Review S14 EP42: Club Battle Finale: A Hero's Outcome!

[Enzap]

Did anyone else find it a little strange and funny that Cilan started speaking in French when Burgundy was around?

Guess he doesn't want to be outdone.

 

[Bouffalant Herdier]

It's a good thing I've known about the result of this tournament for ages and had a long time to prepare myself. I would have been furious had I watched the Japanese episode when it aired. In any case, I may have a new least favourite episode ever.

"A hero's outcome"? Then how come Iris feels like my worst enemy? WHY, of all people, did she have to win? Whilst I admit that I hate her and am likely strongly biased against her, surely her attitude during the previous 40 or so episodes was practically screaming for a Break The Haughty moment? If she got knocked out in the first round, that could have been the turning point, when she begins to become more humble and likable, but that would make too much sense. So instead, out of nowhere, Axew learns THE most powerful attack available to its line, after all that time it took to learn Dragon Rage? Did the dragon elder breed Axew to know the attack, which he didn't realize he knew until now? So, Axew's current moves are: Scratch, Dragon Rage, Outrage. Uneven, to say the least.

And of course, there's her final battle with Ash. This would have been the one time I'd been fine if Pikachu broke the laws of physics and won, despite a severe type disadvantage. This could've also been the perfect way for Ash to finally prove to Iris who the little kid is, but I guess character development is a crime these days. It's bad enough the writers decided Ash had to lose once more, but to Iris, of all the choices... are they trying to piss me off?

The stuff breaking up the action wasn't much better. Why is Bianca being such a bitch to Luke? It might not be fair, but I'm going to blame the writing for her strange personality during this arc, and not Bianca herself. At least she's given me joy in the past, unlike Iris.

Thank Arceus the arc is over, but even though it was only a small tournament, I worry the outcome has forever destroyed any enjoyment I can get out of the series.

 

[Ampharos King]

While Iris's win may have seem "cheap" to some, I still liked the battle and you have to remember that Pikachu was reset by the writers whether you like it or not. Plus, Iris did train hard with Drilbur/Excadrill before the series AND Ground-types have the advantage over Electric-types.

Pikachu is also not the most sturdy pokemon in the world. As powerful as Pikachu is when he is using Iron Tail, he is still a small pokemon and could not compete with a larger pokemon using a fast move like Drill Run. Pikachu has been knocked out from a Focus Blast after only being sent backwards by his collision with Excadrill. Focus Blast was also move that Excadrill had only learned recently.

I hope that people realize that Pikachu has lost a lot of pokemon battles against more powerful or pokemon with type advantages before, usually under two or three hits. For those who claimed that Pikachu's power had been "reset" since his Sinnoh days, Pikachu still struggled to battle against Paul's Electivire in the Sinnoh League. Aside from the fact that Pikachu had a move disadvantage against Electivire, Pikachu lost because his Iron Tail attack was overpowered by his larger counterpart's Thunderpunch. The same could very well be said about Pikachu's battle against Volkner's Luxray where a similar situation had led to Pikachu's defeat.

Going back as far as the Hoenn League, Pikachu was paired up with a trainer's Dugtrio in which he was also unable to hurt it with his Electric-type attacks. Pikachu was unable to do anything to escape the pokemon's Sand Tomb and it barely inflicted any damage in that fight. At least Ash and Pikachu were able to improvise here with the very few moves that they were not restricted with.

It's not that Pikachu's power has been reset. It's simply that the writers have given Pikachu a few moments, such as his battles with Regice and Latios, where the pokemon unjustfully won against a more powerful or skilled pokemon due to persistence and persistence alone. Pikachu simply has all of the restrictions of an unevolved Electric-type pokemon, and no matter how much training he does or how powerful he is, he does not stand a chance against certain types of opponents. Pikachu was knocked out in all of the Johto and Hoenn gym battles that he had participated in and lost at least twice in both of the regional competitions. Pikachu was in a similar situation with the Sinnoh gym battles he participated in.

