Psychic Types: Overestimated?

[Lord Clowncrete]

I think you have it all wrong. I think the Psychic type was overestimated because the legendary Mew and Mewtwo were psychic type. And this continued onwards in the 2nd and 3rd gen with Celebi, Jirachi and Deoxys. The type itself was powerful in gen 1 because of the Special attack and the move Psychic. I suppose it makes sense to say that the Dark type and the Steel type were added to counter Psychic, but I don't think that was the only reason nor the main reason. If anything, I think Dragon types re overestimated. But that's just a personal opinion, no offence intended.

How were Mewtwo and Mew over-estimated? Gen 1 Mewtwo was the single most dreaded poke of all times. However, now psychic types are rather under-estimated.
And no, Dragons do deserve their hype. Overloading Dragons is a very potent strategy. Its often difficult to counter Dragons if you don't pack Pokemon who can counter them.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

well, it shouldn't be forgotten that the psychics would also encounter other pokes with high Special(like Chansey). But yes, the coming of Blissey and Snorlax also played a major role, so you aren't wrong there.

Snorlax has always been in the metagame since Gen 1, so it was one of the only few counters to Psychic types. But now that Psyshock has been introduced, the tables have turned.

 

[Zeb]

Snorlax has always been in the metagame since Gen 1, so it was one of the only few counters to Psychic types.

No. In Gen I there was no Sp.Atk and Sp.Def stats, just a Special stat. Snorlax had a fairly low special, so it wasn't as good at countering Sp.Attack-ers as it has been since the Special split into Sp.Atk + Sp.Def.

That's why Clowncrete said Snorlax and Blissey, because they both have huge HP and Sp.Def with the introduction of Gen II.

Edit: Waaay too many specials in this post.

 

[GengarEatBanana]

Snorlax has always been in the metagame since Gen 1, so it was one of the only few counters to Psychic types. But now that Psyshock has been introduced, the tables have turned.

Psyshock isn't the main reason that Snorlax usage has been falling, that started quite a while ago. Snorlax usage started to decline back in Gen IV due to the fact that Snorlax was very weak to the new Fighting types of the time (Infernape, Lucario), it's Special bulk wasn't the same as what it used to be when defending against the new Special attackers, and it's lack of new toys (moves) to deal with the new Pokemon. Snorlax just didn't change, but the competitive enviroment around it did.

The fifth generation of Pokemon only furthered this transition, with even more powerful Physical attackers (Conkeldurr) and Special attackers (Reuniclus) and very little change in Snorlax to combat this. Psyshock is just another reason, albeit not really a major one.

 

[Zeb]

Psyshock isn't the main reason that Snorlax usage has been falling, that started quite a while ago. Snorlax usage started to decline back in Gen IV due to the fact that Snorlax was very weak to the new Fighting types of the time (Infernape, Lucario), it's Special bulk wasn't the same as what it used to be when defending against the new Special attackers, and it's lack of new toys (moves) to deal with the new Pokemon. Snorlax just didn't change, but the competitive enviroment around it did.

The fifth generation of Pokemon only furthered this transition, with even more powerful Physical attackers (Conkeldurr) and Special attackers (Reuniclus) and very little change in Snorlax to combat this. Psyshock is just another reason, albeit not really a major one.

I think they meant that Psyshock is the Psychic-types new tool against Snorlax, hitting its lower defence with their stereotypically high Sp.Atk; and didn't mean that Psyshock was the reason for Snorlax's usage dropping.

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

Snorlax has always been in the metagame since Gen 1, so it was one of the only few counters to Psychic types. But now that Psyshock has been introduced, the tables have turned.

What blitzle and GEB said. Snorlax had 65 special in R/B/Y and 110 spdef in G/S/C. And its not Psyshock but Snorlax's weak Stab and the coming of brutally powerful fighting types, which has changed the scenario. Actually, Psychic >> Psyshock, since Psychic can dent stuff like Gliscor and other physically defensive mons.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I thought Snorlax's special was 115 seeing as I thought each of the Kanto Pokemon's highest SpA/SpD was their original Special stat. Another thing, I thought Smogon care less about moves that cause neutral damage to threats like Gliscor, only SE moves?

