualms of having POTD be developed more often than the main cast are fair, but I don’t agree with the assessment that no Pokémon are shown in character or bond-building scenarios at all.

 

[Craiden]

So, when I think on this series so far, I have a checklist in mind (based on what I recall/heard in interviews) and base it around these "checkpoints":

1. To show every Pokemon.

This is inconclusive to this point, though I have thought since hearing of this, that this was too ambitious, and people are keeping track of how many Pokemon have been in the series to this point, so you can draw conclusions from that if you wish, but I leave this alone for now. The world-hopping stuff also can fall under here, and that's been hit or miss too, though some of the settings have been absolutely fantastic.

2. To develop the new "main" cast, Gou, and more recently, Koharu.

This is more controversial, and more subjective, but for me, while getting some complaints regarding Gou, have found this to be fairly good to this point. I was never going to be a "huge" fan of the goal "catching all the Pokemon" and the show is proving why, however, looking back at him in episode 3, and seeing him now, it's night and day, and I can appreciate that. Koharu, on the other hand, while I do think there was something for her since the beginning, I think something happened, where they decided to expand on that, and in general...she's probably going to be among my favorite characters of the anime, so kudos to the staff here.

3. ...Giving Ash something to do.

One thing I'll praise the recent staff on before going into this: For a long while, people thought that winning a Pokemon League was the "end-all, be all" for Ash. And since...I think AG (though I had to take a break from the anime largely after this period too), I never got that. Because winning a league doesn't equate to Pokemon Master (it doesn't even equate to being the best trainer, perhaps even of said region still). So, while I have my issues with SM (from what I have seen of it) one thing I appreciate is driving this home. So, Ash is in a weird position for many, including me. On the one hand, outside of a select few episodes (moments) I have largely liked PM 2019 Ash the character. It has incorporated elements from many of the Ash iterations that came before, and it's interesting to see play out (particularly some OS stuff). As people love to complain about though...he's largely a side character (I have called him "Brock" many a time). There's nothing wrong with that, and I do wish people realized that to an extent, not to mention "vilifying" Gou for having more focus (Koharu, and the various Pokemon the series has focused on in their given episodes have largely avoided this complaint, which I appreciate). That being said, I do get a few complaints, such as the "dual protagonist" thing (though even before she became more prominent, Koharu was getting her own episodes) and wanting to see him/his Pokemon more, which is rather fair (and I think recently, the series is rectifying to some extent). I like Ash, and he's been largely good+ in this series, but I also recognize that he's been around a long while, and don't fault the writers for focusing more on the new cast, as they would need it more, in my mind.

4. To celebrate the past.

So, this is also fairly controversial, but I also think the series has done a rather good (personally I would call it great) job here. Part of what made me check the anime out again was hearing about SM 42, where the gang in an entirely different region were going to Oak's Lab, and that Brock and Misty would be there (this was around year 12 of Misty's "leave" from the series). And while I did like that episode, one thing that really..."irked" me was the lack of Ash's Pokemon shown. One thing I did appreciate from it though, was the "redone" scenes of going over some of the past events. This series has taken that a step further, not just with that aspect, but improving upon the SM 42 Oak's Lab episode, and bringing back not only companions, but various people from the past (Chuck, Drayden). I really appreciated that. And we're going to get more of that, which is also rather ambitious, but also not daunting, and quite frankly, exciting. Even if the appearances don't amount to much, it's correcting issues that past series failed to do/raised, it's connecting the world more, and it's creating alternate roads future series of Pokemon could take, which is fantastic.

I didn't go into some of the other stuff I like (Ash having the first Dracovish, and creating the OP fish move people liking memeing), but I like a good bit of what this anime has tried to do, and I will always appreciate experimentation, even if the end result isn't necessarily good. There is a lot that the staff can learn from this series, both good and bad, and that's also a good thing (to me). And for all of that, I can say rather confidently, I have largely enjoyed this series.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

this is related to the dynamic of a human or Pokémon world

To show off the pokemon world, you need the pokemon. To show off the human world, you need the pokemon. The lack of pokemon on the main cast is related to this world because it SHOWS that Tomiyasu is clear in his words that this is "pokemon in humans world" and not the other way around. Henceforth, the two are at the very least correlated. Causation, you can argue, but the change in world-building does play a hand in how the pokemon in the cast are presented. When it was "humans in pokemon world" the theme throughout OS-XY was all travelling and adventure, specifically to show the humans learning more about pokemon and bonding with them as a result. All the fillers and individual episodes in the adventure based pokemon series are based around how pokemon benefit humans and the other way around. Whilst, here, in Journeys...how are the pokemon being benefited from humans here? And honestly, the "pokemon in humans world" thing mostly looks like it's describing those types of episodes where pokemon get lost in cities and go on a ruckus because of it. Don't get me wrong, I do think that this change is actually interesting-though my first post suggested otherwise-but it was really jarring and just doesn't feel right in what is supposed to be a show about "the world of pokemon". No wonder we've mostly been in Vermillion in this series...