Did anyone else find it a little strange and funny that Cilan started speaking in French when Burgundy was around?

Guess he doesn't want to be outdone.

The Pokemon Connoisseur profession is French-themed in of itself. Cilan has spoken French a few times without being around Burgundy.

"I guess this proves I've been training hard", or something to that effect. It was "These are the fruits of my hard training" in the subbed version.

To be fair, Iris did train with Excadrill in her youth. Iris and Excadrill spent one night trying to perfect Excadrill's Focus Blast attack, which was the move he used to defeat Pikachu. Iris's Axew spent a few episodes to master his Dragon Rage attack, while a move that may not have done much against Luke's Golett, was still an attack that she had in her back pocket.

Iris was training hard, but circumstances were indeed in her favor. Iris did a lot more on-screen training with the pokemon she had on her at the time than Cilan ever did with any of his. Iris's pokemon are all powerful in their own way, but their on-screen development had clearly fallen short. Emolga is a pokemon that is just as powerful as Ash's Snivy and has access to a bold array of attacks. If we had an additional episode where Emolga went from refusing to obey Iris to affectionally warming up to her, we could have seen the additional measures that Iris would have taken to work alongside the pokemon.

Of course, considering that Cilan's Dwebble and Stunfisk learned Rock Slide and Scald off-screen, I guess the writers wanted to resolve the Emolga issue off-screen as well.

Axew learning Outrage is a completely different matter. The attack was triggered during a moment when Axew was literally exhausted and in danger; two conditions that had rarely been met for the pokemon thus far. This was something that Iris had very little control over so some people might very well call this a foul. I wouldn't argue with you there. Unless Axew's Outrage is covered in a future episode, I believe that this was simply a cheap and ridiculous victory in the same respect that Pikachu won over a Regice with just one Volt Tackle.

 

[Karamazov]

Did anyone else find it a little strange and funny that Cilan started speaking in French when Burgundy was around?

Because French is the language of love, kyu.

And we'll neeeeeeeeeeeeever see those feathers again.

 

[matt0044]

It's times like these I wonder what the hell is wrong with the writers, especially for this series. I also wonder why we even bother to continue watching this shlock at this point.

 

[alypkm]

would someone tell me what the fuck was Cilan and Burgundy downing ?!? a Connoisseur battle !!?? awe
this show is very ridicules and childish,the problem is the anime still getting high ratings in japan despite being infamous world wide,I think the creators think that ppl still like this show,while the majority of ppl is just watching it to see the pokemon in action and not because its an interesting show,I mean the show doesn't even have a storyline !!!

 

[Feenie]

Hooray for Excadrill!!! I love Excadrill, so I'm happy he won. For some reason, I wasn't expecting him to. Don't know why. :sweatlol:

And what is up with Cilan speaking French, too!? It was annoying enough that Burgundy did it, but really? That Cilan. Always the show-off.

And when Team Rocket is shown, I always expect Pierce to appear. Why doesn't he? Oh, and a ferris wheel..... Sigh, it makes me cry....:bawl:

 

[Paulisthebest]

This.

While there's other flaws here, my main complaint is that there is no reason that justifies Ash, knowing all the Pokemon Iris has, to not have picked Palpitoad? For Pikachu - Excadrill is resistant against all of the moves it can do, for Axew the best is doing normal damage, for Emolga it has one resistance and no super effectives. Except for Excadrill, Snivy is about the same; but Palpitoad has two super effective types over Excadrill and at least equal to Snivy/Pikachu on the others (especially as Emolga doesn't know any flying type moves). It's not like he was battling someone who could surprise him with a different Pokemon. The only way Ash could have chosen worse than Pikachu would have been Roggenrola. I'm surprised Ash didn't just yell out 'aim for the horn'.

That said, both battles were at least entertaining, regardless of the other issues, Axew vs Gollet was hilarious. I'm okay with Axew learning a new move there, extreme pressure is a case where people can do things they didn't think they could, I think it's fine that the same happens with learning a new move. I also thought the Cilan/Burgundy thing was well handled. Bianca was annoying again, but didn't take up too much screen time. Pikachu spinning was good though, a slight glimmer of hope Ash will start battling like he used to, even if it wasn't a true counter shield.