 

[ShinyFlareon]

If the choice is between having one move that's super-effective against a small amount of things but generally doesn't have a lot of coverage elsewhere or a move that hits a lot of things neutrally but doesn't have much super-effective coverage, personally I'd rather use the neutral attack. It also depends on the rest of your team.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I use a balanced team with a grass type, fire type, water type, and three random types. Alakazam becomes a staple to my team up until BW, in which I only use Unova Pokemon until the third version comes along. You might as well say I've lost my marbles for making such a decision.

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

I thought Snorlax's special was 115 seeing as I thought each of the Kanto Pokemon's highest SpA/SpD was their original Special stat. Another thing, I thought Smogon care less about moves that cause neutral damage to threats like Gliscor, only SE moves?

yeah, but we are talking about Alakazam's STAB move here. I can say with experience that Psychic >> Psyshock. A large number of things in metagame invest heavily in defense.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

So is this discussion even about Psychic types anymore, or just about how to properly use Alakazam on a team?

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

So is this discussion even about Psychic types anymore, or just about how to properly use Alakazam on a team?

Well, Alakazam is the poster-boy of Psychic type's dominance. The rise and fall of psychic types coincided with Alakazam's rise and fall.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Well, Alakazam is the poster-boy of Psychic type's dominance. The rise and fall of psychic types coincided with Alakazam's rise and fall.

Right, right, I get that. We just seemed to have moved away from the whole "rise and fall of psychic types" topic and into "this is what I use on a team and why I do/don't use psychic types; if psychic types are present, this is how I use them"

 

[Lord Clowncrete]

Right, right, I get that. We just seemed to have moved away from the whole "rise and fall of psychic types" topic and into "this is what I use on a team and why I do/don't use psychic types; if psychic types are present, this is how I use them"

actually the topic is "Are psychic over-estimated?" and thus a discussion on "how they are usable and how they work in the metagame" will obviously come up..

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Not just that, I also explain the reasons how they aren't meant to be overpowered and why steel and dark weren't necessary if there was less poison types, more diversity on ghost types, faster/stronger bug types (Accelgor and Ninjask are examples), and more bug/ghost moves. All of which are done so since Gen 3.

 

[03261991V]

What's the highest damage calculation you've came up with? Mine is 209. If anyone can claim a stronger calculation, I'd like to know. I'll give you ANY Pokemon for the details. Yes, it's a contract job. The move Stored Power does not count. Thanks.

 

[Silktree]

Um, are you talking about base power of a Psychic-type move here? Then I'm confused as to how you got 209; isn't it 200 for using Shattered Psyche combined with Prismatic Laser?

 

[Morningstar]

Um, are you talking about base power of a Psychic-type move here? Then I'm confused as to how you got 209; isn't it 200 for using Shattered Psyche combined with Prismatic Laser?

I think he might be referring to another move, followed by STAB and some ability (to explain the odd 9. Move's power always being divisible by 5 means that an odd number would need STAB and something like Strong Jaw or Ironfist)

 

[Matleo]

psychic would need a own proect version move that could drain hp and maybe from special attackers.
Psychic now got a buff nerfing priority, thats something.
Psychic would need better moves and abilities to use mental powers like blocking moves of oponent.
some Mind games.
Some moves of this type should be remastered like telekinesis, kinesis(bending steel) and gravity.

Type wise is all ok in my opoinion, psychic could only resist fairy.

Psychic type pokemon can use fire and ice moves thats pryokinesis and cryokinesis.
Would be cool to get psyhci type moves with those effects.

The psychic type needs to get better tricks.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

psychic would need a own proect version move that could drain hp and maybe from special attackers

No. Protect with HP draining effect is ridiculously OP, and crippling special attackers (have you got something against them?)? It would break the metagame.