 

[swiftgallade46]

The lack of pokemon on the main cast is related to this world because it SHOWS that Tomiyasu is clear in his words that this is "pokemon in humans world" and not the other way around.

Does it, though? That’s what I question. Who’s to say that things wouldn’t still be exactly the same if it were still “humans in a Pokémon’s world”? Why is this the deciding factor of all things? There are still Pokémon being emphasized and Pokémon driving plots and Pokémon driving goals etc. My point is the main cast is not the be all end all in terms of Pokémon (to me). There are so many different factors with JN as opposed to how things used to be. I don’t think there’s any way to definitively say that this is why things are the way they are.

Whilst, here, in Journeys...how are the pokemon being benefited from humans here?

There are plenty of isolated examples that I’ve seen, to be sure. I’m not really in the headspace to defend them all from people who might handwave (not you), but I do strongly feel that they are present.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Who’s to say that things wouldn’t still be exactly the same if it were still “humans in a Pokémon’s world”?

Hypothetical scenarios which we have no way of verifying are not valid arguments. We have received "Humans in Pokémon world" with all the past series, and it wasn’t exactly the same. If you want an example: ask "How does [Ash's Pokémon from SM] feel about it’s [teammate]?" You'll have a definite answer for almost all of them. "How does Dracovish feel about Dragonite?" "How does Gengar feel about Dragonite?" "What’s the dynamic between Gengar and Sirfetch'd?" Absolutely nothing.

We know nothing about the motivations of these Pokémon, their thoughts, how do they feel about their surroundings and trainer apart from unconditional positivity. The entire reason main cast Pokémon are even a thing is to show us the journey (the irony) of them. Otherwise why do we even need protagonists at all when they can just to CotDs for every episode? Why do we even need a main cast of Pokémon then?

The only thing in common with these Pokémon is that they are just working together to further Ash's goal. That is something that shows me "Pokémon in a human world." These Pokémon do not bounce off each other as characters, and they are just working for the human and work with the human one on one. Same goes for Gou's Pokémon apart from a few specimens like the Galar starters and a few Pokémon who appeared in fillers

But if you want me to prove a negative, I’m afraid it isn’t possible. How are users supposed to prove hypotheticals? All we can do is look at how the previous sagas were handled, which follow "Humans in a Pokémon world".

My point is the main cast is not the be all end all in terms of Pokémon (to me).

Well, they are the Pokémon that stick around long term. We cannot see meaningful long term characterisation in Pokémon that disappear after a single episode. The previous sagas gave us both, characterisation of non-main cast Pokemon as well as good characterisation and dynamics of the main cast. But in JN the characterisation rate and dynamics of the main cast have faced an objective reduction while the development of the filler episode Pokémon and the non-main cast is on the ame level as before. We are clearly losing things as compared to the previous saga. Before, there was something for both, people like you and me, you who'll take characterisation of any Pokémon, main cast or not, and the general audience who likes to see the main cast Pokémon’s growth, ambitions and how their characters play off with one another. We have lost that in JN without gaining anything obvious.

If a restaurant used to serve Steak and Salad as a meal one year ago, and now only serves a Salad, you as a salad lover wouldn’t feel any loss, but the people who like variety and the steak would definitely lose the variety and feel that it’s an inferior substitution. Even though you are personally unaffected, it doesn’t absolve the restaurant of the criticism that they’re reducing the nutritional value of a meal.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Hypothetical scenarios which we have no way of verifying are not valid arguments

Attributing the change to the shift to “Pokémon in the humans world” is just as much a hypothetical theory. You have no way of proving this is the case, and it’s valid to also not believe the two are related.

The rest of your post is about Ash’s Pokemon and the dynamics of JN main cast Pokémon. Again, I’m not here to argue those points. Your POV is valid, but I simply am saying that I don’t attribute these issues to a shift in the Pokémon-Human world dynamic.