Yeah, I'd say that the 3 Pokemon Ash used in this tournament were his 3 best of his Unova lineup. Hmm...I'm sure that the writers didn't want Palpitoad to be in 3 battles but if it were the games and I had to choose I'd use it in all 4 battles; it beat Scoutland, Daramuka, and Mud Shot is super effective on Pawniard and with Hydro Pump and Mud Shot it could have murdered Excadrill. Supersonic would have been a great way of messing up its coordination as well.

You're right, Ash should have realized that Emolga was used twice, Axew wasn't going to be used since Iris knows that most of Ash's Pokemon battle styles involve speed and that was something Axew couldn't beat, so Excadrill was the obvious choice. If anything they used the same strategy; save their first Pokemon for last and Ash got beat...

If anything that spinning Iron Tail was the closest "Counter Shield" but I'd say it was more of the spin move that Dawn taught Piplup and Buneary that got passed on to Aipom, Pikachu, Turtwig and others from his DP team. Even if Counter Shield had been used, I'd say it would have only worked on deflecting Focus Blast like Buizel did to Paul's Ursaring.

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

I just don't feel it's right to place the blame on characters whose actions are controlled by real people. As Tsutaja said, you guys tend to treat characters like real people and it feels a bit weird to me. Not that debating is bad...

OK, but you must understand that we're in a forum to discuss the anime itself and not the writers, and that we don't emphasize who's really pulling the characters' strings. It would be awkward if we said "The writers made Ash command Pikachu to use Thunderbolt to win the battle", instead of simply "Ash won the battle by ordering Pikachu to use Thunderbolt", or even just "Pikachu won won the match using Thunderbolt", in every post we made. To blame Iris for ruining the tournament is not the same thing as treating her like a real person. That would be like saying that she didn't actually win the Club Battle Tournament since Iris, the tournament, and everything else involved isn't real.

But I can respect you and the other user for not treating the anime as real and, I'll admit, I and others can get carried away and forget the difference. And I also agree that there is nothing wrong with a good debate. ;-)

Well, it is pretty subjective so I won't argue on that. But I still wish it was more than just 4 episodes. Like the writers really took their time to set things up and plan things out instead of taking the easy ways out, making this 10 episodes or more.

Ten episodes would have dragged it on too long. Grand Festivals and Pokemon Leagues don't even get that many episodes, so why should a minor tournament such as this get that much treatment? The Hearthome Tag Battle Tournament only got three episodes and yet that was handled exceptionally well all around; that should be proof enough that more episodes is not the (only) answer to making anything better.

This is why hate how everyone always overuses the term "rushed". They think that if we don't see everything, or whatever the case might be, then it's automatically rushed and want it to last longer. Perhaps there have been times when an event could have benefited from being longer (the Kanto GF, for instance; it could have been longer than just three measly episodes), but not all the time. Which is why I don't really think about how long any given event is, because about everything could be considered rushed in certain areas, if one looked hard enough.

Okay, I agree. They really should've took the time to develop Iris as well as Ash and Cilan (and perhaps Trip and the others) but, then again, this is the Pokemon Anime and Best Wishes at that. Real character development and good storytelling is scarce these days so this arc was no different.

Relating to the above, I agree that the CBT just needed to be written better rather than extending it to make it more enjoyable.

Even still, I do still blame the majority of the failure of the tournament on Iris. You can bet that there would be far fewer criticisms for this arc if it weren't for her... since she is the primary source of criticism for the event.

You have a point buuuuutttt Outrage seems to be a powerful move and Axew seemed to have been out of control.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Outrage seems to be a powerful move" since it is a powerful move, but Axew only lost control of itself because it became confused, and not because it hadn't fully mastered the attack. That's a natural side effect of the move, as Iris pointed out, and therefore does not negate how quickly Axew perfected the move.

Axew instead shoud have just learned a less powerful like Dragonbreath and use it to paralyze Golett and then finish it of with a Dragon Rage -and under Iris' command instead of having her stand there and watch while Axew wins the battle for her. Then that victory would have been more justified. Of course, having Axew go through more training firsthand would be even better.

You're right and the writers really could've made the battle better. You also could apply that statement to the whole saga.

Glad we agree that BW as whole -and the fault is not all on the tournament- is a subpar series. Especially in comparison to DP.

 

[matt0044]

Ten episodes would have dragged it on too long. Grand Festivals and Pokemon Leagues don't even get that many episodes, so why should a minor tournament such as this get that much treatment? The Hearthome Tag Battle Tournament only got three episodes and yet that was handled exceptionally well all around; that should be proof enough that more episodes is not the (only) answer to making anything better.

This is why hate how everyone always overuses the term "rushed". They think that if we don't see everything, or whatever the case might be, then it's automatically rushed and want it to last longer. Perhaps there have been times when an event could have benefited from being longer (the Kanto GF, for instance; it could have been longer than just three measly episodes), but not all the time. Which is why I don't really think about how long any given event is, because about everything could be considered rushed in certain areas, if one looked hard enough.

Okay, you make a good point. Time wasn't really a problem but the writing was. However, time seems to be a problem for the whole Pokemon Anime since every saga has to last from the start of a new generation to the next and in DP, the Sinnoh League proved it to be the case. And let's not forget the Orange League and the Battle Frontier. They were filler arcs to pad out the series until the next gen.

Because of this, I believe the writers have little time to plot things out or write substantial stories or plot half the time. The Club Battles may've suffered because of this.

But it's a theory of mine so don't mind it. Back on-topic...

Relating to the above, I agree that the CBT just needed to be written better rather than extending it to make it more enjoyable.

Even still, I do still blame the majority of the failure of the tournament on Iris. You can bet that there would be far fewer criticisms for this arc if it weren't for her... since she is the primary source of criticism for the event.

It's not just her. Shinneth lists many upon many flaws with the tournament and I agree with him. You might not but hey, they're opinions. We all have 'em. I mean, Iris's victory may be a major complaint but there's more where that came from according to others. Sorry, but I don't pin my complaints on one factor.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Outrage seems to be a powerful move" since it is a powerful move, but Axew only lost control of itself because it became confused, and not because it hadn't fully mastered the attack. That's a natural side effect of the move, as Iris pointed out, and therefore does not negate how quickly Axew perfected the move.

Sorry, I wasn't familiar with the move very well. And yeah, I don't like the asspull either.

Axew instead shoud have just learned a less powerful like Dragonbreath and use it to paralyze Golett and then finish it of with a Dragon Rage -and under Iris' command instead of having her stand there and watch while Axew wins the battle for her. Then that victory would have been more justified. Of course, having Axew go through more training firsthand would be even better.

You're right. It would. Why is it that you're not the head writer of this Anime?

Glad we agree that BW as whole -and the fault is not all on the tournament- is a subpar series. Especially in comparison to DP.

Yeah, it's not outright bad but man, does it leave a LOT to be desired. Considering the games their based on, the saga could've been real good but the writers just HAD to waste its potential.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

This was one of the better episodes of the Club Battle mini-arc.
At first, I almost couldn't believe what I was seeing when the battle between Ash and Dino only lasted for a few seconds but then, the episode was constantly improving. (Still, writers, you could at least have bothered to show us a bit more of that battle. After all, it's the semi-finals were talking about.)
Anyways, as I said before, the episode itself was not as bad as I expected last week. All the annoying scenes like Bianca chasing after Zorua or Stephan's name being mispronounced were luckily kept to a minimum.

Luke and Iris' battle was decent and I was a happy that despite the odds being against her, she was still able to win. What I didn't like though, was the way Iris got that last minute victory. You see, Outrage is one of the most powerful Dragon-type moves, which means Pokemon usually learn that move pretty late in their development after reaching a really high level. So, quite frankly, it doesn't make sense to me at all that Axew has already mastered it unless you concede that he is already at level 56, which sounds rather unlikely, don't you think? So, instead of wasting such a "precious" move, the writers clearly could have decided on a less powerful but still effective one. How about Dragon Claw which Axew learns at level 28?

The final battle was alright although I have to admit that I expected better of Pikachu. Given that he's Ash's first Pokemon, you would think that he has learned how to deal with Ground-type Pokemon in the meantime and increased his stamina. Now imagine someone who's not that well-informed on Pokemon is watching Ash and Iris battle. They could easily get the impression that the two of them started their journeys at the same time. It's sad that obviously Pikachu only gets the chance to shine if the situation is on a knife-edge.

And, of course, no loss without Ash's obligatory line "I'm going to become stronger". You know, Ash, this used to be a great intention when you were still a beginner but you keep repeating that line and hardly do anything to put it into practice. Get moving already and actually do some serious training instead of just talking about it!


Apart from Ash's performance, a good conclusion of this tournament.

 

[Hitomi]

Bianca was less annoying in this episode, and I'm glad she finally decided to help Luke film rather than ogle Zorua the whole time. Cilan and Burgundy's "Sommelier showdown" was enjoyable because it helped ease the disdain Burgundy had for Cilan, and by the end of the episode it seemed that she had accepted that he really was deserving of his A-class status, so they seem to be parting on better terms and developed a friendlier rivalry. (Hopefully this will set Burgundy up for a victory in their next match?) I'll even accept that Pikachu lost to Excadrill.

Now, I'm pretty good at suspending my disbelief over things that make no sense. However, I cannot and will not get over Axew learning Outrage like that. There isn't a single logical (well, logical for Pokémon) explanation for Axew suddenly learning one of the most powerful attacks on the spur of the moment without any explanation as to how a low-level Pokémon possibly learned it.

Spoiler

Why, then, could Axew not have learned Dual Chop? It's a dragon-type move, it's learned at a low level, which Axew is at, but it learned Outrage instead? My utter disbelief over Iris's bullcrap victory would have been assuaged if it had learned something that actually made sense given Axew's clearly stated low level.

This tournament had such fantastic potential for character development and good battles, but it was quite a let down. It did have its moments of humor and character interaction, but not nearly as many as it could have had.

 

[Masurao]

I still find it kind of ridiculous that this entire tournament was just used as a vehicle to get Ash, and Iris to battle seriously. I mean all they really have to do is ask the other to battle while they are taking a break during their travels or something.

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

Okay, you make a good point. Time wasn't really a problem but the writing was. However, time seems to be a problem for the whole Pokemon Anime since every saga has to last from the start of a new generation to the next and in DP, the Sinnoh League proved it to be the case. And let's not forget the Orange League and the Battle Frontier. They were filler arcs to pad out the series until the next gen.

Because of this, I believe the writers have little time to plot things out or write substantial stories or plot half the time. The Club Battles may've suffered because of this.

Yeah, I agree. I guess time can be a factor in the writing of this show, since it does exists to promote the video games, and which could change the writers' plans later down the road. Perhaps that was the case with the Kanto Grand Festival, since it was close to the next generation. Of course it's highly doubtful that it affected this tournament, but I see your point.

It's not just her. Shinneth lists many upon many flaws with the tournament and I agree with him. You might not but hey, they're opinions. We all have 'em. I mean, Iris's victory may be a major complaint but there's more where that came from according to others. Sorry, but I don't pin my complaints on one factor.

Really? Sure, I have seen other complaints, but not as much as anything regarding Iris. Complaints like the running gags are often just criticized for getting too old, too fast and then just get shrugged off, but mentioning Iris is always followed by long rants (at least in Shinneth's posts) about what what she did there, and why she did this, and why she couldn't have done that. Her semi-final match isn't even the only problem with her; criticism is also aimed at her Emolga for deciding to listen to her without an explanation as to why that's suddenly the case, and the simple fact that they just feel that her winning the whole thing was undeserved. All that has got to constitute to at least half the complaints of the fiasco, and all of which are connected to Iris.

Now, perhaps there is more to it than what I've seen. Maybe there are more complaints or some that are emphasized more than I realize. Perhaps I should look through some of them again, and more.

Either way, I'm sure most would agree that Iris was a key reason for the failure of this tournament.

You're right. It would. Why is it that you're not the head writer of this Anime?

Lol. :XD:

 

[Aestivate]

Do I even need to say it?

Get off the subject of a fellow member. There is absolutely no necessity for any thread at all to ever go off on a another person for simply sharing a point of view. Talking about another user's posts will garner you B/WT infractions, and particularly nasty comments about another user's opinions (which is what they are, and it's PERFECTLY okay to formulate them) will go directly towards F&B.

 

[c64]

Awesome some day I will watch that episode. Taiki how many episodes have you watched? I'm going to watch them all cuz I didn't watch them as a kid, so far I've seen 230^^

 

[Hellwarden]

Lets be honest, there would have been just as much bitching if Axew learned Duel Chop instead of Outrage. A Pokemon's level of training does not determine what moves they can learn in the anime, it's not the games. What Ash's Scraggy is going to learn in the next episode just proves that. All the hate just doesn't seem warranted. Plus, didn't Cilan say wayyyyyyyy back in the beginning of Black and White that Axew's potential for growth was huge? If anything, it's kinda a continuation of the story, it's alright if you don't like it, but it's not bad writing, or at least not any worse than the norm in this show.

Anyhow......I kinda hope Luke appears again. I don't think I want him to be a league challenger, cause that really would be forced, but I'd like him to appear.

 

[Moe]

Anyhow......I kinda hope Luke appears again. I don't think I want him to be a league challenger, cause that really would be forced, but I'd like him to appear.

Perhaps Luke will pick up the role that Team Rocket used to do, in being random reporters for event arcs. Perhaps N could set up a snack stand?

 

[matt0044]

Now, perhaps there is more to it than what I've seen. Maybe there are more complaints or some that are emphasized more than I realize. Perhaps I should look through some of them again, and more.

Either way, I'm sure most would agree that Iris was a key reason for the failure of this tournament.

Yes but to some like Shinneth and Dogasu, there was more than just Iris dragging down this arc. Ask them.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Bianca was less annoying in this episode, and I'm glad she finally decided to help Luke film rather than ogle Zorua the whole time. Cilan and Burgundy's "Sommelier showdown" was enjoyable because it helped ease the disdain Burgundy had for Cilan, and by the end of the episode it seemed that she had accepted that he really was deserving of his A-class status, so they seem to be parting on better terms and developed a friendlier rivalry. (Hopefully this will set Burgundy up for a victory in their next match?) I'll even accept that Pikachu lost to Excadrill.

Now, I'm pretty good at suspending my disbelief over things that make no sense. However, I cannot and will not get over Axew learning Outrage like that. There isn't a single logical (well, logical for Pokémon) explanation for Axew suddenly learning one of the most powerful attacks on the spur of the moment without any explanation as to how a low-level Pokémon possibly learned it.

Spoiler

Why, then, could Axew not have learned Dual Chop? It's a dragon-type move, it's learned at a low level, which Axew is at, but it learned Outrage instead? My utter disbelief over Iris's bullcrap victory would have been assuaged if it had learned something that actually made sense given Axew's clearly stated low level.

This tournament had such fantastic potential for character development and good battles, but it was quite a let down. It did have its moments of humor and character interaction, but not nearly as many as it could have had.

Agreed! That's exactly what I criticized in my review, too.
Now I can already see some guys coming up with the good old argument "Anime and games are not the same". Sure, that's true but it was also clearly stated in the show that Axew is still very young and at a low level. So, a leap from Dragon Rage, an attack Axew learns at level 10, to a level 56 move definitely doesn't make any sense. If it had learned, say, Dragon Claw (level 28), it would have been acceptable to some extent, but not the way it was presented in the episode.